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On March 01 2014 05:51 masterbreti wrote:
I'm having so much trouble after season 15 on Easy mode, It seems like a get a huge amount of deaths and my food production suffers and I cannot keep up with everything before everyone just dies.
You might be doing a few things...
-Under building houses or having poor health and happiness will cause your villagers to under procreate which can create a situation where a bunch of people die with no one to replace them. Especially dangerous if you lack housing then add a bunch and get a baby boom + an aging workforce. Then the old people die and there's no one to provide for the children.
-Inefficient work locations. As the town grows if your people are stuck marching long distances your productivity will grind to a halt and you'll die out.
-Not farming/not ramping up food production. You need to keep an eye on your food production and keep it ramping up as your population grows before your supplies start dwindling. For the most part if your food reserves aren't growing steadily early on you're under producing food.
@The screen shot above. Maybe it's just my perception, but I always found large projects to really wreck farming production while they're happening. The farmers take on tasks near the end of winter (or more rarely during the season) that take a fair bit of time, like gathering far away resources, and won't actually start farming or tending fields until they finish or abandon the task. So if it's something that takes a while the farmer might not actually start farming until mid/late spring.
I always try to start projects right at the start of winter if they'll last less than 1 winter or after early spring when the fields have been sown at least a little bit.
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On March 01 2014 06:05 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 05:51 masterbreti wrote:
I'm having so much trouble after season 15 on Easy mode, It seems like a get a huge amount of deaths and my food production suffers and I cannot keep up with everything before everyone just dies. You might be doing a few things... -Under building houses or having poor health and happiness will cause your villagers to under procreate which can create a situation where a bunch of people die with no one to replace them. Especially dangerous if you lack housing then add a bunch and get a baby boom + an aging workforce. Then the old people die and there's no one to provide for the children. -Inefficient work locations. As the town grows if your people are stuck marching long distances your productivity will grind to a halt and you'll die out. -Not farming/not ramping up food production. You need to keep an eye on your food production and keep it ramping up as your population grows before your supplies start dwindling. For the most part if your food reserves aren't growing steadily early on you're under producing food. @The screen shot above. Maybe it's just my perception, but I always found large projects to really wreck farming production while they're happening. The farmers take on tasks near the end of winter (or more rarely during the season) that take a fair bit of time, like gathering far away resources, and won't actually start farming or tending fields until they finish or abandon the task. So if it's something that takes a while the farmer might not actually start farming until mid/late spring. I always try to start projects right at the start of winter if they'll last less than 1 winter or after early spring when the fields have been sown at least a little bit.
If you mean mine, its an entire album, not just one screenshot there, check the top right corner. 
But no, there was nothing to be build, the paused buildings dont take away anything. As you can see there are only 14 builders needed, so theres not much to carry.
The locations are just too far away and inefficient, i should have assigned more farmers per field i think. But anyway, the freeze started in mid autumn already, i just didnt take the screenshot until late autumn. Also, i think it was mainly due to the bug, which reassigned workers really poor and made them run around all the time from workplace to workplace.
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I did look at the whole album! Was a good story.
Out of curiosity did you have the game running while placing and pausing buildings? You were screwed anyways from the sound of it, but I know that pausing a building doesn't stop the in progress resource deposits at those buildings so you can still end up with work being done towards paused buildings. So if you're running the simulation and you place & pause buildings it's still possible that it's creating a bunch of tasks that don't get canceled.
