Dr Who is a British sci fi series about a man simply called "The Doctor", who is the last of his race of Time Lords. He travels space and time in a blue 50s-era British police box, usually accompanied by a woman.
The program originally ran from 1963 to 1989, and was revived in 2005. There have been several actors playing the Doctor, something explained by the Time Lords ability to regenerate several times over their lifespan. It allows them to cheat death, but they look different and have slight personality changes as a result.
I was originally introduced to the Doctor by my roommate/best friend, and since then my brother and his best friend have all caught up on the show.
The effects are often cheesy, the acting hit and miss, but the themes are powerful. The show as a whole is at once powerful, intelligent, comedic, insightful, exciting, and heart-wrenching.
Are you currently watching the latest series? Its pretty good so far. I'm highly enjoying it. The latest episode I've seen is Amy's Choice (I'm following on BBC America).
I'm a huge Doctor Who fan. I hated Billie Piper though, and didn't really like Eccleston. Seeing that video linked by CharlieMurphy made me feel angry. Series 2-4 are much better. I'm not gay, but I could forget that for a night with David Tennant.
I've only seen a bit of the new season, I tend to spend more time online than watching television. I was pleasantly surprised by what I did see, tho, especially with the new Doctor. I had become so used to David Tennant that I was worried Matt Smith wouldn't be able to hold his own. Glad to be wrong.
The most recent series has been pretty awesome so far, its great not having the horrible writing of Richard T Davies anymore now that Moffat has taken of the duties of lead writer. I was expecting that it would take me ages for me to accept Matt Smith as the Newest Doctor, but he has been awesome pretty much throughout the current series.
Anyone interested in watching the show can just start from this year's series since it is pretty much a restart, with a new doctor and a new lead writer in charge.
I know it looks cheesy and whatnot to the people who never saw it, but trust me, once you get used to the theme of the show and the characters you'll love it for sure!
About time we got this thread. :o) Tennant made the show amazing... Smith is ok, but not quite as good and unfortuanally a show like this quickly becomes lame. - There's a fine line. If's good, it's flipping amazing; if it's bad it so so horrible!
On June 09 2010 16:47 CharlieMurphy wrote: sounds bad, checking YT for vids
cool theme
haha this show looks so bad
wtvr
Perhaps your stupidest post yet. This show is fantastic. Taking a random part of a special episode out of context to judge one of the most popular and enduring shows in tv history is really kind of absurd.
Instead, watch this episode. It's called Blink, it's written by Steven Moffat who is my personal favourite writer (and is writing every fucking episode this season!!!) and it's awesome.
Dr. Who rocks. North American TV is such rubbish. Although I can't say I'm thrilled this season, this Doctor is really very different from the rest. It's intriguing though.
Instead, watch this episode. It's called Blink, it's written by Steven Moffat who is my personal favourite writer (and is writing every fucking episode this season!!!) and it's awesome.
Moffat is fantastic n'all, but he's merely the producer of this series, and is writing a bunch of the episodes, not all of them.
Having said that the quality of the episodes has improved this season with only two duff episodes so far, IMO (The World War 2 Daleks and the Van Gogh ones, if you need to know).
The current series started really good but the last episodes were almost as bad as it gets.
And for those that think that the show is mediocre... Well, it often is, but it is simultaneously awesome in the same time (and its stupidity is often part of its charm).
Other people beside me like this show? Wow. It's great so far. I go by BBC episodes so I'm like two or three ahead of American, and I have to say I think Matt Smith might work out to be a better Doctor than...David Tennant. However, I feel that David Tennant was more fun and funny while Matt Smith is more serious.
Every show has fluff in it to help fund for the finale. So I hope that this finale will be big. As usual, a two-parter.
On 7 April 2010, the BBC announced that the fifth series would be supplemented with four "interactive episodes",[13] released online for free. They are described as "part of the Doctor Who universe", and will "go on to define the look and feel of future TV episodes." Executively produced by Moffat, Wenger and Willis with Anwen Aspden and Charles Cecil, the games are developed by Sumo Digital and written by Phil Ford and James Moran. Matt Smith and Karen Gillan provide full voiceovers for the digitalised Doctor and Amy, both of whom are playable characters. Each episode offers around two hours of gameplay.[13]
So I hope that this finale will be big. As usual, a two-parter.
I don't. I haven't liked any of the season finales so far, with the possible exception of the Chris Ecclestone one. The season finales of New Doctor Who have just been big overblown fanwank extravaganzas, each trying to outdo the previous one in sheer bigness. I much prefer my Doctor Who to be low key.
Saving three people locked in a room usually provides for better drama than saving a galaxy. Kwark linked to Blink, that episode was the el-cheapo episode of the season, where they had NO special effects at all, and where they sent the two stars of the show on holiday, and it still turned out head and shoulders above the rest of that season, thanks to Moffat's writing and the low-keyness of it all. I'd rather they skimped on the finale and made the low key budget episodes into expensive lowkey budget episodes!
Its a pretty short game, probably the same length as an episode around 45 mins. Seeing as its designed for children, the puzzles arent really that difficult. The storyline is fairly simplistic too with not as much depth as there would be in an episode. I wouldn't really recomend playing it but it is free and takes less than hour to finish so it has that in its favour at least.
Blink and the Girl in the Fireplace are my favorite two episodes. Whenever I introduce someone to Doctor Who, I show them those two episodes. They are so vastly contrasting and yet both absolutely brilliant - really demonstrates just how versatile the show is.
On June 10 2010 00:12 Juicyfruit wrote: Blink and the Girl in the Fireplace are my favorite two episodes. Whenever I introduce someone to Doctor Who, I show them those two episodes. They are so vastly contrasting and yet both absolutely brilliant - really demonstrates just how versatile the show is.
Right after watching Blink I watched The Girl in the Fireplace. Moffat is just so good.
On June 10 2010 00:22 Skvid wrote: Ah yes blink was my favorite episode as well, really awesome.
I stopped watching doctor who after Tennant left the show, the new guy seemed like a douche :|
Have you watched any of the episodes of this series?
Series or latest season? Or are you implying that i don't know what i'm talking about? Anyway, yea i watched all the episodes of "new" series that started in 2005, except for season 5.
On June 10 2010 00:32 ahswtini wrote: The weeping angels double episode this series just didn't have the same atmosphere as Blink
It's not something they can really do again. The Doctor was incapacitated unseen at the start of the episode and it was told from the perspective of a confused everywoman. They could attempt it with another monster but remaking Blink would be difficult. The way they told it was masterful though, the characters were immediate and likeable and the immersion was through the roof.
I like it how people just diss it because of poor-er special effects than stargate or star trek or whatever. I guess that most of you wouldn't be able to appreciate it even if you did give it a chance.
Just because other shows TRY to seem more realistic, they will all probably seem just as retarded 50 years from now. So if you think this is "star trek for people with frontal lobotomy", then maybe you're the one that needs a brain check.
Either way, this has the same appeal that Jekyll had on me. I like the stories, the actors, the way they handle continuation and the lack of serious plot holes. It's also funny and bearable to watch unlike most other SF shows out there. I'd give it an 8/10.
Personally I'd go with Stargate: Atlantis over this for best sci-fi since 2k5, I've tried watching Who and I just can't get into, I can't quite put my finger on it, and its not the special effects for me like many have said.
On June 10 2010 05:48 SichuanPanda wrote: Personally I'd go with Stargate: Atlantis over this for best sci-fi since 2k5, I've tried watching Who and I just can't get into, I can't quite put my finger on it, and its not the special effects for me like many have said.
Well, more power to you. It's not for everyone. I was a huge fan of SG1, but though Atlantis was just ok. I hear good things about Universe from the thread in this forum, tho, so I might end up checking that out.
watchin blink and at the end those people have a file of all the information about the angels and guess what they have a picture of an angel, and apparently in this season the said any image of an angel becomes an angel itself always fun to find flaws when new stuff is flung in.
Just love this show! And agreed, David Tennant is the best Doctor in the 2005 series. Simply because he gets worked up about stuff, talking faster and faster .. so funny! Though I don't like Billie Piper I enjoyed Christopher Eccleston in season one. But maybe thats just because of the glorious quote: "Nice to meet you, Rose. Run for your life!" Oh, and also I like leather jackets ^^ In my mind, Matt Smith does a great job following in Tennants huuge footsteps. He plays his role very nicely without overdoing it. So thumbs up, Matt!
@Ota: I have no idea if it's streamed anywhere, but the entire series, from the 60s onward, is available on torrents.
@phyvo: I've not watched any of the old series. My best friend has torrented much of the episodes from back then, and is in the middle of watching Tom Baker's tenure as the Doctor. Loves it.
On June 11 2010 00:13 phyvo wrote: A Dr. Who thread and all most people can talk about is the new doctors. v.v
I'm sorry, but I (and I guess a lot of the other members) wasn't actually born when the original series aired ... I'm currently trying to catch up, but it's so hard to get those episodes, especially because a lot of them were lost due to deleting/bad storing by BBC. If you know a good spot to get/see the original series, I would greatly appreciate a heads up.
"Blink" is one of the greatest 1 hour television shows of all time imo. Time loop story, oscar nominee cast member (who's hot btw) and genuinely scary.
You owe it to yourself to watch it, even if you ever watch any other doctor who.
Wait, what? A fire? When was this? What is recent or was it awhile ago? Because my mother still has virtually every 3rd and 4th doctor episode on tape, and if the fire was recent and they're having these problems then I wonder if she might have something fairly valuable.
Fellow: I wasn't born back then either, but it helps to have a mother who's a scifi affectionado. Between Star Trek original, Trek TNG, The Outer Limits, Twilight Zone, and Dr. Who my experience with current scifi hits has actually been very limited. In general my parents have given me a great appreciation of the good classics from days of yore.
My mother got most of what she has currently by recording broadcasts and buying the occasional DVD box set, so I'm not sure I can help you there.
I was a HUGE fan of the show until David Tennent quit. This awful Matt Smith guy really just doesn't act like the doctor should. I think I've literally seen every single episode through seasons 1-4, but I've given up on the show now. The really inconsistent writing and now awful actors has scared me off.
Also, I am personally offended that you didn't spell out Doctor in the title of this thread. That "Dr" just hurts my soul every time I look at it.
Thats sad ... I tried a while ago to torrent some of the original series but ended up canceling it, because it was just so damn slow. Honestly, it took about 6h to load one 20min episode.
phyvo, I'm actually watching TheNextGeneration right know, the visual effects are just funny But a cool show, I quite enjoy it. Did you see the rather new StarTrek:Enterprise series?
Yeah, TNG can have some pretty cheesy effects sometimes. I've watched a teeny bit of the newer ST series but I don't remember too much about it except that it didn't seem too bad.
On June 11 2010 20:15 ThatMaskedFellow wrote: Thats sad ... I tried a while ago to torrent some of the original series but ended up canceling it, because it was just so damn slow. Honestly, it took about 6h to load one 20min episode.
phyvo, I'm actually watching TheNextGeneration right know, the visual effects are just funny But a cool show, I quite enjoy it. Did you see the rather new StarTrek:Enterprise series?
Star Trek Enterprise is a banned series... we do not mention it in these parts.
The new episodes are getting better thanks in part to Moffat getting promoted and Matt Smith's acting. I love this rip in time arc.
I felt like the last episode, Cold Blood, tried to do too much story in too small of a time. It just felt wrong for some reason.
Anyone think they're making this season a bit too much about Amy? Doctor hasn't had any time to recover from what happened at the end of Tennant's run, and while it's showing (Dream Lord, "why does everyone expect me to know everything?", etc), the episodes are very Amy-centric.
Can't wait till Amy is gone to be honest, she just annoys the hell out of me and takes up more screen time than the freakin doctor (who is pretty darn good!). Good episode in all, hopefully Amy gets written out in the finale.
Yeah, Amy is hot and all but it feels like we haven't got to have known the new doctor much, although that could be because this season seems to be focused around Amy anyway
On June 20 2010 03:35 ToT)OjKa( wrote: Yeah, Amy is hot and all but it feels like we haven't got to have known the new doctor much, although that could be because this season seems to be focused around Amy anyway
Yeah, seriously. I really like the new doctor at times but they haven't been developing his character much at all beyond what Tennant did as the 10th doctor. Amy they're just playing up to be the next Rose although this time there will be a happy ending.
I wasn't convinced by tonights episode to be honest. It was obvious what was going to happen 30 minutes before it happened and the whole alliance bs annoyed me. I'd have been way happier if just one evil race tricked the doctor. Would have been a cool spin on the classic myth.
On June 20 2010 07:26 KwarK wrote: I wasn't convinced by tonights episode to be honest. It was obvious what was going to happen 30 minutes before it happened and the whole alliance bs annoyed me. I'd have been way happier if just one evil race tricked the doctor. Would have been a cool spin on the classic myth.
I quite liked it, only i thought it would of been better if they put him there just becuase hes the doctor, not because of the Tardis exploding, would of given a better impact. And i thought the whole unlocking from the inside kinda threw me off so i didn't realize it was going to be him, i thought it was going to be Amy actually, which would of been cool, although i guess thats to similar to rose's storyline.
On June 10 2010 00:22 Skvid wrote: Ah yes blink was my favorite episode as well, really awesome.
I stopped watching doctor who after Tennant left the show, the new guy seemed like a douche :|
Have you watched any of the episodes of this series?
Series or latest season? Or are you implying that i don't know what i'm talking about? Anyway, yea i watched all the episodes of "new" series that started in 2005, except for season 5.
In the UK, a season of a show is referred to as a series, while in the U.S. a series means the show itself. It's a bit confusing. He meant that since you haven't watched anything from series 5, you don't have a leg to stand on while badmouthing the new doctor (who many feel is almost as good as, just as good as, or even better than Tennant). Steven Moffat is definitely the better writer, though! Only a few duds so far, not bad.
On June 20 2010 07:26 KwarK wrote: I wasn't convinced by tonights episode to be honest. It was obvious what was going to happen 30 minutes before it happened and the whole alliance bs annoyed me. I'd have been way happier if just one evil race tricked the doctor. Would have been a cool spin on the classic myth.
I quite liked it, only i thought it would of been better if they put him there just becuase hes the doctor, not because of the Tardis exploding, would of given a better impact. And i thought the whole unlocking from the inside kinda threw me off so i didn't realize it was going to be him, i thought it was going to be Amy actually, which would of been cool, although i guess thats to similar to rose's storyline.
I watched Dr Who Confidential after and it showed a lot of the scenes where the doctor is describing what could be in it. It just matches perfectly as to himself
On June 20 2010 07:26 KwarK wrote: I wasn't convinced by tonights episode to be honest. It was obvious what was going to happen 30 minutes before it happened and the whole alliance bs annoyed me. I'd have been way happier if just one evil race tricked the doctor. Would have been a cool spin on the classic myth.
I quite liked it, only i thought it would of been better if they put him there just becuase hes the doctor, not because of the Tardis exploding, would of given a better impact. And i thought the whole unlocking from the inside kinda threw me off so i didn't realize it was going to be him, i thought it was going to be Amy actually, which would of been cool, although i guess thats to similar to rose's storyline.
I watched Dr Who Confidential after and it showed a lot of the scenes where the doctor is describing what could be in it. It just matches perfectly as to himself
I think Matt Smith is really playing this incredibly similarly to Tennant which is fine with me since I really liked him. The episode from a couple of days ago was good imo... I wouldn't have bought the alliance if it weren't for Doctor being the apparent culprit of impending doom... and I don't think he could have been tricked by just one race. Where I stand on the different aliens uniting is... going to depends on how it plays out I guess.
I was a bit disappointed, mostly because of all the epicness packed in the previous episode so that it was impossible for the finale to live up to it. Nevertheless, it was a good end to an overall good series. + Show Spoiler +
But come on, reviving both Amy and Rory? They could have at least killed River and made the Doctor all depressed about losing someone he never really had or something like that... Oh, and Amy got to have a family as well. I don't expect it to be all grim and depressing but they could have given me at least a little bit of death and tragedy.
Okay, I read the DW wiki and it said that the Time Lord created the weeping angels, but it seems I have missed that part, can someone enlighten me how did they do it
On June 27 2010 11:24 xtfftc wrote: I was a bit disappointed, mostly because of all the epicness packed in the previous episode so that it was impossible for the finale to live up to it. Nevertheless, it was a good end to an overall good series. + Show Spoiler +
But come on, reviving both Amy and Rory? They could have at least killed River and made the Doctor all depressed about losing someone he never really had or something like that... Oh, and Amy got to have a family as well. I don't expect it to be all grim and depressing but they could have given me at least a little bit of death and tragedy.
I felt the opposite - I thought the penultimate ep was rather loose and scattered (until they reveal what the Pandorica is for) and that the finale was much more exciting and together.
Season finale was a little rushed. Although they did manage to get nice closure. I was a bigger fan of the sad endings of the previous seasons although I still like the happy wedding ending of this season.
On June 27 2010 20:18 ahswtini wrote: So now we know why the Doctor had his jacket back on in the angels episode, when everyone thought it was a continuity error
Just brilliant. The main storyline has been just brilliant so far, even though some of the episodes were rather disappointing (The Hungry Earth / Cold Blood for example).
On June 27 2010 22:47 Ianuus wrote: Killing off River? Silence in the Library.
Don't get me wrong, I love the way their story is going so far. + Show Spoiler +
But it would have been awesome to put an abrupt ending to it, especially when it was obvious that it's going to stretch to for at least one more season.
I'm watching season 1 from the 1960s and it's surprising how similar it is in many respects to today's shows... and in some respects how different the doctor's character is.
Just watched all of Moffat's episodes and enjoyed them a lot - and I definitely want more. Has anyone watched Jekyll? He is the main writer, so I hope that it's worth it.
Nice finale .. even though the second part war kind of predictable. But the ending (despite being overly happy) was satisfying.
On June 28 2010 12:56 gyth wrote: Did river remind anyone else of empire strikes back? dressed like leia, acted like han??
Anyone ever noticed the similarities between Amy and Elaine Marley .. maybe better known as Elaine Marley-Threepwood? Read hair, feisty, always wearing a scarf... It's uncanny!
Haha. Season 5 was alright as a whole. Amy pond was hot, and the Doctor, while not as good as Tennant was atleast twice as better as Eccleston in the 1st Season.
Cant wait for next season still though although it looks like Amy, Rory, and the Doctor keep going?
I wonder how many eps (or possibly minutes) into the special or next season it will be until they kill Rory again... he's like the Kenny McCormick of the last few episodes.
I really hope they don't "almost kill off but miraculously resuscitate" a main character for a while. A little overused between the Dream Lord, second Reptilia, and finale episodes. Amy dies once, Rory twice, River once, and even the Doctor once. That's FIVE main character "deaths" in as many episodes.
me me like to watch the Prisoner. I think that is the name. about the british secret agent who resigns and then gets drugged and dragged of to an unknown island "resort" for unpersons.
David Tennant was the shits, I mean he was a really damn good actor, while Matt Smith is kinda cheesy, in a good way, which I think suits the show more, but after we've seen a great Doctor it kinda sad to see him go :/
David Tennant was fantastic as The Doctor. Smith is ok, but after 3 seasons of tennant i felt so bad to see him go . I just finished The Pandorica or w/e it was called (ep 12). Is that the most recent episode?
Yeah, only 12 this season which is unfortunate. I quite like Smith because through his eccentricity he in some way humanises The Doctor. It's difficult to explain. Tennant was so awesome that he wasn't relatable, he was like a superhero. Smith's Doctor is clearly not a superhuman, he's a mad Gallifreyan but that madness is like a weakness which makes him relatable. Stressing his alien nature humanises him.
On July 19 2010 04:50 KwarK wrote: Yeah, only 12 this season which is unfortunate. I quite like Smith because through his eccentricity he in some way humanises The Doctor. It's difficult to explain. Tennant was so awesome that he wasn't relatable, he was like a superhero. Smith's Doctor is clearly not a superhuman, he's a mad Gallifreyan but that madness is like a weakness which makes him relatable. Stressing his alien nature humanises him.
Well put. For me Tennant was too comfortable in the role. His confidence on screen gave him this invincible quality and because of that he never looked in danger. Usually screen presence is a great quality but Doctor Who is not supposed to be easy to relate too. He's almost a peripheral main character.
being locked into the pandamicron or whatever its called by the daleks, cyber men, the pig dudes in that alliance they formed
Gonna get episode list to figure out what im missing.
There's like one, maybe two after that. Apparently they continue the story with a few online games or something, according to my friend.
Yeah, only 12 this season which is unfortunate. I quite like Smith because through his eccentricity he in some way humanises The Doctor. It's difficult to explain. Tennant was so awesome that he wasn't relatable, he was like a superhero. Smith's Doctor is clearly not a superhuman, he's a mad Gallifreyan but that madness is like a weakness which makes him relatable. Stressing his alien nature humanises him.
That's a good observation, I think. He does seem more fragile this season... perhaps because The Doctor is recovering from the events directly preceding it? From what I recall, he's not had any kind of chance of dealing with what happened at the end of Tennant's run, and suddenly there's the Amy/tear problem, and River shows up. Kind of a lot to deal with, even apparently for a Time Lord.
My girlfriend is a Dr Who fanatic, while I've never been a fan. Recently we agreed on a trade where she'll watch Entourage (which she has never really given a go) if I'll watch Dr Who. I've gotta say that after seeing a couple of episodes I'm starting to enjoy it.. or at least not dislike it heh.
The singing scenes were directed in a really bad way and the counter thing was rather stupid.. But still, combining the Three Ghosts of Christmas and time travel. I don't usually get excited about Christmassy things but this one was as good as they get imo. Especially compared to the previous Christmas specials.
On December 27 2010 08:04 kerpal wrote: seriously? gaiman? that's awesome. love doctor who.
Yep. 1, 2, and 7 are written by Moffat, 3 by Gaiman, 4 by Mark Gatiss and 5 and 6 by Matthew Graham. Just seven episodes but this is not necessarily a bad thing, especially in the light of some of the filler episodes from last season.
I think it is worthwhile to bump this thread informing every dr who fan that Season 6 Just started and Episode 2 of the new season aired earlier today in the UK. I am currently catching up and would love to post back here to discuss Smith and his second season on the show :D
Was two pretty good episodes, especially the second. I think matt smith just makes doctor who for me now, much better than the last doctor, and probably better than eccleston too. Personally i don't understand the tennant love, coupled with the horrible writing he got, and a poor sidekick, he just overacted everything, like he was playing macbeth on the stage or something. He didn't have that loveable bumbling fool act which matt smith has re-captured, seeming to not being really with it, but subtly a genius underneath with a master plan always up his sleeve, who was always actually in control. But still manages to convey the doctors amazement with the universe and people/the human race without looking like hes trying to give another over the top cheesy Oscar moment like tenant did almost every episode. Then again i think tennant probably was more popular overseas, particularly America, because you seem to like your drama and comedy more direct(perhaps even cheesy) and less subtle like us brits most of the time, altho i do acknowledge a lot of brits like him too.
A good start for the 6th series and the method used to beat + Show Spoiler +
The Silence
was just awesome.
I find Matt Smith's portrayal of the Doctor to be quite good. He isn't like the Tenth Doctor but then again why should he? Every Doctor is different and this is the case with the Eleventh. I hope he gets a fez now though.
Honnestly the first episode of the 6th series was really iffy for me and I was not that happy with it, but the second episode more then makes up with it. It was insanely cool how they stylized how scary the Silence was and how the body marks worked.
When I started it and saw Amy, River and Tory with thoses marks I thouht it was the number of days they where on the run or something but it was really surprising. Still a bit confused on how Humans got hold of Black Dwarf Star material for the jail... I'm really curious whom supplied them with it, the Silence perhaps?
I so much want to know about the ending in particular. It just kickes up insane theories in my head. There is also the issue that The Doctor forgot something that he and River have since with the kiss or is it simply due to the reverse timeline. I would think River would know that by now but I maybe not.
I like how the story is continuing certain aspects from last season and I heard 1-2 ideas from Moffat episodes in series 4.
I don't think you should see them as seperate episodes, the story in both episodes combines was awesome.
To be honest I think the Doctor just doesn't realise yet that him and River are meeting in the wrong order. From what I understand from interviews we'll be finding out a lot about River this season though
I think perhaps the death of the eleventh doctor wasn't a true death of the doctor. I think perhaps since regeneration was stopped using an existing body (smiths body) the doctor's soul or whatever you would like to call it was transferred into Amy's body when she was crying over him in the first episode. I don't see them procreating any other way and this would help to explain both the daughter and pregnancy of amy as well as the fact that her apparent daughter is able to regenerate a la timelord. The stopping of using an existing body meant the doctor had to regenerate into a new body. This may be an interesting way to get a Woman doctor to take the place of a male doctor in our current gender equal day and age
While like most viewers of this generations doctor who, I liked David Tennant's performance the best. Though i think Matt Smith is doing a great job, and really don't see the hate his getting, he channels the doctors energy extremely well and i gotta admit i like the overall flow of the 5th series a lot more so far. I think the show went downhill ever since the departure of Rose, i really didn't care for any of the 10th doctor's other companions, especially not Donna, she was annoying as all hell, though they did share some of the best episodes together, I'd just much rather have seen Rose in that position than her.
It's good to see a bunch of fellow Time Lords on these boards!
Anyway, massive Doctor Who-fanatic here. Last series had it ups and downs, where the downs was terrible, while the ups was absolutely fantastic. The overall storyarc and the execution of it made it perhaps the best series yet, since the reboot. Don't get me wrong, I love every single season of Doctor Who, but there's no denying RTD(former writer) botched alot of episodes.
To put it lightly, I have extremely high expectations for series 6. The first episode was kind of hard to swallow, but the way it was tied together in yesterdays episode made me think my expectations might be met. The Silence has the potential to be the sickest thing this show has ever produced. Moffat knows his stuff. Yesterdays episode was just as suspenseful and scary as Blink (reboots best episode), especially the part in the orphanage.
As for the cliffhanger I simply can't speculate, there's just to many options.
Though, I really hope it has something to do with + Show Spoiler +
Oh my god I had no idea this thread existed. Makes me so happy. :D
Anywho (see what I did there!?), I can't believe when talking about the most recent episode nobody brings up the strange woman who opened the slot in the nursery door. "She's still dreaming." WTF was that? It made no sense in the context of everything else we've seen in the first two episodes. It brings up the possibility of everything being linked to the "Dream Lord" episode in season 5, in which case, wooooooaaaaahhhh.
