WikiLeaks founder arrested in U.K. - Page 83

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, speaking via a choppy video feed from his virtual house arrest in London, lashed out at U.S. President Barack Obama on Wednesday for supporting freedom of speech in the Middle East while simultaneously "persecuting" his organization for leaking diplomatic cables.

On August 23 2012 17:52 leveller wrote:


Some macho guys who like their women meek and submissive and in the kitchen and not allowed to make decisions about their own bodies or take someone to court if they were the victim of a crime... I think i prefer "feminist propaganda" to be honest.

On September 27 2012 17:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:

I'm very feminist myself and the most anti-macho one can get, but I do believe certain things have gone too far in Sweden. It's not by doing some ridiculously repressive laws that can be abused by any hysterical woman who would want their partner to go to jail for rape (and that is what happened to Assange; he just was unlucky to have sex with someone clearly a bit disturbed), that you change people's mentality.

It always saddens me to see how deep into people's life / relationship / sexuality these kind of laws are going. I think that's a complete perversion of what feminism was about.

On September 27 2012 14:23 Probe1 wrote:

Source.

To be completely honest Assange has lost his "Row row Fight the Powah!" charm. Now he just looks like a hypocrit that wants to avoid criminal charges and the same open responsibility that he preaches about.

On September 27 2012 18:29 sunprince wrote:


The first-wave feminists who fought for women's suffrage and legal equality would be horrified by modern feminism. On the bright side, as the anti-male/anti-sex second wave feminists entrenched in positions of power slowly die out and are replaced by the increasingly egalitarian third wave, feminism will hopefully return to its lost roots.

On September 27 2012 17:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I'm very feminist myself and the most anti-macho one can get, but I do believe certain things have gone too far in Sweden. It's not by doing some ridiculously repressive laws that can be abused by any hysterical woman who would want their partner to go to jail for rape (and that is what happened to Assange; he just was unlucky to have sex with someone clearly a bit disturbed), that you change people's mentality.

It always saddens me to see how deep into people's life / relationship / sexuality these kind of laws are going. I think that's a complete perversion of what feminism was about.

On September 27 2012 19:35 Potatisodlaren wrote:


Could you provide some evidence and examples of these ridiculously repressive laws?

On September 27 2012 19:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Hopefully...

Although everything is not dark or monolithical in modern feminism

On September 27 2012 19:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I really like all the gender studies ans queer related movements. People like Judit Butler have my eternal admiration. But then, things get nasty when it all becomes institutional. Like everything else.

On September 27 2012 14:23 Probe1 wrote:

Source.

To be completely honest Assange has lost his "Row row Fight the Powah!" charm. Now he just looks like a hypocrit that wants to avoid criminal charges and the same open responsibility that he preaches about.

On September 27 2012 21:09 Velr wrote:
At least in Switzerland it's actually the "old" feminists that seem pretty ridiculouse seeing everything just from the womans standpoint, the younger ones seem much more reasonable.

But well... Here even some feminist groups fight for the right to prostitue yourself, even if it's pretty clear that there are basically no "happy" prostitutes and it just breeds tons of problems with woman-trade and all that shit...

On September 27 2012 20:18 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Let's think... Your condom break, your partner tells you to stop, you carry on and regarless violence has been used or not, it's a rape? That's just an example of course.

Seriously, the number of time my girlfriend said "no" not very convincingly and I insisted (without violence, of course), would all be qualified as rape since as soon as someone says no and you go for it, it's supposed to be a rape, even if it's your partner, that you are in the middle of preliminaries, and that you know very well that it's not a real "no".

On September 27 2012 21:32 Potatisodlaren wrote:


I don't think that citing the Assange case which is extremely politicized and haven't even been in court yet is evidence of widespread institutional "state feminism" or whatever you want to call it.

I don't get your second sentence where you are rambling about your personal sex life, I fail to see why that's relevant to how the Swedish justice system handles sex-related crimes. Why did you even bother responding if you aren't going to provide any evidence that deals with the justice system in Sweden?

On September 27 2012 21:32 Potatisodlaren wrote:


I don't think that citing the Assange case which is extremely politicized and haven't even been in court yet is evidence of widespread institutional "state feminism" or whatever you want to call it.

