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On July 19 2012 02:26 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 02:16 Ecael wrote:On July 19 2012 02:02 ragz_gt wrote:
Slowly chewing through Vol 2 of Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon to keep me ahead of anime... OMG this thing must weight 3 pounds. And only part 1. The second season anime is much better executed than season one I'd say. Rather than better executed, what you are looking for is probably easier to adapt, vol 2 is rather combat-centric rather than talking heads. That and season 1 has already established the majority of the characters, so less awkwardness resulting from having a gigantic cast and not enough time. They are still going with trying to abridge the whole thing to fit it into a reasonable length though, so we might see more dumb stuff like how Elizabeth just announces her intentions in ep2, which might mean the England-Musashi meeting later on is going to get dumbed down to hell. I was really sad when I remembered that they cut out Taka and Fusae's little married couple talk about Tres Espana's strategy though. So many things taken out QQ On another note, Ep2's Gin is hilariously cute. Gin <3, though Kimi is still my fav Wish we'd see a Owari no Chronicle anime, though that might be even more confusing then Horizon.
Uta and I have long wondered why AHEAD didn't get anime before Genesis, honestly I think it will be easier than Horizon simply because of fewer talking heads to juggle. Also hot steamy trap sex should be like fotm. How are they not picking it up~
You'll have fun w vol 4 if you are a Kimi fan, I am waiting patiently for vol 5 release QQ
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I think AHEAD series' concept is more confusing than Horizon, but it gets the benefit of ramping up character counts than get a ton dumped on you at once (though the ramp is pretty steep). I enjoy character of GENESIS more but like story of AHEAD better. I thought AHEAD was ridiculously dense read until I picked up Horizon.... which is just out of control.
Really, how can either be called light novel when each book literally weighs a pound+
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Is it a good idea to read vol 1 of Horizon if about the first half of Horizon s1 confused me a lot? I want to understand the things I'm watching, eheheh...
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On July 19 2012 02:41 ragz_gt wrote:
I think AHEAD series' concept is more confusing than Horizon, but it gets the benefit of ramping up character counts than get a ton dumped on you at once (though the ramp is pretty steep). I enjoy character of GENESIS more but like story of AHEAD better. I thought AHEAD was ridiculously dense read until I picked up Horizon.... which is just out of control.
Really, how can either be called light novel when each book literally weighs a pound+
Genesis is supposed to be total of 9+ vols, vol1~3 forming part 1, 3 parts total. Given how AHEAD was, the story probably isn't gonna start until rather later, like vol 5 or 6, and we'll be dealing mostly with isolated historical events. So yeah I can't really say much about the story yet.
Concept wise I think both AHEAD and Genesis are equally confusing but since the latter takes place chronologically later and reuse a lot of the stuff, having read AHEAD, we naturally find Genesis much easier to digest.
On July 19 2012 02:44 Maxie wrote:
Is it a good idea to read vol 1 of Horizon if about the first half of Horizon s1 confused me a lot? I want to understand the things I'm watching, eheheh...
During S1 people were mostly working off random stuff uta translates and random explanation posts and question asking in IRC. I don't know how far the translation effort is for vol 1 but, it'll definitely help.
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On July 19 2012 02:44 Maxie wrote:
Is it a good idea to read vol 1 of Horizon if about the first half of Horizon s1 confused me a lot? I want to understand the things I'm watching, eheheh...
I usually enjoy anime more if I haven't read the original manga/novel/game, but there are some you really need to read the story first to understand / appreciate the anime. I think these works are specially targeting the existing audience, rather than for someone to just jump in. Horizon is definitely one of those, and I'd say Fate / Zero and to a lesser degree Kara no Kyoukai.
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On July 19 2012 02:56 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 02:44 Maxie wrote:
Is it a good idea to read vol 1 of Horizon if about the first half of Horizon s1 confused me a lot? I want to understand the things I'm watching, eheheh... I usually enjoy anime more if I haven't read the original manga/novel/game, but there are some you really need to read the story first to understand / appreciate the anime. I think these works are specially targeting the existing audience, rather than for someone to just jump in. Horizon is definitely one of those, and I'd say Fate / Zero and to a lesser degree Kara no Kyoukai.
Speaking of anime the appeal to the existing audience, is Persona 4 anything you can watch with absolutely no prior knowledge, or should I just ignore it?