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On March 01 2014 06:11 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 06:05 Logo wrote:On March 01 2014 05:51 masterbreti wrote:
I'm having so much trouble after season 15 on Easy mode, It seems like a get a huge amount of deaths and my food production suffers and I cannot keep up with everything before everyone just dies. You might be doing a few things... -Under building houses or having poor health and happiness will cause your villagers to under procreate which can create a situation where a bunch of people die with no one to replace them. Especially dangerous if you lack housing then add a bunch and get a baby boom + an aging workforce. Then the old people die and there's no one to provide for the children. -Inefficient work locations. As the town grows if your people are stuck marching long distances your productivity will grind to a halt and you'll die out. -Not farming/not ramping up food production. You need to keep an eye on your food production and keep it ramping up as your population grows before your supplies start dwindling. For the most part if your food reserves aren't growing steadily early on you're under producing food. @The screen shot above. Maybe it's just my perception, but I always found large projects to really wreck farming production while they're happening. The farmers take on tasks near the end of winter (or more rarely during the season) that take a fair bit of time, like gathering far away resources, and won't actually start farming or tending fields until they finish or abandon the task. So if it's something that takes a while the farmer might not actually start farming until mid/late spring. I always try to start projects right at the start of winter if they'll last less than 1 winter or after early spring when the fields have been sown at least a little bit. If you mean mine, its an entire album, not just one screenshot there, check the top right corner. But no, there was nothing to be build, the paused buildings dont take away anything. As you can see there are only 14 builders needed, so theres not much to carry. The locations are just too far away and inefficient, i should have assigned more farmers per field i think. But anyway, the freeze started in mid autumn already, i just didnt take the screenshot until late autumn. Also, i think it was mainly due to the bug, which reassigned workers really poor and made them run around all the time from workplace to workplace.
That is not a bug. Every few minutes the game re-evaluates all workers and optimizes job assignments so limit travel time between house/workplace. What your seeing is people being reassigned while there moving to there work. Dont chance assignments as often and you will not that problem.
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On March 01 2014 05:55 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 05:54 Gorsameth wrote:On March 01 2014 05:51 masterbreti wrote:
I'm having so much trouble after season 15 on Easy mode, It seems like a get a huge amount of deaths and my food production suffers and I cannot keep up with everything before everyone just dies. What was your population at the time? It could be your growing to slow or to fast with nothing enough food production. I reach about 80-90 adults, but I've had the same happen to me with 60, and even 40. Even though not 2 seasons before I would be floating 1500-2000 in the middle of summer. The less food there is, the more people have to walk to get it, so the less they work, and it snowballs from there. I think 2k is very little for a population of 90. 5k seems more reasonable, to ensure that most barns have enough so that people get a balanced diet. If their health lowers, they output less, and you start the death spiral that way instead.
Maintaining a balanced diet is really important, as herbalists have a terrible output and it takes a lot of time to get the herb and get it to the herbalist.
I think the game considers the 4 groups to be grains, fruits, veggies and meat/nuts, and people really don't need a lot of meat.
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On March 01 2014 06:17 Logo wrote:
I did look at the whole album! Was a good story.
Out of curiosity did you have the game running while placing and pausing buildings? You were screwed anyways from the sound of it, but I know that pausing a building doesn't stop the in progress resource deposits at those buildings so you can still end up with work being done towards paused buildings. So if you're running the simulation and you place & pause buildings it's still possible that it's creating a bunch of tasks that don't get canceled.
No wasnt paused, but with 200 laborers there shouldnt really be any trouble filling the material immediately.