There's some pretty big stuff at work here, but if anyone can bring it all together, it's Moffat. I love the more serious direction this season is taking, because we all know that the threat of the death of the Doctor is looming at the end. I can't wait to see more.
I'm a huge Doctor Who fan. I hated Billie Piper though, and didn't really like Eccleston. Seeing that video linked by CharlieMurphy made me feel angry. Series 2-4 are much better. I'm not gay, but I could forget that for a night with David Tennant.
I prefer the Orbital version myself. Maybe that's because I saw it performed live and it was awesome
Did anyone other than me think the Silence looked like Protoss in suits? Hopefully this isn't something you can't unsee, either way, it made it hard to take too seriously.
Also despite the Protoss making a guest appearance the 1st and 2nd episodes are pretty awesome. So many questions being raised, especially with the end of episode 2. Awesome stuff.
Just watched the latest episodes. Have to say, I haven't been so scared of life in general since my first watching of Marble Hornets/Reading all the Slenderman creepypastas
Just something about faceless things in suits with the power to just show up out of nowhere and make you wet yourself that really gets to me. Which is why Im now sat here too scared to go downstairs to the bathroom whilst really needing a pee. Is thunder/lightning going on this evening, lots of rain and the everyone else is asleep which doesn't help the situation.
I think perhaps the death of the eleventh doctor wasn't a true death of the doctor. I think perhaps since regeneration was stopped using an existing body (smiths body) the doctor's soul or whatever you would like to call it was transferred into Amy's body when she was crying over him in the first episode. I don't see them procreating any other way and this would help to explain both the daughter and pregnancy of amy as well as the fact that her apparent daughter is able to regenerate a la timelord. The stopping of using an existing body meant the doctor had to regenerate into a new body. This may be an interesting way to get a Woman doctor to take the place of a male doctor in our current gender equal day and age
It's fairly obvious that they are starting to play up friction with Amy and Rory. There is also a fairly significant intentional gaps with which we are left to play on. I mean "The Silence" are effectively capable of generating huge gaps in both the characters memories that could go pretty far and there are pretty big gaps we just didn't see. Also doesn't quite explain why the Alien knows so much about her being pregnant in the first episode.
I just find it cruel and brilliant how they show that the girl has something to do with the doctor... Since now we effectively know nothing of what she will look like... other than you might be able to cheat and look at who wrote the episode and look for young girls.
Great episode... I just wonder how the HELL they manage to keep timelines relatively clean or making sense, River Song can make your mind twist a few ways.
I think perhaps the death of the eleventh doctor wasn't a true death of the doctor. I think perhaps since regeneration was stopped using an existing body (smiths body) the doctor's soul or whatever you would like to call it was transferred into Amy's body when she was crying over him in the first episode. I don't see them procreating any other way and this would help to explain both the daughter and pregnancy of amy as well as the fact that her apparent daughter is able to regenerate a la timelord. The stopping of using an existing body meant the doctor had to regenerate into a new body. This may be an interesting way to get a Woman doctor to take the place of a male doctor in our current gender equal day and age
It would be in conflict with the series' own logic. I hope Moffat doesn't go for that kind of solution with the little girl as it would be hard to swallow for many of the show's fans.
On May 02 2011 08:30 Attican wrote: Did anyone other than me think the Silence looked like Protoss in suits? Hopefully this isn't something you can't unsee, either way, it made it hard to take too seriously.
Also despite the Protoss making a guest appearance the 1st and 2nd episodes are pretty awesome. So many questions being raised, especially with the end of episode 2. Awesome stuff.
uh...no just you.
I haven't seen anyone say this it isn't a spoiler it is just a different take on ''the silence'' but I'll spoiler it anyway
We've heard often enough ''the silence will fall'' but this could mean two things One, it could mean that the silence fall down from the sky and start to conquer everything which is what appears to be implied. Two it could also mean that the civilization of the silence will collapse and that causes all sorts of problems. I don't think that is very likely though as the fish queen of venice what's-her-face seems to be terrified when she says ''through some cracks we saw the silence'' which doesn't exactly make sense if the silence weren't bad
On May 02 2011 19:17 valheru wrote: ''the silence will fall''
I think the current story about the Silence wasn't thought of yet at that point. In the first few episodes of season 5 when they talk about the silence it's actually about silence, it's not untill the later episodes that silence gets sort of a double meaning.
I generally tell myself I'm going to wait until the season is over so I can get the whole thing in one swoop, but I just can't...I need my fix! Great season so far.
Loved it. Gonna start thinking of the Tardis as a woman from now on rather than just a fancy 'blue box'. I hope they somehow keep her back in (as a personality) in future episodes.
incredible episode, has neil gaiman all over it. mysterious woman, quietly menacing and unaccountably evil bad guy, mystic labyrinths and patchwork people, not to mention so much sexual tension that the whole thing is vaguely arousing...
On May 15 2011 21:00 Aim Here wrote: "Biting's excellent. It's like kissing, but there's a winner!"
Hehe, I also like the bit where the TARDIS says; "you never read the instructions, what does it say on my door?" Doctor: "Pull to open" TARDIS: "Yes and what do you do?" Doctor: "I push!"
Great episode and the next one looks fantastic too. The producer is a family friend and she assures us that the next episode is really scary, even by Doctor Who standards.
"I'm a crazy man with a box, without a box!" was an excellent line. Steven Moffat is an excellent writer, all the episodes so far have been great. The line about the water in the forest could turn in to something interesting...
http://video.uk.msn.com/search/doctor who (UK only). No idea why it's there, but the website (MSN video) was linked by the BBC website, so as far as I can tell it's legit, and also it's region locked.
Moffat didn't write the last one, it was Neil Gaiman Love that man, and loved the episode. I really like Matt Smith as the Doctor and he is ably supported by River, Amy and (I guess) Rory (although Rory is growing on me) - their interactions make this Doctor. This was my favourite episode so far for Smith - more of the same, please.
On May 20 2011 07:22 Cheeznuklz wrote: Apart from the Van Gough episode I think this last one was the best of the 11th doctor. The pirate ship one was a real stinker IMO.
I liked the pirate ship though agreed it wasn't the best episode out there :p
Recently saw Blink on TV again and man did I enjoy it :D
Looking forward to next weeks episode. And I am envious of the one who posted earlier saying a producer is a family friend :p you get all the inside info I'm sure about good or bad episodes incoming.
On May 20 2011 09:05 Alou wrote: Pirate episode was just filler really. Nice self contained adventure.
Isn't that the case for the majority of the episodes? Very few episodes actually progress the overall arcing story much. And first two episodes of this latest season were quite creepy o_o.
Doctor who was good for the first view seasons. But after so many change in writers, it's kinda trailed off to the point that the series' are constantly repeating previous monsters etc, but "wrongly" if you understand me, like in-consistent to the originals. As well as this, I think after anticipated leave of David Tennant, Matt Smith just doesn't seem to show the similar emotion and passion the scott had :/
On May 29 2011 09:48 Ge0Rob wrote: Doctor who was good for the first view seasons. But after so many change in writers, it's kinda trailed off to the point that the series' are constantly repeating previous monsters etc, but "wrongly" if you understand me, like in-consistent to the originals. As well as this, I think after anticipated leave of David Tennant, Matt Smith just doesn't seem to show the similar emotion and passion the scott had :/
Doctor Who has always had multiple writers. What monsters are repeated? Or are inconsistent? Tennant was a frickin great Doctor, but eventually he had to leave. That's just how it works. Personally I like Smith because he can extremely silly. I've yet to see him angry, so I haven't seen his range yet, but I'm guessing its up to par. I just wish he had more "catchphrases" than "geronimo", "_____s are cool", and "Basically... run."
Doctor says to the ganger "only you are not invited to it" when they are talking about their respective deaths at the end of the episode, leading me to believe it was her telling the real doctor.
How long has amy not been amy?! I can't remember the first time that that creepy woman appeared in a wall. Seems a long time ago, at least the beginning of thise series, maybe even before?
On May 29 2011 09:48 Ge0Rob wrote: Doctor who was good for the first view seasons. But after so many change in writers, it's kinda trailed off to the point that the series' are constantly repeating previous monsters etc, but "wrongly" if you understand me, like in-consistent to the originals. As well as this, I think after anticipated leave of David Tennant, Matt Smith just doesn't seem to show the similar emotion and passion the scott had :/
I disagree. I really like Matt Smith, more than I liked David Tennant. And as for no new monsters, the Silence (Silents?) are pretty cool (and no, I don't think they're just the Weeping Angels redux, like some people do). As for "so many change in writers" the writers are mostly the same, Steven Moffat has just replaced Russell Davies as exec producer, and Moffat has been a writer since the beginning with Eccleston.
I guess its really just a matter of preference. Matt Smith is different from Tennant. Some people will inevitably prefer one or the other.
David Tennant is imo a better actor but Matt Smith is greater at showing us what a Doctor is. I love them both but I agree, Tennant has to leave someday, and the way he leaves the series is exactly when he needed to. Matt Smith gave fresh air after a depressive in-between series 4-5 episodes.
And about series 6, I'm not that impressed with independant episodes atm (except the Doctor's Wife one), but they don't suck either, and Moffat did a great job at giving us chills with little clues of the plot bit by bit.
Cybermen ! Who is River ? All about Amy ! Holy shit it's gonna be good, except the fact the double episode will be cut in two part with the second one on september.
Cybermen ! Who is River ? All about Amy ! Holy shit it's gonna be good, except the fact the double episode will be cut in two part with the second one on september.
"Push Amy, but only when she tells you to." ? 'cause he is the Flesh too, he probably knows about her, and because the real Doctor already knows she's the Flesh.
"Push Amy, but only when she tells you to." ? 'cause he is the Flesh too, he probably knows about her, and because the real Doctor already knows she's the Flesh.
He said this.
Also for the David Tennant vs Matt Smith discussion, i think both of them are absolutely amazing. Tennant was there a bit too long, meaning if he's in another movie now, everyone will think Doctor Who. I think it kills some of his opportunities, but that's m ore of a concern for the actor, rather than something i find bad. Math Smith is bloody beautiful and he fits the role really well imo. Was a little questionable at first but i've grown to like him.
I was a huge Tennant fan, was so sad when he left. But Smith has been doing amazing, great choice as a replacement and infinitely better than Eccleston.
So he knows he is going to die now, I wonder how it's all going to play out.
On May 29 2011 22:18 TMStarcraft wrote: I was a huge Tennant fan, was so sad when he left. But Smith has been doing amazing, great choice as a replacement and infinitely better than Eccleston.
Eccleston was the 1st doctor after the series restarted, and most of the episodes weren't that good. I feel that Eccleston would have made a great doctor if he stayed for few extra seasons
On May 29 2011 22:18 TMStarcraft wrote:So he knows he is going to die now, I wonder how it's all going to play out.
I still call Shenanigans (great word by the way) on him dying, at first I thought it'd be a vanilla "timey-wimy" thing but now... + Show Spoiler +
Given there's the chance of a ganger doctor a la "Your molecular memory could still survive this you know" that's an option too.
Yeah I can see your point in the spoiler. But I'm still curious as to whether + Show Spoiler +
the ganger doctor mentioned something about the doctor dying to the original doctor since Amy did tell the ganger doctor about "dying twice" more than once in the episode
Also did anyone else think the end to saturday's episode was CRAZY!? I did not expect that to happen at all and it kinda makes sense now about the scans being performed earlier in the series.
Well I'm still confused at when Amy could have been changed with the ganger, however wow cybermen, Legionnaire Rory, and finally an explanation of whats happening to Amy, going to be a great episode.
too much talk about the reincarnated series here, but i proudly say
TOM BAKER IS MY DOCTOR
seriously , apart from a few highlights (Blink , School reunion) the writing is sub par compared to the classic series. (watch Genesis of the Daleks or Pyramids of Mars if you dont belive me)
On May 29 2011 22:18 TMStarcraft wrote:So he knows he is going to die now, I wonder how it's all going to play out.
I still call Shenanigans (great word by the way) on him dying, at first I thought it'd be a vanilla "timey-wimy" thing but now... + Show Spoiler +
Given there's the chance of a ganger doctor a la "Your molecular memory could still survive this you know" that's an option too.
Yeah I can see your point in the spoiler. But I'm still curious as to whether + Show Spoiler +
the ganger doctor mentioned something about the doctor dying to the original doctor since Amy did tell the ganger doctor about "dying twice" more than once in the episode
Also did anyone else think the end to saturday's episode was CRAZY!? I did not expect that to happen at all and it kinda makes sense now about the scans being performed earlier in the series.
On May 29 2011 23:33 Irratonalys wrote: too much talk about the reincarnated series here, but i proudly say
TOM BAKER IS MY DOCTOR
seriously , apart from a few highlights (Blink , School reunion) the writing is sub par compared to the classic series. (watch Genesis of the Daleks or Pyramids of Mars if you dont belive me)
As someone who has watched the old series and the new series. I have to say I enjoy the new one much more.
On May 29 2011 23:27 NoobieOne wrote: Well I'm still confused at when Amy could have been changed with the ganger, however wow cybermen, Legionnaire Rory, and finally an explanation of whats happening to Amy, going to be a great episode.
General consensus seems to be that the Amy in the Impossible Astronaut that told the Doctor she was pregnant is real, and that she must've been switched in the 3 months on the run from the Silence, possibly when she was kidnapped at the orphanage.
I personally think the Silence are going to come back bigger and badder than in those two episodes. After all the fuss over the Silence in Season 5, is that really how they're gonna end that little story? There's got to be more to them.
On May 29 2011 22:18 TMStarcraft wrote:So he knows he is going to die now, I wonder how it's all going to play out.
I still call Shenanigans (great word by the way) on him dying, at first I thought it'd be a vanilla "timey-wimy" thing but now... + Show Spoiler +
Given there's the chance of a ganger doctor a la "Your molecular memory could still survive this you know" that's an option too.
Yeah I can see your point in the spoiler. But I'm still curious as to whether + Show Spoiler +
the ganger doctor mentioned something about the doctor dying to the original doctor since Amy did tell the ganger doctor about "dying twice" more than once in the episode
Also did anyone else think the end to saturday's episode was CRAZY!? I did not expect that to happen at all and it kinda makes sense now about the scans being performed earlier in the series.
General consensus seems to be that the Amy in the Impossible Astronaut that told the Doctor she was pregnant is real, and that she must've been switched in the 3 months on the run from the Silence, possibly when she was kidnapped at the orphanage.
I personally think the Silence are going to come back bigger and badder than in those two episodes. After all the fuss over the Silence in Season 5, is that really how they're gonna end that little story? There's got to be more to them.
I agree with you for Amy, the sequence at the orphanage is the one where Amy was probably kidnapped. For the Silence, we'll them later, but not that soon I believe, probably in the end of the season is my guess.
Too many questions will be answered, like the secret of who is River Song.
General consensus seems to be that the Amy in the Impossible Astronaut that told the Doctor she was pregnant is real, and that she must've been switched in the 3 months on the run from the Silence, possibly when she was kidnapped at the orphanage.
I personally think the Silence are going to come back bigger and badder than in those two episodes. After all the fuss over the Silence in Season 5, is that really how they're gonna end that little story? There's got to be more to them.
I agree with you for Amy, the sequence at the orphanage is the one where Amy was probably kidnapped. For the Silence, we'll them later, but not that soon I believe, probably in the end of the season is my guess.
Too many questions will be answered, like the secret of who is River Song.
Exactly. Notice that in Impossible Astronaut Amy said she was pregnant, and in the end of Day of the Moon she said she was no longer pregnant. However she also sees the midwife-eyepatch-woman halfway through the orphanage before she is kidnapped, suggesting that she was actually switched at some point during the ~3 months not shown.
Love Doctor Who, anyone who doesn't give it the time of day because of the occasional cheesiness and silliness has let the child inside them die.
Tennant was great n all but given how awful I found his last series, and that he'd become a parody of himself quite often, I wasn't sad to see his run end. Matt Smith is terrific, plays it more excitable and odd but also more arrogant and, occasionally, cold.
I feel like too much is being left unexplained, to the extent that it's just confusing and a bit annoying. And too many things feel unsubtle, like the Doctor looking at the 'negative/positive' reading for Amy's pregnancy test every episode; WE GET IT DON'T BEAT US ROUND THE HEAD WITH IT. And in the latest episode, why the fuck did Amy go and tell what she thought was the ganger Doctor that she had seen the Doctor die? It makes no sense. 'Oh I've upset the ganger I'd better go tell him about how I got invited to see the Doctor's death.'
Other than that enjoying it.
P.S. Amy is fucking hot. Just getting that out there.
On May 30 2011 04:17 The KY wrote: Love Doctor Who, anyone who doesn't give it the time of day because of the occasional cheesiness and silliness has let the child inside them die.
Tennant was great n all but given how awful I found his last series, and that he'd become a parody of himself quite often, I wasn't sad to see his run end. Matt Smith is terrific, plays it more excitable and odd but also more arrogant and, occasionally, cold.
I feel like too much is being left unexplained, to the extent that it's just confusing and a bit annoying. And too many things feel unsubtle, like the Doctor looking at the 'negative/positive' reading for Amy's pregnancy test every episode; WE GET IT DON'T BEAT US ROUND THE HEAD WITH IT. And in the latest episode, why the fuck did Amy go and tell what she thought was the ganger Doctor that she had seen the Doctor die? It makes no sense. 'Oh I've upset the ganger I'd better go tell him about how I got invited to see the Doctor's death.'
Other than that enjoying it.
P.S. Amy is fucking hot. Just getting that out there.
Amy holds the Doctor in the utmost regard, and would tell him anything since he knows everything. But she can't talk to him about his death, she was sworn to secrecy. The one person she wants to talk to, and she can't. But what would be the next best thing? The ganger - all of the Doctor's intelligence, he might be able to think of something. Or maybe he offers a way out: she saw A Doctor die, maybe not THE. That's how I saw it, anyways.
And yes, Amy is hot. Ginger often is (on girls ).
Also at the guy who said Tom Baker was his Doctor - I'm guessing you enjoyed his tiny cameo in the latest episode? :D Always loved him.
On May 30 2011 20:19 Sanctimonius wrote: On this series, + Show Spoiler +
I feel like too much is being left unexplained, to the extent that it's just confusing and a bit annoying. And too many things feel unsubtle, like the Doctor looking at the 'negative/positive' reading for Amy's pregnancy test every episode; WE GET IT DON'T BEAT US ROUND THE HEAD WITH IT. And in the latest episode, why the fuck did Amy go and tell what she thought was the ganger Doctor that she had seen the Doctor die? It makes no sense. 'Oh I've upset the ganger I'd better go tell him about how I got invited to see the Doctor's death.'
Oh that's a nice explanation. I wasn't sure about the reason she told that to "the ganger".
For a moment I thought you were the same person as was gonna report for some stupid novelty accounts trying to make a joke about Dr. Who's gangers. Then I realized both accounts are a couple months old.
So, these are my current predictions as to what will most likely happen in the current season ^.^ + Show Spoiler +
--Amy was taken while in the orphanage looking for where the missing girl was taken. The Flesh Amy takes over on the Silence's ship where she is time disorientated once she wakes up, thinking she only just got there. This also implies that the Silence have the Flesh technology as well, which I'm guessing will be in the season final.
--The Doctor's future wife (River) is Amy's daughter... Let me explain: -From the preview of the next episode, Amy's daughter has been taken from her and Amy imprisoned (I think) -River Song claims she is in jail for killing the greatest man she ever knew (more likely than not the doctor). -The child inside the NASA suit from the silence episodes is essentially a time lord, this is because the time traveling Amy did has turned her into a 'time baby'. -The impossible astronaut then kills the future version of the doctor (future River)
--The real doctor now knows that he invites Amy & others to his death as he was told by Amy who thought she was telling the fake Doctor (but they swapped shoes and pretended to be each other)
--I also thought that the woman in the wall would Amy's midwife, which turned out to be true ^.^
Feel free to laugh about how much I've bent the little things that they imply =D Discuss :>
The Doctor needed to know he'll be dead if he wants to invite his friends in the future. The secret had to be leaked sooner or later. The question is : why did he need to invite them as he was a 1100 years old time lord (he probably had some more companions since them) ?
- The Silence used in the finale has to be expected, probably Silence from the future too, they know the power of a Time Lord and want to have one on their side. Since the world of the Flesh episodes is an Earth before humanity spreads out into space, it's possible Silence are controlling the island.
- I agree too with your theories about River, for me she's a time lord. The only part I'm not sure is about her being the child of Amy. It's too easy as an explanation.
The Doctor needed to know he'll be dead if he wants to invite his friends in the future. The secret had to be leaked sooner or later. The question is : why did he need to invite them as he was a 1100 years old time lord (he probably had some more companions since them) ?
- The Silence used in the finale has to be expected, probably Silence from the future too, they know the power of a Time Lord and want to have one on their side. Since the world of the Flesh episodes is an Earth before humanity spreads out into space, it's possible Silence are controlling the island.
- I agree too with your theories about River, for me she's a time lord. The only part I'm not sure is about her being the child of Amy. It's too easy as an explanation.
- Timey wimey, nothing has to make sense as to who he invites when.
As for Amy telling the ganger doctor it's so obvious, she's been on the brink of telling the real doctor all of the episodes pretty much. Now she got a chance to see his reaction.
hate this show, sorry. comes on after kitchen nightmares on bbc... I don't doubt that it has some kind of deep message in a way I'll never understand, but when it comes on it's just grating to me. The terrible special effects... they are so freaking bad I just don't understand. The acting... god help me.
On June 01 2011 00:27 CoolManJones wrote: hate this show, sorry. comes on after kitchen nightmares on bbc... I don't doubt that it has some kind of deep message in a way I'll never understand, but when it comes on it's just grating to me. The terrible special effects... they are so freaking bad I just don't understand. The acting... god help me.
Good to know son. Move on before i exterminate you.
On June 01 2011 00:27 CoolManJones wrote: hate this show, sorry. comes on after kitchen nightmares on bbc... I don't doubt that it has some kind of deep message in a way I'll never understand, but when it comes on it's just grating to me. The terrible special effects... they are so freaking bad I just don't understand. The acting... god help me.
Good to know son. Move on before i exterminate you.
EXTERMINAATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE THE DOCTAAAA!!!! *zap* *swoosh* *zap*
So I heard about Doctor Who for a while and decided to torrent all the seasons from 2005 to the first season of Matt Smith. At first I thought the show was cheesy with terrible cgi effects but all the characters were so good and it made the show for me. I was so sad when Eccleston left and even more sad when Tennant left. To be honest, Matt Smith isn't doing it for me. The show is still good but I just don't like him. If he died off right now I wouldn't feel anything for him. Maybe it is because the first season with him doesn't really flesh his character out.
I also feel that the Daleks have been overused way to many times and are becoming annoying now. Hopefully when I catch up with the second season with Matt Smith my opinions would change. Otherwise, great great show I recommend it especially as others have said the episode Blink is a must see.
I agree they have been done too many times in the new ones. It's has gotten to the point that they are expected every season, and people look forward to those episodes being over. I like the daleks and I'm getting bored of them.
I'm liking Matt smith but I used to watch the old ones too, so I guess I'm used to changing the Doctor from time to time. Plus Amy is one of my favourite companions, so that might be a bonus
I agree they have been done too many times in the new ones. It's has gotten to the point that they are expected every season, and people look forward to those episodes being over. I like the daleks and I'm getting bored of them.
I'm liking Matt smith but I used to watch the old ones too, so I guess I'm used to changing the Doctor from time to time. Plus Amy is one of my favourite companions, so that might be a bonus
Haha true. I find myself staring at Amy way too much and getting distracted from the story XD
The story has so many developments, split between an epic introduction (Rory centurion ! Poor Cybermen, Sontarans, and so many races), a good collection of lines, some intense moments perfectly mixed with action, without forgetting the bad guys and their ace with the baby.
Just enough answers to not frustrate the viewers and so many questions to give us the need of another semi-season.
Anyway, well played RefleX_AU, you sir just are Steven Moffat's mind. :p
On May 31 2011 17:42 RefleX_AU wrote: So, these are my current predictions as to what will most likely happen in the current season ^.^ + Show Spoiler +
--Amy was taken while in the orphanage looking for where the missing girl was taken. The Flesh Amy takes over on the Silence's ship where she is time disorientated once she wakes up, thinking she only just got there. This also implies that the Silence have the Flesh technology as well, which I'm guessing will be in the season final.
--The Doctor's future wife (River) is Amy's daughter... Let me explain: -From the preview of the next episode, Amy's daughter has been taken from her and Amy imprisoned (I think) -River Song claims she is in jail for killing the greatest man she ever knew (more likely than not the doctor). -The child inside the NASA suit from the silence episodes is essentially a time lord, this is because the time traveling Amy did has turned her into a 'time baby'. -The impossible astronaut then kills the future version of the doctor (future River)
--The real doctor now knows that he invites Amy & others to his death as he was told by Amy who thought she was telling the fake Doctor (but they swapped shoes and pretended to be each other)
--I also thought that the woman in the wall would Amy's midwife, which turned out to be true ^.^
Feel free to laugh about how much I've bent the little things that they imply =D Discuss :>
How the hell were you so close to what actually happened wow.
Initially I was thinking that the Doctor would not be able to save Melody and she would grow up to be the weapon she wanted to be, resulting in her killing the doctor successfully in TIA. But then I remembered that River was there and was just as distraught, shooting the astronaut in the back, so that's unlikely.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often !
In the season 5, during the mermaid episode, during the doctor's wife episode, during the opening of season 6 (episode 2 ?). I'll not be that surprised if he's really killed one day or another.
I was surprised they were so fine with killing Dorium Maldovar (blueberry man). His role as a neutral character was good to connect a lot of the separate factions/arcs. He's also been protrayed as a cunning, intelligent character and well his death was less than that.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often!
Damn, thats a good point wouldn't surprise me if that happens
On May 31 2011 17:42 RefleX_AU wrote: So, these are my current predictions as to what will most likely happen in the current season ^.^ + Show Spoiler +
--Amy was taken while in the orphanage looking for where the missing girl was taken. The Flesh Amy takes over on the Silence's ship where she is time disorientated once she wakes up, thinking she only just got there. This also implies that the Silence have the Flesh technology as well, which I'm guessing will be in the season final.