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I did, I understood it just fine.
Just like any other anime based on a game or whatever, people who have played them will get more out of it. Persona 4, Tales of the Abyss, and other anime that more or less comprise the entire game are watchable with no prior knowledge though.
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On July 19 2012 01:53 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 01:45 EchOne wrote:
The issue isn't whether anyone is surprised. The issue is how it is bad.
I finished MLA yesterday afternoon. Still too shell shocked to write thoughts. Maybe I'll get to that next week. Par for the course, would you prefer the hilarity that was ZnT? That was actually in published version instead of being done as something online too. Like I might understand if Sent is arguing about how the prose is bad, but relatively random sex in itself is eh. Not sure how MLA is shocking enough for you to chew on for a week, it was a straightforward work.
I guess we don't want to spoiler SAO stuff anymore? Fine with me lol.
Kaze was right, I don't really care that they had a sex scene. I found it hilarious how the dude decided to surpass Nasu with his sex-scene, but the fact that it existed wasn't my main point. I thought I made it clear that the entire development of their entire relationship sucked. It was like if I was reading a generic romcom VN, and the game started from 3/4s of the way through but didn't fill you in on anything, and then held down ctrl from that point until the end. Aka shit.
IMO being "par for the course" and Asuna being a dutchwife isn't much an excuse for how shitty their relationship was built lol.
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On July 19 2012 01:41 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 01:30 KazeHydra wrote:On July 18 2012 23:03 Ecael wrote:
I might be missing something here, but who gives a damn about whether SAO had a scene like a slashfic or not? Won't be the first time a light novel does it, only question would be how graphic it ends up being. From the way things are, if there are any graphic details, it would've been from the old webnovel version and long since edited out of the published version (and the anime). Point of Asuna is to be a dutchwife anyway, so who cares?
We can go into the whole girls sell marketing strategy and whatever again but honestly I don't think it makes for the problem with SAO, lol.
Maybe I am just desensitized to the whole thing after the hot steamy trap sex and regular sex that happens about every vol in AHEAD, hue. + Show Spoiler [SAO LN] + I don't think Sentenal has much of a problem with LOLSEXXXX, but rather that the development behind their relationship is pretty weak, and I somewhat agree. It's one thing if it was just some hentai with no plot to begin with, but vol1 gives the impression that the author is trying to set up some romantic relationship that has been developed over the 2 years of SAO. However, in the end, it becomes more like "hey we've been friends for awhile that the author didn't write anything about and we fought that boss and I almost died, so let's have sex and get married!" So the problem is they're supposed to already have very strong [sexual] feelings for each other and this development is just completely skipped over. I don't have as much of a problem with it as Sent but his complaint is the build up, or lack thereof, as opposed to the existence of the scene. Everyone just ended up responding to the sex instead of his actual point lol. I guess that's why Progressive is getting done and author goes for the retcon, probably to flesh some more things out. Though honestly, they are in high school age, living on the edge in being on the frontier most of the time and neither of them had really done much but grind for the last around 1~1.5years, considering the situation, it wouldn't so much be romance as just the rebound of such a lifestyle. I think the short stories tried to work that out some more in focusing on how populations of player approach the situation that they are in (or the social experiment aspect of SAO), but that's that. Either way, weak writing coupled w/ a dutchwife princess peach, shouldn't really be surprised at little romantic buildup into sex lol.
Read the side stories if you want more background into the whole story
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Sword_Art_Online:Aria_in_the_Starless_Night
and
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Sword_Art_Online:Rondo_of_the_Transient_Sword
(this one isn't completed) They are side stories the author added on that inform you what happened in the 2 years.
Warning: They are extremely long and could practically be another volume altogether and they show the development between Asuna and Kirito how they met, etc... instead of just the "2 years later" thing we get in the real LN as well as the whole "Beater" thing that was introduced in both the anime and LN. Although I do agree if you just read the LN and you look at their relationship it's really superficial and seems to just be teenage drama/romance.
It also shows how much the anime is missing such as Argo the rat and other such characters which are quite important to the plot development and this hate for the "beta testers", but the main one mainly being Kirito. Maybe the producers didn't think they had that much time, pushing an entire side story (and the next episode seems to be the same as well using another ep to fill a side story (what's worse is that it's not even the next side story if they were going for a chronological order.)). Seeing they have an entire season and them using 1 episode to fill in like 10 chapters worth of material, I see them going into ALF and GGO arcs which could make SAO seem extremely shallow, but we'll have to see how this ends up working.
