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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 30 2013 22:59 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 21:40 Lorizean wrote:
@unkkz:
About Robb thinking with his dick - I read somebodies position on that a while back (dunno where, might've been in this thread) that I kinda agree with:
- In the Series it is exactly that - he thinks Talisa is hot and that's why he breaks off the Engagement with the Freys
- In the Books, Jeyne "comforts" him when he is wounded and later on he marries her because it is the <b>honorable</b> thing to do in that situation;
This has very different connotations, because he was more or less forced into marrying Jeyne because of his concept of Honor. Yes. But that is kind of a moot point, since by marrying her he breaks an oath hence his honor is gone. If he doesn't marry her he´s dishonored aswell. Just the option he chooses also has the pretty obvious effect of pissing off an important ally. And this ultimately leads to his demise and the entire war ends. It is clear to everyone around him but him, that marrying her was an idiotic thing, honor or not. And him "comforting her" would be him thinking with his dick. Even if i editted that part out 
Robb married Jeyne for her honor, not his. And he was several years younger and was "comforted" on the night he learned both his younger brothers had been killed by his best friend. He also knows what a collosal mess it has created but was naive enough to think he could fix it and starts trying to work on that from the moment he tells Catelyn that he got married.
TV Robb on the other hand is older, ignores his mother's council against marrying, ignores that his bannermen don't like Talisa, does it strictly for selfish reasons, and doesn't even seem to realize that maybe he did something wrong or that his decision might be a problem.
Even though the show said that the Freys gave him all their men except for a small force left behind to garrison the Twins, the show completely ignored that and never had them leave him after the wedding, and never showed them helping him or interacting with him since the bridge. The whole story line has kind of been botched. The idea that he marched his army all the way to the Crag in the far west north of Casterly Rock when he still had both the Freys AND the Karstarks and didn't think about attacking Casterly Rock, but then marched his whole army over 300 miles to an empty Harrenhal, then back to Riverrun and just now came up with the idea to attack Casterly Rock and wants the Freys to rejoin him and help is poor writing.
Will non-readers even care about the Freys? Can you really blame the TV Freys for picking the Lannisters over Robb who just betrayed them and was already vastly outnumbered before losing the Karstarks (which the TV bumped up to control half of the entire northern army). In the books we have Big and Little Walder at Winterfell being jackasses. We have the Frey squire at Harrenhal mistreating Arya, when really she is the princess he was pledged to. We have Cleos Frey traveling with Jaime and Brienne and dieing. We have Walder Frey's eldest and heir dying in battle for Robb. We have a Frey squire for Robb. We have the Freys under Roose Bolton encouraging him to convince Robb to bend the knee after the Blackwater and losing Winterfell. We have Ser Perwyn Frey accompany Catelyn when she goes to see Renly. Most of these have to be cut for TV budget and casting restriction purposes, but without any of that how powerful of a "betrayal" is it really? Robb hasn't given the Freys anything and has only broken his word and they haven't had a presence on the show since season 1. TV Robb makes me a Frey sympathizer.
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True, the Freys are portrayed as assholes constantly throughout the books, the bastard power hungry house so to say.
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Oh those poor, poor souls in the other thread, talking about how the Unsullied would fare against the Westeros armies.. We'll talk again in 4 years.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On May 01 2013 07:54 Conti wrote:
Oh those poor, poor souls in the other thread, talking about how the Unsullied would fare against the Westeros armies.. We'll talk again in 4 years.
yeah i kinda feel bad for what they have to endure. Some of the most boring and frustrating times are ahead for those who were interested in the dany story, which after last week's epic ending, seems like there's a lot.
