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I'm surprised she hasn't tried to repeat the ending where they both survived but Madoka only had 1 grief seed with her. She could have stocked up a bazillions grief seeds and then save the day. EDIT : I guess her goal isn't to just save the day, but to make sure Madoka doesn't become a Mahou Shoujo. Then my idea doesn't work.
I think she just doesn't want Madoka to become a witch period. Like she feels like Madoka saved her life with Mami, and is madoka was her only friend. Letting her become a mahou shoujo, wouldn't really be saving her, cause eventually she'll become a witch, or at least have a chance to become one. Whereas if she doesn't become a mahou shoujo then there is no chance that she becomes a witch, therefore she has held Madoka's dying words, true.
Agreed. The only goal Homura has in mind is preventing Madoka from contracting, and she doesn't care what methods she has to use. I'm guessing she's tried many many different approaches already that haven't been shown, and is "perfecting" so to speak the path that will lead to Madoka's safety. She's learned how to prevent Madoka from contracting immediately, that she shouldn't befriend Mami, that she probably needs Kyouko's help, and maybe that Sayaka's death is inevitable lol.
I would imagine the show will end with Homura finally succeeding (possibly not the main timeline of the past 9 episodes) yet at the cost of her life. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if some bs gets pulled with an ending implying that Homura will never break free of the cycle and Madoka is doomed to be the destroyer of the earth, and then the universe.
Actually just thought of something. Madoka seems to subconsciously know about Homura. Perhaps some kind of weird convergence of timelines will occur due to Homura's incessant interference with it resulting in...something. That's all I got for now
A week of finals separates me and Madoka Homura 11.
I was a few minutes into watching when I started thinking "when is this show going to get serious, there are only 3 episodes left?..." until I realized that I would probably hate it then because I love watching horrible rom/coms. Then it did get serious and I was even more amused by how serious every character looked in the briefing meeting and how absurd houki's sister is. I think that this is a good change for the show as I was tiring of endless awkward moments where orimuna is left clueless surrounded by girls. Now I get to see stupid characters pretend to take dumb tasks seriously, which should keep me entertained for the last few episodes.
You can actually stand that, i think its retarded that a harem tries to get serious. Its like Zombie where they're trying to make some serious stuff but it just makes the show worse
I'm surprised she hasn't tried to repeat the ending where they both survived but Madoka only had 1 grief seed with her. She could have stocked up a bazillions grief seeds and then save the day. EDIT : I guess her goal isn't to just save the day, but to make sure Madoka doesn't become a Mahou Shoujo. Then my idea doesn't work.
I think she just doesn't want Madoka to become a witch period. Like she feels like Madoka saved her life with Mami, and is madoka was her only friend. Letting her become a mahou shoujo, wouldn't really be saving her, cause eventually she'll become a witch, or at least have a chance to become one. Whereas if she doesn't become a mahou shoujo then there is no chance that she becomes a witch, therefore she has held Madoka's dying words, true.
Agreed. The only goal Homura has in mind is preventing Madoka from contracting, and she doesn't care what methods she has to use. I'm guessing she's tried many many different approaches already that haven't been shown, and is "perfecting" so to speak the path that will lead to Madoka's safety. She's learned how to prevent Madoka from contracting immediately, that she shouldn't befriend Mami, that she probably needs Kyouko's help, and maybe that Sayaka's death is inevitable lol.
I would imagine the show will end with Homura finally succeeding (possibly not the main timeline of the past 9 episodes) yet at the cost of her life. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if some bs gets pulled with an ending implying that Homura will never break free of the cycle and Madoka is doomed to be the destroyer of the earth, and then the universe.
Actually just thought of something. Madoka seems to subconsciously know about Homura. Perhaps some kind of weird convergence of timelines will occur due to Homura's incessant interference with it resulting in...something. That's all I got for now
A week of finals separates me and Madoka Homura 11.
The time travel thing reminds me of Haruhi and with that endless eight shit. But taking from that it was like every near Haruhi would slowly feel deja vu or something which would make them realize that they were repeating over and over again. I think it might be the same case or at least similar case here where if Homura keeps resetting, the people around her, will slowly realize that they may know Homura from somewhere, but cant remember exactly. Well if Homura was to die trying to save madoka, should could keep resetting to get the perfect ending where she lives, madoka lives, etc etc. Except Homura would have the burden of being a mahou shoujo.
The Madoka's dream from the beginning of the anime was actually the previous timeline of Homura. So yea the theory that all the timelines will "converge" in some way might be the eventual solution.