On March 01 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 06:11 Warri wrote:On March 01 2014 06:05 Logo wrote:On March 01 2014 05:51 masterbreti wrote:
I'm having so much trouble after season 15 on Easy mode, It seems like a get a huge amount of deaths and my food production suffers and I cannot keep up with everything before everyone just dies. You might be doing a few things... -Under building houses or having poor health and happiness will cause your villagers to under procreate which can create a situation where a bunch of people die with no one to replace them. Especially dangerous if you lack housing then add a bunch and get a baby boom + an aging workforce. Then the old people die and there's no one to provide for the children. -Inefficient work locations. As the town grows if your people are stuck marching long distances your productivity will grind to a halt and you'll die out. -Not farming/not ramping up food production. You need to keep an eye on your food production and keep it ramping up as your population grows before your supplies start dwindling. For the most part if your food reserves aren't growing steadily early on you're under producing food. @The screen shot above. Maybe it's just my perception, but I always found large projects to really wreck farming production while they're happening. The farmers take on tasks near the end of winter (or more rarely during the season) that take a fair bit of time, like gathering far away resources, and won't actually start farming or tending fields until they finish or abandon the task. So if it's something that takes a while the farmer might not actually start farming until mid/late spring. I always try to start projects right at the start of winter if they'll last less than 1 winter or after early spring when the fields have been sown at least a little bit. If you mean mine, its an entire album, not just one screenshot there, check the top right corner. But no, there was nothing to be build, the paused buildings dont take away anything. As you can see there are only 14 builders needed, so theres not much to carry. The locations are just too far away and inefficient, i should have assigned more farmers per field i think. But anyway, the freeze started in mid autumn already, i just didnt take the screenshot until late autumn. Also, i think it was mainly due to the bug, which reassigned workers really poor and made them run around all the time from workplace to workplace. That is not a bug. Every few minutes the game re-evaluates all workers and optimizes job assignments so limit travel time between house/workplace. What your seeing is people being reassigned while there moving to there work. Dont chance assignments as often and you will not that problem.
I know, but i really mean the specific bug in my case. If you look at the screenshots some professions arent 100% filled and some workers are in professions but have no job anyway. And its not just for some time until they run to their new location, they are permanently unassigned/bugged until i manually reassign and up the counter.
Btw, my pc freezes for about 5 seconds every time it reassigns people.
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Finally got my mountain men achievement ! Had 53 people at the end, so was cutting it quite close. The trader ships really didn`t bring any useful stuff, but oh well, 69% done on the achievement part.
I got a decent town going with around 750 people, but for some reason the game keeps crashing when it wants to autosave :/ Guess I might have to start another one. Do people here with towns over a certain size have problems with people starving to death eventhough you have plenty of food? (yes I have markets ) When I want to build new houses, people, often useless farmers go over there to clear, eventhough I have plenty of free labourers, resulting in them starving to death on their way back to their house. Any tips on how to fix or avoid this would be helpful, since everytime I want to build new stuff, people tend to die.
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On March 01 2014 23:18 Chanted wrote:
Finally got my mountain men achievement ! Had 53 people at the end, so was cutting it quite close. The trader ships really didn`t bring any useful stuff, but oh well, 69% done on the achievement part.
I got a decent town going with around 750 people, but for some reason the game keeps crashing when it wants to autosave :/ Guess I might have to start another one. Do people here with towns over a certain size have problems with people starving to death eventhough you have plenty of food? (yes I have markets ) When I want to build new houses, people, often useless farmers go over there to clear, eventhough I have plenty of free labourers, resulting in them starving to death on their way back to their house. Any tips on how to fix or avoid this would be helpful, since everytime I want to build new stuff, people tend to die.
Have you tried using the Beta of the new patch? I believe it mentioned your autosave problem
http://www.shiningrocksoftware.com/2014-02-27-working-on-an-update/
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I got all the achievements a few days ago (before going to the countryside for the weekend) and couldn't brag about it (if it's worth bragging about !).
Not sure what to do, guess trying a "How much I can reach in X,Y conditions" I guess. But since the game slows down hard at 1500 pop on my computer I'm a bit disgruntled to really continue playing.
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On March 03 2014 09:38 rezoacken wrote:
I got all the achievements a few days ago (before going to the countryside for the weekend) and couldn't brag about it (if it's worth bragging about !).
Not sure what to do, guess trying a "How much I can reach in X,Y conditions" I guess. But since the game slows down hard at 1500 pop on my computer I'm a bit disgruntled to really continue playing.
Sounds like you may have experienced all you really can until the modkit is released and people get cracking on mods.
