Apparently Libya decided to ban most EU citizens by not allowing them to get entry visas for the country. Only British people are still allowed to apply for Libyan visas. Officials have confirmed this information without stating a specific reason why the decision was made. Source
Maybe Gaddafi is still pissed at Switzerland for not treating his son with the godlike status he deserves (Charges against Gadaffi's son). So he decided to "punish" Europe all together. Or maybe he wants Europe to take his greatly ingenious idea more seriously. Whatever the reason is, fact is that now European travellers cannot visit Libya and are stuck with second-rate holiday destinations like the Cannaries, Hawaii, Dominican Republic (and basically the rest of the world).
You must keep in mind that Gaddafi has some visionary ideas, if they are good or bad i will not say. But they sure are visionary, if he could decide, he would organize a 2nd UN because the 1st UN dont do enough for the poor countries. I heard this in a 1 hour speak he once did in an UN gathering on youtube.
But i can understand if you didnt knew about this because all media avoided reporting about his speech *caugh we have freedom of speech caugh*
So yeah basically Gaddafi has nothing against excluding westerlings countries and if we dont loose anything, we shouldnt cry about it.
My guess why he did not exclude the UK could be that he keeps one door open to communicate with the rest of the world. Excluding westerlings countries could be one of manny steps he will take in the nearest future.
On February 16 2010 02:45 exeexe wrote: You must keep in mind that Gaddafi has some visionary ideas, if they are good or bad i will not say. But they sure are visionary, if he could decide, he would organize a 2nd UN because the 1st UN dont do enough for the poor countries. I heard this in a 1 hour speak he once did in an UN gathering on youtube.
But i can understand if you didnt knew about this because all media avoided reporting about his speech *caugh we have freedom of speech caugh*
Even after knowing this I will not change my opinion about Gaddafi. Some of the reasons are: - supporting anti-government rebels in many African regions - funding the group that conducted the Munich Massacre during Olympia 1972 - starting a war with Chad - funding various other terrorist organisations in the past - the 2 cases in the OP I've listed only the stuff that really is verifiable and missed on all the other stuff he has allegedly done... Also, I personally dislike his idealistic views.
E: edited something out because Fireflies below me might be right
Honestly my understanding of the country doesn't extend beyond playing as them in Red Alert 2, and the last time I checked that game was about as accurate as a blind fingerless pensioner. At least I can rest assured in the knowledge that should I ever want to, I can still visit there! Joy.
Maybe Gaddafi is still pissed at Switzerland for not treating his son with the godlike status he deserves ()
You do realize that Switzerland is not in the EU, right?
Don't tell me, tell Gaddafi for banning all EU citizens, except British and Lithuanian. But on his list he includes Switzerland, Cyprus and Island -.-
Switzerland is part of the Schengen Zone... the Schengen treaties basically allow you to travel from one "Schengen" Country to another without passport, visa etc.. This also means if one of the Schengen Countries bans visa for another non-Schengen country, you are not allowed to travel to any of the Schengen Countries anymore.
So that's why Europe is screwed along with us :-)
As for the reason. Ghaddafi is still mad that Switzerland imprisoned his son for a couple of hours, after he beat up two of his servants in a hotel in Geneva two years ago. After that he kidnapped two guys Swiss who happened to be in Lybia at that time- who are still held hostage. Then he started to stop Oil shipments (no one really cared)... then he asked the UN to split up Switzerland and give parts of the country to Germany, France and Italy...
And now this, it's just a stupid old guy who happens to be "president" of this country.
On February 16 2010 08:18 fight_or_flight wrote: I wonder if they have human trafficking problems with EU.
Well not everywhere but i know in southeren europe its becoming a problem to have the refugees/immigrants under decent conditions, but its not like gonna be a problem for the whole society. Its just like "what are we gonna do with these people".
Or maybe i just dont know what you mean with trafficking problem? eeh?
Maybe Gaddafi is still pissed at Switzerland for not treating his son with the godlike status he deserves ()
You do realize that Switzerland is not in the EU, right?