So I was right. Homura really did watch Madoka die and then go back in time to save her. Though I didn't think she'd have to watch her friend(s) die several times.
Homura is really abusing the save system, isn't she?
At least now we know what the Madoka gaidens will be about
So, I just went back and watched that (awesome) fight sequence that started the series. And guess what? Everyone had their personal ISes (including Houki), and they were fighting the White Knight IS that was mentioned in this episode. I KNEW that that thing looked familiar.
Anyway, fuck this show. I was watching it because it was funny, but now I can't take it anymore. If this was 24 eps, I'd drop it now. But I'll stick it out until the end since there's only 2 eps left.
They really expect me to believe that this 5 year old bunny girl created the IS? And now Houki has the most broken IS. The girl who just 2 eps ago was getting kicked like a dog, now makes it look like she is using a Gundam to destroy shitty, mass-production Mobile Suits. What the fuck.
Silver Gospel is an American IS. I think they even mentioned it in this episode. I think it's supposed to be an improved version of Shenlong or Blue Tears, but I can't really remember.
Also, Akatsubaki is bullshit and Tabane needs to die in a fucking fire.
Amazing episode. We learn about Homura's backstory and about her motivations, and it's all horrifically tragic.
The thing with Mami going nuts and trying to kill everyone was pretty lol. She wasn't so good after all.
I loved the acquisition of weaponry. Just steal from the yakuza and the military rofl. It's believable too, since time stop is such a hax ability. The whole thing with Homura needing weapons is pretty cool in general. Her ability is powerful, but has no offensive abilities. But by "borrowing" power from an external source, she can do insane things.
Kyubey screwed up bigtime when he contracted with Homura. Got a little too greedy there, didn't we?
Huh, so the dick of a classmate makes his appearance. I guess we're getting the cross dressing incident in the anime after all.
On March 11 2011 11:02 Ecael wrote: Basically there are a few patterns in terms of time travelling and how it works. In this particular case, + Show Spoiler [Madoka] +
certain events can be considered as converging points that is triggered by other particular events. So when Madoka made contact with QB, Homura stopped pursuing knowing that it would lead to Mami and the rest working together. Homura seems to know a bit of how events would turn out, and I am pretty certain she has done more time travels than shown.
At any case, the way to get out of this end so far requires a few things. First, Madoka must not contract. Second, Homura must be able to take care of Walpurgis' Night without looking like she needs Madoka. In that sense, barring something truly random from Madoka, she is already doomed on this cycle - she can't take it alone. Even a veteran Madoka + Homura cannot take Walpurgis' Night. So in all, Homura needs to achieve a perfect end in that both Mami and Kyouko must not die. Sayaka in this equation is hard to figure out, as what event cause things to converge on her contract is unknown to us.
But yeah, in all, if Homura read SFs in general and thought more about her actions, she'd know that how she is tackling the issue atm is definitely not going to do anything. But yeah, there is no such way to work this kind of meta knowledge into characters.
Starting Kara no Kyoukai 2. From what episode am I suppose to understand what'a happening? Is there something I should know that would immensely help in understanding what's going on that's not a spoiler?
On March 11 2011 16:00 Wala.Revolution wrote: Starting Kara no Kyoukai 2. From what episode am I suppose to understand what'a happening? Is there something I should know that would immensely help in understanding what's going on that's not a spoiler?
So, I just went back and watched that (awesome) fight sequence that started the series. And guess what? Everyone had their personal ISes (including Houki), and they were fighting the White Knight IS that was mentioned in this episode. I KNEW that that thing looked familiar.
Anyway, fuck this show. I was watching it because it was funny, but now I can't take it anymore. If this was 24 eps, I'd drop it now. But I'll stick it out until the end since there's only 2 eps left.
They really expect me to believe that this 5 year old bunny girl created the IS? And now Houki has the most broken IS. The girl who just 2 eps ago was getting kicked like a dog, now makes it look like she is using a Gundam to destroy shitty, mass-production Mobile Suits. What the fuck.
Silver Gospel is an American IS. I think they even mentioned it in this episode. I think it's supposed to be an improved version of Shenlong or Blue Tears, but I can't really remember.
Also, Akatsubaki is bullshit and Tabane needs to die in a fucking fire.
Amazing episode. We learn about Homura's backstory and about her motivations, and it's all horrifically tragic.
The thing with Mami going nuts and trying to kill everyone was pretty lol. She wasn't so good after all.