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On July 19 2012 05:54 Shinshady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 01:41 Ecael wrote:On July 19 2012 01:30 KazeHydra wrote:On July 18 2012 23:03 Ecael wrote:
I might be missing something here, but who gives a damn about whether SAO had a scene like a slashfic or not? Won't be the first time a light novel does it, only question would be how graphic it ends up being. From the way things are, if there are any graphic details, it would've been from the old webnovel version and long since edited out of the published version (and the anime). Point of Asuna is to be a dutchwife anyway, so who cares?
We can go into the whole girls sell marketing strategy and whatever again but honestly I don't think it makes for the problem with SAO, lol.
Maybe I am just desensitized to the whole thing after the hot steamy trap sex and regular sex that happens about every vol in AHEAD, hue. + Show Spoiler [SAO LN] + I don't think Sentenal has much of a problem with LOLSEXXXX, but rather that the development behind their relationship is pretty weak, and I somewhat agree. It's one thing if it was just some hentai with no plot to begin with, but vol1 gives the impression that the author is trying to set up some romantic relationship that has been developed over the 2 years of SAO. However, in the end, it becomes more like "hey we've been friends for awhile that the author didn't write anything about and we fought that boss and I almost died, so let's have sex and get married!" So the problem is they're supposed to already have very strong [sexual] feelings for each other and this development is just completely skipped over. I don't have as much of a problem with it as Sent but his complaint is the build up, or lack thereof, as opposed to the existence of the scene. Everyone just ended up responding to the sex instead of his actual point lol. I guess that's why Progressive is getting done and author goes for the retcon, probably to flesh some more things out. Though honestly, they are in high school age, living on the edge in being on the frontier most of the time and neither of them had really done much but grind for the last around 1~1.5years, considering the situation, it wouldn't so much be romance as just the rebound of such a lifestyle. I think the short stories tried to work that out some more in focusing on how populations of player approach the situation that they are in (or the social experiment aspect of SAO), but that's that. Either way, weak writing coupled w/ a dutchwife princess peach, shouldn't really be surprised at little romantic buildup into sex lol. Read the side stories if you want more background into the whole story http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Sword_Art_Online:Aria_in_the_Starless_Nightand http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Sword_Art_Online:Rondo_of_the_Transient_Sword(this one isn't completed) They are side stories the author added on that inform you what happened in the 2 years. Warning: They are extremely long and could practically be another volume altogether and they show the development between Asuna and Kirito how they met, etc... instead of just the "2 years later" thing we get in the real LN as well as the whole "Beater" thing that was introduced in both the anime and LN. Although I do agree if you just read the LN and you look at their relationship it's really superficial and seems to just be teenage drama/romance. It also shows how much the anime is missing such as Argo the rat and other such characters which are quite important to the plot development and this hate for the "beta testers", but the main one mainly being Kirito. Maybe the producers didn't think they had that much time, pushing an entire side story (and the next episode seems to be the same as well using another ep to fill a side story (what's worse is that it's not even the next side story if they were going for a chronological order.)). Seeing they have an entire season and them using 1 episode to fill in like 10 chapters worth of material, I see them going into ALF and GGO arcs which could make SAO seem extremely shallow, but we'll have to see how this ends up working.
Its nice that later on the author decided to go back and fill in the holes, and I'll probably eventually get to that stuff, I just think its insane that that stuff wasn't put in there in the first place, at the start of volume 1. Its like the guy has no idea how to handle story progression, and then after the fact goes "Oh shit, I think I skipped something important..." and adds it in.
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I really have to agree with you there since I felt the story reached the ending way too soon and the "main story" ended in one volume where as the next arcs end in 2 volumes. Really pitiful seeing how this stuff is being added quite late but meh the story already lost all it's sense after playing the time skip card and then getting Kirito into a relationship, which he gets into quite frequently after...
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Almost forgot
On July 19 2012 01:45 EchOne wrote:
The issue isn't whether anyone is surprised. The issue is how it is bad.
I finished MLA yesterday afternoon. Still too shell shocked to write thoughts. Maybe I'll get to that next week.