--The Doctor's future wife (River) is Amy's daughter... Let me explain: -From the preview of the next episode, Amy's daughter has been taken from her and Amy imprisoned (I think) -River Song claims she is in jail for killing the greatest man she ever knew (more likely than not the doctor). -The child inside the NASA suit from the silence episodes is essentially a time lord, this is because the time traveling Amy did has turned her into a 'time baby'. -The impossible astronaut then kills the future version of the doctor (future River)
--The real doctor now knows that he invites Amy & others to his death as he was told by Amy who thought she was telling the fake Doctor (but they swapped shoes and pretended to be each other)
--I also thought that the woman in the wall would Amy's midwife, which turned out to be true ^.^
Feel free to laugh about how much I've bent the little things that they imply =D Discuss :>
How the hell were you so close to what actually happened wow.
Great job with the guess
the producer did some private viewings for fans some weeks in advanced and some kid leaked the plot all over the internet, so i'm a little dubious that he was so accurate, but at the same time i sorta guessed that River was Amy's daughter quite a while ago too so note sure.
In Australia we're a few weeks behind the post recent one I saw was the 2nd one with the flesh in the monestary, where can I watch the up to date episodes?
Cybermen? More like cybernoobs! The doctor calls in like 4 favors and all of a sudden he roflstomps all over them? They're not even in charge? They just seem to be randomly involved and most of them die just to show the doctor "means business" about getting amy back? Did the writer expect us to forget every storyline that involved the cybermen ever?
What's up with those favors he asked anyways? I was hoping for some kick-ass guest star action by people from previous seasons. I'm sure the doctor can call in more favors than I have fingers on my right hand, however counting his allies on the scene I guess I'm wrong. Also, even though I liked the nurse sautaron (Spelling?) all the other characters that came to help were not really mention worthy in my eyes. I think it was supposed to be a recognize-fest, however I caught myself going "who were those characters again?" most of the time.
I was expecting a ton more from this episode, I figured Song wasn't Amy's daughter because that'd be too obvious, so the ending was a bit of an anti-climax. Not to mention the cybermen were just a small part of the plan, when I expected them to be behind the whole operation. And the disappointing amount of people showing up after calling in the favors it just feels like the story doesn't make a lot of sense. I even watched the confidential episode to see if I perhaps missed something, or to see if they might explain a bit futher on the paths taken, but no luck.
On June 05 2011 20:14 valheru wrote: In Australia we're a few weeks behind the post recent one I saw was the 2nd one with the flesh in the monestary, where can I watch the up to date episodes?
On June 05 2011 21:05 Mortician wrote: WHY DIDN'T RIVER SONG REGENERATE WHEN SHE DID IF SHE IS A TIME LORD!?
Rewatch her death. No way she had time to regenerate.
Also, IIRC in the discussion leading up to River's death it was stated that not even the Dr could regenerate if he plugged himself in to the core, so River knocked him out and sacrificed herself.
On June 05 2011 22:15 Kuhva wrote: Also, IIRC in the discussion leading up to River's death it was stated that not even the Dr could regenerate if he plugged himself in to the core, so River knocked him out and sacrificed herself.
Something like this yeah. It should be a nice challenge to review all the episodes with River Song from end to begin just to have the same view as her ah hah.
On May 31 2011 17:42 RefleX_AU wrote: So, these are my current predictions as to what will most likely happen in the current season ^.^ + Show Spoiler +
--Amy was taken while in the orphanage looking for where the missing girl was taken. The Flesh Amy takes over on the Silence's ship where she is time disorientated once she wakes up, thinking she only just got there. This also implies that the Silence have the Flesh technology as well, which I'm guessing will be in the season final.
--The Doctor's future wife (River) is Amy's daughter... Let me explain: -From the preview of the next episode, Amy's daughter has been taken from her and Amy imprisoned (I think) -River Song claims she is in jail for killing the greatest man she ever knew (more likely than not the doctor). -The child inside the NASA suit from the silence episodes is essentially a time lord, this is because the time traveling Amy did has turned her into a 'time baby'. -The impossible astronaut then kills the future version of the doctor (future River)
--The real doctor now knows that he invites Amy & others to his death as he was told by Amy who thought she was telling the fake Doctor (but they swapped shoes and pretended to be each other)
--I also thought that the woman in the wall would Amy's midwife, which turned out to be true ^.^
Feel free to laugh about how much I've bent the little things that they imply =D Discuss :>
How the hell were you so close to what actually happened wow.
Great job with the guess
the producer did some private viewings for fans some weeks in advanced and some kid leaked the plot all over the internet, so i'm a little dubious that he was so accurate, but at the same time i sorta guessed that River was Amy's daughter quite a while ago too so note sure.
The latest episode was just wow. So cool I need to go back and watch all the doctor who episodes with River in them now XD One day we will have River's chronology worked out and it will be cool to see the episodes from her point of view :D
Coolest thing though is how Steven Moffat has been planning this out for so long and it just came to fruition. The guy is gonna win some awards for this I am sure.
I dont want to wait until september lets just make that clear right now Oh well this thread will be revived in september if it dies out rest assured
As a side note:
Any classic series or story arcs I should go back and watch? I did see some of the episodes with the first doctor and enjoyed them to a certain extent though Susan made me stop watching the 1962 episodes and I saw only the episodes from 1961 and the first story from when the video had been lost.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often!
We've already seen the spaceman kill the doctor. Way I see it River is born, raised as a weapon, kills the old doctor at a young age, then meets a slightly younger doctor who seduces her and takes her on a journey through time and space, she learns who she is and who she killed, more journeying while the doctor gets younger until the doctor finally meets her in the forest of the dead and she dies.
it makes perfect sense, she's been brought up to kill the Doctor, you see her in the space suit, you see the space suit killing the Doctor, that mixed with the fact that the Doctors future (his death) is Rivers past (her as a child) and it makes sense!! And to add to that, we already know River kills someone, so it is clearly the Doctor
Was a bit disappointed they gave it away so easily and so early by showing the baby's name, which wouldn't have been so obvious if it hadn't been such a strong possibility at that point. Still think it was awesome, just not at all surprising and kinda made it drag on a bit in the end.
Interesting that people are saying River is in jail for killing the Doctor and equating that to the spaceman shooting him. Her killing the greatest man who ever lived, it's hard to see that as anyone but the Doctor. But I still think that happens when she is older. By all accounts the spacesuit contained a child, which seemed to have escaped and regenerated soon afterwards in New York. If the child was the one to kill the Doctor, would it be right to sentence the child to life imprisonment? The future has no concept of an age of majority? I'm not sure if River is the one in the spacesuit when it killed the Doctor. Dunno, I think there's more to this to come.
Also, at the guy who didn't like the favours the Doctor called in - seriously? I want to see a whole series on the steampunk adventures of the lizard lady and her maid. They were awesome! Really hoping to see them more often.
On June 06 2011 08:28 Sanctimonius wrote: About River: + Show Spoiler +
Interesting that people are saying River is in jail for killing the Doctor and equating that to the spaceman shooting him. Her killing the greatest man who ever lived, it's hard to see that as anyone but the Doctor. But I still think that happens when she is older. By all accounts the spacesuit contained a child, which seemed to have escaped and regenerated soon afterwards in New York. If the child was the one to kill the Doctor, would it be right to sentence the child to life imprisonment? The future has no concept of an age of majority? I'm not sure if River is the one in the spacesuit when it killed the Doctor. Dunno, I think there's more to this to come.
Also, at the guy who didn't like the favours the Doctor called in - seriously? I want to see a whole series on the steampunk adventures of the lizard lady and her maid. They were awesome! Really hoping to see them more often.
at least we know why noone ever caught jack the ripper
On June 06 2011 08:28 Sanctimonius wrote: About River: + Show Spoiler +
Interesting that people are saying River is in jail for killing the Doctor and equating that to the spaceman shooting him. Her killing the greatest man who ever lived, it's hard to see that as anyone but the Doctor. But I still think that happens when she is older. By all accounts the spacesuit contained a child, which seemed to have escaped and regenerated soon afterwards in New York. If the child was the one to kill the Doctor, would it be right to sentence the child to life imprisonment? The future has no concept of an age of majority? I'm not sure if River is the one in the spacesuit when it killed the Doctor. Dunno, I think there's more to this to come.
Also, at the guy who didn't like the favours the Doctor called in - seriously? I want to see a whole series on the steampunk adventures of the lizard lady and her maid. They were awesome! Really hoping to see them more often.
They barely stood out to me, I thought the nurse sautaron was way more awesome. Characters like the lizard lady and her maid appear in every other episode. Which is exactly why I barely remembered who she is.
When the doctor calls in favors I expect something like what the doctor's enemies did last season's final episode.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often!
We've already seen the spaceman kill the doctor. Way I see it River is born, raised as a weapon, kills the old doctor at a young age, then meets a slightly younger doctor who seduces her and takes her on a journey through time and space, she learns who she is and who she killed, more journeying while the doctor gets younger until the doctor finally meets her in the forest of the dead and she dies.
I initially thought this but then surely the River that is present with Rory/Amy would remember this. Instead she seemed pretty convincingly distraught and was even shooting the Astronaut.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often!
We've already seen the spaceman kill the doctor. Way I see it River is born, raised as a weapon, kills the old doctor at a young age, then meets a slightly younger doctor who seduces her and takes her on a journey through time and space, she learns who she is and who she killed, more journeying while the doctor gets younger until the doctor finally meets her in the forest of the dead and she dies.
I initially thought this but then surely the River that is present with Rory/Amy would remember this. Instead she seemed pretty convincingly distraught and was even shooting the Astronaut.
We already know the fact she killed the greatest man in the world, but still I'm not that convinced that she killed the Doctor, or at least why she's in jail. She seems to go in/out of her cell when she wants, I believe she's in it because she wants to be in it, to be forgiven maybe ?
I think of Rory because "the greatest man in the world" exactly is something a girl could call her father.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often!
We've already seen the spaceman kill the doctor. Way I see it River is born, raised as a weapon, kills the old doctor at a young age, then meets a slightly younger doctor who seduces her and takes her on a journey through time and space, she learns who she is and who she killed, more journeying while the doctor gets younger until the doctor finally meets her in the forest of the dead and she dies.
I initially thought this but then surely the River that is present with Rory/Amy would remember this. Instead she seemed pretty convincingly distraught and was even shooting the Astronaut.
We already know the fact she killed the greatest man in the world, but still I'm not that convinced that she killed the Doctor, or at least why she's in jail. She seems to go in/out of her cell when she wants, I believe she's in it because she wants to be in it, to be forgiven maybe ?
I think of Rory because "the greatest man in the world" exactly is something a girl could call her father.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often!
We've already seen the spaceman kill the doctor. Way I see it River is born, raised as a weapon, kills the old doctor at a young age, then meets a slightly younger doctor who seduces her and takes her on a journey through time and space, she learns who she is and who she killed, more journeying while the doctor gets younger until the doctor finally meets her in the forest of the dead and she dies.
I initially thought this but then surely the River that is present with Rory/Amy would remember this. Instead she seemed pretty convincingly distraught and was even shooting the Astronaut.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often!
We've already seen the spaceman kill the doctor. Way I see it River is born, raised as a weapon, kills the old doctor at a young age, then meets a slightly younger doctor who seduces her and takes her on a journey through time and space, she learns who she is and who she killed, more journeying while the doctor gets younger until the doctor finally meets her in the forest of the dead and she dies.
I initially thought this but then surely the River that is present with Rory/Amy would remember this. Instead she seemed pretty convincingly distraught and was even shooting the Astronaut.
When they're investigating the child in 1969 River doesn't seem to know anything about it even though it's supposed to be her own past and given the traumatic nature of the events I don't think she would have just forgotten. The Silence was involved though, so who knows.
Another possibility is River killing Rory and not the Doctor. Amy said she'll be saved by a good man, her husband. And we see him (nearly) dying so often!
We've already seen the spaceman kill the doctor. Way I see it River is born, raised as a weapon, kills the old doctor at a young age, then meets a slightly younger doctor who seduces her and takes her on a journey through time and space, she learns who she is and who she killed, more journeying while the doctor gets younger until the doctor finally meets her in the forest of the dead and she dies.
I initially thought this but then surely the River that is present with Rory/Amy would remember this. Instead she seemed pretty convincingly distraught and was even shooting the Astronaut.
When they're investigating the child in 1969 River doesn't seem to know anything about it even though it's supposed to be her own past and given the traumatic nature of the events I don't think she would have just forgotten. The Silence was involved though, so who knows.
Just thought that I should point out....this thread is titled "Dr Who Thread"
This show is titled "Doctor Who" and for a good reason. "Doctor" is his name in the series. It is what he is called....not his title. Much like having a normal name like Jane or George.
So what im saying is you spelled his name and the title of the show wrong.
Not a big deal of course but for some reason it really jumped out at me xD
nazgul monks, crossspecies lesbians (not that I'm complaining ^^), the double flesh trap, the gay anglican marines (also rather classy, but still more farce than wit), rounded off with a double helping of the 'brave death scene'
and all that set off by the end announcement of "doctor who returns next season in 'let's kill hitler' "
I guess it was supposed to be all momentous and epic and emotional, but when that popped up I just burst out laughing and couldn't stop for about five minutes. I love doctor who for the british sassy, absurdist humor and the episode delivered more so than usual (the sontaran nurse was incredible) but everything about this season has been psychological and freaky, from the silence to the asteroid to the flesh. Throwing in a classic Dr who romp at the end seemed a little... off.
especially liked the episode called Doctor's Wife, cos its centric on the TARDIS which is somethin that i love cos its somethin that hasnt happened for a long time, in the old episodes, like the really old ones, they always showed off the TARDIS controls and rooms so i'm hopin for a lot more stuff on it XD
I initially thought this but then surely the River that is present with Rory/Amy would remember this. Instead she seemed pretty convincingly distraught and was even shooting the Astronaut.
But River wasn't shooting right away. She held Amy back after the Doctor was shot the first time, and only fired herself once the astronaut was leaving. She would be distraught if she knew and was only barred from action by the paradox it would cause.
On June 08 2011 09:41 kzerg04 wrote: This show is titled "Doctor Who" and for a good reason. "Doctor" is his name in the series. It is what he is called....not his title. Much like having a normal name like Jane or George.
"I'm THE Doctor" not "I am Doctor" He treats it as a title, not a proper name.
I initially thought this but then surely the River that is present with Rory/Amy would remember this. Instead she seemed pretty convincingly distraught and was even shooting the Astronaut.
But River wasn't shooting right away. She held Amy back after the Doctor was shot the first time, and only fired herself once the astronaut was leaving. She would be distraught if she knew and was only barred from action by the paradox it would cause.
That staring contest poster is fantastic. Can i just say its July and September (and new episodes) still feel sooo far away. heres to living under a rock and only JUST finding out that that game of thrones show is based off of the greatest book series ever written and I got a whole new show to watch!
Just started watching, and although extreeeeemely cheesy a lot of the time, it's too charming to not love. Currently on Series Two, and I have to say that + Show Spoiler +
I'm pretty disappointed Eccleston stayed-on only one season. He fits the roll perfectly.
It clicked pretty quickly who 'Mel; was, but still a fun twist. Answers a couple of questions as well.
Like what questions? It was like zero new information, only explained everything we knew already, and some stupid mistakes as well in the storyline. I really disliked this episode.
It clicked pretty quickly who 'Mel; was, but still a fun twist. Answers a couple of questions as well.
Like what questions? It was like zero new information, only explained everything we knew already, and some stupid mistakes as well in the storyline. I really disliked this episode.
what I found more interesting than River regenerating and all that was that River kills the doctor in Utah as a "fixed point". If something is a fixed point that means that there is no way to change it and it must happen in all timelines (Ex: Time War, Galafrey's destruction)
It clicked pretty quickly who 'Mel; was, but still a fun twist. Answers a couple of questions as well.
Like what questions? It was like zero new information, only explained everything we knew already, and some stupid mistakes as well in the storyline. I really disliked this episode.
We found out where River got the diary. We found out she was imprisoned for killing the Doctor and not Rory (there was ambiguity here before) We found out why she couldn't regenerate in the Library.
On August 30 2011 13:53 boredrex wrote: For an episode called "Let's Kill Hitler", there was an awful lack of Hitler.
Moffat mentioned that in some recent interviews - Hitler being the famous mass-murdering fuckhead from history, Moffat felt it would have really pissed him off if he knew he would be treated as a bit of a ridiculous figure and pretty much completely side-tracked in this way. So - Hitler gets punched and forgotten in a closet. Sounds good to me
On September 11 2011 08:03 xtfftc wrote: Really liked yesterday's episode. And it's always amazing how cheesy do the directors do each episode, even when the script doesn't need it.
But then again it's probably one of those imperfections that make things better.
Yeah I really liked it, though the happy robots felt out of place a little. So far I haven't any complaints about the season, definitely enjoying it. It sucks that theres only 3 episodes left though
I feel like Ami and Rory will be back.. no way they would leave it at that.. they'll be apart of the finale for sure (and im hoping how he 'dies'// what happens with that is answered too then..) My gut is telling me though, that this is the last season with Ami and Rory and maybe Matt Smith as the Doctor
I liked the God Complex episode but I felt that it should have been a two-parter... It just didn't feel like a major development this way. Too many things happened way too quickly. It twas the same a few months ago with the half-season finale - it needed three episodes to develop the story properly instead of two.
Anyway, I think Ami will stick around for next season, just not as one of the main characters.
Really disappointed in Dr Who once again, the ending of this episode felt exactly the same as the ending of the last 2 episodes. Getting really tired of belief and emotion solving every single threat to earth.
However I can't help but to feel excited for the next episode, the teaser looked awesome, but then again so did the teaser for last night's episode...
Also, Amy and Rory are supposed to be there during the Christmas Special, so I suppose they'll be there next season as well.
I really liked this Episode , The Cybermen were just a small part of it really, the dialog between the Doctor , Craig and Stormageddon was so incredible , in every scene i buy Matt Smiths portrayal of a thousand year old Timelord.
The ending felt a little out of place for me , but i loved the little continuity nods , (blue envelopes , the Stetson) awesome.
On September 25 2011 19:47 Linkirvana wrote: Really disappointed in Dr Who once again, the ending of this episode felt exactly the same as the ending of the last 2 episodes. Getting really tired of belief and emotion solving every single threat to earth.
However I can't help but to feel excited for the next episode, the teaser looked awesome, but then again so did the teaser for last night's episode...
Also, Amy and Rory are supposed to be there during the Christmas Special, so I suppose they'll be there next season as well.
I think that's part of how they're exaggerating the differences between Smith and Tennant. This one is more emotional and less aggressive with solving things. He tries to guide more than drive.
On September 25 2011 19:54 Irratonalys wrote: I really liked this Episode , The Cybermen were just a small part of it really, the dialog between the Doctor , Craig and Stormageddon was so incredible , in every scene i buy Matt Smiths portrayal of a thousand year old Timelord.
The ending felt a little out of place for me , but i loved the little continuity nods , (blue envelopes , the Stetson) awesome.
It is rather lame but that's Doctor Who for you; there's no way to avoid the cheesy bits :D And I guess they sort of needed a weaker episodes, considering how awesome the last two were.
For next week I really hope that Moffat didn't try to squeeze the material for two episodes into one.
On September 25 2011 20:07 Stephano wrote: Big fan of this serie !!
You're getting close to becoming the awesomest Zerg in the SC2 scene ^^
This season has been good for the most part. With Matt Smith's term I feel like he doesn't go to enough planets, but then again that was back in Tennant's day. Also in Tennant's day the entire world would be in trouble from massive attacks from beings connected with machines way too much. My favorite thing about Matt Smith is I feel like he captures the fun-ness and wonder of the Doctor, but at the same time I believe him as an old man trying to accept his own demise.
On September 25 2011 23:26 xtfftc wrote: For next week I really hope that Moffat didn't try to squeeze the material for two episodes into one.
Reading some spoilers for next week I have the same worry, but I have faith in Moffat to do it.
Last episode was really brilliant. Maybe they should have more guests in. The only problem was the plot resolution. I wish he solved more things using clever tricks rather than stupidity into blind luck.
The question I'm waiting to have answered, is who is that old man that gets the letter as well? Looking forward to next week, I'm thinking it'll be a three-part episode with parts 2 and 3 on Christmas Day and New Years Eve.
On September 26 2011 08:14 Stijx wrote: The question I'm waiting to have answered, is who is that old man that gets the letter as well? Looking forward to next week, I'm thinking it'll be a three-part episode with parts 2 and 3 on Christmas Day and New Years Eve.
Hes the FBI agent that helps them in 1969. By the time in 2010 when the doctor dies hes an old man.
Looking forward to what happens next episode. Seemed the Doctor is getting ready for his death and almost accepting it.
On September 26 2011 08:05 Fishes wrote: Tennant was amazing, Eccleston was meh, Smith is fresh, seems like a really different Doctor.
Wait what? Did you even SEE Eccleston? For his one season, he was the one who drew me in to the show. Eccleston was fantastic. Granted, I'm a significantly bigger David Tennant fan, but still!
On September 26 2011 08:11 Klive5ive wrote: Last episode was really brilliant. Maybe they should have more guests in. The only problem was the plot resolution. I wish he solved more things using clever tricks rather than stupidity into blind luck.
I believe that is the writing team's attempt at showing that the Dr. doesn't always succeed (then does, anyway).
I haven't been too impressed this season. Feels like a lot of filler episodes, almost as if the focus on the Dr. is taking away from everything else.
On September 26 2011 08:11 Klive5ive wrote: Last episode was really brilliant. Maybe they should have more guests in. The only problem was the plot resolution. I wish he solved more things using clever tricks rather than stupidity into blind luck.
I believe that is the writing team's attempt at showing that the Dr. doesn't always succeed (then does, anyway).
I haven't been too impressed this season. Feels like a lot of filler episodes, almost as if the focus on the Dr. is taking away from everything else.
I agree with your last statement, it seems that each episode is 95% filler 5% actual relevance to the continuing story, i will still watch and i hope they dont let me down but im not really liking these fillers and 'dads love for child saves the day' which has happened twice in a short space of time now..
On September 26 2011 08:11 Klive5ive wrote: Last episode was really brilliant. Maybe they should have more guests in. The only problem was the plot resolution. I wish he solved more things using clever tricks rather than stupidity into blind luck.
I believe that is the writing team's attempt at showing that the Dr. doesn't always succeed (then does, anyway).
I haven't been too impressed this season. Feels like a lot of filler episodes, almost as if the focus on the Dr. is taking away from everything else.
I agree with your last statement, it seems that each episode is 95% filler 5% actual relevance to the continuing story, i will still watch and i hope they dont let me down but im not really liking these fillers and 'dads love for child saves the day' which has happened twice in a short space of time now..
Yeah, not to mention episodes which prominently feature corridors... I like Smith, or maybe I like Smith because I prefer Amy to Donna and Rose, who started getting on my nerves. I'll keep watching, but for this whole 'death / decline of the Dr.' subplot they're doing, I don't think they're doing it well.
Well, at the end of "Lets Kill Hitler" she is being accepted into archeology, and at the beginning of whatever the next episode is called, she's recently been conferred the title of "Dr." Presumably, then, this is still very early in her time-line.
Well, at the end of "Lets Kill Hitler" she is being accepted into archeology, and at the beginning of whatever the next episode is called, she's recently been conferred the title of "Dr." Presumably, then, this is still very early in her time-line.
I can't believe it would've been him just faking his death. Somehow time and space got tricked into thinking he was dead which resulted in everything going back to normal? That doesn't even make sense.Since I was watching a bit of a laggy stream I may have missed some essential convos, but that's how I understood it atleast. And then River goes ahead and flat out tell Amy about it.
Also on a different note, shouldn't the River Song from a point in time past "the doctor's death" (Say, the River from the Library episodes from series 4) not remember it as if the Doctor died that day? And therefor not be his wife, and therefor not have as many adventures with the Doctor? I mean fixed point in time and all that right? Or was time never changed? Was it always supposed to be a fake doctor dying? And if that is the case, why does time and space still go batshit crazy when the fake doctor didn't die? (I even recall briefly seing reapers)
I can't believe it would've been him just faking his death. Somehow time and space got tricked into thinking he was dead which resulted in everything going back to normal? That doesn't even make sense.Since I was watching a bit of a laggy stream I may have missed some essential convos, but that's how I understood it atleast. And then River goes ahead and flat out tell Amy about it.
Also on a different note, shouldn't the River Song from a point in time past "the doctor's death" (Say, the River from the Library episodes from series 4) not remember it as if the Doctor died that day? And therefor not be his wife, and therefor not have as many adventures with the Doctor? I mean fixed point in time and all that right? Or was time never changed? Was it always supposed to be a fake doctor dying? And if that is the case, why does time and space still go batshit crazy when the fake doctor didn't die? (I even recall briefly seing reapers)
The fixed point in time is not the Doctor's death. It was River shooting the Teselecta. It was the Teselecta in "The Impossible Astronaut" as well, just nobody knew it at the time. Everyone just assumed the fixed point was the death of the Doctor.
He didn't trick time and space, only the people living in time and space.
I can't believe it would've been him just faking his death. Somehow time and space got tricked into thinking he was dead which resulted in everything going back to normal? That doesn't even make sense.Since I was watching a bit of a laggy stream I may have missed some essential convos, but that's how I understood it atleast. And then River goes ahead and flat out tell Amy about it.
Also on a different note, shouldn't the River Song from a point in time past "the doctor's death" (Say, the River from the Library episodes from series 4) not remember it as if the Doctor died that day? And therefor not be his wife, and therefor not have as many adventures with the Doctor? I mean fixed point in time and all that right? Or was time never changed? Was it always supposed to be a fake doctor dying? And if that is the case, why does time and space still go batshit crazy when the fake doctor didn't die? (I even recall briefly seing reapers)
I just clicked your spoiler forgetting that Europe get's it much earlier... This has made me the saddest person on TeamLiquid
Why or how would the Teselecta begin to start regeneration? I guess I can get everything else that happened but I dunno, if that was just a robot then how did it start doing that? I doubt they can manufacture such an energy force just like that
ehhhhhh still...long long way to the next season...
Anybody else think the finale could have done with an epic double length episode to end the series, i also wanted a more mind boggling ending where the we find out the doctor has been trapped in the pandorica all this time or something and we only now find out (not in the "i'll resolve the whole story in the last five seconds with the doctor appearing unexplainably" fashion of the last finale though.)