Don't tell me, tell Gaddafi for banning all EU citizens, except British and Lithuanian. But on his list he includes Switzerland, Cyprus and Island -.-
Switzerland is part of the Schengen Zone... the Schengen treaties basically allow you to travel from one "Schengen" Country to another without passport, visa etc.. This also means if one of the Schengen Countries bans visa for another non-Schengen country, you are not allowed to travel to any of the Schengen Countries anymore.
So that's why Europe is screwed along with us :-)
As for the reason. Ghaddafi is still mad that Switzerland imprisoned his son for a couple of hours, after he beat up two of his servants in a hotel in Geneva two years ago. After that he kidnapped two guys Swiss who happened to be in Lybia at that time- who are still held hostage. Then he started to stop Oil shipments (no one really cared)... then he asked the UN to split up Switzerland and give parts of the country to Germany, France and Italy...
And now this, it's just a stupid old guy who happens to be "president" of this country.
Pity, I really wanted to go to lybia, lol...
Then the next question arises: Why did he ban Bulgaria, Rumania and Cyprus, which are not in the Schengen Zone yet But he forgot Lithuania that is part of it...
This guy is such a badass anyway.Mad props for ranting for half an hour in front of the UN that Switzerland should be split up and issuing a serious proposal with an exact plan how to do it ^^
On February 16 2010 08:18 fight_or_flight wrote: I wonder if they have human trafficking problems with EU.
Well not everywhere but i know in southeren europe its becoming a problem to have the refugees/immigrants under decent conditions, but its not like gonna be a problem for the whole society. Its just like "what are we gonna do with these people".
Or maybe i just dont know what you mean with trafficking problem? eeh?
No, I meant more of kidnapping people and selling them as sex slaves in EU. Not sure if it is a problem or not, and if it is, I kind of doubt the government would do anything about it. And I doubt stopping visas would curb the practice.
I can't think of any other reason to ban europeans.
(The human trafficing I'm talking about is a big issue for eastern europe).
Arab countries start getting concerned about EU extremists groups like IRA and ETA that could come and try to disrupt their perfectly working totalitarian regime. This move makes perfect sense to me!
On February 16 2010 09:45 pubbanana wrote: There's an astounding lack of understanding of Libya in this thread which I will viciously attack after I finish eating this pasta with garlic sauce.
On February 16 2010 09:45 pubbanana wrote: There's an astounding lack of understanding of Libya in this thread which I will viciously attack after I finish eating this pasta with garlic sauce.
On February 16 2010 02:45 exeexe wrote: You must keep in mind that Gaddafi has some visionary ideas, if they are good or bad i will not say. But they sure are visionary, if he could decide, he would organize a 2nd UN because the 1st UN dont do enough for the poor countries. I heard this in a 1 hour speak he once did in an UN gathering on youtube.
But i can understand if you didnt knew about this because all media avoided reporting about his speech *caugh we have freedom of speech caugh*
So yeah basically Gaddafi has nothing against excluding westerlings countries and if we dont loose anything, we shouldnt cry about it.
My guess why he did not exclude the UK could be that he keeps one door open to communicate with the rest of the world. Excluding westerlings countries could be one of manny steps he will take in the nearest future.
yo Mr. "Im informed LOLOL U ALL SHEEP"
it was televised on most news networks in the US at least. and BBC.
On February 16 2010 09:45 pubbanana wrote: There's an astounding lack of understanding of Libya in this thread which I will viciously attack after I finish eating this pasta with garlic sauce.
you forgot
Either the pasta or the garlic sauce killed him!
If it's the garlic, he's problably a vampire! Grasp thee stakes and pitchforks brothers, tonight there shall be blood! Rather safe than sorry
I agree with Gaddafi that the UN should be dismantled. But not because the UN is not doing enough at our expense for third-world dictator scum like Gaddafi.
Italy and France have major economic interests in Libya, so this spat is not insignificant. I believe most of their business ventures are still operating, but obviously they're worried about the loss of investments and loss of access to Libya's oil.