I feel like there are so many possibilities with modding, although it depends on how much power the kit gives you to alter the game. Specific Things I would like to see:
1) Much more complex food and food industry, and an in-game wiki to support the complexity. It may be that some of this already exists in the game's engine, but it difficult for anyone to know. Regardless, I'd like to see different types of food providing more or less hunger based on the type of production. Meat should satisfy more hunger than crops. You should be able to process raw food and materials into cooked food which satisfies more hunger like bread, pies, stews, etc. This would be a great opportunity to expand the Tavern into a building that can hold more workers and accomplish more than just brewing Ale. The in-game help or wiki or whatever you want to call it should provide details for crops on growing seasons, irrigation requirements, and what uses the crop has for cooking and feeding livestock (see below).
2) In a similar vein, the pasture system should be enhanced. Livestock should produce meat (like they currently do), and meat should be highly valuable as a high-satisfaction food. To balance that, you should require a food source for your livestock in addition to your citizens. You should be able to feed certain crops to your livestock, and maybe new crops such as alfalfa should be introduced that can only be used to feed livestock, but have higher yields per tile than crops for human consumption to encourage their use. This would facilitate little ranching communities where you have several pastures and crop fields growing hay for livestock feed, and they can export their meat to the rest of your civilization in exchange for what they need. There are also a lot of things about the pasture interface that could be reworked, like knowing how many animals a pasture can hold before it is constructed, being able to sell animals at the trading post, and by extension store a handful of them there in case of an infestation. It's a bit strange that they will hang out in that little pen after you buy them, but you can never move them back.
3) Lots of little simulation and quality of life improvements, like the classic "I cleared 80 trees to make room for this market, but can't use the logs sitting on the foundation, I have to take them to the nearest stockpile and then bring them back." problems that are just frustrating to witness.
I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting, and I love this game but modding has the capability to make a great game truly timeless and I'm glad he's realizing this.
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You can also start on a small embark and try to push your population as much as you can (small shouldn't hit CPU limits). I'm currently working on that for my small mountain map and it's pretty interesting. With such tight space restrictions you really need to figure out how to get the most you can out of your population and what buildings you really need (or don't need) for a long running city.
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I feel like the dev should quickly add scenarios. You'd simply get restrictions and an objective. Something as simple as no school changes the game a lot, and you could throw in stuff like a tribe of vegans, carnivores, pacifists (no animal killing), etc.
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I don't think scenarios would really help; besides achievements already do that a bit.
The problem with the game is that after maybe 100-200 population everything ends up more of the same. Having no tech tree's is great; but when your town is essentially the same pattern replicated several times across the map the game feels stale and there's no sense of accomplishment in the later stages. The game is at its best <200 population where there are some real concerns about feeding, clothing, and warming everyone (though you get the hang of it generally after a few tries).
The sort of thing that might be worth doing would be to have food decay in storage unless it was processed into something. So implement bakeries, butcher shops, mills etc. in that way. It wouldn't affect the already solid early game as you tend to only stockpile small amounts of food, eat it constantly, and you are not on a seasonal food income basis. Later on as farming takes over you'll naturally need to expand into those industries to account for the seasonal nature of the industry. You could of course also include something like happiness bonuses for eating processed food, but that'd only matter if happiness wasn't trivial to keep very high.
A few other things would help too, especially better AI in the face of disasters (in game ones or poor management disasters). Right now the way the AI does certain things is setup in ways that pretty much ensure death spirals. Besides the whole fire priority stuff, things like the way food is distributed ensures that any hiccup in food production means everyone starves rather than a % of the population. It'd be nice if workers would take a desired amount of their own production before depositing it (so a fishery worker wouldn't starve so long as they were able to collect fish). You'd still have spirals; if the woodcutter starves the fishery worker will freeze to death, but you'd at least be able to have a better avenue to recovery depending on how you were hit. I've never really seen much in the way of taking a bit hit and recovering for a town.