Overall however i thought this series was really good, Matt Smith has certainly grown on me!
I can't believe it would've been him just faking his death. Somehow time and space got tricked into thinking he was dead which resulted in everything going back to normal? That doesn't even make sense.Since I was watching a bit of a laggy stream I may have missed some essential convos, but that's how I understood it atleast. And then River goes ahead and flat out tell Amy about it.
Also on a different note, shouldn't the River Song from a point in time past "the doctor's death" (Say, the River from the Library episodes from series 4) not remember it as if the Doctor died that day? And therefor not be his wife, and therefor not have as many adventures with the Doctor? I mean fixed point in time and all that right? Or was time never changed? Was it always supposed to be a fake doctor dying? And if that is the case, why does time and space still go batshit crazy when the fake doctor didn't die? (I even recall briefly seing reapers)
I just clicked your spoiler forgetting that Europe get's it much earlier... This has made me the saddest person on TeamLiquid
It's proud for using relatively cheap special effects and still making them work well. However I admit, if I were to be anal about modern special effects etc, I would cringe every time I saw a cyberman.
Super, super dissapointed by the episode. The "twist" was so obvious I wanted to cry, and we are still left with a fuckton of unanswered (further delayed) questions. Overall a decent season, with some absolutely horrible episodes and a bad, bad ending.
Kind of the opposite of series 5, where the episodes leading up to the finale was okay, but the final two being so amazing the series overall was awesome.
Did we ever get an answer to what had the juice to fucking explode the TARDIS in series 5? I was so hoping for an Omega-type villain pulling the strings.
Why or how would the Teselecta begin to start regeneration? I guess I can get everything else that happened but I dunno, if that was just a robot then how did it start doing that? I doubt they can manufacture such an energy force just like that
ehhhhhh still...long long way to the next season...
Remember how it faked the motorcycle in the Hitler episode? Im sure it could easily shoot some flashy lights out as well. It didn't have to be regenerating for real, just look like it.
Funnily enough, I actually enjoyed the filler episodes this season, especially The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex (and I've just noticed that both were directed by Nick Hurran.. no idea who he is but I hope he returns for the next season). The continuing story suffered from separating the season into two parts. The way everything turned out to be just fine was bad but it's typical for Doctor Who really - and it was still much better compared to what Russell Davies would have done with it. ^^
On September 26 2011 08:11 Klive5ive wrote: Last episode was really brilliant. Maybe they should have more guests in. The only problem was the plot resolution. I wish he solved more things using clever tricks rather than stupidity into blind luck.
I believe that is the writing team's attempt at showing that the Dr. doesn't always succeed (then does, anyway).
I haven't been too impressed this season. Feels like a lot of filler episodes, almost as if the focus on the Dr. is taking away from everything else.
I agree with your last statement, it seems that each episode is 95% filler 5% actual relevance to the continuing story, i will still watch and i hope they dont let me down but im not really liking these fillers and 'dads love for child saves the day' which has happened twice in a short space of time now..
I like Smith, or maybe I like Smith because I prefer Amy to Donna and Rose, who started getting on my nerves.
I was very disappointed, the whole episode was a mess and had almost no relevance to the final 5 minutes where we find out hes been in the teselecta all this time. I half expected the Dr was a ganger or something, but i mean, they have 2 identity theifs in this series: (gangers and teselecta) so it was pretty obvious someone wasnt who they seemed to be, but this type of writing is awful and shouldnt be relied on, I was absollutely sick of the over-use of polyjuic potion in harry potter so this series left a bad taste in my mouth. It's just too easy to write stories with identity theft themes, and I just hope there won't be any more and we get some decent original scripts in future. I mean, its ok to leave clues in previous episodes, in series 3 there was an episode where the DR was in human form, and a pocket watch was his timelord form, and then a second watch was explosively revealed as the masters timelord form. This type of "changed identity" is ok, because its not an easy-fit disguise, and has some back story, but doppelgangers and intergalactic space cops in the teselecta? pleease......
However its not all bad news, "the doctors.wife" was the best episode i've ever seen alongside the "impossible planet/satan pit" from series 3. Matt smith is a great dr, he did some good acting this series, the impossible astronaut/day of the moon/a good man goes to war were also excellent. Also now that everyone thinks the Dr is dead, could lead to some interesting dynamics in the next series.
Funnily enough, I actually enjoyed the filler episodes this season, especially The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex (and I've just noticed that both were directed by Nick Hurran.. no idea who he is but I hope he returns for the next season). The continuing story suffered from separating the season into two parts. The way everything turned out to be just fine was bad but it's typical for Doctor Who really
Anyone notice how the blue dude said "The silence will fall when the question is answered. More like the silence must fall." I reckon it might be important!
But really, I didn't like the series much at all. The idea of The Silence was cool and the episode with the hotel was good but most of the rest wasn't as good as they used to be. I miss David Tennant
I liked the all the season up till this one. I felt this one was lacking something. Where as every other season i would look forward to it and enjoy watching it start to finish this. In this one i got bored halfway through most episode and could guess what would happen.
On October 03 2011 17:00 Fear219 wrote: I liked the all the season up till this one. I felt this one was lacking something. Where as every other season i would look forward to it and enjoy watching it start to finish this. In this one i got bored halfway through most episode and could guess what would happen.
Really disappointed
The one thing I hate about Amy is that almost every single episode was a story episode, there wasn't enough "going off to a planet just to have fun" episodes. There was so many episodes where the doctor just went off to have fun with the other companions and this latest season only has the story in every single one. (I haven't seen after the dolls one though)
Hey lads! I've recently started watching the old school Doctor Who. Since I had heard nothing but good things about Tom Baker I decided to start watching him.
The special effects are disastrous, however if that's not too much of a both to you, I would recommend to watch these episodes as well! Especially since they contain a lot of Doctor Who backstory. (For example, the story Im currently watching involves how the first Dalek was created)
If that caught your interest look up "Classic Doctor Who Robot episode 1 part 1" on youtube, the first 2 story arcs of the 4th doctor (which is Tom Baker) are on youtube (Like 8 episodes) after that you'd have to download. (Piratebay has a torrent on the 4th doctor, it's kind of low on seeders, but it's the best Ive found so far)
But again, only if you can stand special effects from the 70's!
this year's special was absolutely horrible... Didn't feel like something written by Moffat at all. And (almost) all of the acting was terrible as well. I think I'll watch last year's one again to wash out the bad taste.
Ive started watching this like 4 days ago. Im on season 2 episode ~4. So far Its been a mix of zombies,ghosts,random,and aliens. If you have time give it a try.
There have been a fair amount of good episodes from 5 and 6 but they never seem to have that "awesome" factor. Tennant had a lot of sick episodes like The Satan Pit, Blink, I quite like 42, Silence in the Library and just in general seemed to just be more badass episodes. I think the finale to season 6 was kind of a mess.
ehh...need more timey-wimey spacey episodes. Tennant always looked sick in an astronaut suit
anyhow, christmas special was fine i think. Nothing absolutely awesome, that's true, but still i rather watch this than a LOT of other things, so it's certainly still a good thing The space suit helmet backwards thingy was funny.
At the beginning, when there was no "karen gillan" on the opening screen i was like "*sadface* no amy" but at least she got a few minutes at the end, yay x)
I utterly love Dr Who but I have completely lost touch of it and havn't had the courage to pick up amid all the confusing plotlines. I last stepped off when the Doctor gave his baby cot to that woman, River? How far behind am I, and what have I missed?
On September 02 2012 04:27 aloT wrote: I utterly love Dr Who but I have completely lost touch of it and havn't had the courage to pick up amid all the confusing plotlines. I last stepped off when the Doctor gave his baby cot to that woman, River? How far behind am I, and what have I missed?
Was that the doctor goes to war episode with all his buddies etc helping him out? There was only a few more after that, pretty sure.
----
Love this show, I guess the 11th doctor will die this season? It would be surprising if he got more seasons than tennant given hes not as popular, but I guess that could happen. Happy to see amy/rory go, I kind of prefer the one companion a season style so they were getting a little tired for me. Cant wait!!
On September 02 2012 04:44 Chillax wrote: New episodes was brilliant, cant wait for more.
Wow, totally missed a new episode was out! That is one of two series finally starting, now only waiting for them colorlful little ponies to come back aswell.
I dont get it, how are the daleks even alive in this number? How is skaro able to be approached, shouldnt it be time locked just like gallifrey? Shouldnt all of this be impossible...?
On September 02 2012 07:23 whatevername wrote: I dont get it, how are the daleks even alive in this number? How is skaro able to be approached, shouldnt it be time locked just like gallifrey? Shouldnt all of this be impossible...?
I don't think the Daleks are ever going to go away, ever. :D
Yes but this doesnt even make sense, it contradicts the canon. If the daleks arent time locked in the time war and effectively survived it, theres literally nothing stopping them rebuilding their entire species and conquering the galaxy. And if the doctor is suppose to be some sufficient force in stopping them then hes become a God and the Daleks become totally trivial. Apparently the way to win the time war was just to unleash the doctor on them and he'd of done it ez pz?
On September 02 2012 07:23 whatevername wrote: I dont get it, how are the daleks even alive in this number? How is skaro able to be approached, shouldnt it be time locked just like gallifrey? Shouldnt all of this be impossible...?
Last season I think it was? or the Season before new pure Daleks were created and they escaped and now have pretty much repopulated the Dalek race if that's what you are wondering.
It wasn't skaro either, Skaro is the main dalek planet, this was an asylum where they send all the insane Daleks or the overpowered ones they cannot control.
On September 02 2012 07:23 whatevername wrote: I dont get it, how are the daleks even alive in this number? How is skaro able to be approached, shouldnt it be time locked just like gallifrey? Shouldnt all of this be impossible...?
Last season I think it was? or the Season before new pure Daleks were created and they escaped and now have pretty much repopulated the Dalek race if that's what you are wondering.
It wasn't skaro either, Skaro is the main dalek planet, this was an asylum where they send all the insane Daleks or the overpowered ones they cannot control.
Oh, really? I guess I missed that episode. I know the dark planet was skaro, and I still dont understand how the Daleks went there if its time locked and all. At least the amount of Daleks makes sense to me now.
On September 02 2012 07:23 whatevername wrote: I dont get it, how are the daleks even alive in this number? How is skaro able to be approached, shouldnt it be time locked just like gallifrey? Shouldnt all of this be impossible...?
Last season I think it was? or the Season before new pure Daleks were created and they escaped and now have pretty much repopulated the Dalek race if that's what you are wondering.
It wasn't skaro either, Skaro is the main dalek planet, this was an asylum where they send all the insane Daleks or the overpowered ones they cannot control.
Oh, really? I guess I missed that episode. I know the dark planet was skaro, and I still dont understand how the Daleks went there if its time locked and all. At least the amount of Daleks makes sense to me now.
Pretty sure the only thing mentioned as being "time locked" was the time war. I don't think that means a planet itself can be locked, it's just that period of time. Gallifrey, as far as I know, was actually physically destroyed. In the previous episode at the end of Tennant's career as the Doctor a select group of timelords managed to be pulled from the time lock and they in turn brought Gallifrey through also (or at least they almost did). I may be wrong on all this, but I think that's how it works, the time war ended when the Doctor killed all (or what he thought to be all) of the Daleks alongside his own race. Makes sense in my eyes that means Gallifrey was destroyed at the end of the war.
Edit: You are right though, the planet that the woman was on at the start that was the 'trap' for the Doctor was on Skaro.
It doesnt make a lot of sense to me if the areas themselves arent time locked. Couldnt you then pop into eithers time period and change it? Wouldnt that create a paradox of sorts? The tenth doctor also insinuated a couple times that gallifrey was totally gone and he couldnt go there, but maybe he just refuses out of guilt.
My biggest gripe is that for the vast majority of this episode we saw nothing to suggest that the "residents" of the asylum where in anyway more unstable or dangerous than your typical run of the mill Batshit crazy Darlick. Then came the fantastic moment when a horror expetant doctor stumbled into intensive care, and discovers that the only thing ailing the most mentally damaged darlicks, is him. The idea that simply surviving the doctor would leave you irreversibly mad was pretty clever. But then came a moment that aspired to sheer moffat genius, something in the same vain of quality creativty as the act of flooding a single moment of life throughout all of desolate time and space in order to rekindle the universe. The final patient, the most insane darlik of all, that had to be buried into the core of an eternally sealed off planet...Is the one that thinks its human.
For a moment, I was left completely stunned. Thematically it just made perfect sense, what else could the darlicks fear so much as one of their own completely rejecting it's insidious identity in favour of a more apparently noble one? That of human, the race that the devil himself has died time and time again for. But nope, turns out the the darlick asylum's most deeply guarded patient is in fact a human they converted because of her doctor surpassing genius...Twoards the end of the episode she looks at the audience/camera and asks them to remember her. Something that I just cant do because you "girl whose name I cant really remember" could have easily been someone,or rather something, far more memorable, as could have been the whole episode. The whole Darlicks forgetting the doctor bit was cool though ( the compendium of darlicks are far better suited at the repetition of the title question then that silly single fat blue head.)
Yeah it definitely would of been more interesting if it was just a crazy Dalek. I mean, given Donna nearly died just for having the doctors knowledge, how is it even possible a human could surpass the doctor in *anything*? I suppose you could argue that she was merely a genius that had her abilities augmented greatly through her transformation into a dalek. Either way, the episode was kind of a swing and a miss.
Wiping the collective Dalek memory of the Doctor and all related incidents is going to have some seriously screwy ramifications with the rest of the continuity :S
I also can't wait to see the new companion again, she is quite attractive!
On September 02 2012 10:37 MidnightGladius wrote: Wiping the collective Dalek memory of the Doctor and all related incidents is going to have some seriously screwy ramifications with the rest of the continuity :S
I also can't wait to see the new companion again, she is quite attractive!
she is, the daleks are a side story these days though, the silence is the "main antagonist" and the question that will be asked on the beach will possibly be the final episode of the series or of matt smiths dr.
Freema Agyeman was originally in the episode with the void sphere, where the Daleks and Cybermen invaded Earth and had the all out war. Later the actress returns as a companion and mentions her cousin dying there - I'm hoping the same kind of sleight-of-hand doesn't happen again, this character was pretty interesting and a lot more involved than Freema's first one (or even her second one...). I'm wondering if it really will be like River Song though, with the Doctor cropping up earlier in her life. Maybe he'll be the one to teach her everything she knows about hacking the Daleks, after learning from her later self? Although she did say it was her first mission into space...
Personally enjoyed the episode, especially seeing that the Daleks have rebuilt their empire to some extent and now the Doctor has been wiped from their memories, what does this mean in the canon? Interested to see how they will play with this. And the scene with the insane Daleks was pretty awesome, especially with the little ballerina at the back.
On September 02 2012 04:27 aloT wrote: I utterly love Dr Who but I have completely lost touch of it and havn't had the courage to pick up amid all the confusing plotlines. I last stepped off when the Doctor gave his baby cot to that woman, River? How far behind am I, and what have I missed?
Was that the doctor goes to war episode with all his buddies etc helping him out? There was only a few more after that, pretty sure.
----
Love this show, I guess the 11th doctor will die this season? It would be surprising if he got more seasons than tennant given hes not as popular, but I guess that could happen. Happy to see amy/rory go, I kind of prefer the one companion a season style so they were getting a little tired for me. Cant wait!!
The doctors aren't booted for lack of popularity...they move on, usually to prevent being typecast (though it's always too late for that). Matt Smith will be the doctor for as long as he wants to be.
how do you know she is the next companion? what did i miss?
Don't think you need to spoiler this but keeping the tradition: + Show Spoiler +
Press releases, beep (BBC) interviews and a plethora of rumour-sites/threads. The mate is from N Ireland, so I would assume he has access to those sources. Dr. Who is a big deal in the UK and we in the rest of the world will have to do with what we can scrape together. Look at the beep from time to time and you might find things like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17456505
This kind of means that we already know where the Doctor's next companion will end up. It seems a bit odd though, she'd have to recognize the Doctor if she was from the future, but she didn't. So does that mean that amidst all of that explosion stuff she genius'd her way out of it? While at the same time un-assimilating herself? So she can end up being the Doctor's companion?
The first episode was alright, I have my doubts about the upcoming ones though, we'll see!
This kind of means that we already know where the Doctor's next companion will end up. It seems a bit odd though, she'd have to recognize the Doctor if she was from the future, but she didn't. So does that mean that amidst all of that explosion stuff she genius'd her way out of it? While at the same time un-assimilating herself? So she can end up being the Doctor's companion?
The first episode was alright, I have my doubts about the upcoming ones though, we'll see!
The thing that got me about this episode was that she was still shown as being human in what looks like a spherical type room. Whilst possible they did fully convert her to being a Dalek, perhaps they miniturised her (like the Doctor did in the previous series with the assassination bot) and stuck her inside the actual Dalek suit. This makes sense to some degree because when she's talking on voice communications to the Doctor she still sounds "human" and not Dalek-ified.
This kind of means that we already know where the Doctor's next companion will end up. It seems a bit odd though, she'd have to recognize the Doctor if she was from the future, but she didn't. So does that mean that amidst all of that explosion stuff she genius'd her way out of it? While at the same time un-assimilating herself? So she can end up being the Doctor's companion?
The first episode was alright, I have my doubts about the upcoming ones though, we'll see!
The thing that got me about this episode was that she was still shown as being human in what looks like a spherical type room. Whilst possible they did fully convert her to being a Dalek, perhaps they miniturised her (like the Doctor did in the previous series with the assassination bot) and stuck her inside the actual Dalek suit. This makes sense to some degree because when she's talking on voice communications to the Doctor she still sounds "human" and not Dalek-ified.
This kind of means that we already know where the Doctor's next companion will end up. It seems a bit odd though, she'd have to recognize the Doctor if she was from the future, but she didn't. So does that mean that amidst all of that explosion stuff she genius'd her way out of it? While at the same time un-assimilating herself? So she can end up being the Doctor's companion?
The first episode was alright, I have my doubts about the upcoming ones though, we'll see!
The thing that got me about this episode was that she was still shown as being human in what looks like a spherical type room. Whilst possible they did fully convert her to being a Dalek, perhaps they miniturised her (like the Doctor did in the previous series with the assassination bot) and stuck her inside the actual Dalek suit. This makes sense to some degree because when she's talking on voice communications to the Doctor she still sounds "human" and not Dalek-ified.
It was indeed, but it's the only way I can really see the human voice coming through. If you remember wayyyy back into the Rose/Eccleston era when the Dalek opened up it sounded basically the same inside when it spoke as when it was speaking from inside the shell. If she was fully converted surely she'd sound similar to the Daleks? Future episode potential spoiler if you don't read BBC about companions: + Show Spoiler +
That's really the only way I can see her becoming the next companion. It's possible he went back in her timeline and met her there and the nanobots erased her memory of the Doctor on the Asylum planet but at the same time I don't really think that'd be the case. Moffat tends to be a fan of re-using similar ideas from the past just in clever ways. I don't think it'll be possible to revert the conversion if she was fully converted, though of course this is all speculation and I'm probably incredibly wrong, but that's just how I see it happening :D
Edits: Yay for spoiler syntaxes, hopefully didn't ruin anything D:
Doctors companion was also a girl from the 1940's in last years christmas special. That will probably be the identity of the companion. Kind of weird to guest star an actor and then make them a mainstay [but different] role in the same season though.
I really hope its not Oswin or whatever, I didnt like her genius or her snarkyness.
Tennant and Echelston are awesome I dont like Matt Smith though cant wait to see him replaced and get a new doctor/companion (getting a bit sick of amy too).
On September 03 2012 06:16 leveller wrote: Tennant and Echelston are awesome I dont like Matt Smith though cant wait to see him replaced and get a new doctor/companion (getting a bit sick of amy too).
I am not really sure why people feel that way. To me Eccelston was very original in his way of playing the doctor and really developed the series. Everything went bad, from my view when Tennant took over. He overplayed it so much in the beginning and the combination of him and Billie did not seem to work that well. Don't get me wrong, I probably loved "The Girl In The Fireplace" and "Love & Monsters" as much as the next one, but I do not attribute it as much to the main actors on the show as much as the brilliant scripts/execution. The acting improved a lot with Freema as companion and "Gridlock" and "Blink" are brilliant pieces with Gridlock really showing Tennant as a brilliant piece in a "do androids dream of electric sheep?"-world (The book inspiring the film Blade Runner even though the book has a much more depressing and dystopian tone. For people knowing how dark the film is, it does say a lot). With Tate as companion the acting was a bit hit and miss. To me Matt Smith has moved the series a lot closer to how it was played by Tom Baker and I do like the olden days. The quality of some of the stories has decreased a little even though they are still above their competition.
Generally I like the somewhat awkward madness portrayed by Matt Smith more than the rambling and emotional acting of Tennant. The doctor of the olden days is cynical about humans and feelings and Eccleston mostly followed through on that style. Tennant and Smith has had some of the "sexual tention" with the companions we see in almost all modern shows. Some of it is of course on the stories, but let us hope that the new companion gets to be a lesbian. That would be a huge step towards avoiding the cliche.
Tennant has definitely been the best actor of the reboot, best episode was probably midnight. I like that Matt smith really amped up on the alien nature of the doctor, but it also gets pretty tiring seeing a manic guy rush around every which way. Tennant had wonder for life, not necessarily a high. They're all good, definitely sad that Eccelston never got more time as the 9th doctor, my fondest hope is they do a time war movie showing how the 8th doctor died and all that. They both deserve more air time.
On September 03 2012 07:42 whatevername wrote: Tennant has definitely been the best actor of the reboot, best episode was probably midnight. I like that Matt smith really amped up on the alien nature of the doctor, but it also gets pretty tiring seeing a manic guy rush around every which way. Tennant had wonder for life, not necessarily a high. They're all good, definitely sad that Eccelston never got more time as the 9th doctor, my fondest hope is they do a time war movie showing how the 8th doctor died and all that. They both deserve more air time.
Tennant is the best all around doctor, his timelord is dignified, often profoundly elated and uplifting or otherwise darkly contemplative and brooding. Matt smith's doctor though, simply nails the big moments. Speeches like "the one thing you never put in a trap" and "run" or jawdropping scenes like smith slamming the door in future amys face and putting her life in rory's hands(plus badass instances like siking the tardis on the dark planet and heartfelt moments such as showing a baby the stars) are far more engaging and/or awing then Tennant's greatest moments. Also Matt smith is much much funnier(he just seems to have a broader range of emotions as an actor).
So like, I want to get back into Doctor Who, but I'm wondering if I should start from the beginning (which is a long fucking time ago!) or somewhere in the middle. I got into it about 4 years ago on BBC (America), but due to life complications I was unable to stick with it and have not seen it for a while.
On September 03 2012 12:43 VashTS wrote: So like, I want to get back into Doctor Who, but I'm wondering if I should start from the beginning (which is a long fucking time ago!) or somewhere in the middle. I got into it about 4 years ago on BBC (America), but due to life complications I was unable to stick with it and have not seen it for a while.
What do you guys recommend?
Start with the bbc reboot from the mid 2000's. Its 6 seasons to watch as opposed to trying to fit in all of the original work. If you have the time to watch from the original series and continue on then do so but with time as a limiting factor start with series 1 and watch the 6 seasons.
On September 03 2012 06:16 leveller wrote: Tennant and Echelston are awesome I dont like Matt Smith though cant wait to see him replaced and get a new doctor/companion (getting a bit sick of amy too).
I am not really sure why people feel that way. To me Eccelston was very original in his way of playing the doctor and really developed the series. Everything went bad, from my view when Tennant took over. He overplayed it so much in the beginning and the combination of him and Billie did not seem to work that well. Don't get me wrong, I probably loved "The Girl In The Fireplace" and "Love & Monsters" as much as the next one, but I do not attribute it as much to the main actors on the show as much as the brilliant scripts/execution. The acting improved a lot with Freema as companion and "Gridlock" and "Blink" are brilliant pieces with Gridlock really showing Tennant as a brilliant piece in a "do androids dream of electric sheep?"-world (The book inspiring the film Blade Runner even though the book has a much more depressing and dystopian tone. For people knowing how dark the film is, it does say a lot). With Tate as companion the acting was a bit hit and miss. To me Matt Smith has moved the series a lot closer to how it was played by Tom Baker and I do like the olden days. The quality of some of the stories has decreased a little even though they are still above their competition.
Generally I like the somewhat awkward madness portrayed by Matt Smith more than the rambling and emotional acting of Tennant. The doctor of the olden days is cynical about humans and feelings and Eccleston mostly followed through on that style. Tennant and Smith has had some of the "sexual tention" with the companions we see in almost all modern shows. Some of it is of course on the stories, but let us hope that the new companion gets to be a lesbian. That would be a huge step towards avoiding the cliche.
I agree here. Tennant has become something of a fan favorite for sticking with the show during its reboot, but I think he's actually been the least awesome (still pretty awesome) Doctor. Eccleston was great, I was disappointed when he quit to avoid being typecast. I feel Matt Smith has taken Tennant's Doctor and really ran with it, improving it.
Eccleston said in an interview he quit because he didnt like the atmosphere on set, he didnt get along with the people I suppose. He wants to do more Dr.Who in the future.
Well, the Dr has his stetson now-- and given if you recall, the day he died how happy and sad he was to see amy/rory, I suspect hes going to be wearing it in the next two episodes as well. Right up until they die.
On September 16 2012 13:25 whatevername wrote: Well, the Dr has his stetson now-- and given if you recall, the day he died how happy and sad he was to see amy/rory, I suspect hes going to be wearing it in the next two episodes as well. Right up until they die.
On September 16 2012 13:25 whatevername wrote: Well, the Dr has his stetson now-- and given if you recall, the day he died how happy and sad he was to see amy/rory, I suspect hes going to be wearing it in the next two episodes as well. Right up until they die.
Wait, Rory and Amy die?
Its not confirmed but there last episode is two from now, and I'm pretty damn sure they will. Theres been a few hints throughout the series that Amy will die to a weeping angel, her last episode they meet one. Likewise as I said, the doctor seemed quite sad and now he has that stetson- seems to be lining up pretty well.
Matt smith: “What’s really interesting about these next five episodes… it deals with the fall of the Ponds and the demise of those two great companions that the Doctor is hugely, hugely attached to and had such a significant impact on him as a character and for me as an actor. So that’s bound to be an event that flips his universe massively.”