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On May 01 2013 02:45 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:59 unkkz wrote:On April 30 2013 21:40 Lorizean wrote:
@unkkz:
About Robb thinking with his dick - I read somebodies position on that a while back (dunno where, might've been in this thread) that I kinda agree with:
- In the Series it is exactly that - he thinks Talisa is hot and that's why he breaks off the Engagement with the Freys
- In the Books, Jeyne "comforts" him when he is wounded and later on he marries her because it is the <b>honorable</b> thing to do in that situation;
This has very different connotations, because he was more or less forced into marrying Jeyne because of his concept of Honor. Yes. But that is kind of a moot point, since by marrying her he breaks an oath hence his honor is gone. If he doesn't marry her he´s dishonored aswell. Just the option he chooses also has the pretty obvious effect of pissing off an important ally. And this ultimately leads to his demise and the entire war ends. It is clear to everyone around him but him, that marrying her was an idiotic thing, honor or not. And him "comforting her" would be him thinking with his dick. Even if i editted that part out Robb married Jeyne for her honor, not his. And he was several years younger and was "comforted" on the night he learned both his younger brothers had been killed by his best friend. He also knows what a collosal mess it has created but was naive enough to think he could fix it and starts trying to work on that from the moment he tells Catelyn that he got married. TV Robb on the other hand is older, ignores his mother's council against marrying, ignores that his bannermen don't like Talisa, does it strictly for selfish reasons, and doesn't even seem to realize that maybe he did something wrong or that his decision might be a problem. Even though the show said that the Freys gave him all their men except for a small force left behind to garrison the Twins, the show completely ignored that and never had them leave him after the wedding, and never showed them helping him or interacting with him since the bridge. The whole story line has kind of been botched. The idea that he marched his army all the way to the Crag in the far west north of Casterly Rock when he still had both the Freys AND the Karstarks and didn't think about attacking Casterly Rock, but then marched his whole army over 300 miles to an empty Harrenhal, then back to Riverrun and just now came up with the idea to attack Casterly Rock and wants the Freys to rejoin him and help is poor writing. Will non-readers even care about the Freys? Can you really blame the TV Freys for picking the Lannisters over Robb who just betrayed them and was already vastly outnumbered before losing the Karstarks (which the TV bumped up to control half of the entire northern army). In the books we have Big and Little Walder at Winterfell being jackasses. We have the Frey squire at Harrenhal mistreating Arya, when really she is the princess he was pledged to. We have Cleos Frey traveling with Jaime and Brienne and dieing. We have Walder Frey's eldest and heir dying in battle for Robb. We have a Frey squire for Robb. We have the Freys under Roose Bolton encouraging him to convince Robb to bend the knee after the Blackwater and losing Winterfell. We have Ser Perwyn Frey accompany Catelyn when she goes to see Renly. Most of these have to be cut for TV budget and casting restriction purposes, but without any of that how powerful of a "betrayal" is it really? Robb hasn't given the Freys anything and has only broken his word and they haven't had a presence on the show since season 1. TV Robb makes me a Frey sympathizer.
In the show nobody knows where the crag is. They could fix that by moving the map around, but I agree and was really surprised at this "brilliant" plan. On the other hand, it's a LOT easier to explain than the moat cailin plan.
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Germany25658 Posts
On May 01 2013 08:00 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 07:54 Conti wrote:
Oh those poor, poor souls in the other thread, talking about how the Unsullied would fare against the Westeros armies.. We'll talk again in 4 years. yeah i kinda feel bad for what they have to endure. Some of the most boring and frustrating times are ahead for those who were interested in the dany story, which after last week's epic ending, seems like there's a lot.
I actually wonder if they are going to try to spice up her story somehow. Otherwise dany will become as unpopular as she was in season 2 pretty quickly 
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On May 01 2013 10:26 KadaverBB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 08:00 Live2Win wrote:On May 01 2013 07:54 Conti wrote:
Oh those poor, poor souls in the other thread, talking about how the Unsullied would fare against the Westeros armies.. We'll talk again in 4 years. yeah i kinda feel bad for what they have to endure. Some of the most boring and frustrating times are ahead for those who were interested in the dany story, which after last week's epic ending, seems like there's a lot. I actually wonder if they are going to try to spice up her story somehow. Otherwise dany will become as unpopular as she was in season 2 pretty quickly
They already showed that they are willing to change things dramatically when the book didn't offer her much to do in season 2. In the case of season 5-6 when her story in the books is both dead and not so good it would be crazy for them to not change it again.
Maybe she keeps going and threatens Volantis. That helps set up her enmity with the free cities. Maybe the decision could also be assisted by something like avoiding having to explain the world economy and how her emancipation campaign ruins things for almost everyone else. Then something draws her back to Meereen so that pieces are in place for the big battle there. Astapor 2.0 in Meereen draws her back to try and set things 'right' maybe?
The biggest problem with the Meereenese knot is that which is indicated by GRRM walking into it despite knowing it was a problem. A few plot threads need it, more or less. It is bit hard, to put it lightly, to try to put together a good alternative.
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On May 01 2013 00:11 ACrow wrote:
In the book Jeyne's uncle (I believe? the castellan of the Crag) had a deal with Tywin; there is the theory that she herself is a spy in the series and conspired with the Lannisters. Unlikely, but not entirely impossible imo. Either way, I doubt they'll kill her off.
There's also an interesting theory that the show itself has a similar version. Talisa is possibly a Lannister spy, based on circumstantial evidence gathered from looking closely at some of her scenes. There's a YouTube video somewhere about it. It'd be curious if the show, first, could actually pull that off and, second, if it would even want to do so given what that might mean for the books.
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Crusader Kings 2 AGOT
http://i.imgur.com/2hmEVV5.jpg
"Can we make the little man fly now?"
