Anime Discussion Thread - Page 1681

Ok apparently this whole episode was giving us more character info on the 3 kings. From what I understand, Saber is reason of being king is to fight for the people and is kinda Idealistic because she fought for justice but she didnt take time to understand her own troops which is why she eventually died because she got betrayed by her own troops. Therefore, she didnt lead her troops and didnt take time to understand them.

Now Rider, his argument is that to be a true king you must be greedy and have big dreams to inspire those that are around you to fight for you. Basically a King must be someone that is so great that his people will see him as basically a god so that he is worth dying for. This kinda make sense because his Noble Phantasm is a reality marble of all the warrior that admired him and fought with him. Saber argued that the reason his empire crumble because he failed to understand his people and make a good living for them so when he died his empire got split into 3 and fell apart.

Now archer just dont really give a crap.

This is all correct right? Alot of dialogue this episode so it kinda hard to grasp.

TLDR: Saber ideal of king is one who fight for the people. Rider ideal of king is someone who is great that inspire and give hope to the people.

Saber got a proper scolding

Rider and Archer scoffs at the naive and idealist Saber.

The point is that Saber is just a king by name, but doesn't have a soul worthy of a king. It's a political ideology, and one that historically you'd really have to agree with Rider. That is, Saber attempted to save people, but the king as a leader of people must be someone that LEADS, not just a superhero. Her dream of saving her country from its ruinous fate is worthless because her utter lack of leadership was the primary cause for its downfall, and to reject her life, and subsequently the lives of those who sacrificed themselves for her, is utter humiliation; a spitting on their corpses, so to speak, further denigrating her from her "king"ship.

Lolwut?

Poor Saber, came off as a selfish martyr that never understood the hearts of her own knights/kingdom. On the other hand, Iskandar's ultimate noble phantasm was really well done.

assassin looks so weak

Assassin is weak, though.

Assasin's power is in numbers, besides I don't think you'd usually use a Assassin Class servant to fight other servants, more efficiently you can just assassinate the master if possible.

assassin is not a combat class. Caster is also not a combat class, although in F/Z and F/SN they seem to have trouble restraining themselves (pride of heroes?). Assassin' strength is that it is the single class that other heroes simply cannot notice. At all. Their daggers are also pseudo Geibulgs from F/SN, in that they have a fatal poison. They also have the ability to check the "stats" of a hero instantly, which means the master generally knows WHO the heroes are (bear in mind it's supposed to be a secret) and generally comprehends most of their armament. The idea is to use this knowledge to assassinate other masters, but to this point in F/Z most of the servants didn't stray from their masters, or their masters were good at avoiding detection (Kiritsugu), or the master was being used as bait (Ryuunosuke).

For a bit of trivia, the problem with assassin is that a number of heroes have anti-ranged attack intuition, most notably Saber and Lancer (both of whom are simply impregnable versus ranged fire), although in F/Z a handful of other heroes also have this skill.

The other issue (this pertains to caster) is that heroes by nature became heroes by vanquishing magic/evil. That means they all tend to have heavy magic resistance. As you'd imagine this gives Caster the shaft, as this class ends up being hard-countered by other classes. In particular Lancer, who (harkening back to Dragonslayer legends) is a class that was designed especially to slay sorcery...

It make sense that the assassin class is not suitable for straight on fight. But isnt there a rule that been set that you can NOT send servants after masters? I remember them talking about how it was illegal to kill the Master. If this is so, then that means that if you summoned the class Assassin then you are pretty much screwed over since you cant use him to his full ability and is force to fight head on. Of course Assassin is amazing at scout because Kotomine knows everything that is going on but being forced to fight head on is rather suicide if you given assassin imo.

Also, the Assassin in FSN/UBW is an exception to the rule of how Assassins normally are. The Assassin in those 2 stories was a fake-Assassin. It was a fake-Noble Spirit that was summoned by another Servant, so thats why he was so different. The assassin from F/Z and HF are what Assassins are always supposed to be.

Can he only use his Noble Phantasm and get a billion servants in his alternate reality? Or can he bring them into the "real" world too?

Only within the Reality Marble. Wouldn't it be screwed up if you can bring stuff from your reality marbles out into the real world? Reality Marbles themselves are pretty OP already

There are two instances where I can remember bringing Servants into actual reality. One was during the fight with Caster, where he sent a messenger to the outside to coordinate with Waver. Later on was when he brought out his Horse (which is a Heroic Spirit) for common use.

No because Reality Marble, as its name suggest, is an alternate reality that is created by painting the user's soul on the world. In other word, it reverts reality (the real world) and concept (the world define by user's soul) and contains the reality in the world egg. Such an action violate the laws of the World and the world will correct this error by crushing the Reality Marble, unless the user can supply enough mana/prana to sustain it.

So in short, if Rider summons many of his servants outside the Reality Marble or on the real world, the world will correct such an error by crushing that existence of the servant since he/she does not exist in the reality. He can summon one or two, but thousands is out of question.