“[The Doctor] becomes a slightly different man. He even dresses differently. We are going to do the story properly of the Doctor having lost a friend and making a new one. We’re not taking that lightly.”
On September 16 2012 13:25 whatevername wrote: Well, the Dr has his stetson now-- and given if you recall, the day he died how happy and sad he was to see amy/rory, I suspect hes going to be wearing it in the next two episodes as well. Right up until they die.
Wait, Rory and Amy die?
Its not confirmed but there last episode is two from now, and I'm pretty damn sure they will. Theres been a few hints throughout the series that Amy will die to a weeping angel, her last episode they meet one. Likewise as I said, the doctor seemed quite sad and now he has that stetson- seems to be lining up pretty well.
Matt smith: “What’s really interesting about these next five episodes… it deals with the fall of the Ponds and the demise of those two great companions that the Doctor is hugely, hugely attached to and had such a significant impact on him as a character and for me as an actor. So that’s bound to be an event that flips his universe massively.”
“[The Doctor] becomes a slightly different man. He even dresses differently. We are going to do the story properly of the Doctor having lost a friend and making a new one. We’re not taking that lightly.”
Oooooooohhhhhh interesting. While I don't want to see something like that happen it would be amazing for the development of the Doctor as a character. I mean giving up Rose was one thing, losing Amy would be another altogether.
On September 17 2012 11:55 JingleHell wrote: For any fans who needed an excuse to get into TL Mafia, Deconduo is hosting a Doctor Who? themed Mafia game, with myself as co-host.
On September 17 2012 11:55 JingleHell wrote: For any fans who needed an excuse to get into TL Mafia, Deconduo is hosting a Doctor Who? themed Mafia game, with myself as co-host.
I remember watching it as a kid over 30 years ago. Remember some robots that had rays coming out of their eyes. Think he[Dr. Who] had a long scarf or something, and was looking like an odd fellow, but my memory might be way off, since it has been a while.
On September 27 2012 09:47 ZeromuS wrote: So how do people think the ponds will leave? I don't see them dying since angels don't readily kill people in the traditional sense.
Any other thoughts on this?
Well, they do sometimes but your right I doubt the angels will snap their necks or something [it just doesnt feel right]. I guess whatever they do will have to be such that the doctor cant influence it, like creating a time locked bubble or something where there sent back to time. I donno. I guess its conceivable they wont even die but will just be so horrified by whatever happens that they abandon the doctor.
On September 27 2012 09:53 Dracolich70 wrote: I remember watching it as a kid over 30 years ago. Remember some robots that had rays coming out of their eyes. Think he[Dr. Who] had a long scarf or something, and was looking like an odd fellow, but my memory might be way off, since it has been a while.
That would be Tom Baker, one of the best classic Doctors.
As to how the Ponds will leave, the angels will probably zap them back in time or something like that, either that or amy dies and Rory will have to live his life alone knowing he has lost amy forever
Thanks. Forgot to add, that I loved the series, and I remember it vaguely after all these years because it did make an impact on me. Just thought the series died back then. It never continued in my country.
On September 27 2012 18:06 Dracolich70 wrote: @Zanulf.
Thanks. Forgot to add, that I loved the series, and I remember it vaguely after all these years because it did make an impact on me. Just thought the series died back then. It never continued in my country.
Yeah the original series died off in 1989 as it did not capture enough viewers in the UK at the time. A film in 1996 made only limited impact. The show was relaunched 2005 with a massive budget and it has used a lot of Computer Generated Interfaces (first season of the new series was shown late in the evening on DR and a rebroadcast happened a day later in the afternoon). The new show has probably been a pretty fine success for BBC even though it is hard to really measure over the 50+ countries it has been sold to! In 2012 Matt Smith(Doctor Who?), Karen Gillian (Amy Pond), Arthur Darvill (Rory Pond) was at Comic Con at a Nerd HQ Q&A and with Steven Moffat (Executive Producer) and Caroline Skinner (Executive Producer) in the Doctor Who Panel. You can also see them Featured at the Nerdist premium youtube partner channel.
How the Ponds get out of the series? My personal guess is that they realise that they need the real world more than the doctor after Rorys dad getting sick and a very unpleasant travel.
On September 27 2012 18:06 Dracolich70 wrote: @Zanulf.
Thanks. Forgot to add, that I loved the series, and I remember it vaguely after all these years because it did make an impact on me. Just thought the series died back then. It never continued in my country.
Yeah the original series died off in 1989 as it did not capture enough viewers in the UK at the time. A film in 1996 made only limited impact. The show was relaunched 2005 with a massive budget and it has used a lot of Computer Generated Interfaces (first season of the new series was shown late in the evening on DR and a rebroadcast happened a day later in the afternoon). The new show has probably been a pretty fine success for BBC even though it is hard to really measure over the 50+ countries it has been sold to! In 2012 Matt Smith(Doctor Who?), Karen Gillian (Amy Pond), Arthur Darvill (Rory Pond) was at Comic Con at a Nerd HQ Q&A and with Steven Moffat (Executive Producer) and Caroline Skinner (Executive Producer) in the Doctor Who Panel. You can also see them Featured at the Nerdist premium youtube partner channel.
How the Ponds get out of the series? My personal guess is that they realise that they need the real world more than the doctor after Rorys dad getting sick and a very unpleasant travel.
That episode was absolutely brilliant however... + Show Spoiler +
I feel like it was a missed opportunity to not bring in Rory's dad at least once in the episode. Most likely at the end after his uplifting message to them last week. This isn't a problem with the episode but in my opinion a missed opportunity. Still incredibly good and a fitting end to the Amy Pond story-line
I was sad as fuck when Rose went to the alt dimension. I felt like I was going to be with rory/amy killing themselves too, but their survival really cut into that for me. Thats fine I guess, it doesnt have to be super sad, but I'm a little shocked you people found it so anyway. Their sudden survival jarred me right out of that mindset.
On September 30 2012 12:11 whatevername wrote: I was sad as fuck when Rose went to the alt dimension. I felt like I was going to be with rory/amy killing themselves too, but their survival really cut into that for me. Thats fine I guess, it doesnt have to be super sad, but I'm a little shocked you people found it so anyway. Their sudden survival jarred me right out of that mindset.
I agree that threw me off. It would have been a way more dramatic and fitting ending..
I still dont understand why he cant see them again, so he cant travel back to manhattan during that time period anymore. What exactly is to stop Rory and Amy traveling to a different bloody city so he can pick them up. Or you know River moving them through time when she goes back to give Amy the book anyway....
I still dont understand why he cant see them again, so he cant travel back to manhattan during that time period anymore. What exactly is to stop Rory and Amy traveling to a different bloody city so he can pick them up. Or you know River moving them through time when she goes back to give Amy the book anyway....
Sometimes time can be rewritten... other times it cant. By now I just roll with the punches of the show and accept what I'm told lol because it never makes sense when you think about it again.
Just to bring up a similar example, remember madame de pompadour or whatever her name was in versailles? She died before he could see her again because he was too late... Why didnt he just take the tardis to a few months earlier so he could say goodbye to her?
I thought the episode started off great, but then went to shit as soon as they found a dying Rory.
I would've much preferred them to die after they jumped off the building. Now instead we get some half-assed ending by some "weak survivor" of the angels. The reason I'm calling it half assed is because it doesn't make any sense, first off, a paradox would kill them(The angels) all? Guess not, creating another paradox would rip new york apart? What paradox would there be if they continued traveling with the Doctor and ended up dying at the point they would have? Not to mention the attempt at giving them a "happy ending". I can't believe so many people thought this was a fitting ending. They died a meaningless death caused by a survivor of their "ultimate sacrifice" my head was on my desk from lameness by the end of this episode.
On September 30 2012 20:16 Linkirvana wrote: Tyr, yes that was souflé girl.
Whining about latest episode:
I thought the episode started off great, but then went to shit as soon as they found a dying Rory.
I would've much preferred them to die after they jumped off the building. Now instead we get some half-assed ending by some "weak survivor" of the angels. The reason I'm calling it half assed is because it doesn't make any sense, first off, a paradox would kill them(The angels) all? Guess not, creating another paradox would rip new york apart? What paradox would there be if they continued traveling with the Doctor and ended up dying at the point they would have? Not to mention the attempt at giving them a "happy ending". I can't believe so many people thought this was a fitting ending. They died a meaningless death caused by a survivor of their "ultimate sacrifice" my head was on my desk from lameness by the end of this episode.
was a bit of an anti-climax at the end when they died twice, but the rest of the episode had good filmography. Hopefully the new girl will inject some much needed x factor
On September 30 2012 23:45 Fym wrote: was a bit of an anti-climax at the end when they died twice, but the rest of the episode had good filmography. Hopefully the new girl will inject some much needed x factor
I want to know who gets to deliver the news to all the people Rory and Amelia had a life constructed around. I'm comforted by the fact that the new companion is hot though.
On September 30 2012 19:30 Qikz wrote: As someone who's watched nearly every episode of Doctor Who ever, I thought last night was easily in the BOTTOM 10. It was terrible.
You must really hate endings too.
I can't believe people are pointing out plot holes/unrealistic shit in dr who. Just think 'timey whimey' and enjoy it for what it is.
On September 30 2012 19:30 Qikz wrote: As someone who's watched nearly every episode of Doctor Who ever, I thought last night was easily in the BOTTOM 10. It was terrible.
You must really hate endings too.
I can't believe people are pointing out plot holes/unrealistic shit in dr who. Just think 'timey whimey' and enjoy it for what it is.
Well that is fine and dandy when they keep it within reason. I am willing to give a lot of things a pass but sometimes it is just so blatantly and badly over the top that it destroys my immersion and my suspension of disbelief like it did in this episode.
For my part I also think this ep was badly paced mainly due to + Show Spoiler +
the "foreshadowing" with the gravestone and the meaninglessness of the suicide scene.
Another problem in my opinion was that it wasn't in any way a fitting continuation of the themes in the previous episode. But that is just taste. I rather would have liked them to just leave to continue their lives.
And btw. Qikz only said it was terrible in his opinion so any response falls flat cause he never said why it was terrible so you can't address his reasons and you can't negate his opinion only because it is different from yours.
On September 30 2012 19:30 Qikz wrote: As someone who's watched nearly every episode of Doctor Who ever, I thought last night was easily in the BOTTOM 10. It was terrible.
You must really hate endings too.
I can't believe people are pointing out plot holes/unrealistic shit in dr who. Just think 'timey whimey' and enjoy it for what it is.
Well that is fine and dandy when they keep it within reason. I am willing to give a lot of things a pass but sometimes it is just so blatantly and badly over the top that it destroys my immersion and my suspension of disbelief like it did in this episode.
For my part I also think this ep was badly paced mainly due to + Show Spoiler +
the "foreshadowing" with the gravestone and the meaninglessness of the suicide scene.
Another problem in my opinion was that it wasn't in any way a fitting continuation of the themes in the previous episode. But that is just taste. I rather would have liked them to just leave to continue their lives.
And btw. Qikz only said it was terrible in his opinion so any response falls flat cause he never said why it was terrible so you can't address his reasons and you can't negate his opinion only because it is different from yours.
All my dislike of steven moffat's writing can be summed up by the bolded. I know it's just pretend but it could at least be internally consistent.
Was a decent episode up until just before the end. The atmosphere was great. The ending's 'explanation', however, stank of weak story telling. + Show Spoiler +
One angel just happened to survive to be able to take Rory... c'mon. Felt rushed to basically have them die, reappear, and then disappear a few moments later.
Didn't think the acting or characterisation was particularly convincing in that scene either. The Doctor seemed....too human?
Good episode but that scene left a sour note afterwards.
I'm glad to see the Ponds off the show (not because I dislike them but because it's really time for a new companion). And the first episode of this season was awesome and the girl in that episode is the new companion I think.
Other than that, this episode was poorly paced and probably deserved two episodes.
The doctor has cried and shrieked and even practically murdered his own companions, hes often had 'human' outbursts... and it actually does make sense one angel survived, the whole building 'unhappened', so too did the angels that were a product of it-- but it didnt appear out of thin air, there was still some originator angel that started up the whole takeover of manhattan. So whats the issue?
There are confusing aspects though:
1) Howd the doctor even get to manhattan if he cant time travel there? Possible explanation is that the time errors were only in the past because Angels always threw individuals further back than 2012, but thats oddly strange and a bit ad hoc.
2) How did Amy/Rory get the book yet fail to still have the capacity to get into the tardis? What stopped them from leaving manhattan!? Possible explanation is that them leaving manhattan could cause some kind of paradox since it was already fated they would die there, yet I dont think thats very plausible: They could easily leave yet still be fated to be buried there, so there isnt necessarily a paradox.
Okay so I don't wanna get into nitpick type criticisms because, as others have mentioned if you can't suspend your disbelief maybe Doctor Who isn't for you. In terms of storytelling, however, I have fixed this episode and should be hired immediately by the BBC:
1) They did need a 4th person for this episode to flow nicely, but bringing in River Song was awkward. Have the 4th be Rory's dad. Then everything progresses as it did, except instead of Amy making the sacrifice twice by + Show Spoiler +
ambushed by the leftover angel, and Rory would have had to make the decision to touch the angel and risk it all to be with her.
Then Rory's dad would have been the one encouraging Rory to take a leap of faith instead of River encouraging Amy, you get some nice parallels and the audience doesn't have to suffer through River Song's arrogant crap and the awkwardness caused by her calling Amy "mother."
No need to have it be a Rose Tyler-esque 'you'd be lost forever' ending. The Doctor has visited many fixed points in time, and just because he can't undo what happened, doesn't mean he can't go back. There isn't a good explanation for the "I could never see you again" line, aside from some vague carry-over from the beginning about the temporal distortions in 1930s New York making it difficult to land the TARDIS.
For one The entire statue of liberty being able to move across the bay and get to that one spot without being looked at by a single person, especially when there's more than likely a person watching it constantly was a pretty bad idea.
Secondly the cherub angels were just completely tacked on and added nothing to the episode at all. I mean what on earth were they doing in that guys basement (I know he was a collector or something) but honestly, how did he even get them there in the first place, how didn't they get out?
Finally why the hell was the angel still while behind a curtain? Also unless they have some kind of magic chains, I don't get how the thing didn't get out. Whenever you see any of them they move incredibly fast almost as if they're blinking around, but conviniently they ignored this for an incredibly stupid plot point.
Another couple of problems I had were these. The angel touching Rory was bad enough, but the one getting amy made no sense. Both the Doctor and River were staring at it, why did only Amy blinking make it teleport her back in time?
Also Why did her getting touched create a fixed point in time? Why couldn't they just go up to the roof and jump off again leading to them being back where the Doctor was? It literally made no sense at all.
Easily one of the bottom five for me, if only because it should have been so much more than just another mediocre filler episode. The story felt weak, the ending felt more like it was tacked on for the sake of it rather than conforming with anything laid out in the episode, the angels have lost all effect on me (we get it, you turn into mean faces with fangs after the lights flicker) and while I normally don't mind plotholes, there is a difference between plotholes necessitated by the flow of the story and giant irrational chunks which you're bashed over the head with.
It's hard to believe that the same man who wrote so many feels into Silence in the Library managed to make me feel nothing this time.
Yep this was without a doubt one of the worse episodes of Dr. Who. Moffats writing is really going down hill now, i mean really? the statue of liberty? and no one saw it in "the city that never sleeps" as the Dr. said earlier in the episode. As for plot holes goes this episode was full of them, and i know its Dr. Who and all can be explained with Timey whimey but cmon.
1) New York being dificult to reach because of all the "Time Distortion", well he did not have any trouble landing in Manhattan with martha in Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks and that was right after the wall street crash.
2) Rorys death, So we got to see rory die again in this episode and 3 times if one wasnt enough. At the begining of the episode we see the grave stone with Rorys name on it some type of foreshadowing i suppose. Knowing that the paradox was going to happen all along (no Paradox, no book) then you get to the point were the angel at the end of the episode was in fact the reason rorys name was on the gravestone at the begining, and when Amy jumps of the building with him you know both will go at the end (one wont live without the other)
3) River being in manhattan, well this is a lucky coincidence, keeping in mind she is traveling with a Time agents Vortex manipulator...so let me get this straight, the Dr. with a TARDIS can hardly land in New york but river can go there no problem with a vortex manipulator (The Dr. called this a Space Hop compared to his Ferrari in Utopia/Sound of the Drums/Last of the Timelords) OFC she had to be there tho, she had to say farewell to her parents somehow
But the biggest question of all is....how on earth did the book get into the Doctors jacket?
On September 30 2012 19:30 Qikz wrote: As someone who's watched nearly every episode of Doctor Who ever, I thought last night was easily in the BOTTOM 10. It was terrible.
I agree, it was absolutely horrid. I don't give a toss about any plotholes. It just felt corny and rushed. The whole slow motion running to the book, the part where they were falling off the building. It all just feel cheesy and weird and not convincing at all.
For my taste the entire show is getting way to corny and emotional in a stupid way over the last seasons, but this was really one of the worst episodes. The writing was worse than in the worst TNG episode.. Don't they have focus groups for the writing? It didn't feel like the script was read by a second writer but rushed over a weekend with too much cocaine. I hope the next companion will bring the witt back and leave the woe at home.
On October 02 2012 02:55 aqui wrote: For my taste the entire show is getting way to corny and emotional in a stupid way over the last seasons, but this was really one of the worst episodes. The writing was worse than in the worst TNG episode.. Don't they have focus groups for the writing? It didn't feel like the script was read by a second writer but rushed over a weekend with too much cocaine. I hope the next companion will bring the witt back and leave the woe at home.
I've read the next companion will be the soufflez girl, she seemed pretty sharp =D
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
How exactly did it 'ruin' them? Also, Amy got over her crush relatively early in the series and was devoted to Rory thereafter.
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
It does get a little old. On that vein I'm looking forward to having a male companion as well, rory/jack were just secondary companions. Seems odd that the Doctor is apparently just looking for fun interesting people to travel with yet practically only does so with nubile young women.
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
It does get a little old. On that vein I'm looking forward to having a male companion as well, rory/jack were just secondary companions. Seems odd that the Doctor is apparently just looking for fun interesting people to travel with yet practically only does so with nubile young women.
Wouldn't you want to travel with hot sexy ladies if it were up to you.
I like quite a lot of Moffat's episodes, but I do dislike his attitude towards the series as a whole.
Most of series 5 was great, in fact especially Moffat's episodes, but I feel he got a bit indulgent in series 6 and 7. He just wants to shows off and self reference and it's never very clever.
I thought episode 2 was just dreadful. It was all just showing off, dinosaurs on a spaceship, 'because we could', not to mention brining in all manner of celebrity 'actors'. The actual plot was so low on the list of priorities it didn't really feature.
Still not as bad as episode 2 of last series, The curse of the black spot, probably the worst episode ever. Again an episode where the writers just said how can we get pirates into doctor who, and then didn't really care what it turned out like as long as there were pirates.
The best episodes are usually the ones that take place in relatively normal surroundings.
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
It does get a little old. On that vein I'm looking forward to having a male companion as well, rory/jack were just secondary companions. Seems odd that the Doctor is apparently just looking for fun interesting people to travel with yet practically only does so with nubile young women.
He does travel with male companions, Rory's Dad for instance, and I think he showed Donna's Dad around? The thing is, it doesn't make good television cause there is no sexual tension . so they just say he's traveling with them instead of showing it.
Think were stuck with attractive female + The Doctor
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
It does get a little old. On that vein I'm looking forward to having a male companion as well, rory/jack were just secondary companions. Seems odd that the Doctor is apparently just looking for fun interesting people to travel with yet practically only does so with nubile young women.
He does travel with male companions, Rory's Dad for instance, and I think he showed Donna's Dad around? The thing is, it doesn't make good television cause there is no sexual tension . so they just say he's traveling with them instead of showing it.
Think were stuck with attractive female + The Doctor
On another note, I'd like to see a female doctor.
He never traveled with Rorys dad. The post Cards were of Brians trips on Earth; the doctor offered further travels on the power of three and he said no. No idea about Donna's Dad, I dont recall. I think it could be good television to have a kind of quirky Doctor with maybe an action hero type male. Oh well.
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
It does get a little old. On that vein I'm looking forward to having a male companion as well, rory/jack were just secondary companions. Seems odd that the Doctor is apparently just looking for fun interesting people to travel with yet practically only does so with nubile young women.
He does travel with male companions, Rory's Dad for instance, and I think he showed Donna's Dad around? The thing is, it doesn't make good television cause there is no sexual tension . so they just say he's traveling with them instead of showing it.
Think were stuck with attractive female + The Doctor
On another note, I'd like to see a female doctor.
He never traveled with Rorys dad. The post Cards were of Brians trips on Earth; the doctor offered further travels on the power of three and he said no. No idea about Donna's Dad, I dont recall. I think it could be good television to have a kind of quirky Doctor with maybe an action hero type male. Oh well.
His name was Cap'n Jack
Glad to see the back of Amy and Rory. I didn't really feel like they offered much, Rory was appallingly weak-willed towards his wife and pretty bad at being forceful when fighting for her. Add to which the quality of the writing does seem to have gone downhill a bit.
Here's hoping the new companion will be a bit more interesting. I liked her attitude in the episode so far and it might be refreshing to see someone who can match the Doctor on an intellectual level for a change - anyone remember Adric or Romana? Seconding the hope that she's not taken with the Doctor, but we have to remember that River is on the scene and her and the Doctor are starting to heat up.
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
It does get a little old. On that vein I'm looking forward to having a male companion as well, rory/jack were just secondary companions. Seems odd that the Doctor is apparently just looking for fun interesting people to travel with yet practically only does so with nubile young women.
He does travel with male companions, Rory's Dad for instance, and I think he showed Donna's Dad around? The thing is, it doesn't make good television cause there is no sexual tension . so they just say he's traveling with them instead of showing it.
Think were stuck with attractive female + The Doctor
On another note, I'd like to see a female doctor.
He never traveled with Rorys dad. The post Cards were of Brians trips on Earth; the doctor offered further travels on the power of three and he said no. No idea about Donna's Dad, I dont recall. I think it could be good television to have a kind of quirky Doctor with maybe an action hero type male. Oh well.
His name was Cap'n Jack
Glad to see the back of Amy and Rory. I didn't really feel like they offered much, Rory was appallingly weak-willed towards his wife and pretty bad at being forceful when fighting for her. Add to which the quality of the writing does seem to have gone downhill a bit.
Here's hoping the new companion will be a bit more interesting. I liked her attitude in the episode so far and it might be refreshing to see someone who can match the Doctor on an intellectual level for a change - anyone remember Adric or Romana? Seconding the hope that she's not taken with the Doctor, but we have to remember that River is on the scene and her and the Doctor are starting to heat up.
OMG Romana was awesome!!!! Lets hope they bring her back for the 50th aniversary (one can wish) Adric was a really good companion aswell, he even got a little nod in the power of three. We need more companions like the old ones well except susan, oh god i could not stand susan...
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
It does get a little old. On that vein I'm looking forward to having a male companion as well, rory/jack were just secondary companions. Seems odd that the Doctor is apparently just looking for fun interesting people to travel with yet practically only does so with nubile young women.
He does travel with male companions, Rory's Dad for instance, and I think he showed Donna's Dad around? The thing is, it doesn't make good television cause there is no sexual tension . so they just say he's traveling with them instead of showing it.
Donna's dad was the companion for Tennant's last episode which I loved. Bernard Cribbins was the actor and it was one of my favourite pairings in the show. Could definitely pull that off for a few episodes.
I don't know how the Oswin/whoever thing is going to work but it would be really nice to have an alien companion (or at least slightly non-human) for a bit. I think we know enough about the Doctor and the universe that we don't need a human conduit anymore.
One news article I read has either spoiled it for us or just completely miss-interpreted (or maybe I did) the first episode of this series. I'd imagine it's the latter but they said + Show Spoiler +
Oswin was turned into a Dalek and was human before. She'd probably recognise the Doctor I suppose but regardless. I'd like it to be a bit smarter/more satisfying than that.
One news article I read has either spoiled it for us or just completely miss-interpreted (or maybe I did) the first episode of this series. I'd imagine it's the latter but they said + Show Spoiler +
Oswin was turned into a Dalek and was human before. She'd probably recognise the Doctor I suppose but regardless. I'd like it to be a bit smarter/more satisfying than that.
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character.
I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,.
It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival.
It does get a little old. On that vein I'm looking forward to having a male companion as well, rory/jack were just secondary companions. Seems odd that the Doctor is apparently just looking for fun interesting people to travel with yet practically only does so with nubile young women.
He does travel with male companions, Rory's Dad for instance, and I think he showed Donna's Dad around? The thing is, it doesn't make good television cause there is no sexual tension . so they just say he's traveling with them instead of showing it.
Think were stuck with attractive female + The Doctor
On another note, I'd like to see a female doctor.
He never traveled with Rorys dad. The post Cards were of Brians trips on Earth; the doctor offered further travels on the power of three and he said no. No idea about Donna's Dad, I dont recall. I think it could be good television to have a kind of quirky Doctor with maybe an action hero type male. Oh well.
His name was Cap'n Jack
Glad to see the back of Amy and Rory. I didn't really feel like they offered much, Rory was appallingly weak-willed towards his wife and pretty bad at being forceful when fighting for her. Add to which the quality of the writing does seem to have gone downhill a bit.
Here's hoping the new companion will be a bit more interesting. I liked her attitude in the episode so far and it might be refreshing to see someone who can match the Doctor on an intellectual level for a change - anyone remember Adric or Romana? Seconding the hope that she's not taken with the Doctor, but we have to remember that River is on the scene and her and the Doctor are starting to heat up.
Cap'n Jack would be an awesome companion indeed. And Ecclestone as Doctor please, all the other guys were all over the top. One can dream...
Who remembers the episode where the doctor claps and the tardis doors open? I wonder if anyone else remembers that he can do that (but we also never see the tardis key anymore either).
On October 02 2012 20:20 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Who remembers the episode where the doctor claps and the tardis doors open? I wonder if anyone else remembers that he can do that (but we also never see the tardis key anymore either).
Snaps his fingers you mean? That's in Silence in the Library, I'm pretty sure
On October 02 2012 20:20 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Who remembers the episode where the doctor claps and the tardis doors open? I wonder if anyone else remembers that he can do that (but we also never see the tardis key anymore either).