Is that a good shell shocked or a bad shell shocked? You completed Alternative in like 3-4 days, thats tons faster than how I read it lol
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On July 19 2012 06:36 Sentenal wrote:Almost forgot Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 01:45 EchOne wrote:
The issue isn't whether anyone is surprised. The issue is how it is bad.
I finished MLA yesterday afternoon. Still too shell shocked to write thoughts. Maybe I'll get to that next week. Is that a good shell shocked or a bad shell shocked? You completed Alternative in like 3-4 days, thats tons faster than how I read it lol
Think it was like 5 days for me, lol. I'm really curious of what he's going to write. 
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+ Show Spoiler [Nazo no Kanojo 13 (end)] +Here, taste my saliva, that is how I feel.
Let me taste your saliva, this is how you feel.
^This is pretty much all I got through out the entire series, it got pretty repetitive really fast.
It was still a good watch, especially when Urabe tied her hair back, that part was pretty cute.
Ending was disappointing though, I thought they were gonna have sex.
6/10
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On July 19 2012 07:49 Emnjay808 wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Nazo no Kanojo 13 (end)] +Here, taste my saliva, that is how I feel.
Let me taste your saliva, this is how you feel.
^This is pretty much all I got through out the entire series, it got pretty repetitive really fast.
It was still a good watch, especially when Urabe tied her hair back, that part was pretty cute.
Ending was disappointing though, I thought they were gonna have sex.
6/10
+ Show Spoiler [Nazo no Kanojo] + The whole series went by without even a kiss. I thought it would get interesting at some point, but it never did. 6/10 would not recommend
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On July 19 2012 08:27 Ushio wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 07:49 Emnjay808 wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Nazo no Kanojo 13 (end)] +Here, taste my saliva, that is how I feel.
Let me taste your saliva, this is how you feel.
^This is pretty much all I got through out the entire series, it got pretty repetitive really fast.
It was still a good watch, especially when Urabe tied her hair back, that part was pretty cute.
Ending was disappointing though, I thought they were gonna have sex.
6/10 + Show Spoiler [Nazo no Kanojo] + The whole series went by without even a kiss. I thought it would get interesting at some point, but it never did. 6/10 would not recommend
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, the story never got anymore exciting. It stayed at the same level the entire series. Weak shit.
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Oh right, before I forget. SAO is better than AW at least. Higher entertainment value.
On July 19 2012 05:51 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 01:53 Ecael wrote:On July 19 2012 01:45 EchOne wrote:
The issue isn't whether anyone is surprised. The issue is how it is bad.
I finished MLA yesterday afternoon. Still too shell shocked to write thoughts. Maybe I'll get to that next week. Par for the course, would you prefer the hilarity that was ZnT? That was actually in published version instead of being done as something online too. Like I might understand if Sent is arguing about how the prose is bad, but relatively random sex in itself is eh. Not sure how MLA is shocking enough for you to chew on for a week, it was a straightforward work. I guess we don't want to spoiler SAO stuff anymore? Fine with me lol. Kaze was right, I don't really care that they had a sex scene. I found it hilarious how the dude decided to surpass Nasu with his sex-scene, but the fact that it existed wasn't my main point. I thought I made it clear that the entire development of their entire relationship sucked. It was like if I was reading a generic romcom VN, and the game started from 3/4s of the way through but didn't fill you in on anything, and then held down ctrl from that point until the end. Aka shit. IMO being "par for the course" and Asuna being a dutchwife isn't much an excuse for how shitty their relationship was built lol.
Except like her entire point is to be the person to fap to for the series, not a character, but a plot device, lol.
idk I think I am just resigned to the idea of her being like that and don't really want to waste the energy to think about it and complain, rather complain about larger issues when the characters themselves are pretty insignificant.
On July 19 2012 05:54 Shinshady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 01:41 Ecael wrote:On July 19 2012 01:30 KazeHydra wrote:On July 18 2012 23:03 Ecael wrote:
I might be missing something here, but who gives a damn about whether SAO had a scene like a slashfic or not? Won't be the first time a light novel does it, only question would be how graphic it ends up being. From the way things are, if there are any graphic details, it would've been from the old webnovel version and long since edited out of the published version (and the anime). Point of Asuna is to be a dutchwife anyway, so who cares?
We can go into the whole girls sell marketing strategy and whatever again but honestly I don't think it makes for the problem with SAO, lol.