I loved the acquisition of weaponry. Just steal from the yakuza and the military rofl. It's believable too, since time stop is such a hax ability. The whole thing with Homura needing weapons is pretty cool in general. Her ability is powerful, but has no offensive abilities. But by "borrowing" power from an external source, she can do insane things.
Kyubey screwed up bigtime when he contracted with Homura. Got a little too greedy there, didn't we?
On March 11 2011 11:02 Ecael wrote: Basically there are a few patterns in terms of time travelling and how it works. In this particular case, + Show Spoiler [Madoka] +
certain events can be considered as converging points that is triggered by other particular events. So when Madoka made contact with QB, Homura stopped pursuing knowing that it would lead to Mami and the rest working together. Homura seems to know a bit of how events would turn out, and I am pretty certain she has done more time travels than shown.
At any case, the way to get out of this end so far requires a few things. First, Madoka must not contract. Second, Homura must be able to take care of Walpurgis' Night without looking like she needs Madoka. In that sense, barring something truly random from Madoka, she is already doomed on this cycle - she can't take it alone. Even a veteran Madoka + Homura cannot take Walpurgis' Night. So in all, Homura needs to achieve a perfect end in that both Mami and Kyouko must not die. Sayaka in this equation is hard to figure out, as what event cause things to converge on her contract is unknown to us.
But yeah, in all, if Homura read SFs in general and thought more about her actions, she'd know that how she is tackling the issue atm is definitely not going to do anything. But yeah, there is no such way to work this kind of meta knowledge into characters.
the way Homura just gives up on on things makes it pretty plausible that Madoka universe behaves similarly. It is just pretty frustrating to see how in spite of however many repeats she has done, she has apparently learned very little from it.
That said, Okabe Rintarou is pretty damned smart, and he had Kurisu spoonfeeding him time travel related theories and possibilities. That's really the best I've seen in the VN/LN area in terms of addressing time travelers' ignorance though.
On March 11 2011 16:00 Wala.Revolution wrote: Starting Kara no Kyoukai 2. From what episode am I suppose to understand what'a happening? Is there something I should know that would immensely help in understanding what's going on that's not a spoiler?
NOPE.
I believe the earliest you will start understanding things is around movie 4 or 5.
And consider this: you already have an advantage because you've read Tsukihime, so you know that the MEoDP exist, and that Shiki's not just randomly cutting stuff in half.
If you watch really carefully, by 3 you'll have a good idea of current events and by 4 you can piece together most of the past. 5 will clear the deliberate misinformation from Nasu, and epilogue will laugh at all of those and tell you that your most basic assumptions are wrong.
Oh yeah, about IS, seriously Tabane needs to die in a fire. There is just no way to cope with that much plot armor.
I think by the time that the series ends everyone would agree with me on that, she is just that absurd and bad.
Since everything has already been said, let me just reiterate that this was one of the best episodes in the whole series. I wonder how they are going to trump it in the last two, but there is no question that this is one of the best series in 2011 already.
As was posted in another forum: Now the lyrics to Connect finally make sense. The song is not about Madoka at all, but about Homura.
I won’t forget the promise we made I’ll close my eyes and ascertain it Shaking off the darkness that closed in on me, I advance on
When can I see again here the future that I lost?
Again and again, I’ll tear apart the shadow of distress that spilled out and walk on in this world
The time that ticked away ceaselessly now announces the beginning Putting my unchanging feelings into it I’ll open the closed door
My heart awoke to draw the future where I’d start running Even if I come to a standstill on a difficult road The sky is always waiting for me in a beautiful blue So I’m not scared By now, no matter what happens, I won’t get disheartened
When I look back, my friends are there When I noticed it, they have me tenderly surrounded
In the world where just about everything is twisted The single place here I can believe in saved me
When we share our joys and sorrows, my feelings strengthen If my voice reaches you Then I can certainly create a miracle, right?
I won’t forget the promise we made I’ll close my eyes and ascertain it Shaking off the darkness that closed in on me, I advance on Because no matter how great of a wall there is I’ll show you I’ll overcome it, so I’ll certainly believe in tomorrow and pray
Wandering in a destroyed world I arrived there as if I was drawn towards it
My heart awoke to draw the future where I’d start running Even if I come to a standstill on a difficult road The sky is always waiting for me in a beautiful blue So I’m not scared By now, no matter what happens, I won’t get disheartened
Forever waiting for tomorrow
Tangentially related, have a Violin version of Connect by TAM:
Regarding Homura's time travel: why does it only activate after Walpurgis? Does she not have full control over it, or does she only activate the time travel part after Madoka dies? Or is fine control past time stoppage difficult? Theoretically, if her control is absolute, she could replay a section of the past any number of times until the criteria required to activate an event are met.