Snaps his fingers you mean? That's in Silence in the Library, I'm pretty sure
and what an excellent episode that was (or were there two of them? I forget).
But yes, I really have disliked this season, with the first and last being the most indulgent, but in a way that makes you feel dirty for actually enjoying it...
On October 02 2012 20:20 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Who remembers the episode where the doctor claps and the tardis doors open? I wonder if anyone else remembers that he can do that (but we also never see the tardis key anymore either).
Snaps his fingers you mean? That's in Silence in the Library, I'm pretty sure
and what an excellent episode that was (or were there two of them? I forget).
But yes, I really have disliked this season, with the first and last being the most indulgent, but in a way that makes you feel dirty for actually enjoying it...
On October 02 2012 20:20 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Who remembers the episode where the doctor claps and the tardis doors open? I wonder if anyone else remembers that he can do that (but we also never see the tardis key anymore either).
Snaps his fingers you mean? That's in Silence in the Library, I'm pretty sure
and what an excellent episode that was (or were there two of them? I forget).
But yes, I really have disliked this season, with the first and last being the most indulgent, but in a way that makes you feel dirty for actually enjoying it...
I am all for the theory that the episodes are in reverse, would probably make it more watchable
That is probably the right word for certain parts of this season: indulgent. Especially the beginning of Asylum of the Daleks and the last episode.
I would say that probably also goes for "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship". On the other hand I never had more sheer fun with a Dr.Who Episode so I am willing to forgive anything there.
Overall I have no problem with Moffat or his work some of his stuff is good some isn't. He did my favorite episode in the new series and one that I would place at the bottom if it wasn't for "Fear Her" which I simply HATED.
I thought Jenna-Louise Coleman did a great job in her first two appearances, and I appreciated the classic look of the new TARDIS interior. I just wish that I didn't have to wait months until learning more about what's going on with Clara. Also, the timeline raises some eyebrows, because
why didn't River show up? I have to think that she's gone off to the Library, leaving the Doctor to mourn her as well as the Ponds. After all, the fall half-season ended with her agreeing to travel with the Doctor, and I would have expected her to cheer him up instead of letting him just mope on his cloud. He also doesn't mention being married when Clara kisses him, and seemed quite smitten with her by the end. On the other hand, it would be a crazy tempo swing for River to get written out of the show like that, and it turns last year's plot arc into a bit of a joke. Thoughts?
One of my favorite things about Moffat's writing is his season-long story arcs - the cracks in time in the first season of Matt Smith, and the sliding door / the silence in the second. I know seasons are usually all written at once, but it's nice that he's actually using that to his advantage. I'm interested to see where he goes with Clara/Oswin's character. Even if I had nitpicks with the christmas special (felt a little fanservicy in parts) it was still a ton of fun.
It really frustrates me when people don't listen to the doctor. His name is "The Doctor" and he has a time machine. Just listen to him -_-. I feel like I won't get along with Clara for this reason.
On December 30 2012 13:42 rrwrwx wrote: It really frustrates me when people don't listen to the doctor. His name is "The Doctor" and he has a time machine. Just listen to him -_-. I feel like I won't get along with Clara for this reason.
The whole appeal of Clara's character is that she is a close equal to the doctor in more ways than one. Its rare that the doctor actually bothers to test a companion, yet he does so in this case because its clara's aggressive intelligence among other traits of hers that appeals to him. Also, yes he's the doctor and he has a time machine, but she is a twice confirmed dead chick who seems to be living out countless lives scattered throughout time and space. She is just as mysteries if not more so than the doctor, and extremely competent.
Better yet, the mystery of her appeals directly to the doctor's greatest desire, that of an equal companion who he cant really risk because she doesn't seem to actually die. Furthermore her enigma is a positive one, a unique challenge that will have the doctor searching for clues and leads across the cosmos, as opposed to the case of river song whose mystique is something that the doctor cannot immediately decipher because that would mean spoilers . ]
TLDR The days of companions being little more than tomagochi baggage/anime gasp characters are over!
On December 30 2012 12:53 MidnightGladius wrote: I thought Jenna-Louise Coleman did a great job in her first two appearances, and I appreciated the classic look of the new TARDIS interior. I just wish that I didn't have to wait months until learning more about what's going on with Clara. Also, the timeline raises some eyebrows, because
why didn't River show up? I have to think that she's gone off to the Library, leaving the Doctor to mourn her as well as the Ponds. After all, the fall half-season ended with her agreeing to travel with the Doctor, and I would have expected her to cheer him up instead of letting him just mope on his cloud. He also doesn't mention being married when Clara kisses him, and seemed quite smitten with her by the end. On the other hand, it would be a crazy tempo swing for River to get written out of the show like that, and it turns last year's plot arc into a bit of a joke. Thoughts?
In regards to the timeline, I got the impression that river is out of the show. They put an emphasis on how much time had really past since he helped humans. I was sad to see river go but assumed her timeline has passed the doctors.
On December 30 2012 13:42 rrwrwx wrote: It really frustrates me when people don't listen to the doctor. His name is "The Doctor" and he has a time machine. Just listen to him -_-. I feel like I won't get along with Clara for this reason.
The whole appeal of Clara's character is that she is a close equal to the doctor in more ways than one. Its rare that the doctor actually bothers to test a companion, yet he does so in this case because its clara's aggressive intelligence among other traits of hers that appeals to him. Also, yes he's the doctor and he has a time machine, but she is a twice confirmed dead chick who seems to be living out countless lives scattered throughout time and space. She is just as mysteries if not more so than the doctor, and extremely competent.
Better yet, the mystery of her appeals directly to the doctor's greatest desire, that of an equal companion who he cant really risk because she doesn't seem to actually die. Furthermore her enigma is a positive one, a unique challenge that will have the doctor searching for clues and leads across the cosmos, as opposed to the case of river song whose mystique is something that the doctor cannot immediately decipher because that would mean spoilers . ]
TLDR The days of companions being little more than tomagochi baggage/anime gasp characters are over!
and she seems to have the memory from previous lives
I have recently been introduced to this show on my holiday trip to a family gathering and i rather enjoyed it the two episodes i watched. Angels in Manhattan and the Snowmen one. Whats a good place to start watching the series, do i watch when Matt Smith joins the cast or do i need to go back more to know the insider information to things.
Also I tried to find an internet source to view any info on the series; monsters and such that reoccur in the series but i am afraid of spoilers. Any help is welcome. Thanks!
There are a few episodes to get started watching Doctor Who. Imo you either start at the very first episode of the new series (Ecclestons first episode), or the episode "Dalek", or David Tennants first episodes (the first Christmas special), or you start directly with the Matt Smith era and season 5-6. If you feel like it you can go back and watch the classic "Robot" arc (first of Tom Baker) as that is an absolute classic, and does a great job of introducing the show.
On December 30 2012 18:53 Sterlymobile wrote: I have recently been introduced to this show on my holiday trip to a family gathering and i rather enjoyed it the two episodes i watched. Angels in Manhattan and the Snowmen one. Whats a good place to start watching the series, do i watch when Matt Smith joins the cast or do i need to go back more to know the insider information to things.
Also I tried to find an internet source to view any info on the series; monsters and such that reoccur in the series but i am afraid of spoilers. Any help is welcome. Thanks!
The Christopher Eccleston episodes are kind of shakily written - some of it's extremely good (The Empty Child and the Doctor Dances are excellent) but some of it is likely to put you off. Watching Bad Wolf / Parting of the Ways helps to explain quite a bit about Captain Jack, though. That's helpful background.
New Earth (Series 2 Ep 1) is a good place to start on David Tennant. After that, just go right on through in order. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
Oh wow just realised I had completely forgotten about watching the Christmas special this year. Seems like it's a juicy one too. Will have to wait till Tuesday before catching it though
If you enjoy the series, i see no reason to skip half of it. You don't NEED to go far back, apparently at the moment a kind of new storyline is starting, so if you don't want to watch anything before for whatever reason, you should be fine. But it a good show to watch, so why not watch all of it.
It is kind of sad that you already saw "Angels in Manhattan", because that will make "Blink" far less cool, since the angels get worse the more you know about them.
This is pretty much required viewing for any Doctor Who fan! Awesome fan made trailer for the 50th anniversary, does have some spoilers though... nothing that you wouldn't pick up on instantly anyway
Promo for season seven, we have a new Dr Who partner! (already known after the Christmas special kind of)
Season seven continues with "The Bells of Saint John airing tonight in the UK (currently passed), and will be airing at 8pm EST in the USA on BBC America.
On March 31 2013 03:26 ranshaked wrote: Update! The 50th Anniversary will have both the 10th Doctor (David Tennant) and the beautiful Rose (Billie Piper) returning! This will be great.
That is awesome, although I'll also be kind of bummed if Eccleston (#9) isn't given a cameo as well. Seems a little less likely, since he wasn't as passionate about the role as Tennant was, but he is still my favorite Doctor incarnation.
I might watch this series, I've caught the odd 10 minutes of episodes before but never sat down to watch one. That was pretty good, definitely doesn't take itself too seriously.
Thought it was very interesting with a "mysterious" woman giving the Doctor's number. I think it was River. Also, I would like slowly more things getting revealed about Clara besides the fact that she's similar to her last version. Love the social media comments, thought that was funny, even thought I really don't use any.
I'm somewhat interested and I've never seen any episodes. Where would you recommend I start?
I'm sure it's somewhere in the last 25 pages, but I don't want to read 25 pages, but I'm sure the hardcore fans are going to come to page 25 regardless.
michael, just start with the new series, but read up a bit on the 96 movie because Chris Eccelston's doctor was a little harsh but when you look at what had happened recently in the doctor's story it makes sense and he grows on you if you dont like him too much after a few episodes go to season 5 episode 2 "the beast below" its a pretty damn good one
im so glad I found this thread...i LOVE Dr Who to the point where i have a Dalek tattoo and I am planning on getting a whole half sleeve dedicated to the show because it's been a part of my life for so long
On March 31 2013 07:56 michaelthe wrote: I'm somewhat interested and I've never seen any episodes. Where would you recommend I start?
I'm sure it's somewhere in the last 25 pages, but I don't want to read 25 pages, but I'm sure the hardcore fans are going to come to page 25 regardless.
If you just want to see a random episode to check the series out, the one recommended most often is Blink, the tenth episode of the third series (2007). It's a stand-alone episode that has minimal parts for the recurring characters, making it easy to follow without knowing anything about the series. It's also considered one of the best episodes of all, and gives a good sense of what kind of show Doctor Who is at its best. The downside is that since it doesn't feature the recurring characters much, it might not give a clear view of how the show is in the more standard episodes. But it's still a good start point if you just want to dip your toe in the water.
If you just want to plunge into the deep and start watching episodes on mass, there are imo only two real starting points: Rose the first episode of the first series of the revival (2005); or The Eleventh Hour the first episode of the fifth series (2010) and the first episode since the current head writer (Stephen Moffat) and the current Doctor (Matt Smith) took over. Both Rose and The Eleventh Hour are written to allow new viewers to start watching and don't require any prior knowledge to follow. The advantage of Rose is that you start at the beginning, so you get to see everything. The advantage of The Eleventh Hour is that you get to see the revived show after it has had time to establish itself and it hits the deck running so to speak. If you start at Rose you run the risk of being turned off by bad(/lesser) episodes from when the writers and crew were still figuring things out.
On March 31 2013 08:16 ToT)OjKa( wrote: Start at the first Eccelston's one. At the very least, watch "Dalek".
I found Eccelston's bit the most difficult to watch of 9, 10, 11 but did not regret watching them. After a quick google, I am half surprised/half not that there isn't a recommended episode list for hit time as the doctor. I just imagined there would be a mythos run for Dr. Who like there is for other classic sci fi series like X Files.
On March 31 2013 07:56 michaelthe wrote: I'm somewhat interested and I've never seen any episodes. Where would you recommend I start?
I'm sure it's somewhere in the last 25 pages, but I don't want to read 25 pages, but I'm sure the hardcore fans are going to come to page 25 regardless.
I've just starting watching this on a recommendation from a work mate. For some reason or the other, despite the fact that I love sci-fi, I never really got into Dr. Who. I watched the occasional episode with Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker as the doctor, and that was it. I started watching the renewed series with Chris Eccleston and have enjoyed it immensely.
Sure, you get a few dud episodes, but you also get some real good ones too. I realised i liked it after watching the third episode of the first series, The Unquiet Dead. Other favourites so far are Dalek, Father's Day, The Parting of the Ways, The Christmas Invasion, The Girl in the Fireplace, The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit (these last two are part 1 and part 2 of an imaginative cool horror story in the best sci-fi tradition).
If you are really keen to watch, I recommend starting with series one of the new Dr. Who (i.e. with Eccleston).
I started last weekend, and am just about to wrap up season two over this Easter weekend. It's a real fun show.
I stopped watching it a couple years ago. I didn't really liked Gaiman's writing on the show, though I loved Sandman and absolutely hated that Moffat had become lead writer, even though I loved "Blink". I liked Russell Davies more. Maybe I could give it another try.
I wasnt really convinced of the last few episodes of dr. who because the main story did not progress at all in my opinion but the next one seems to do this. I am looking forward to next week.
On April 21 2013 12:59 Chexx wrote: I wasnt really convinced of the last few episodes of dr. who because the main story did not progress at all in my opinion but the next one seems to do this. I am looking forward to next week.
I think it's because Steven Moffat trying a Russel T. Davies-like approach (Bad Wolf, Vote Saxon, etc.) for the Clara arc in which the Doctor travels around space and time with his companion with only hints of the main story sprinkled throughout the series.
On March 31 2013 11:09 TiTanIum_ wrote: I stopped watching it a couple years ago. I didn't really liked Gaiman's writing on the show, though I loved Sandman and absolutely hated that Moffat had become lead writer, even though I loved "Blink". I liked Russell Davies more. Maybe I could give it another try.
Gah fie your tongue! Personally really enjoyed Gaiman's episode and looking forward to his treatment of my favourite baddies the Cybermen later this year. Frankly the Cybermen have been a bit crappy in the reboot.
As for a recommended starting point, can I suggest the two-parter The Empty Child and the Doctor Dances. To me, these episodes exemplify the best of Dr Who, with a creepy setting, cool characters and showing the character of the doctor in his interactions with his companions, those he is helping and those he is fighting. Have to say a lot of the early episodes were kinda awesome even though Ecclestone is my least favourite of the modern doctors.
I really didn't like the rings episode. More often then not i prefer the "future" episodes over the "past" ones, since they are usually more creative (and because i really like SciFi) and paint cool future worlds.
However this one was mostly a lot of mystic mumbojumbo, and the resolution through having the doctor explaining just how cool he is for ages ONCE AGAIN with epic music in the background to a sun that was apparently eating memories and could be satisfied through singing for no apparent reason was pretty annoying. The whole "eat infinite possibilities leaf" thing was even more annoying. Really, the doctor needs to do smart stuff rather than that. In retrospect, there was not really anything i liked in this episode besides the few short minutes they ran across the market on that planet.
On April 24 2013 14:19 Simberto wrote: I really didn't like the rings episode. More often then not i prefer the "future" episodes over the "past" ones, since they are usually more creative (and because i really like SciFi) and paint cool future worlds.
However this one was mostly a lot of mystic mumbojumbo, and the resolution through having the doctor explaining just how cool he is for ages ONCE AGAIN with epic music in the background to a sun that was apparently eating memories and could be satisfied through singing for no apparent reason was pretty annoying. The whole "eat infinite possibilities leaf" thing was even more annoying. Really, the doctor needs to do smart stuff rather than that. In retrospect, there was not really anything i liked in this episode besides the few short minutes they ran across the market on that planet.
The show very often has mystic mumbo jumbo and wibbly wobbly stuff!
Remeber the episode "blink" and how the angels eat your "time". That is no less mystic mumbo jumbo than eating memories. The show's biggest appeal was to the emotion. We have a little queen who has all of her people's knowledge - representing future and hope against a hate and bitterness that feeds off past memories (represented by the gigantic sun).
The scale is very interesting. How the more positive aspects are so tiny and precious (the young child-queen) while the hateful aspect is gigantic (the star). The Doctor is the "adult" who steps in to protect what is precious; while the others are succumbing and submitting their memories to that star - some due to blind belief (the worshipers), some due to fear (like the priests).
I could go on, but that's just off the top of ma head.
/edit
Oh right. This might get some flak but how can the show find good AND pretty actress but not something similar to play the Doctor? Seems just a bit unfair yeah? 10th was cute though
On March 31 2013 08:22 ahswtini wrote: The thread title makes me sad....
It's been bothering me for ages. It's not like 'who' is his name.
Didn't realize this was a problem with this thread =) Changed the title.
I've watched up through the first few Matt Smith episodes after starting with the Eccelston episodes. The show is okay. In my opinion there's not a clear narrative and the episodes are only very loosely tied together, if at all. I guess that's just how it goes when a show has been on for decades. Some of the episodes are really hit or miss and the quality varies wildly from writer to writer which can make it hard to follow, but I feel like I didn't really have this problem with shows like ST:TNG. Not sure if I'll come back to this show to be honest.
Ah, but there is a large difference between mumbojumbo and wibblywobbly. Wibblywobbly is basically science, just not explained. And that is a large part of the series. Stuff works in rational ways. It might LOOK like ghosts, or vampires, but then the doctor is smart and/or the companion says something smart, and stuff gets figured out, and a smart solution is found.
This is also why i don't have a problem with the angels. They are weird, but the way they work is very defined, especially in the first episodes where they appear, and it makes sense following that weird logic. There are a lot of weird creatures (most of whom are people) in the Doctor Who universe, and i like that.
However, none of what i described above happened in this episode. There was no smartness, no figuring things out, no doing interesting things. There is just "It's an evil god, and singing stopped working, so now the doctor tells that thing how cool he is with epic music. Problem solved forever". I find this disappointing for the same reasons i found the ending of the new BSG disappointing. The whole "emotional" aspect also feeled very forced.
This is all of course very subjective, i just don't really like that forced overepic aspect that appears more and more often in the later parts of the series. I like the "smaller" episodes a lot more.
On April 24 2013 14:07 GreenManalishi wrote: I'm looking to get into this show, should I start with the new series, or go back to the original?
Don't bother with the original. The original was terrible (IMO). I absolutely love the new series though. It is really witty and funny and the characters are really good. The effects might make you cringe at the incredibly low quality of them, but that is part of the show and can be a lot of fun to laugh at.
I found the original series to be incredibly slow and painful to watch. It kind of has the plot development equivalent to the "Brady Bunch" which is a hell I wish on no one. If you are curious about the original just see if you can find a brief summary of it and save yourself the torture.
On April 24 2013 14:57 Simberto wrote: Ah, but there is a large difference between mumbojumbo and wibblywobbly. Wibblywobbly is basically science, just not explained. And that is a large part of the series. Stuff works in rational ways. It might LOOK like ghosts, or vampires, but then the doctor is smart and/or the companion says something smart, and stuff gets figured out, and a smart solution is found.
This is also why i don't have a problem with the angels. They are weird, but the way they work is very defined, especially in the first episodes where they appear, and it makes sense following that weird logic. There are a lot of weird creatures (most of whom are people) in the Doctor Who universe, and i like that.
However, none of what i described above happened in this episode. There was no smartness, no figuring things out, no doing interesting things. There is just "It's an evil god, and singing stopped working, so now the doctor tells that thing how cool he is with epic music. Problem solved forever". I find this disappointing for the same reasons i found the ending of the new BSG disappointing. The whole "emotional" aspect also feeled very forced.
This is all of course very subjective, i just don't really like that forced overepic aspect that appears more and more often in the later parts of the series. I like the "smaller" episodes a lot more.
You're right its subjective but it is a shame that the acting, dialogue, the music (and singing), and the overarching narrative of preserving hope in face of overwhelming odds was lost on you. But that's my Doctor; the lonesome warrior who stands for what's right even against a god.
What's also subjective is how we define what is smart and what isn't. Figuring out that a vampire is an alien is no more nor less smart that figuring out that the god was essentially a monstrous parasitic entity.
Anyone else have really mixed feelings about clara? I think she is a really charming companion, but I haven't really connected with her totally. Do you know what I mean?
On May 05 2013 13:36 Elliot wrote: Anyone else have really mixed feelings about clara? I think she is a really charming companion, but I haven't really connected with her totally. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah. I don't know what it is exactly about her though. Maybe I feel like it's a bit too rushed? I still miss Amy and Rose
The reason (I think) people don't like Clara is the fact that she so seamlessly joins the doctor on his adventures, rarely, if ever, questioning what is happening, ready to accept, without fear or wonder or real mystery. This is in start contrast to past companions (I am speaking 2005 onwards). The thing is, the companion is our surrogate, we, as the viewer, go on an adventure with the doctor, through clara, or whatever companion. That is why episodes without companions are worse, and that is also why there were two companions before Clara, it tapped into a larger audience. And watching the show, we want to wonder, to be surprised, to be scared, there needs to be mystery, we want to have to question etc. But Clara doesn't offer that, we wonder more about Clara in relation to the plot, and care less about the adventures. Clara is a prop, rather than our link to the doctor.
On May 05 2013 17:51 FireSA wrote: The reason (I think) people don't like Clara is the fact that she so seamlessly joins the doctor on his adventures, rarely, if ever, questioning what is happening, ready to accept, without fear or wonder or real mystery. This is in start contrast to past companions (I am speaking 2005 onwards). The thing is, the companion is our surrogate, we, as the viewer, go on an adventure with the doctor, through clara, or whatever companion. That is why episodes without companions are worse, and that is also why there were two companions before Clara, it tapped into a larger audience. And watching the show, we want to wonder, to be surprised, to be scared, there needs to be mystery, we want to have to question etc. But Clara doesn't offer that, we wonder more about Clara in relation to the plot, and care less about the adventures. Clara is a prop, rather than our link to the doctor.
Just my two cents.
I enjoy Clara, your right in saying the companion is us, but Clara is a really fun person and to be frank I would hope if I was a companion I'd be like that too, but I'm not a girl so I can't be a companion.
I've really enjoyed what I've seen of Clara so far, with the continuous hints that there is more to her than we know. I do wish they'd let on a little more, right now we have no idea what to expect except that she keeps reappearing again and again.
It's cool though, because it lets the Doctor be the viewpoint character. At this point, we know a lot about WHO Matt Smiths' Doctor is and we're discovering who Clara is. While we struggle with understanding Clara, it helps us understand ourselves at the same time, which is why paradoxically it will work when we look at some of the mysteries surrounding the Doctor's origins.
As for the giant sun-god... well, the doctor called it a parasite, but I felt like that was more a insult/taunt than anything else. Yeah, it's this bigass thing that could eat an entire race, but at the same time it provided all the heat and energy for that entire solar system (sounds more symbiotic than parasitic to me). The legend of what happens when the star awoke could just as well be explaining the growth of the sun into a red dwarf phase and then later going it going through the universe as a 'supernova' remnant. It's just that the sun was anthromorphized and could choose not to finish it's life cycle by draining psychic power from the sacrifices.
Ultimately, being mad at the sun for providing heat/energy at a price instead of free is pretty silly, at best, it shows the Doctor is flawed, at worst, it lets them push the anti-religious bs which I've come to expect from Doctor Who. I hope it's the former, because it has a lot of symbolic strength, if you use the episode as a metaphor for the next season arc. But it's probably the latter, and we're just seeing all different kinds of 'lonely gods' this season before we see how they relate to the Doctor.
I love Matt Smith as the doctor, maybe even more so than David Tennant. He plays the role so passionately. It's just unfortunate that David Tennant had the better writing(Don't get me wrong, I love DT too). Series 5 would be my favourite. All the episodes are great, it just goes a bit downhill in 6
As far as the companions go, my favourite would probably be Amy or Martha. I hate the fact that Rose left with the doctor in a committed relationship to Mickey, and then as soon as she left she flirted with the Doctor, Adam and Captain Jack, aswell as describing herself as single in one of the future episodes. She just seemed like an annoying and jealous character(Sarah Jane)
I like Clara too, I haven't really seen enough of her
I wouldn't say it is anti-religious to challenge a "god" that is essentially taking away all the precious memories from people. Religion has persecuted many innocents in the past, and the purpose of a "true" religion (w/e the fuck "true" is) would be to promote the well-being of its followers and not the reverse.
But that's just my 2 cents as a born-Buddhist who is now.. uhh, humanist?...
On May 05 2013 17:51 FireSA wrote: The reason (I think) people don't like Clara is the fact that she so seamlessly joins the doctor on his adventures, rarely, if ever, questioning what is happening, ready to accept, without fear or wonder or real mystery. This is in start contrast to past companions (I am speaking 2005 onwards). The thing is, the companion is our surrogate, we, as the viewer, go on an adventure with the doctor, through clara, or whatever companion. That is why episodes without companions are worse, and that is also why there were two companions before Clara, it tapped into a larger audience. And watching the show, we want to wonder, to be surprised, to be scared, there needs to be mystery, we want to have to question etc. But Clara doesn't offer that, we wonder more about Clara in relation to the plot, and care less about the adventures. Clara is a prop, rather than our link to the doctor.
Just my two cents.
wow really i like your thoughts about the companions! never looked at it this way great post
On March 31 2013 07:56 michaelthe wrote: I'm somewhat interested and I've never seen any episodes. Where would you recommend I start?
I'm sure it's somewhere in the last 25 pages, but I don't want to read 25 pages, but I'm sure the hardcore fans are going to come to page 25 regardless.
I've just starting watching this on a recommendation from a work mate. For some reason or the other, despite the fact that I love sci-fi, I never really got into Dr. Who. I watched the occasional episode with Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker as the doctor, and that was it. I started watching the renewed series with Chris Eccleston and have enjoyed it immensely.
Sure, you get a few dud episodes, but you also get some real good ones too. I realised i liked it after watching the third episode of the first series, The Unquiet Dead. Other favourites so far are Dalek, Father's Day, The Parting of the Ways, The Christmas Invasion, The Girl in the Fireplace, The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit (these last two are part 1 and part 2 of an imaginative cool horror story in the best sci-fi tradition).
If you are really keen to watch, I recommend starting with series one of the new Dr. Who (i.e. with Eccleston).
I started last weekend, and am just about to wrap up season two over this Easter weekend. It's a real fun show.
