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On August 19 2004 11:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
anyone else find it very ironic that the American guy who whined and accused that japanese guy that won the breaststroke of an illegal dolphin kick (judges ruled his kick was legal) got disqualified for an illegal turn (the American would've set a record and won the gold)
talk about your karma haha
I just watched this event. Swimmers are not allowed to do a dolphin kick in the breaststroke (like that Japanese guy got away with), but you are allowed to do it in the backstroke. The official that called the foul must have had a brain freeze or was just making a bad joke call to mess with Piersol. Anyhow, the foul was overturned and the American won the gold. 
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On August 19 2004 11:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
anyone else find it very ironic that the American guy who whined and accused that japanese guy that won the breaststroke of an illegal dolphin kick (judges ruled his kick was legal) got disqualified for an illegal turn (the American would've set a record and won the gold)
talk about your karma haha
What the Japanese guy did was illegal and Piersol made a valid claim. What Piersol did was hardly illegal and that's mostly why it was overturned and mostly why the guy who won silver said he probably wouldn't have accepted the Gold if Piersol was DQ'd.
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On August 19 2004 19:42 homoerectus_ wrote:
and the americans do have this thing about always being the best of all time. they always want someone to dethrone mark spitz (which i don't think will ever happen) while australians and other countries hold their old atheletes in high regard you guys just seem to want to put them down.
You obviously don't have a clue about America or Americans
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i obviously read the media
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Canada5062 Posts
On August 19 2004 21:45 seeyoulater wrote: Show nested quote +On August 19 2004 11:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
anyone else find it very ironic that the American guy who whined and accused that japanese guy that won the breaststroke of an illegal dolphin kick (judges ruled his kick was legal) got disqualified for an illegal turn (the American would've set a record and won the gold)
talk about your karma haha What the Japanese guy did was illegal and Piersol made a valid claim. What Piersol did was hardly illegal and that's mostly why it was overturned and mostly why the guy who won silver said he probably wouldn't have accepted the Gold if Piersol was DQ'd.
Why do you trust the officials' decision in swimming in one case, but not the other? I saw the little dolphin kick that Kitajima did in his swim. I thought it should have been called. But, then again, I am not completely familiar with the rules governing the event in IOC competition. On the other hand, the swim officials pool-side DO know the rules quite well. In fact, they know the rules better than you or I do. And they also saw the dolphin kick. From a half dozen different angles. And they addressed it. And they ultimately decided it was within the rules. It's their judgement call. I also assume the officials ultimately got the Piersol decision right. That should be the end of that.
Some of you people are incredible sour grapes. Just unbelievable. Nobody mentions the fact that Kitajima was one of the two best breast strokers in the world coming into the event. Even Hansen tacitly admits Kitajima swam one heckuva final ("I didn't swim my race. I swam his. That's exactly what he wanted me to do."). And Kitajima, being Japanese, is too humble and gracious to even defend himself in public. But, he let his swimming do all the talking - he proved his 100 wasn't a fluke by also winning the 200 - with no controversy. Give the guy some credit, instead of whining about how everyone in the world except those on your team are cheaters.
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Kitajimas last race....
was rape.
he beat the guy who came in 2nd place by a full bodys length, if not more.
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On August 20 2004 00:53 mensrea wrote: Show nested quote +On August 19 2004 21:45 seeyoulater wrote: On August 19 2004 11:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
anyone else find it very ironic that the American guy who whined and accused that japanese guy that won the breaststroke of an illegal dolphin kick (judges ruled his kick was legal) got disqualified for an illegal turn (the American would've set a record and won the gold)
talk about your karma haha What the Japanese guy did was illegal and Piersol made a valid claim. What Piersol did was hardly illegal and that's mostly why it was overturned and mostly why the guy who won silver said he probably wouldn't have accepted the Gold if Piersol was DQ'd. Why do you trust the officials' decision in swimming in one case, but not the other? I saw the little dolphin kick that Kitajima did in his swim. I thought it should have been called. But, then again, I am not completely familiar with the rules governing the event in IOC competition. On the other hand, the swim officials pool-side DO know the rules quite well. In fact, they know the rules better than you or I do. And they also saw the dolphin kick. From a half dozen different angles. And they addressed it. And they ultimately decided it was within the rules. It's their judgement call. I also assume the officials ultimately got the Piersol decision right. That should be the end of that. Some of you people are incredible sour grapes. Just unbelievable. Nobody mentions the fact that Kitajima was one of the two best breast strokers in the world coming into the event. Even Hansen tacitly admits Kitajima swam one heckuva final ("I didn't swim my race. I swam his. That's exactly what he wanted me to do."). And Kitajima, being Japanese, is too humble and gracious to even defend himself in public. But, he let his swimming do all the talking - he proved his 100 wasn't a fluke by also winning the 200 - with no controversy. Give the guy some credit, instead of whining about how everyone in the world except those on your team are cheaters.
I almost agree 100 % with your post, except for the remark on Kitajima being followed by multiple officials. Thats entirely wrong. Each lane has 2 officials watching the given lane, 1 on each end to be exact. The angle and wave turbulences make it extremely hard for the single judge to regulate what is or is not a dolphin kick, so the judges can't see all illegal movements. Infact, if all 8 medal contenders were reviewed after the race using the underwater cam, Kitajima would have ultimately been DQ'ed for his ever so slight, yet illegal, Dolphin Kick. Having that said, I still think Kitajima is was a sure gold anyway for the backstroke 100 + 200 with or without this tiny " dolphin " kick. The media seems to think that Brendan Hansen is more deserving for the gold medal simply because Kitajima used this " illegal " move. I really hate how they seem to talk down Kitajima as if he was a 2nd class athelte, because of his slight habit. Kitajima deserved his gold because he's a world class swimmer but in the future ( when they eventually start reviewing the underwater tapes from the race ) he'll need to break the habit of performing the dolphin kicks on the turn.