Britain and Ireland aren't included because they're not full members of the Schengen agreement. As for Lithuania and Norway and E. Europe, who knows? Keep in mind that Gadhafi really is a lunatic, so not all of this makes sense.
The political move does make sense, however, and it might be working. Switzerland was already in a bit of trouble with the main EU powers and it seems like they're blaming both parties for what's going on. The difference is that they probably prefer Libya's assets to Swiss assets right about now.
On February 17 2010 08:46 Jibba wrote: The political move does make sense, however, and it might be working. Switzerland was already in a bit of trouble with the main EU powers and it seems like they're blaming both parties for what's going on. The difference is that they probably prefer Libya's assets to Swiss assets right about now.
I hope we prefer our friendly democratic neighbours over some shady (and self-righteous) dictator regardless of his "assets" any time.
fucking Schengen.. my sister is in france for just under 3 months studying. Since we want to go pick her up and spend some time with relatives in Switzerland, she had to go in person to San Francisco (that's 1,350 kilometers away) to the french consulate to get some shitty visa so she could go to switzerland for a few days after france, since total time would be greater than 3 months. Was a hell of a lot easier when they weren't all in some gay zone.
On February 16 2010 02:45 exeexe wrote: You must keep in mind that Gaddafi has some visionary ideas, if they are good or bad i will not say. But they sure are visionary, if he could decide, he would organize a 2nd UN because the 1st UN dont do enough for the poor countries. I heard this in a 1 hour speak he once did in an UN gathering on youtube.
But i can understand if you didnt knew about this because all media avoided reporting about his speech *caugh we have freedom of speech caugh*
So yeah basically Gaddafi has nothing against excluding westerlings countries and if we dont loose anything, we shouldnt cry about it.
My guess why he did not exclude the UK could be that he keeps one door open to communicate with the rest of the world. Excluding westerlings countries could be one of manny steps he will take in the nearest future.
Wtf ?
You know this guy tortures, kills, sells weapons, randomly plans to rule the whole african continent and asks other african leaders to bow to him and call him King of africa ?
On February 16 2010 09:35 dranjam wrote: Arab countries start getting concerned about EU extremists groups like IRA and ETA that could come and try to disrupt their perfectly working totalitarian regime. This move makes perfect sense to me!
You are wrong they are concerned about Polish catholic fundamentalists and there middle age ideology.
On February 18 2010 00:28 MamiyaOtaru wrote: fucking Schengen.. my sister is in france for just under 3 months studying. Since we want to go pick her up and spend some time with relatives in Switzerland, she had to go in person to San Francisco (that's 1,350 kilometers away) to the french consulate to get some shitty visa so she could go to switzerland for a few days after france, since total time would be greater than 3 months. Was a hell of a lot easier when they weren't all in some gay zone.
On February 18 2010 00:28 MamiyaOtaru wrote: fucking Schengen.. my sister is in france for just under 3 months studying. Since we want to go pick her up and spend some time with relatives in Switzerland, she had to go in person to San Francisco (that's 1,350 kilometers away) to the french consulate to get some shitty visa so she could go to switzerland for a few days after france, since total time would be greater than 3 months. Was a hell of a lot easier when they weren't all in some gay zone.
Pretty sure you had to do that because Switzerland isn't in the zone, if it was any other country it would have been fine.
Edit:wait, I'm wrong Switzerland isn't part of the EU but it is part of the Schengen agreement. I agree, the situation you described is total BS.
On February 17 2010 08:46 Jibba wrote: The political move does make sense, however, and it might be working. Switzerland was already in a bit of trouble with the main EU powers and it seems like they're blaming both parties for what's going on. The difference is that they probably prefer Libya's assets to Swiss assets right about now.
I hope we prefer our friendly democratic neighbours over some shady (and self-righteous) dictator regardless of his "assets" any time.
On February 18 2010 00:28 MamiyaOtaru wrote: fucking Schengen.. my sister is in france for just under 3 months studying. Since we want to go pick her up and spend some time with relatives in Switzerland, she had to go in person to San Francisco (that's 1,350 kilometers away) to the french consulate to get some shitty visa so she could go to switzerland for a few days after france, since total time would be greater than 3 months. Was a hell of a lot easier when they weren't all in some gay zone.