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On March 04 2014 06:19 Logo wrote:
The problem with the game is that after maybe 100-200 population everything ends up more of the same. Having no tech tree's is great; but when your town is essentially the same pattern replicated several times across the map the game feels stale and there's no sense of accomplishment in the later stages. The game is at its best <200 population where there are some real concerns about feeding, clothing, and warming everyone (though you get the hang of it generally after a few tries).
I think it is even worse. After 250 or so pop you essentially don't have any progress any more. You probably have made your switch from gatherers to space-efficient stuff like farming and fishing by then.
The only thing that can happen, is a disaster that turns everything to shit. There is literally nothing else to look forward to. A massive turn-off for me.
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On March 04 2014 09:23 Dyme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 06:19 Logo wrote:
The problem with the game is that after maybe 100-200 population everything ends up more of the same. Having no tech tree's is great; but when your town is essentially the same pattern replicated several times across the map the game feels stale and there's no sense of accomplishment in the later stages. The game is at its best <200 population where there are some real concerns about feeding, clothing, and warming everyone (though you get the hang of it generally after a few tries). I think it is even worse. After 250 or so pop you essentially don't have any progress any more. You probably have made your switch from gatherers to space-efficient stuff like farming and fishing by then. The only thing that can happen, is a disaster that turns everything to shit. There is literally nothing else to look forward to. A massive turn-off for me.
It's not that straightforward to run a town that's no longer growing. You have to put up with population fluctuations, deal with imbalances of production, and deal with a constant building sadness from people dieing with no place to bury them (or only a % get buried).
Then on top of that industries like fire wood production and herding are space inefficient so there's the challenging of minimizing your reliance on those industries, but that's tough because those very same industries are the ones that produce good trade goods (directly or indirectly).
EDIT: Also holy hell do you lose a lot of population when you stop expanding. When your city is expanding your townspeople naturally fill up houses as potentially child bearing couples which drives birth rate pretty well. When your city is stagnant in growth the houses fill up such that you have parents + children all aging in the same house. The parents die unevenly and the towns people don't really move around in a reasonable way so you end up with a ton of your population not procreating. Then you get a natural die off. My small map mountain town went from 350 people -> ~175 people purely from natural causes. I think it's finally leveling out now, but it's sort of a weird oscillation. With the reduced population I can afford to cut back some aspects of production for more housing and other things which will expand the population again then cause another mini crash.
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People who are bored should focus on mining towns. no firewood only coal ect. its actually really fun figuring it all out.
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On March 04 2014 06:19 Logo wrote: It'd be nice if workers would take a desired amount of their own production before depositing it (so a fishery worker wouldn't starve so long as they were able to collect fish). God forbid that your blacksmith runs out of tools, and then can never get another one, because he can only get his from the barn, and never grabs it when he drops his tools...On March 09 2014 01:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
People who are bored should focus on mining towns. no firewood only coal ect. its actually really fun figuring it all out. That's why I think scenarios would be fun. I don't care if you can open a guide online to solve them, you can always do that in this kind of game, but solving the puzzle yourself is fun.
Let's face it, the game is pretty much won over 100 population baring a major disaster (which are not fun), unless you have your own restrictions. Game wasn't made for large or even medium maps. Trade posts break the game, mine/quarries are terrible, and seeds are just an on/off switch. But we can't expect fixes every week from a lone dev. He promised mod tools, so let's wait for those. Anyway, game is still great for 20$ in its current state.
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On March 09 2014 01:34 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 06:19 Logo wrote: It'd be nice if workers would take a desired amount of their own production before depositing it (so a fishery worker wouldn't starve so long as they were able to collect fish). God forbid that your blacksmith runs out of tools, and then can never get another one, because he can only get his from the barn, and never grabs it when he drops his tools... Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 01:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
People who are bored should focus on mining towns. no firewood only coal ect. its actually really fun figuring it all out. That's why I think scenarios would be fun. I don't care if you can open a guide online to solve them, you can always do that in this kind of game, but solving the puzzle yourself is fun. Let's face it, the game is pretty much won over 100 population baring a major disaster (which are not fun), unless you have your own restrictions. Game wasn't made for large or even medium maps. Trade posts break the game, mine/quarries are terrible, and seeds are just an on/off switch. But we can't expect fixes every week from a lone dev. He promised mod tools, so let's wait for those. Anyway, game is still great for 20$ in its current state.