Well, I wrapped up series 6 last weekend. It's been great. I like Matt Smith's take on the Doctor, and I also liked David Tennant's. I think Smith gets an unfair rap because the overall quality of the series, in terms of writing, has taken a dip with the departure of Russell Davies and Moffat's taking over. I think series 6, on the whole, would be my least favourite series. There are some good episodes intermingled though, like The Doctor's Wife (written by Neil Gaiman), The Rebel Flesh + The Almost People, and Night Terror. My favourite series are series 5 (Smith) and series 3 (Tennant).
Interesting point above regarding the role of the companion, and Clara in relation. A workmate of mine whose recommendation got me into watching Dr. Who can't stand Clara. Amy and Donna are the two companions I've liked the most.
So, I'm utterly confused. Was this the Doctor between the time we didn't see, between Eight and Nine during this time war or something. Or is this a title of a man whose name he took before it all? I feel the need to watch it again, but at the same time my brain imploded from thinking on this. Because if there is technically only supposed to be so many Doctors, and his grave is the current Tardis, does that mean they plan to be one more Doctor after Smith? Well, I guess we have to wait until the 23rd for anything and then probably mid-late 2014 for Smith's supposed final season.
So, I'm utterly confused. Was this the Doctor between the time we didn't see, between Eight and Nine during this time war or something. Or is this a title of a man whose name he took before it all? I feel the need to watch it again, but at the same time my brain imploded from thinking on this. Because if there is technically only supposed to be so many Doctors, and his grave is the current Tardis, does that mean they plan to be one more Doctor after Smith? Well, I guess we have to wait until the 23rd for anything and then probably mid-late 2014 for Smith's supposed final season.
It mentioned somewhere that the Doctor could actually have up to 500 regenerations. So who knows which form it could really be.
So, I'm utterly confused. Was this the Doctor between the time we didn't see, between Eight and Nine during this time war or something. Or is this a title of a man whose name he took before it all? I feel the need to watch it again, but at the same time my brain imploded from thinking on this. Because if there is technically only supposed to be so many Doctors, and his grave is the current Tardis, does that mean they plan to be one more Doctor after Smith? Well, I guess we have to wait until the 23rd for anything and then probably mid-late 2014 for Smith's supposed final season.
It mentioned somewhere that the Doctor could actually have up to 500 regenerations. So who knows which form it could really be.
That was russel Davis during Sarah Jane and he even said most fans will still go with the original number, but it'll probably be up to Moffat or the next show runner ultimately.
So, I'm utterly confused. Was this the Doctor between the time we didn't see, between Eight and Nine during this time war or something. Or is this a title of a man whose name he took before it all? I feel the need to watch it again, but at the same time my brain imploded from thinking on this. Because if there is technically only supposed to be so many Doctors, and his grave is the current Tardis, does that mean they plan to be one more Doctor after Smith? Well, I guess we have to wait until the 23rd for anything and then probably mid-late 2014 for Smith's supposed final season.
It mentioned somewhere that the Doctor could actually have up to 500 regenerations. So who knows which form it could really be.
That was russel Davis during Sarah Jane and he even said most fans will still go with the original number, but it'll probably be up to Moffat or the next show runner ultimately.
He was pointing out that the limit of 13 was only mentioned once and had no explanation attached to it. Considering how much story has happened between then and now, it's completely up to the writers to decide if the Doctor has a limit at all.
Very cool ending I thought. I was wondering where this season would go in the larger sense but that last episode was pretty sweet, especially the last 5 minutes.
On May 19 2013 17:43 Vlanitak wrote: Guess if I can wait a year for a new GoT season waiting 6 months for a new Dr. Who cant Hurt
Oh, that pun. Also, sorry for excluding John Hurt from the poll, but I suppose it's safe to say he won't be the next Doctor.
As another Doctor Who season draws to a close (depending on how you figure seasonal specials in) and the rumors surrounding Smith and Moffat's continued presence on the show after Christmas I thought some polls could be interesting.
Poll: Best new series Doctor (based on actor alone)?
David Tennant (29)
50%
Matt Smith (22)
38%
Christopher Eccleston (7)
12%
58 total votes
Your vote: Best new series Doctor (based on actor alone)?
(Vote): Christopher Eccleston (Vote): David Tennant (Vote): Matt Smith
Poll: Best new series showrunner (companions/story arcs)?
Stephen Moffat (20)
61%
Russell T. Davies (13)
39%
33 total votes
Your vote: Best new series showrunner (companions/story arcs)?
Poll: Best new series companion (based on acting)?
Amy Pond (19)
36%
Rose Tyler (10)
19%
Clara Oswald (9)
17%
Donna Noble (6)
11%
Captain Jack Harkness (4)
8%
Martha Jones (3)
6%
Rory Williams (2)
4%
Mickey Smith (0)
0%
53 total votes
Your vote: Best new series companion (based on acting)?
(Vote): Rose Tyler (Vote): Captain Jack Harkness (Vote): Mickey Smith (Vote): Martha Jones (Vote): Donna Noble (Vote): Amy Pond (Vote): Rory Williams (Vote): Clara Oswald
A foreword on why I chose to list the following people for the next Doctor. Matt Smith is the current Doctor and has not yet confirmed whether he's staying or leaving after the Christmas special. Benedict Cumberbatch is the star of that Sherlock Holmes series and Khan in the new Star Trek movie; he has confirmed that he would like to play the Doctor. Helen Mirren is Helen Mirren; she has also confirmed that she would like to play the first female Doctor. David Mitchell was the joke filler option I chose; he beat out my other choices of Stephen Fry and Karl Pilkington. He's this guy: + Show Spoiler +
Poll: If you could choose the Doctor for 2014, it'd be...
Matt Smith (20)
48%
Benedict Cumberbatch (12)
29%
David Mitchell (5)
12%
Someone else (3)
7%
Helen Mirren (2)
5%
42 total votes
Your vote: If you could choose the Doctor for 2014, it'd be...
(Vote): Matt Smith (Vote): Benedict Cumberbatch (Vote): Helen Mirren (Vote): David Mitchell (Vote): Someone else
Poll: Should the BBC keep Moffat?
Yes, as showrunner (18)
64%
Yes, but just as a writer (8)
29%
No, they should replace him completely (2)
7%
28 total votes
Your vote: Should the BBC keep Moffat?
(Vote): Yes, as showrunner (Vote): Yes, but just as a writer (Vote): No, they should replace him completely
I like Matt Smith as the doctor and he has recently gotten much better at it but so many of the episodes are just duff ones due to the writing. Apart from the bad ones, I also don't really feel that 11 is ever going to lose in the episodes unlike some of 10's. Tennent just had some real badass episodes. Every time he was in a spacesuit or a spaceship you know it was gonna be a sweet episode.
I know 9 and 10 had some duff episodes too but they had memorable ones also.
On May 05 2013 13:36 Elliot wrote: Anyone else have really mixed feelings about clara? I think she is a really charming companion, but I haven't really connected with her totally. Do you know what I mean?
i think the problem is that everyone loves amy, and we are not over her yet
On May 05 2013 13:36 Elliot wrote: Anyone else have really mixed feelings about clara? I think she is a really charming companion, but I haven't really connected with her totally. Do you know what I mean?
i think the problem is that everyone loves amy, and we are not over her yet
I dunno, I find Moffat's companions to be overly complex and not very human. Amy was probably the closest thing to a traditional companion but her storyline still irked me.
I kinda miss the relatable companions, like Martha and Donna.
On May 05 2013 13:36 Elliot wrote: Anyone else have really mixed feelings about clara? I think she is a really charming companion, but I haven't really connected with her totally. Do you know what I mean?
i think the problem is that everyone loves amy, and we are not over her yet
I dunno, I find Moffat's companions to be overly complex and not very human. Amy was probably the closest thing to a traditional companion but her storyline still irked me.
I kinda miss the relatable companions, like Martha and Donna.
Overly complex is very human. Also, I disliked how Martha was writtern, but that wasn't the actress' fault, they wrote her as the "not-Rose" and didn't really have the personality to make it her own.
However, I loved Donna and Amy, and I feel like Clara will grow on me more. I like her. I just don't love like I do the others.
On May 19 2013 17:43 Vlanitak wrote: Guess if I can wait a year for a new GoT season waiting 6 months for a new Dr. Who cant Hurt
Oh, that pun. Also, sorry for excluding John Hurt from the poll, but I suppose it's safe to say he won't be the next Doctor.
As another Doctor Who season draws to a close (depending on how you figure seasonal specials in) and the rumors surrounding Smith and Moffat's continued presence on the show after Christmas I thought some polls could be interesting.
I believe they said they are a-go for season 8, but that it might be both Smith's and Moffat's last.
On May 05 2013 13:36 Elliot wrote: Anyone else have really mixed feelings about clara? I think she is a really charming companion, but I haven't really connected with her totally. Do you know what I mean?
i think the problem is that everyone loves amy, and we are not over her yet
I dunno, I find Moffat's companions to be overly complex and not very human. Amy was probably the closest thing to a traditional companion but her storyline still irked me.
I kinda miss the relatable companions, like Martha and Donna.
Overly complex is very human. Also, I disliked how Martha was writtern, but that wasn't the actress' fault, they wrote her as the "not-Rose" and didn't really have the personality to make it her own.
However, I loved Donna and Amy, and I feel like Clara will grow on me more. I like her. I just don't love like I do the others.
On May 19 2013 17:43 Vlanitak wrote: Guess if I can wait a year for a new GoT season waiting 6 months for a new Dr. Who cant Hurt
Oh, that pun. Also, sorry for excluding John Hurt from the poll, but I suppose it's safe to say he won't be the next Doctor.
As another Doctor Who season draws to a close (depending on how you figure seasonal specials in) and the rumors surrounding Smith and Moffat's continued presence on the show after Christmas I thought some polls could be interesting.
I believe they said they are a-go for season 8, but that it might be both Smith's and Moffat's last.
That's true about complexity being a human trait. I probably should've specified timeline-importance complexity as opposed to personality complexity. River, Amy, and Clara have all been pretty tightly wound in the doctor's timeline in ways that the doctor doesn't understand. Before, the most complex a companion got was Rose sending the bad wolf messages backwards through time or Captain Jack being the face of Boe.
Yeah, I think Matt Smith said on Friday something that intimated he'd be continuing on the next series. Moffat has said he'd like to continue, but BBC insiders have been reported as saying the BBC might be reconsidering him as showrunner after the Christmas special. All speculation.
Gotta say, that last ep was one of the best Matt Smith ep's.. and alot more interesting story line than the River Song saga that's been running for ages! absolutly loved the episode
On May 20 2013 00:16 ToT)OjKa( wrote: I like Matt Smith as the doctor and he has recently gotten much better at it but so many of the episodes are just duff ones due to the writing. Apart from the bad ones, I also don't really feel that 11 is ever going to lose in the episodes unlike some of 10's. Tennent just had some real badass episodes. Every time he was in a spacesuit or a spaceship you know it was gonna be a sweet episode.
I know 9 and 10 had some duff episodes too but they had memorable ones also.
Clara is the hottest
Tennent had some of the more epic episodes, but a LOT more bad ones than Matt Smith (at least till this last season). I'm ready for + Show Spoiler +
The Time War
being fleshed out after this, but am sad Christopher Eccleston didn't come back (which is why JH is there in the first place).
On May 20 2013 00:16 ToT)OjKa( wrote: I like Matt Smith as the doctor and he has recently gotten much better at it but so many of the episodes are just duff ones due to the writing. Apart from the bad ones, I also don't really feel that 11 is ever going to lose in the episodes unlike some of 10's. Tennent just had some real badass episodes. Every time he was in a spacesuit or a spaceship you know it was gonna be a sweet episode.
I know 9 and 10 had some duff episodes too but they had memorable ones also.
Clara is the hottest
Tennent had some of the more epic episodes, but a LOT more bad ones than Matt Smith (at least till this last season). I'm ready for + Show Spoiler +
The Time War
being fleshed out after this, but am sad Christopher Eccleston didn't come back (which is why JH is there in the first place).
I think Hurt is there because at the end of the timewar he regenerates into Eccleston's number 9. Hurt has to have come between McGanna and Eccleston in some way. Whether it be a legitimate regeneration into a number 9 who disavowed the name "doctor" or just a result of some form of timelock or aging before regeneration of Mcgann's doctor into Eccleston's doctor.
Further more I would agree some of the writing this season wasn't the strongest. It doesn't help that we had one season spread across two years in a departure from the other seasons of WHO previous. Also a lack of 2 parters was also disappointing. I think the writing for this season was focused on a lot of one offs and less of a large continuing story line. I mean, the first half was this timey wimey mess of episodes before the Pond's left, and the second half is a bunch of snapshots that didn't feed much into the story of Clara as the impossible girl. I felt like only the Sweetville episode and this last one really took the "impossible girl" on as an important story element and added to the intrigue more strongly than the other episodes ever did. Especially with the "how can that be clara?" in Sweetville episode.
It's apparently confirmed that Matt will be leaving after the Christmas episode. Source. I'll miss him, much like Eccleston (who I wish would rejoin us for the big 50th special) and Tennant (who thankfully we get to see one more time!)
Ah, what a strange feeling. I wonder who will replace him... I doubt Cumberbatch very much even if I do love him. If anything, seeing him in Star Trek has reaffirmed my belief that he should be a Master at some point, drums and timelocks be damned.
Very much so looking forward to November 23rd! So much waiting, with very little to tide me over in the meanwhile.
On August 05 2013 03:30 WiseBagus wrote: He has been in Torchwood and Doctor Who, is this going to come back somehow?
Probably not. Doctor Who tends to reuse actors a lot, since there's a finite supply of British actors and an effectively infinite number of Dr Who character roles. Some British actors played as many as six distinct roles in the old show.
Capaldi won't be the first Doctor to have appeared previously either. Colin Baker played a Gallifreyan guard who used a stungun on Peter Davidson's Doctor a few episodes before taking over the role himself. He jokes that he got the role by shooting the incumbent.
True, but so was Karen Gillen (albeit she was masked)
I am a bit disappointed it isn't a woman, not shattered at it but I think it would have been refreshing.
When they cast a woman you know they've jumped the shark.
I don't really think so. It depends a bit on the timing though. With three young, male actors playing the doctor in a row I get why they opted for an age change rather than changing the sex of the doctor, it is a bit more congruent with the show. I could see the next incarnation making that change though (Regeneration debate notwithstanding of course.)
so glad the rumors they are bringing back that over-rated arsehole David Tennant are false. His overacting was so bad and cringeworthy had to stop watching until mat smith came along
On August 05 2013 05:40 UdderChaos wrote: so glad the rumors they are bringing back that over-rated arsehole David Tennant are false. His overacting was so bad and cringeworthy had to stop watching until mat smith came along
I'm the opposite. I stopped watching during Matt Smith's time with the show. I don't know if it was just the acting or if it was the writing, but I did not like it. Looking forward to the twelth doctor though! :D
True, but so was Karen Gillen (albeit she was masked)
I am a bit disappointed it isn't a woman, not shattered at it but I think it would have been refreshing.
When they cast a woman you know they've jumped the shark.
Yeah I agree. I mean even them explicitly showing the timelords can regenerate different genders is...stupid, frankly. Because then its like, why did the doctor have 12+ regenerations which were all male? What are the chances? Not to mention, changes of a body and temperment...there still quintisentially the same person, but a change in gender is a leap too far. It wouldnt be the same person anymore.
On August 05 2013 05:40 UdderChaos wrote: so glad the rumors they are bringing back that over-rated arsehole David Tennant are false. His overacting was so bad and cringeworthy had to stop watching until mat smith came along
I'm the opposite. I stopped watching during Matt Smith's time with the show. I don't know if it was just the acting or if it was the writing, but I did not like it. Looking forward to the twelth doctor though! :D
Yeah David tennant was amazing, and I found Matt Smith tiresome. Which to be honest I largely blame on Moffat, I really hope he retires from Dr.Who soon. He's good at writing an episode here and there but hes just NOT suited to be the main writer.
edit: "Count me as one of the many people totally over Steven Moffat's rule of Doctor Who. If you still aren't convinced that his story lines have become totally ridiculous, then check out the random Doctor Who plot generator at Us vs Th3m. Here's one I just created:
A flashback sequence introduces us to the Paradise Faction homeworld, but the Sonic Screwdriver picks up a gravity anomaly. The Doctor, Clara, and Clara’s two charges have tough choices to make about the Macra. The Doctor’s tears save the day. Katy from CBeebies features in a flashback sequence. Sounds like a legit Moffat episode to me."
On August 05 2013 05:40 UdderChaos wrote: so glad the rumors they are bringing back that over-rated arsehole David Tennant are false. His overacting was so bad and cringeworthy had to stop watching until mat smith came along
If i'm not mistaken they are bringing him back for the 50th anniversary special, which has been the plan for a while. Also i loved Tennant as the doctor but i much prefer the writing with Matt, and that has resulted in me liking the Matt seasons the most.
Pretty happy about this choice. I wasn't a huge fan of Matt Smith's later episodes either, mostly because of the writing though. I hope a big change like this one will be enough to take the show to a different direction.
On August 05 2013 05:40 UdderChaos wrote: so glad the rumors they are bringing back that over-rated arsehole David Tennant are false. His overacting was so bad and cringeworthy had to stop watching until mat smith came along
I somewhat agree. The overacting was pretty unfortunate and not very doctor-like. They could bring his wife back, though. "The Doctors Daughter" could easily make it back as her arc was barely touched!
As for who should be the doctor: I find the chap to the younger side actually. I will love to see a true classic gray-haired doctor in the style of Jon Pertwee or William Hartnell and how such a character can do in the modern setting. The only other interesting bookmaker candidate was Idris Elba, but that would have been far more controversial!
Tennant was all right. Yeah, he overacted a lot, but at the same time I can't convince myself that RTD wasn't aiming for that, since he's always had a thing for exploding things and imploding/exploding character moments. Also, that episode with Ten stuck with a bunch of passangers on that transport to find the crystal falls or whatever was brilliantly acted, at least to my eyes, and he's had some other great moments (the Human Nature two-parter ep, anyone?). He emotes really well with his face and eyes even in quiet moments.
I think Smith did what he could with the material. Not his fault that he was constricted by the writing. Shame there's no word on Simm coming back though ... then again, after they turned him into a hungry electric deinonychus, I am not sure he can be salvaged in his role as The Master even with good acting.
Ahhhh, Eccleston was the best New Who Doctor.
I also thought that River Song was generally hated by everyone in fandom? Note: I haven't watched past Matt Smith's first season, so I have not been too overexposed to her yet. I liked her at first in the Library two-parter, but then again, at that point, I had also been under the impression that she had more purpose to her life than being the Doctor's wife. Also this was before I had realized that all of Moffat's women are the same, Jesus Christ.
I like Tennant and Smith both just fine. I think Simon of Yogscast fame said it well enough though.
People may be mean about Matt Smith but he made me believe The Doctor was truly an alien. So many of the others were just 'a kooky guy'. Smith's Doctor was fucking WEIRD. He looked weird, acted weird, moved weirdly, his speech patterns were weird. He was a believable alien.
Source is his twitter.
But yeah Eccleston is my favorite. I wish he'd come back for the special.
On August 05 2013 05:40 UdderChaos wrote: so glad the rumors they are bringing back that over-rated arsehole David Tennant are false. His overacting was so bad and cringeworthy had to stop watching until mat smith came along
If i'm not mistaken they are bringing him back for the 50th anniversary special, which has been the plan for a while. Also i loved Tennant as the doctor but i much prefer the writing with Matt, and that has resulted in me liking the Matt seasons the most.
On August 05 2013 06:33 thezanursic wrote: Why does everybody love Riversong at least on that shit-hole called tumblr?
I hate my fuck out of her. I'm so happy they got rid of her.
I'm with you man, i hated her from her very introduction. My doctor who watching partner loved her from the start, we never could convince eachother.
Actually she was ''OK'' in the introduction episode. Mostly because of the fact that everything else except her was awesome, I mean that library episode was genius. Imagine a sexier Riversong without the dumb accent and a little better written.
People may be mean about Matt Smith but he made me believe The Doctor was truly an alien. So many of the others were just 'a kooky guy'. Smith's Doctor was fucking WEIRD. He looked weird, acted weird, moved weirdly, his speech patterns were weird. He was a believable alien.
Source is his twitter.
But yeah Eccleston is my favorite. I wish he'd come back for the special.
I agree with that. Smith did a great job making the Doctor what he is supposed to be.
Tennant is an actor I really like, but in the end, he wasn't much the Doctor. He had some of the best episodes tho. Blink obviously, but the whole part with the Master was really good. ( beside the stupid ending of it )
Tennant is an actor I really like, but in the end, he wasn't much the Doctor. He had some of the best episodes tho. Blink obviously, but the whole part with the Master was really good. ( beside the stupid ending of it )
I dunno, I think tennant is the closest doctor to the old doctors. Smith as mentioned does the whole slightly wierd alien thing incredibly well and I love that part of his work, but tennant is just nostalgically familiar if you remember Baker and McCoy. I think what hits strangely about Tennant's stoylines is that unlike baker's emotional side, which was very paternal or fraternal, Tennant seems far more passionate and entwined with the other characters- love, rather than affection. In some ways that takes away from this idea of the Doctor as the incredibly charismatic but distant guy guiding us around the universe.
I, for one, really liked that over his arc, and I think it was relatively well managed. Ultimately he maintained his identity and his arc managed to convey the emotional cost to him of doing that- in that he was the first doctor who really, really wasn't ok with regenerating but did it anyway because, y'know, he's the doctor.
Part of the joy of the show is that each doctor brings his own wardrobe, as it were. They all wear the same underwear, but in true overdone metaphor style, I'll say that once you get familiar with someone in their undies, you begin to appreciate their fashion choices more than you do before you are familiar .
On August 05 2013 09:30 Dismay wrote: I like Tennant and Smith both just fine. I think Simon of Yogscast fame said it well enough though.
People may be mean about Matt Smith but he made me believe The Doctor was truly an alien. So many of the others were just 'a kooky guy'. Smith's Doctor was fucking WEIRD. He looked weird, acted weird, moved weirdly, his speech patterns were weird. He was a believable alien.
Source is his twitter.
But yeah Eccleston is my favorite. I wish he'd come back for the special.
I agree with that. Smith did a great job making the Doctor what he is supposed to be.
Tennant is an actor I really like, but in the end, he wasn't much the Doctor. He had some of the best episodes tho. Blink obviously, but the whole part with the Master was really good. ( beside the stupid ending of it )
I like Tennant and Smith for different reasons. Tennant clearly liked to focus on the human side of the Doctor and the reason why he always found people to travel with, stayed near Earth and was generally lonely. The titanic episode is a great example of that when Tennant says “I can save her, I can do anything”, followed up by the line later on “But think, Doctor. If you could decide who lived or died, (pause) you would be a monster.” Also, the speed call to the Queen was pretty great.
Smith's Doctor was more focused on the darker aspects of the Doctor, which he covered up with his child like nature. That he was afraid of becoming what the rest of the Time Lords become and that he traveled with people to avoid that. Also, the Ponds was a focus on how normal people are affected by the Doctor being in their lives. I enjoyed that store line a lot, because I loved the concept of them always having a place for the Doctor at the dinner table. There was something sad, yet amazing about that. Also, River song and the phrase "Never let him see you age, he can't deal with it." and the idea that the Doctor acts like a child to avoid the idea that he will always outlive everyone he loves.
Also, Dinosaurs on a Space Ship. I swear they made that episode based on the title alone.
I wish I could tweak things to make Smith the 10th and Tennant the 11th. Smith may have turned out to be better at turning from a shrunken googly-eyed fairy into a glowy floating...thing, and Tennant looks pretty good in a bowtie.
Matt Smith was a great doctor but the direction the show has taken under mofat has not been to my liking at all. Overly complicated and contrived plots, too much foreshadowing and build up to something thats just stupid in the end. Too much plot and not enough adventure.
Im really looking forward to a female doctor and it makes me sad so many of you are against it. Blaming it on "its just not supposed to work that way" is silly, especially after they even made it canon. It is confirmed to be possible within the universe and there is no reason the doctor couldnt be a woman, black, or anything else.
Remember the lady (nurse?) who couldnt believe martha was a doctor because she was a black woman dont be her.
I don't think the problem is having a female doctor. But we had so many young doctors, that having a old one is a welcoming change (male or female). Even if I would have loved to see Idris Elba as 12th, Capaldi is still a pretty strong choice.
On August 07 2013 05:54 Lysteria wrote: I don't think the problem is having a female doctor. But we had so many young doctors, that having a old one is a welcoming change (male or female). Even if I would have loved to see Idris Elba as 12th, Capaldi is still a pretty strong choice.
i love doctor who and i would HATE a female ... even in this world would make so absolute no sense ... cause he even has mother father etc ... no i rly would hate a female and also a black would be rly questionable ... just not fit -_- only because "you must do this or its sexist/racist" ... tahts bs ... a white british midage is the roll and thats fine ...
On August 07 2013 05:28 leveller wrote: Matt Smith was a great doctor but the direction the show has taken under mofat has not been to my liking at all. Overly complicated and contrived plots, too much foreshadowing and build up to something thats just stupid in the end. Too much plot and not enough adventure.
Im really looking forward to a female doctor and it makes me sad so many of you are against it. Blaming it on "its just not supposed to work that way" is silly, especially after they even made it canon. It is confirmed to be possible within the universe and there is no reason the doctor couldnt be a woman, black, or anything else.