Isn't it the same with the US though?
No. It obviously depends on what country you're coming from, but while the US is difficult, the EU is near impossible. Fortress Europe is a lot worse than US border control. My Turkish friends have to submit ridiculous amounts of paperwork to enter the EU for vacation just to prove they're not moving there, including their income statements and the income statements of their relatives.
On February 18 2010 00:28 MamiyaOtaru wrote: fucking Schengen.. my sister is in france for just under 3 months studying. Since we want to go pick her up and spend some time with relatives in Switzerland, she had to go in person to San Francisco (that's 1,350 kilometers away) to the french consulate to get some shitty visa so she could go to switzerland for a few days after france, since total time would be greater than 3 months. Was a hell of a lot easier when they weren't all in some gay zone.
Isn't it the same with the US though?
No. It obviously depends on what country you're coming from, but while the US is difficult, the EU is near impossible. Fortress Europe is a lot worse than US border control. My Turkish friends have to submit ridiculous amounts of paperwork to enter the EU for vacation just to prove they're not moving there, including their income statements and the income statements of their relatives.
Well, judging by the fact, that Berlin is the City with the 3rd largest turkish population (right after istanbul and ankara), I guess the Europeans had to do something :-)
On February 18 2010 00:28 MamiyaOtaru wrote: fucking Schengen.. my sister is in france for just under 3 months studying. Since we want to go pick her up and spend some time with relatives in Switzerland, she had to go in person to San Francisco (that's 1,350 kilometers away) to the french consulate to get some shitty visa so she could go to switzerland for a few days after france, since total time would be greater than 3 months. Was a hell of a lot easier when they weren't all in some gay zone.
Isn't it the same with the US though?
No. It obviously depends on what country you're coming from, but while the US is difficult, the EU is near impossible. Fortress Europe is a lot worse than US border control. My Turkish friends have to submit ridiculous amounts of paperwork to enter the EU for vacation just to prove they're not moving there, including their income statements and the income statements of their relatives.
Well, judging by the fact, that Berlin is the City with the 3rd largest turkish population (right after istanbul and ankara), I guess the Europeans had to do something :-)
Yay for ethnicisim! I'm glad bigotry is still alive and well across the pond. It's been dying down over here over the last few decades.
The number of irregular Turkish immigrants in Germany isn't very high. A large portion of them are dual citizens and almost all have roots from the worker programs Germany instituted in the 1970s.
On February 18 2010 00:28 MamiyaOtaru wrote: fucking Schengen.. my sister is in france for just under 3 months studying. Since we want to go pick her up and spend some time with relatives in Switzerland, she had to go in person to San Francisco (that's 1,350 kilometers away) to the french consulate to get some shitty visa so she could go to switzerland for a few days after france, since total time would be greater than 3 months. Was a hell of a lot easier when they weren't all in some gay zone.
Isn't it the same with the US though?
No. It obviously depends on what country you're coming from, but while the US is difficult, the EU is near impossible. Fortress Europe is a lot worse than US border control. My Turkish friends have to submit ridiculous amounts of paperwork to enter the EU for vacation just to prove they're not moving there, including their income statements and the income statements of their relatives.
Well, judging by the fact, that Berlin is the City with the 3rd largest turkish population (right after istanbul and ankara), I guess the Europeans had to do something :-)
Yay for ethnicisim! I'm glad bigotry is still alive and well across the pond. It's been dying down over here over the last few decades.
Yeah, look at the mexican border, the US is so different! Don´t kid yourself. All rich countries control immigration. It´s not about ethnicity, it´s about wealth. Income statements are necessary for many travellers to the US, too.
On February 18 2010 00:28 MamiyaOtaru wrote: fucking Schengen.. my sister is in france for just under 3 months studying. Since we want to go pick her up and spend some time with relatives in Switzerland, she had to go in person to San Francisco (that's 1,350 kilometers away) to the french consulate to get some shitty visa so she could go to switzerland for a few days after france, since total time would be greater than 3 months. Was a hell of a lot easier when they weren't all in some gay zone.