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On August 20 2004 00:53 mensrea wrote: Show nested quote +On August 19 2004 21:45 seeyoulater wrote: On August 19 2004 11:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
anyone else find it very ironic that the American guy who whined and accused that japanese guy that won the breaststroke of an illegal dolphin kick (judges ruled his kick was legal) got disqualified for an illegal turn (the American would've set a record and won the gold)
talk about your karma haha What the Japanese guy did was illegal and Piersol made a valid claim. What Piersol did was hardly illegal and that's mostly why it was overturned and mostly why the guy who won silver said he probably wouldn't have accepted the Gold if Piersol was DQ'd. Why do you trust the officials' decision in swimming in one case, but not the other? I saw the little dolphin kick that Kitajima did in his swim. I thought it should have been called. But, then again, I am not completely familiar with the rules governing the event in IOC competition. On the other hand, the swim officials pool-side DO know the rules quite well. In fact, they know the rules better than you or I do. And they also saw the dolphin kick. From a half dozen different angles. And they addressed it. And they ultimately decided it was within the rules. It's their judgement call. I also assume the officials ultimately got the Piersol decision right. That should be the end of that. Some of you people are incredible sour grapes. Just unbelievable. Nobody mentions the fact that Kitajima was one of the two best breast strokers in the world coming into the event. Even Hansen tacitly admits Kitajima swam one heckuva final ("I didn't swim my race. I swam his. That's exactly what he wanted me to do."). And Kitajima, being Japanese, is too humble and gracious to even defend himself in public. But, he let his swimming do all the talking - he proved his 100 wasn't a fluke by also winning the 200 - with no controversy. Give the guy some credit, instead of whining about how everyone in the world except those on your team are cheaters.
one of the few smart people here
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Valhalla18444 Posts
kitajima is mighty.. i actually enjoyed watching him swim
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Canada5062 Posts
I've read reports (Reuters, I think...) that the judges conferred afterwards about the slight kick. My understanding is that they did see something, but made the ultimate judgment call (as it is within their right to do) that it wasn't illegal.
Anyway, that's my understanding of what went down. In the end, it's pure speculation whether Kitajima's kick won the 100 for him. Given Hansen's comments, and given that Hansen swam much slower than he usually does (as he admitted), I'm more inclined to believe it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome.
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On August 20 2004 01:16 mensrea wrote:
I've read reports (Reuters, I think...) that the judges conferred afterwards about the slight kick. My understanding is that they did see something, but made the ultimate judgment call (as it is within their right to do) that it wasn't illegal.
Anyway, that's my understanding of what went down. In the end, it's pure speculation whether Kitajima's kick won the 100 for him. Given Hansen's comments, and given that Hansen swam much slower than he usually does (as he admitted), I'm more inclined to believe it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome.
Right on. Now that I flash back to watching those races, I seem to recall the AMERICAN announcers calling the game as if they were Judges. Everytime Kitajima made a slight movement with his legs on the turn, they jumped all over it claiming he was performing illegal moves and that he should be DQ'ed. The judges conferred on the ultimate decision correctly ( as u said ). I think that's why the announcers are commentating and the judges are judging. The anchors should stick to their respective jobs and not jump to conclusions before the REAL judges make there decision
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Canada5062 Posts
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He clearly cheated. I think the judges just decided to let it go because he would have won the race without the kick. No reason to get Japan angry at them all.
It was the correct decision not to DQ him. Kitajima gets a well deserved gold and a stigma.
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On August 20 2004 01:37 amat wrote:
He clearly cheated. I think the judges just decided to let it go because he would have won the race without the kick. No reason to get Japan angry at them all.
It was the correct decision not to DQ him. Kitajima gets a well deserved gold and a stigma.
Obviously it wasn't clear cheating because if it was, the judges would be forced to perform there duties as judges and make the DQ, regardless of sides. After all, these are veteran olympic judges. Wouldn't you agree ?
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They made a decision not to DQ even though there was clearly an illegal move. The judges are not forced to do anything.
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On August 20 2004 01:48 amat wrote:
They made a decision not to DQ even though there was clearly an illegal move. The judges are not forced to do anything.
My point is, the judges didn't get to see that CLEAR video from that underwater camera. They were looking top down at a horrible angle. It's very hard to differeniate the movements of illegal and non-illegal moves with all the turbulence in the water. It was clear to us, but not to them.
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MURICA15980 Posts
It would have been really BS if they DQ'd him for that though. He deserved the win.
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Then why the hostility towards the announcers for showing the truth?
I believe the USA team protested. The judges certainly saw the video and denied the protest because... [see my other post]
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On August 19 2004 20:27 SpuniasauR wrote:
"the lion of Athens" -Roy and H.G.
The brillance of that quote is sadly lost on people not living in Aus and watching Rampaging Roy Slaven and HG Nelson every night. Their loss
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On August 20 2004 02:11 Brett wrote: Show nested quote +On August 19 2004 20:27 SpuniasauR wrote:
"the lion of Athens" -Roy and H.G.
The brillance of that quote is sadly lost on people not living in Aus and watching Rampaging Roy Slaven and HG Nelson every night. Their loss
Roy and H.G > all
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EPT