The way her time travel works is interesting. In Haruhi, the SOS brigade is caught in a time loop in which their bodies and minds revert to a predetermined state when the end of the cycle is reached. Nagato is the sole exception since the data integration thought entity is a concept that doesn't exist (presumably) in normal space-time.
In Homura's case, every time she goes back, she seems to travel through both time AND space, as she always ends up in the hospital bed. This is kinda odd, since time machines usually act only on either one or the other, but whatever, it's fictional/magical technology. Obviously her physical state does not revert, as she's incredibly athletic as proved by episode 1. She doesn't seem to have aged though, suggesting that either there haven't been that many loops, the time loop itself spans a short amount of time, or her body doesn't age (though that seems unlikely).
tl;dr - Worst end: Homura dies of old age and Madoka becomes a witch because nobody stopped her lol
Regarding Homura's time travel: why does it only activate after Walpurgis? Does she not have full control over it, or does she only activate the time travel part after Madoka dies? Or is fine control past time stoppage difficult? Theoretically, if her control is absolute, she could replay a section of the past any number of times until the criteria required to activate an event are met.
The way her time travel works is interesting. In Haruhi, the SOS brigade is caught in a time loop in which their bodies and minds revert to a predetermined state when the end of the cycle is reached. Nagato is the sole exception since the data integration thought entity is a concept that doesn't exist (presumably) in normal space-time.
In Homura's case, every time she goes back, she seems to travel through both time AND space, as she always ends up in the hospital bed. This is kinda odd, since time machines usually act only on either one or the other, but whatever, it's fictional/magical technology. Obviously her physical state does not revert, as she's incredibly athletic as proved by episode 1. She doesn't seem to have aged though, suggesting that either there haven't been that many loops, the time loop itself spans a short amount of time, or her body doesn't age (though that seems unlikely).
tl;dr - Worst end: Homura dies of old age and Madoka becomes a witch because nobody stopped her lol
She is athletic and everything because her body is no longer her body. She is a magical girl, that means that her body is what she wants it to be. As is highlighted with her fixing her eyes later in the episode.
I think that her time travel wish is automated. She wished for her to protect and save Madoka. That wish is still trying to be fulfilled for her, so every time she fails, she will revert to a "world state" where it is still possible to fulfill that wish.
Regarding Homura's time travel: why does it only activate after Walpurgis? Does she not have full control over it, or does she only activate the time travel part after Madoka dies? Or is fine control past time stoppage difficult? Theoretically, if her control is absolute, she could replay a section of the past any number of times until the criteria required to activate an event are met.
The way her time travel works is interesting. In Haruhi, the SOS brigade is caught in a time loop in which their bodies and minds revert to a predetermined state when the end of the cycle is reached. Nagato is the sole exception since the data integration thought entity is a concept that doesn't exist (presumably) in normal space-time.
In Homura's case, every time she goes back, she seems to travel through both time AND space, as she always ends up in the hospital bed. This is kinda odd, since time machines usually act only on either one or the other, but whatever, it's fictional/magical technology. Obviously her physical state does not revert, as she's incredibly athletic as proved by episode 1. She doesn't seem to have aged though, suggesting that either there haven't been that many loops, the time loop itself spans a short amount of time, or her body doesn't age (though that seems unlikely).
tl;dr - Worst end: Homura dies of old age and Madoka becomes a witch because nobody stopped her lol
She is athletic and everything because her body is no longer her body. She is a magical girl, that means that her body is what she wants it to be. As is highlighted with her fixing her eyes later in the episode.
I think that her time travel wish is automated. She wished for her to protect and save Madoka. That wish is still trying to be fulfilled for her, so every time she fails, she will revert to a "world state" where it is still possible to fulfill that wish.
Oh yeah, that's true. I was mistakenly thinking of her as a normal person. =/
One more thing: in the initial loops, Homura entered a timeframe where Madoka was already a magical girl before she first shows up at the school. However, on subsequent visits, she somehow prevents Madoka from making that crucial first contact with Kyubey. So either she's capable of controlling her "landing point", or there are a few days between her arrival time and when Madoka first contracts, giving her the time she needs to hunt down Kyubey and warn Madoka. I'm leaning towards the latter. However, if this is the case, what on earth was she doing in that time period in the first few time loops?
EPT
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