Maybe I am just desensitized to the whole thing after the hot steamy trap sex and regular sex that happens about every vol in AHEAD, hue. + Show Spoiler [SAO LN] + I don't think Sentenal has much of a problem with LOLSEXXXX, but rather that the development behind their relationship is pretty weak, and I somewhat agree. It's one thing if it was just some hentai with no plot to begin with, but vol1 gives the impression that the author is trying to set up some romantic relationship that has been developed over the 2 years of SAO. However, in the end, it becomes more like "hey we've been friends for awhile that the author didn't write anything about and we fought that boss and I almost died, so let's have sex and get married!" So the problem is they're supposed to already have very strong [sexual] feelings for each other and this development is just completely skipped over. I don't have as much of a problem with it as Sent but his complaint is the build up, or lack thereof, as opposed to the existence of the scene. Everyone just ended up responding to the sex instead of his actual point lol. I guess that's why Progressive is getting done and author goes for the retcon, probably to flesh some more things out. Though honestly, they are in high school age, living on the edge in being on the frontier most of the time and neither of them had really done much but grind for the last around 1~1.5years, considering the situation, it wouldn't so much be romance as just the rebound of such a lifestyle. I think the short stories tried to work that out some more in focusing on how populations of player approach the situation that they are in (or the social experiment aspect of SAO), but that's that. Either way, weak writing coupled w/ a dutchwife princess peach, shouldn't really be surprised at little romantic buildup into sex lol. Read the side stories if you want more background into the whole story http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Sword_Art_Online:Aria_in_the_Starless_Nightand http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Sword_Art_Online:Rondo_of_the_Transient_Sword(this one isn't completed) They are side stories the author added on that inform you what happened in the 2 years. Warning: They are extremely long and could practically be another volume altogether and they show the development between Asuna and Kirito how they met, etc... instead of just the "2 years later" thing we get in the real LN as well as the whole "Beater" thing that was introduced in both the anime and LN. Although I do agree if you just read the LN and you look at their relationship it's really superficial and seems to just be teenage drama/romance. It also shows how much the anime is missing such as Argo the rat and other such characters which are quite important to the plot development and this hate for the "beta testers", but the main one mainly being Kirito. Maybe the producers didn't think they had that much time, pushing an entire side story (and the next episode seems to be the same as well using another ep to fill a side story (what's worse is that it's not even the next side story if they were going for a chronological order.)). Seeing they have an entire season and them using 1 episode to fill in like 10 chapters worth of material, I see them going into ALF and GGO arcs which could make SAO seem extremely shallow, but we'll have to see how this ends up working.
I'll get through those sometime before the weekend, that or just skip to vol 8 for the SAO side stories there so I can not care about the retarded transition into ALO and delay reading that as long as possible. Either way though, the author himself is just bad so even w/ Progressive I don't expect any improvement to the character development.
The storyboarding is honestly pretty dumb, they have good potential for SAO, which was better concept wise than GGO (lol lightsaber), then decides to rush through it and set up season 2 for I guess GGO.
iirc though he did a fair number of the side stories as web novels well before getting things picked up, given the way web novels work, the success was probably the cause of the lol leap into ALO. The publishing order though just...yeah. Vol 1 in itself is fine as the standalone main story really, weak character development notwithstanding. It makes more sense to publish that as the long story segment because the guy simply isn't good enough to take all of the short stories and throw it into one larger work rather than post them as ss compilations. In the end I guess the real merit of SAO would be best judged by Progressive, which will hopefully be a good enough retcon and combination of all the things SAO related to let me ignore how stupid retcon is.
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I don't think Horizon/Genesis are considered light novels. I know a lot of light novels that get called light novels by the popular public are not actually marketed as light novels and are just considered such because they have an anime-style cover. Kodansha is one such publishing company that mostly publishes "novels" and stuff like KnK and Bakemonogatari are published under the exact same name. They're just called light novels because of the cover.
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On July 19 2012 09:59 Southlight wrote:
I don't think Horizon/Genesis are considered light novels. I know a lot of light novels that get called light novels by the popular public are not actually marketed as light novels and are just considered such because they have an anime-style cover. Kodansha is one such publishing company that mostly publishes "novels" and stuff like KnK and Bakemonogatari are published under the exact same name. They're just called light novels because of the cover.
Sooo... they are heavy novels? 
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EPT