I married Cersei to Harrold Hardyng then plotted an assassination on Robin. Tywin would've done the same, I think.
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We really shouldn't complain that the show deviates from the books. It has to as they are completely different mediums. A portrait of someone is obviously different from a photograph. The show is just a different interpretation of the books and as interpretations go, it is damn well made.
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Oh shit I just realized the significance of Arya asking Thoros if his resurrection trick works on someone who is beheaded. That's some clever foreshadowing right there.
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On May 01 2013 08:00 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 07:54 Conti wrote:
Oh those poor, poor souls in the other thread, talking about how the Unsullied would fare against the Westeros armies.. We'll talk again in 4 years. yeah i kinda feel bad for what they have to endure. Some of the most boring and frustrating times are ahead for those who were interested in the dany story, which after last week's epic ending, seems like there's a lot.
An entire book of "Just leave Meereen Dany, please.... just go. These people are idiots just..... go"
Edit: The more I think about it. The more the drowned god seems like the great other that R'hllor is opposed to
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Russian Federation59 Posts
On May 01 2013 23:22 Reval wrote:
Edit: The more I think about it. The more the drowned god seems like the great other that R'hllor is opposed to
How come? From what I understood so far, the drowned god doesn't actually exist.
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On May 01 2013 23:47 ecstazy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 23:22 Reval wrote:
Edit: The more I think about it. The more the drowned god seems like the great other that R'hllor is opposed to How come? From what I understood so far, the drowned god doesn't actually exist.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't know if any of the gods actually exist, there is just proof for different kinds of magic. For example the old gods, for all we know the weirwoods could be just a means of communication for the greenseers/children of the forest. The followers of the Lord of Light certainly seem to believe he exists, but his servants use spells after all, so are we really sure the gods are actually beings?
Anyways, it is described that krakens were seen in the west. Those would be creatures of the drowned God, no?
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Russian Federation59 Posts
On May 02 2013 00:47 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 23:47 ecstazy wrote:On May 01 2013 23:22 Reval wrote:
Edit: The more I think about it. The more the drowned god seems like the great other that R'hllor is opposed to How come? From what I understood so far, the drowned god doesn't actually exist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't know if any of the gods actually exist, there is just proof for different kinds of magic. For example the old gods, for all we know the weirwoods could be just a means of communication for the greenseers/children of the forest. The followers of the Lord of Light certainly seem to believe he exists, but his servants use spells after all, so are we really sure the gods are actually beings? Anyways, it is described that krakens were seen in the west. Those would be creatures of the drowned God, no?
They could just have developed from natural selection in westeros and belong to no god. But yeah, I agree with you. Maybe there are no gods and the children of the forest were somehow responsible for direwolves appearing etc. And maybe there is no lord of light either, just some people learning magic and then trolling everyone by portraying themselves as religious.
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Dany's problem book wise is just compounded because if you started reading at Storm of Swords or earlier, you had to wait from November of 2000 when storm was released up til July 2011 to see her story at all again in Dance and still not have her moving to Westeros. But TV viewers won't have a single season with no Dany. They may decide to make up a new story line, but I hope they do a better job than what they made up for the season 2 Dany story line.
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The problem with dany isn't just that her story is long and boring, its that she as a character is a spoiled brat. she's a female viserys, but written in a way that tries to elicit sympathy for her. the fact that her story goes fucking nowhere just compounds that.
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On May 02 2013 02:18 moopie wrote:
The problem with dany isn't just that her story is long and boring, its that she as a character is a spoiled brat. she's a female viserys, but written in a way that tries to elicit sympathy for her. the fact that her story goes fucking nowhere just compounds that.
They can always go the way of Bran and only show her once every second episode and keep it short... Really if not it could be long, or they would need to make it more obvious of Dany sinking into a deep dark rut till the dragons espace.
Emo Dany all the way!!
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On May 01 2013 11:00 LoLAdriankat wrote:Crusader Kings 2 AGOT http://i.imgur.com/2hmEVV5.jpg"Can we make the little man fly now?" I married Cersei to Harrold Hardyng then plotted an assassination on Robin. Tywin would've done the same, I think.
I
Must
Get
This
Game
NOW...
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On May 02 2013 02:13 karazax wrote:
Dany's problem book wise is just compounded because if you started reading at Storm of Swords or earlier, you had to wait from November of 2000 when storm was released up til July 2011 to see her story at all again in Dance and still not have her moving to Westeros. But TV viewers won't have a single season with no Dany. They may decide to make up a new story line, but I hope they do a better job than what they made up for the season 2 Dany story line.
You want frustration? 11 years and 3 bran chapters
At least we saw a lot of Dany during this book
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EPT