Isn't it the same with the US though?
No. It obviously depends on what country you're coming from, but while the US is difficult, the EU is near impossible. Fortress Europe is a lot worse than US border control. My Turkish friends have to submit ridiculous amounts of paperwork to enter the EU for vacation just to prove they're not moving there, including their income statements and the income statements of their relatives.
Well, judging by the fact, that Berlin is the City with the 3rd largest turkish population (right after istanbul and ankara), I guess the Europeans had to do something :-)
Yay for ethnicisim! I'm glad bigotry is still alive and well across the pond. It's been dying down over here over the last few decades.
Yeah, look at the mexican border, the US is so different! Don´t kid yourself. All rich countries control immigration. It´s not about ethnicity, it´s about wealth. Income statements are necessary for many travellers to the US, too.
No, it is different. The US has a liberal immigration policy, jus sanguinis is not. Getting a travel visa to the US doesn't require that and there's an enormous amount of ways to enter the country, and then to gain citizenship afterwards. There's a minor stretch of the Mexican border where nationalist idiots have become vigilantes, but there's still a high flow between the border. Germany's made improvements over the past decade, but you'd still be hard pressed to find a multicultural society in the continental EU, although Sweden's policies are fairly modern. The Texas-Mexican border makes the news because the US is still the center of attention, but any researcher/academic on immigration on the planet will tell you the US system is relatively open compared to Europe.
The real joke is having to hear criticism about racism in the US, when it's handled far better than it is in most of Europe when minority populations crop up, and they do so at much lower %s than in the US. And it's not handled better because we intrinsically are that way, everyone knows it's not true. It's handled better today because we've dealt with sizable minorities for 150 years, historically in a horrific manner, whereas extremely homogeneous populations are still the norm in Europe.
Even as an American, Frankfurt is a pain in the ass to pass through and it's far worse for non-Americans, non-Japanese and non-Schengen members. Maybe you don't see the ethnicism in Europe, but it's there. It's historically made up of ethnic nation states and it's still being held on to.
On February 18 2010 08:15 Boblion wrote: Jibba i don't think you know what you are talking about i'm sorry. Since when nationality = ethnicism ? l o l
Or perhaps you don't? The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that nationalism is tied to ethnic identity. In this case, ethnicism is discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities. Things like assimilation policies tie into that.
On February 18 2010 08:15 Boblion wrote: Jibba i don't think you know what you are talking about i'm sorry. Since when nationality = ethnicism ? l o l
Or perhaps you don't? The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that nationalism is tied to ethnic identity. In this case, ethnicism is discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities. Things like assimilation policies tie into that.
Why not allowing people who don't have an ID of a country member of the EU to roam freely here is a discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities ?
This is getting interesting. I'm mean it is not like if there were black Europeans and White non European for sure.
On February 18 2010 08:15 Boblion wrote: Jibba i don't think you know what you are talking about i'm sorry. Since when nationality = ethnicism ? l o l
Or perhaps you don't? The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that nationalism is tied to ethnic identity. In this case, ethnicism is discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities. Things like assimilation policies tie into that.
Why not allowing people who don't have an ID of a country member of the EU to roam freely here is a discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities ?
First off, it's kind of dumb. Germany and a load of other countries are going to have shrinking populations within 10 years and won't have the work force to carry their economies anymore. It's discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities because you make it extremely difficult for them to enter the country and once they do, it's expected (historically forced) that they abandon their cultural traits and adopt the ones of X country. Furthermore, the accession process is already rooted in it. It's like a softer version of White Australia.
On February 18 2010 08:48 Boblion wrote: Also if you had any kind of knowledge about European countries you would know that they were already multicultural long before the US even existed.
Having a Jewish neghborhood (and then kicking them out) is not the same thing as multicultural. Multiculturalism basically came about in the 1970s, and it's not simply having other ethnicities. The millet system in the Ottoman Empire, for example, was not multicultural.