Indeed, $20 is a steal of a deal for this quality.
I gotta say, the most fun I had in this game was before I found out how efficient the gatherer's huts are. I had to find ways to make my town more efficient while lacking one of the most productive buildings. Trying to figure it all out is certainly best part about these kinds of games.
On March 04 2014 09:23 Dyme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 06:19 Logo wrote:
The problem with the game is that after maybe 100-200 population everything ends up more of the same. Having no tech tree's is great; but when your town is essentially the same pattern replicated several times across the map the game feels stale and there's no sense of accomplishment in the later stages. The game is at its best <200 population where there are some real concerns about feeding, clothing, and warming everyone (though you get the hang of it generally after a few tries). I think it is even worse. After 250 or so pop you essentially don't have any progress any more. You probably have made your switch from gatherers to space-efficient stuff like farming and fishing by then. The only thing that can happen, is a disaster that turns everything to shit. There is literally nothing else to look forward to. A massive turn-off for me.
I don't think the endgame for builder-survival games has any real permanent solution. Games like Civ had the same problem. The only thing that can be done is to extend how long it takes to get to the 'assured victory' state. Banished is even more impossible to design, since it's not like the natural world is getting harsher as the days go by. At least for Civ you always had to stay ahead of everyone else. In the end, there isn't anything else to see once you 'figure it all out' in a single-player game.
At the very least, the best way to keep me entertained would be to add a little more randomness to the game rather than trying to fix the endgame. As it stands, every game I play takes the same path. I want terrain to affect my build design a little more. Right now I'm going back to "No Gatherer's Hut" rule, which is certainly spicing things up a bit but it won't take too long before I figure all of this out also.
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For what it's worth 1.02 is out and there's a 1.03 beta to test some additional laborer improvements.
http://www.shiningrocksoftware.com/2014-04-30-want-to-help-test/
Overall it addresses two major issues of the game: Fire control and some parts of long distance worker efficiency. Of note:
* Citizens are now more effective at fighting fires and putting them out.
* When fires break out, citizens fighting the fire now run at high speed.
* Citizens working in an area where a fire breaks out will now be interrupted to help fight the fire.
* Citizens fighting fires will only be interrupted by sickness, freezing, or starving.
* If citizens are already walking to get food at a distance location and become starved, they’ll now interrupt the walk and get food at the closest market or storage barn.
* If citizens are working far from home and become hungry, they’ll eat food from their home as if they brought food with them. This will not interrupt the current task. If no food is available at home they will interrupt the walk and get food at the closest market or storage barn.
*Citizens now won’t be assigned far away tasks without a specific profession (pickups, gathering, clearing, etc) unless the tasks have been around for a long time, or haven’t been assigned to someone local. This keeps citizens far away from walking across the map in most cases.
It's not something that changes the base experience or some of the sameness problems of the game, but it does make it far easier to push into the higher population numbers without your town grinding to a halt from AI inefficiencies or unstoppable fires.
I'm still hoping for the mod tools, but only somewhat because I'm skeptical of the level of control we'll get. I think what the game could really benefit from is some deeper simulation. I'd love something like soil/sunlight properties in different areas to influence crop yields, trade posts to more accurately simulate something coming from a different town rather than just a boat of generic goods, and more importance in the townspeople's individuality or positions. Also just some other things like professionals taking advantage of the task they perform (i.e. a blacksmith should always get first dibs on a tool they make, a farmer food, a lumberjack wood, and so on).
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Does anyone still play this?
1.04 is on Piratebay and Steam, is it worth installing Windows for?
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EPT