I don't get your second sentence where you are rambling about your personal sex life, I fail to see why that's relevant to how the Swedish justice system handles sex-related crimes. Why did you even bother responding if you aren't going to provide any evidence that deals with the justice system in Sweden?

"Sweden’s definition of legal rape includes the idea of ’unlawful coercion’, which involves exerting emotional pressure on someone to have sex. In other words, talking someone into bed. A man in Assange’s position of wealth and power would be particularly vulnerable to this form of ’rape’, which carries a possible four-year sentence, because it could be argued that his status allowed him to exert an inordinate level of influence.

Needless to say, I disagree with the notion that falling for a "good line" or being gullible is the same thing as being raped. Indeed, as a woman who has been raped, I am deeply offended by the suggestion that the two scenarios are in any way equivalent." Sweden’s law trivializes the brutal crime of rape and leaves nonviolent men open to unjust imprisonment."
The laws on rape and sexual violence have changed over the past two decades. Many of these laws have been progressive in some respects. But in others the changes in the law fail to provide sufficient guarantees for due process for those suspected of sexual offences. These changes have received ample criticism from Swedish legal commentators and victims of wrongful convictions, like Billy Butt.

While the conviction rate has not risen commensurate with the soaring numbers of reported rapes, Sweden has achieved the third highest per capita rape conviction rates in the Council of Europe, and the second highest in the EU after Lithuania (Council of Europe’s European Sourcebook of Crime and Criminal Statistics 2010). The number of convictions for rape in Sweden trebled between 2004 and 2005 (from 1.7 to 4.9 per 100.000 people) as a result of the broadened definition of rape in the 2005 change to the legislation.

The number of people convicted for rape per 100.000 people was around three times higher in Sweden than in England and Wales in 2006, and three times the European median.

The number of reported rapes far outpaces the number of convictions. Despite the extraordinary rise in conviction rates, Sweden was criticised in two recent reports for their reported rape vs. conviction ratio, one commissioned by the European Commission (2009) and one by Amnesty International (2008).
Amnesty International’s report condemned Sweden’s non-transparency in investigating and prosecuting reported ’rape’ cases, identified flaws in the investigation and subjectivity in the decision of whether the case should proceed or not:

"the evaluation and analysis of rape cases is largely dependent on the motivation, knowledge and attitude of the investigators."

"Amnesty International is concerned that a lack of prioritization and a lack of knowledge and training on how to interrogate witnesses and suspects, and how to secure the necessary evidence, may harm the quality of the investigation [emphasis added]."

"The assessment of the credibility of the victim and the accused, and the reasons for deciding whether to close the case or to proceed, are largely non-transparent ... Informal discussions concerning the credibility of the victim and the alleged perpetrator and whether the case will hold up in court or should be closed do not maintain the principle of due process of law

On September 28 2012 00:43 Potatisodlaren wrote:
Reading through those articles I really don't see anything wrong with what they claim to be problems in most cases. I mean "- When someone has sex with a person that is in a helpless state because of unconsciousness, sleep or being under the influence of drugs, it will be considered to fall under ’rape’." I think this is fine, in fact I think it's ridiculous that this wasn't the case prior to 2005.

I guess I'm just a person living in the Swedish "feminist culture" and such am unable to see it from an outsiders perspective but I think most of the things they criticize are actually fine and not too big of a deal, except for a few things but those aren't specific to rape but pretty much government procedure in general (the transparency complaints etc.)

On September 28 2012 01:06 D10 wrote:
Fact is, woman have lived thousands of years in society without ever coming close to this power and influence, now that they have it, most dont know what to do with it.

On one side of the coin, you have people making laws assuming woman are some precious little crystal being manipulated by man, that cant defend herself enough to make any sort of interaction with a man without being in a disadvantage.

On the other side, you see them becoming more and more influential in all realms of life, and using their new found sexual influence to be on top of her social circle, dressing as sexy as possible, having very active sex lives and etc...

So basically, they want it all, and we man pay for it.

On September 28 2012 01:25 Jusba wrote:
Poor guy who had to examine the 2 year old broken condom.
My deepest condolances.