On February 18 2010 08:15 Boblion wrote: Jibba i don't think you know what you are talking about i'm sorry. Since when nationality = ethnicism ? l o l
Or perhaps you don't? The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that nationalism is tied to ethnic identity. In this case, ethnicism is discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities. Things like assimilation policies tie into that.
Why not allowing people who don't have an ID of a country member of the EU to roam freely here is a discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities ?
First off, it's kind of dumb. Germany and a load of other countries are going to have shrinking populations within 10 years and won't have the work force to carry their economies anymore.
Maybe but that's not what we were discussing.
On February 18 2010 08:55 Jibba wrote: It's discriminatory treatment of other ethnicities because you make it extremely difficult for them to enter the country and once they do,
I still don't get the ethnicity part. It will be as hard for a Caucasian or a Black to enter the EU. So what is the ethnicity for you ? The skin colour ? A different nationality ? Different language ? Different culture ? I'm kinda lost.
In my opinion nationality is like a club membership. You inherit it by your parents or you get it by following the legal procedure. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. I mean i can find you people who are French but can't even speak it properly and aren't christian or White.
On February 18 2010 08:55 Jibba wrote: it's expected (historically forced) that they abandon their cultural traits and adopt the ones of X country.
Care to elaborate ?
On February 18 2010 08:55 Jibba wrote: Furthermore, the accession process is already rooted in it. It's like a softer version of White Australia.
I don't know how the situation is in Australia but last time i checked there was a big % of Asian ( ethnicity ) Australians.
On February 18 2010 08:48 Boblion wrote: Also if you had any kind of knowledge about European countries you would know that they were already multicultural long before the US even existed.
Having a Jewish neghborhood (and then kicking them out) is not the same thing as multicultural. Multiculturalism basically came about in the 1970s, and it's not simply having other ethnicities. The millet system in the Ottoman Empire, for example, was not multicultural.
Different languages, cultures and religions within the same country aren't enough ? And no i'm not talking about jews lol.
On February 18 2010 08:07 Jibba wrote: [Getting a travel visa to the US doesn't require that and there's an enormous amount of ways to enter the country, and then to gain citizenship afterwards.
One google hit later Indians applying for visitor visas are discussing about income statements, I wonder why, if they don´t need them?!
I don´t claim that germany is multicultural or that there is no racial bigotry here, but EVERY rich country controls immigration. Immigrants are welcome as long as they are helpful to the economy. Hello, materialistic world.
On February 18 2010 08:07 Jibba wrote: [Getting a travel visa to the US doesn't require that and there's an enormous amount of ways to enter the country, and then to gain citizenship afterwards.
One google hit later Indians applying for visitor visas are discussing about income statements, I wonder why, if they don´t need them?!
I don´t claim that germany is multicultural or that there is no racial bigotry here, but EVERY rich country controls immigration. Immigrants are welcome as long as they are helpful to the economy. Hello, materialistic world.
They're asking for the income statements of that individual. They're not doing complete checks on the person's family. For students (who most of my aforementioned friends are), this is a bigger deal. With the proper student documentation, they don't have the same difficulties entering the US.
Jibba to be fair i think you are just butt hurt because Turkey can't get the EU membership and because affirmative action isn't as common in Europe than in the US.
As bad as the demographic decline of Germany will be, I would sooner see a shrunken Germany than a non-German Germany. As far as Germany should accept immigration, it ought to accept those who have proven adaptability and assimilability. This demographic does not include Turks.
On February 18 2010 09:26 Boblion wrote: Jibba to be fair i think you are just butt hurt because Turkey can't get the EU membership and because affirmative action isn't as common in Europe than in the US.
No, but I do think skin color plays a factor in their lack of membership. That's not to absolve Turks either. I saw more pure ethnocentrism against Arabs there than I ever have in the US. I'm trying to get the Americas the credit we seldom get. o.o
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.icis.com/blogs/icis-chemicals-confidential/bluedot.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Lybia_edmondsoni.jpg)
But he forgot Lithuania that is part of it...
![[image loading]](http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/planetary/solar_system/solar_family.jpg)