Remember the lady (nurse?) who couldnt believe martha was a doctor because she was a black woman dont be her.
jaeh but its only your oppinion, i love the way the show took and i fuckn love the new doctor ^^ why on earth would i want a female doctor would destroy some of the series feeling ... if u want a woman main actor just watch another series
Leveller, you choose such a subtle yet aggressive and offensive way to approach the issue. If someone doesn't want the doctor to be a woman, they must, by your system of estimation, be either a sexist or a person whose thinking is constrained by convention. The problem isn't that people don't care for female lead characters, it's that the doctor has always been a father/older brother figure, and changing his gender is changing 50 years of character building in that regard. Why am I not allowed to not want that change to happen? Must every change in the world always be blindly supported simply because it is change? I understand that we COULD make the doctor a woman, but for what purpose? For what purpose should he be black? In a world where we try to suggest that skin-color is arbitrary when evaluating a human being, why push for a different skin color? Sure, we could use the next 50 years to make the doctor a man/woman/transgender/heterosexual/homosexual/transexual/blonde/brown-haired/red-haired/bald-headed/white-skinned/black-skinned/rainbow-colored character who's held every political position, but to what end? Do women need to have a female doctor in order to feel that their gender has been validated? Give me a reason for a female doctor better than "because it hasn't been done" and I might give it some more thought. I have no problem with a female being a lead character, breaking gender stereotypes, or keeping gender stereotypes, etc. etc. etc. Do you want to introduce a new female time lord who's a main character in a spin-off show? Great. Wonderful. Do that. Heck, even if you want to make the Doctor a female, I have no problem with you having that opinion and promoting it, but asserting that people who don't want a female Doctor are just like the lady who couldn't believe that Martha was a doctor is an offensive and narrow-minded way of perceiving and aggressively labeling people who oppose your view. Remarks like that draw fire, and being a fan of the Doctor, you ought to expose yourself more to some of his messages and have a more charitable view of your fellow human beings. Perhaps one that is less premature, less ignorant, less aggressive, less belittling, and more considerate. The position of "You disagree with me and are therefore sadly constrained by convention and incapable of seeing a larger picture" is becoming a tired one, too often thrown out before a fair estimation of the other has been established. It saddens me that you express such a poorly fleshed out series of thoughts after making a statement that I 100% agree with (your entire first paragraph).
It's so hard for me to assimilate how the Moffat seasons have some of the best episodes of television as a whole, and yet have such disappointing story arcs and season finales sometimes. I don't know if I should look at the episodes of sheer brillance, and declare it the better DW period, or look at what's wrong or missing, and declare it worse.
I'm not happy to see Matt Smith leave. He is my favorite doctor by far. I'm sure I will like the new guy too though, Doctor Who hardly ever disappoints me.
I do not like the idea of a female doctor, since it does not fit with what we know about the doctor/time lords. But there are lots of continuity issues with regards to regeneration anyway, so I'm not totally closed to the idea. A black doctor is totally fine with me, if the right actor can be found, why not?
The doctor is an eccentric genius, he is an alien around one thousand years old who can bend space and time to his will and likely has more intellect knowledge and experience than the entire human race. He travels with companions to keep him grounded, give him perspective and to remind him of what he should be fighting for.
This only scratches the surface of the potential depths of the character, to reduce the casting of it to gender or race politics does not do the character justice. There is an entire potential Multiverse of possibilities out there that we have not even begun to comprehend.
Dr Who is somewhat unique in that it can persist through multiple different actors playing the role where many other roles are tied to a specific actor. It is fun to speculate and there are quite a few actors who could make a great Doctor and there is 'all' of time for others to play the character. I have to say I really like the current choice and it is interesting to hear that they had Peter Capaldi in mind even before casting Matt smith. He could well have been chosen before Matt Smith announced he was leaving.
I just finished watching S6 and S7 and i only really finished watching because i like the franchise. The overarching story was just weird and didn't really appear to have any sense of direction or consistency with plot holes on every corner. The character of the 11th doctor was... mediocre, which was most likely not the fault of Matt Smith himself but rather poor storywriting. I liked the character of Amy Pond and even Rory was a decent and believable character, but the doctor was too... weird, even for a Doctor.
I liked the modern series with David Tennant and Christopher Eccleston but after that, they seem to have completely messed up everything.
As for the "female doctor" discussion, i don't think a female doctor would fit because timelords still have different genders and appear to be keeping them, so why would the doctor suddenly genderchange? I don't think it fits the Doctor Who universe to have a female doctor. However, if they explain it well, i wouldn't oppose it, i'm just against a "oh, i'm dead, now i'm female, let's go on as if nothing happened" change.
On August 20 2013 16:07 Morfildur wrote: I just finished watching S6 and S7 and i only really finished watching because i like the franchise. The overarching story was just weird and didn't really appear to have any sense of direction or consistency with plot holes on every corner. The character of the 11th doctor was... mediocre, which was most likely not the fault of Matt Smith himself but rather poor storywriting. I liked the character of Amy Pond and even Rory was a decent and believable character, but the doctor was too... weird, even for a Doctor.
I liked the modern series with David Tennant and Christopher Eccleston but after that, they seem to have completely messed up everything.
As for the "female doctor" discussion, i don't think a female doctor would fit because timelords still have different genders and appear to be keeping them, so why would the doctor suddenly genderchange? I don't think it fits the Doctor Who universe to have a female doctor. However, if they explain it well, i wouldn't oppose it, i'm just against a "oh, i'm dead, now i'm female, let's go on as if nothing happened" change.
Well, they did throw the concept out there in season 6 episode 4 in the doctors ramblings, where he mentions The Corsair? who was "a bloke", "a couple of times a she" and "a bad girl".
While season 6 was pretty weak, I think season 7 was better. The concept fell far short unfortunately, sure. However, most of the individual episodes were a step up. Hopefully they can create a better overall story for next season and make it far more subtle so it doesn't ruin otherwise good episodes, with 5-10 minutes of buildup to something that can never live up to the hype.
So I just finished the first Matt Smith season, and started watching The Impossible Astronaut. So it seemed to imply that he sent letters to the people that he knew and trusted the most - Rory, Amy, River, and the old guy. The same thing started to bug me now as it did last season.
Are they just going to pretend all the characters from Tennant's run never existed? They referenced Captain Jack at one point (where River got the Time Vortex thingy), but at no point has he ever mentioned any of his former companions. I know he trusts the Ponds, but not even a mention of Martha, Mickey, Jack, or Sarah? I mean, I figure they probably don't have contracts for them so they can't have them back at all, but it's like with the regeneration he completely forgot about everything that happened.
I know I might be baiting spoilers or something, but still. Irks me a bit.
On October 14 2013 04:41 Requizen wrote: So I just finished the first Matt Smith season, and started watching The Impossible Astronaut. So it seemed to imply that he sent letters to the people that he knew and trusted the most - Rory, Amy, River, and the old guy. The same thing started to bug me now as it did last season.
Are they just going to pretend all the characters from Tennant's run never existed? They referenced Captain Jack at one point (where River got the Time Vortex thingy), but at no point has he ever mentioned any of his former companions. I know he trusts the Ponds, but not even a mention of Martha, Mickey, Jack, or Sarah? I mean, I figure they probably don't have contracts for them so they can't have them back at all, but it's like with the regeneration he completely forgot about everything that happened.
I know I might be baiting spoilers or something, but still. Irks me a bit.
1. As for the 11th doctor sending letters to older companions wouldn't make that much sense, they never knew the 11th doctor. Plus he would probably break a lot of time laws etc. doing so as most characters story had ended (rose parallel, donna may not remember).
2. Those 4 are relevant for the events that happened and are related to that story line.
3. I would be a bit tiresome to mention all the characters all the time, (By the way Amy meet these 20 ppl from my past who have all been my best friends, companions whatevers, oh most of them didn't get a very happy end, and you will be replaced one day too!)
4. The doctor doesn't really like to talk about 'endings'.
5. You may notice later on, but it's (secretly) a new show between 10 and 11, whole new cast, new showrunner, writers, specials effects and more.
6. Keep watching series 6, more will be explained about the invitations and any mysteries from that episode.
7. There will be references. details would be too spoilery I guess.
On October 14 2013 04:41 Requizen wrote: So I just finished the first Matt Smith season, and started watching The Impossible Astronaut. So it seemed to imply that he sent letters to the people that he knew and trusted the most - Rory, Amy, River, and the old guy. The same thing started to bug me now as it did last season.
Are they just going to pretend all the characters from Tennant's run never existed? They referenced Captain Jack at one point (where River got the Time Vortex thingy), but at no point has he ever mentioned any of his former companions. I know he trusts the Ponds, but not even a mention of Martha, Mickey, Jack, or Sarah? I mean, I figure they probably don't have contracts for them so they can't have them back at all, but it's like with the regeneration he completely forgot about everything that happened.
I know I might be baiting spoilers or something, but still. Irks me a bit.
To be fair I am pretty sure he forgot Mickey during Ten's run.
The long and short of it is that they have to pay them to come on, and unless they come up with a good plot that would make a lot of sense to involve them in they won't be back.
There are little throwbacks to them here and there (even in season 5 there's a deleted scene where Amy basically accuses the Doctor of picking up female companions for something more than simple companionship) but the jist of it is new director, new Doctor, new companions. Out with the old and in with the new.
I mean, I guess that's fair. And don't get me wrong, I'm very much enjoying the new seasons and stuff, it just seemed to be kind of a jolt. During Ten, everything was connected, and then yeah I guess their stories got resolved, but it just really does feel like a completely new show.
On October 15 2013 02:24 erkicman wrote: Man, seeing this at the top of the general forum made me think new episodes were out on Netflix...
Well "The Enemy of the World" and some Episodes of "The Web of Fear" are available there for the first time ^_^ So I guess your assumption was not really wrong
I am a little bit confused that nobody mentioned the rediscovered episodes so far.
Can not wait for the 50th anniversary. I really have high hopes for Capaldi and for the show in general. The 7th season was a little lackluster in my opinion compared with 5 and 6 which I thought were better. On the style side I would like to see a little slow down and more science fiction and less of what I would call Moffat's "fairy tale" style of storytelling (I just had enough of it for the moment) and less screwdriver. A calm, deliberate Doctor a little bit reminiscent of the first and the third doctor would be lovely.
300 locations in US. Two days after, but in theaters and 3D/IMAX. For some people it being in 3D could discourage people, including myself, but just in case people are interested.
300 locations in US. Two days after, but in theaters and 3D/IMAX. For some people it being in 3D could discourage people, including myself, but just in case people are interested.
30 German cinemas participate. I guess other countries will as well. (link in German)
300 locations in US. Two days after, but in theaters and 3D/IMAX. For some people it being in 3D could discourage people, including myself, but just in case people are interested.
Hm...I have a theater about 15 minutes away that is showing it. How much do we know about the 3D? I'm generally not a fan of 3D since it's historically bad...but if it's good 3D I'd see it.
No, he technically isn't the Doctor, or doesn't use that name. He is the same entity, but not one of the doctor 'title/name' wearing ones. 13 max regenerations is just some random line from somewhere which can easily be adjusted with whatever they want to use for it.
No, he technically isn't the Doctor, or doesn't use that name. He is the same entity, but not one of the doctor 'title/name' wearing ones. 13 max regenerations is just some random line from somewhere which can easily be adjusted with whatever they want to use for it.
No, he technically isn't the Doctor, or doesn't use that name. He is the same entity, but not one of the doctor 'title/name' wearing ones. 13 max regenerations is just some random line from somewhere which can easily be adjusted with whatever they want to use for it.
I am just happy to see David tennant take the mantle up again. I loved his Doctor. Though they should have got some of the other older doctors while they are still alive...
Didn't like it. The destruction of Gallifrey was so fundamental to his history and his great mission of atonement. It is the moment that makes him the man he is, you can't fuck with that event.
I really didn't like they brought back Gallifrey. I very much hate it in fact. The way they did it was really good. But they should have pressed the button. Maybe i will get over it.
Really didn't like the episode and it didn't follow on from the last episode they were in the doctor's timeline clara all confused with John Hurt then suddenly somewhere completely different weird.
Loved the Episode Clara is my favorite companion and John hurt was spectacular. I would like to see a John Hurt season but it's not possible. Also a nod to the 12th doctor was pretty cool.
On November 24 2013 06:46 KwarK wrote: Didn't like it. The destruction of Gallifrey was so fundamental to his history and his great mission of atonement. It is the moment that makes him the man he is, you can't fuck with that event.
Well... doesn't getting over his depression and saving Gallifrey in the end atone him?
I didn't dislike the episode. It wasn't as epic as I thought a 50th celebration should be, but it advanced the Destruction of Gallifrey story and showed the Doctor's true character, that is, even as the Warrior Doctor, he's still himself. All three of the Doctors had good chemistry as well, which really helped the episode.
It looks like the Christmas episode will be great, though.
They did have some great chemistry and the episode itself was great, but I didn't like the saving of Gallifrey either. Obviously they wanted to do something big for the 50th but I just don't think changing the moment that shaped him so much was the right thing to do.
On November 24 2013 06:46 KwarK wrote: Didn't like it. The destruction of Gallifrey was so fundamental to his history and his great mission of atonement. It is the moment that makes him the man he is, you can't fuck with that event.
I can't tell if you believe that Gallifrey was always destroyed. There are a lot of people out there who are outraged that Moffatt would dare rewrite all Doctor Who history by bringing back Gallifrey, not realising that it was only destroyed in the revived series.
I thought that this was an absolutely incredible episode. Wholly and totally worthy of being a 50th. The Doctor has always been about healing others and making people better, in the new series especially because of his Hurt life, and in this episode they turned it around so that he tries to heal himself. There were so many cool fan nods and Smith and Tennant worked together brilliantly. This is definitely an episode I'll be watching a few more times in the coming days.
On November 24 2013 06:46 KwarK wrote: Didn't like it. The destruction of Gallifrey was so fundamental to his history and his great mission of atonement. It is the moment that makes him the man he is, you can't fuck with that event.
I can't tell if you believe that Gallifrey was always destroyed. There are a lot of people out there who are outraged that Moffatt would dare rewrite all Doctor Who history by bringing back Gallifrey, not realising that it was only destroyed in the revived series.
Don't really care how it was in the original series vs the revived series, it's just in the revived series Gallifrey was meant to be the one thing the Doctor couldn't save which triggers his insane obsession with saving everything to try and somehow atone and change what he did even though he never can. Having him actually change what he did undermines the very essence of the Doctor.
On November 24 2013 06:46 KwarK wrote: Didn't like it. The destruction of Gallifrey was so fundamental to his history and his great mission of atonement. It is the moment that makes him the man he is, you can't fuck with that event.
I can't tell if you believe that Gallifrey was always destroyed. There are a lot of people out there who are outraged that Moffatt would dare rewrite all Doctor Who history by bringing back Gallifrey, not realising that it was only destroyed in the revived series.
Don't really care how it was in the original series vs the revived series, it's just in the revived series Gallifrey was meant to be the one thing the Doctor couldn't save which triggers his insane obsession with saving everything to try and somehow atone and change what he did even though he never can. Having him actually change what he did undermines the very essence of the Doctor.
But it doesn't actually change anything. He doesn't remember that he saved it until he is where the 11th is right now and so it still defines his character. It's not as if he's going to say "I actually did save Gallifrey so I guess I won't save everyone anymore." I don't think it undermines the essence of the Doctor at all, but rather reinforces it.
Also now that Gallifrey can come back so too can awesome villains like the Rani. Maybe we'll even get to see Romana or Susan again.
On November 24 2013 06:46 KwarK wrote: Didn't like it. The destruction of Gallifrey was so fundamental to his history and his great mission of atonement. It is the moment that makes him the man he is, you can't fuck with that event.
I can't tell if you believe that Gallifrey was always destroyed. There are a lot of people out there who are outraged that Moffatt would dare rewrite all Doctor Who history by bringing back Gallifrey, not realising that it was only destroyed in the revived series.
Don't really care how it was in the original series vs the revived series, it's just in the revived series Gallifrey was meant to be the one thing the Doctor couldn't save which triggers his insane obsession with saving everything to try and somehow atone and change what he did even though he never can. Having him actually change what he did undermines the very essence of the Doctor.
But it doesn't actually change anything. He doesn't remember that he saved it until he is where the 11th is right now and so it still defines his character. It's not as if he's going to say "I actually did save Gallifrey so I guess I won't save everyone anymore." I don't think it undermines the essence of the Doctor at all, but rather reinforces it.
Also now that Gallifrey can come back so too can awesome villains like the Rani. Maybe we'll even get to see Romana or Susan again.
Yeah, it's a goddamned retcon though. It wipes out the actual meaning behind the character as he's now just a guy with a faulty memory instead of a deep, layered character. I mean it opens up a bunch of new possible story points and lets us see Gallifrey a lot more, but it seems like changing something so central to the character/storyline is annoying.
How can you say redemption for the destruction of Gallifrey is integral to the doctors character when he spent 40 odd years before that particular piece was written.
In the last episode of season 7 we learn that John Hurt's incarnation of the doctor is "his secret". I was under the impression that the secret was more than just burning his own people along with the daleks, since we already knew he did this since season 1.
The time war really just seemed like a conventional war, "the end of time" special made it sound alot cooler than it was showsn, and a long standing fact was that the time lords went insane towards the end. They seemed to be alright.
Though I really like the rest of the episode, I really dislike what the special added to the cannon. Gallifrey is now ready to return, and we learn nothing else at all about the time war, or the doctor's role in it.
The more I think about what was actually shown, the more disappointed I become. Just feels like a giant cop-out.
On November 24 2013 19:15 TheLink wrote: How can you say redemption for the destruction of Gallifrey is integral to the doctors character when he spent 40 odd years before that particular piece was written.
That's true, it was a 50th anniversary, not a 8th anniversary.
I felt there were some giant plotholes, I could have missed/misinterpreted some stuff so I'd love to be wrong here. But my final conclusion is as follows:
- Rose, what the fuck was up with that? The OS of The Moment decided to take her form is all. What does that have to do with Bad Wolf? Why is Bad Wolf even mentioned? I felt that it meant nothing. All I saw was the same actress playing a different character.
- The whole saving Gallifrey from destruction seems to bother me the most. Matt's Doc seemed to remember the events, acting annoyed when the time portal showed up and even saying "Oooh, this is where I come in" implying very strongly that he remembers the events from when he was Tennant's Doc. This of course means that the events Matt recalls also include all 3 doctors. I dislike this pretty hard because, well, the whole reasoning behind them saving Gallifrey was "there's 3 of us now!". Something should have changed between Matt experiencing these events as Tennant (And blowing up Gallifrey in the end) and Matt experiencing these events as Matt. However no "special events" occured that could've influenced their decision to not do it this time. All I could think of was the Zygons, however that seems like a rather weak motivator to try and save their home planet instead of blowing it up this time. I also feel like this trivializes the Doctors blowing up Gallifrey, since it was always considered inevitable that they did.
- Lack of surprises. Of course Gallifrey being saved was a surprise, because as I explained above I completely expected them to blow it up. It was leaked that 2 people would show up in the special: Baker and Donna. Well, there was no Donna, and I expected that they managed to atleast film some scenes in secrecy. (With special guest star(s))
I also agree with Crushinator's post regarding Time War related stuff being shown. However I do feel that the big secret was him ending the Time War.
There were some positive things though, I'm a huge fan of Tennant's Doc so watching him go around with his device that goes DING! And it was great to have his previously unexplained history with Elizabeth the First revealed. I thought the build up was done pretty well, the banter between the 3 Docs was pretty entertaining as well. Also Tom Baker showing up as The Curator in the end I found pretty cool.
So from the first christmas special trailer, it appears we might be getting a bit of resolution about the question, the silence and Trenzalore. Really hope it is good, I feel like we are owed that at this point. I'm gonna miss Matt Smith a whole lot, I hope they give him a worthy ending.
Oh one thing I couldn't really make sense of is the old Tom Baker doctor in the end. Surely he isn't the 4th, since we saw that one regenerate. So he is a future (retired) doctor?
So from the first christmas special trailer, it appears we might be getting a bit of resolution about the question, the silence and Trenzalore. Really hope it is good, I feel like we are owed that at this point. I'm gonna miss Matt Smith a whole lot, I hope they give him a worthy ending.
Oh one thing I couldn't really make sense of is the old Tom Baker doctor in the end. Surely he isn't the 4th, since we saw that one regenerate. So he is a future (retired) doctor?
For me I just didn't take it too seriously as part of the story, like him at the end with all other 11. More like fan service and sort of breaking the fourth wall. I felt like when Tom Baker said, "Congratulations," it was more to Matt Smith than the Doctor. Again, that's just how I saw it.
On November 24 2013 21:36 Linkirvana wrote: I felt there were some giant plotholes, I could have missed/misinterpreted some stuff so I'd love to be wrong here. But my final conclusion is as follows:
- Rose, what the fuck was up with that? The OS of The Moment decided to take her form is all. What does that have to do with Bad Wolf? Why is Bad Wolf even mentioned? I felt that it meant nothing. All I saw was the same actress playing a different character.
- The whole saving Gallifrey from destruction seems to bother me the most. Matt's Doc seemed to remember the events, acting annoyed when the time portal showed up and even saying "Oooh, this is where I come in" implying very strongly that he remembers the events from when he was Tennant's Doc. This of course means that the events Matt recalls also include all 3 doctors. I dislike this pretty hard because, well, the whole reasoning behind them saving Gallifrey was "there's 3 of us now!". Something should have changed between Matt experiencing these events as Tennant (And blowing up Gallifrey in the end) and Matt experiencing these events as Matt. However no "special events" occured that could've influenced their decision to not do it this time. All I could think of was the Zygons, however that seems like a rather weak motivator to try and save their home planet instead of blowing it up this time. I also feel like this trivializes the Doctors blowing up Gallifrey, since it was always considered inevitable that they did.
- Lack of surprises. Of course Gallifrey being saved was a surprise, because as I explained above I completely expected them to blow it up. It was leaked that 2 people would show up in the special: Baker and Donna. Well, there was no Donna, and I expected that they managed to atleast film some scenes in secrecy. (With special guest star(s))
I also agree with Crushinator's post regarding Time War related stuff being shown. However I do feel that the big secret was him ending the Time War.
There were some positive things though, I'm a huge fan of Tennant's Doc so watching him go around with his device that goes DING! And it was great to have his previously unexplained history with Elizabeth the First revealed. I thought the build up was done pretty well, the banter between the 3 Docs was pretty entertaining as well. Also Tom Baker showing up as The Curator in the end I found pretty cool.
Bad Wolf's existence is probably the whole reason they were able to write this episode. Bad Wolf is probably the most powerful entity in the Doctor Who universe, having the ability to influence just about... everything in the space-time continuum. Rose met The Doctor when he was still fresh from the Time War and saw how much it troubled him, which probably lead to Bad Wolf helping The Doctor by showing him an alternate future. Billie Piper appearing doesn't seem contrived at all, in my opinion.
As for the rest, typical Moffucking time-wimey stuff that will probably be answered in upcoming stories. We'll see.
So from the first christmas special trailer, it appears we might be getting a bit of resolution about the question, the silence and Trenzalore. Really hope it is good, I feel like we are owed that at this point. I'm gonna miss Matt Smith a whole lot, I hope they give him a worthy ending.
Oh one thing I couldn't really make sense of is the old Tom Baker doctor in the end. Surely he isn't the 4th, since we saw that one regenerate. So he is a future (retired) doctor?
Tom Baker's character said The Doctor will revisit old faces. I think he's implying that after the 13th regeneration, he'll retire and go through his old regenerations. Sounds like an excuse to do specials with old Doctors.
The story of Doctor Who (I've only watched the revived series) is that a man, insane with grief for the loss of his people and guilt for his part in it and crippled by loneliness wanders around trying to find a way to exist. He carries with him an enormous burden, both the weight of his actions and the legacy of his people, in different circumstances he'd probably commit suicide but he can't bring himself to make his own species extinct. He has more accumulated knowledge than any other man and the ability to go anywhere and anywhen but he cannot change what he did and must learn to live with it as best he can. Through his interactions with his companions and the human race as a whole he learns to take each day again, to share vicarious joy in their new experiences and wonder, to find new things to value and to protect them and to try to honour the insurmountable debt he carries with him. The persona of the Doctor is his way of trying to live with himself after what he had to do during the time war, his actions, his eccentricity and his obsession with saving everyone and not taking life reflects his pathological crippling guilt.
He learns to experience joy through sharing the universe with his companions, the companions help him deal with his loneliness, he redefines himself and finds new meaning in protecting humanity and helping people and in doing so learns to shed his old identity and the self loathing that goes with it, he learns to forgive himself through saving people at any cost.
The Doctor without the genocide of Gallifrey is no Doctor I have any interest in.
On November 24 2013 19:15 TheLink wrote: How can you say redemption for the destruction of Gallifrey is integral to the doctors character when he spent 40 odd years before that particular piece was written.
If you're talking to me I didn't say that Galifrey's redemption was integral. I said redemption is integral to the Doctor, as he goes around healing and helping others, ESPECIALLY after Galifrey was destroyed. I thought it was fitting that in this episode he helped and healed himself...or at least tried to.
I don't think the Doctor is going to completely revert to what he was before just because Gallifrey is no longer gone. The memory of the guilt and weight upon him is still going to keep him in shape imo.
The issue is every single bit of growth and rehabilitation the Doctor has previously experienced, which is the entire point of the story, is basically now pointless because now Gallifrey wasn't destroyed and he'll eventually find that out anyway and once he does he doesn't need to have the burden of being the last of his kind and all the guilt and can just get on with his life. Had he not saved anyone and just a few thousand years crying and self harming he'd still be fine once he learned Gallifrey was still about. Doctor Who is about what the Doctor did after the genocide, how he coped, how he recovered emotionally, how he found new purpose and learned to experience joy again, as well as how it drove him pretty crazy. None of that has any meaning if it was just killing time before him learning that it was all a dream.
On November 25 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote: The issue is every single bit of growth and rehabilitation the Doctor has previously experienced, which is the entire point of the story, is basically now pointless because now Gallifrey wasn't destroyed and he'll eventually find that out anyway and once he does he doesn't need to have the burden of being the last of his kind and all the guilt and can just get on with his life. Had he not saved anyone and just a few thousand years crying and self harming he'd still be fine once he learned Gallifrey was still about. Doctor Who is about what the Doctor did after the genocide, how he coped, how he recovered emotionally, how he found new purpose and learned to experience joy again, as well as how it drove him pretty crazy. None of that has any meaning if it was just killing time before him learning that it was all a dream.
Why would it just be a dream? In timeline 'A' he commits genocide, and in timeline 'B' (which we were just brought into) he doesn't, yet still thinks that he has. That doesn't destroy the narrative for me, or my sense of enjoyment.
On November 25 2013 05:47 KwarK wrote: The story of Doctor Who (I've only watched the revived series) is that a man, insane with grief for the loss of his people and guilt for his part in it and crippled by loneliness wanders around trying to find a way to exist. He carries with him an enormous burden, both the weight of his actions and the legacy of his people, in different circumstances he'd probably commit suicide but he can't bring himself to make his own species extinct. He has more accumulated knowledge than any other man and the ability to go anywhere and anywhen but he cannot change what he did and must learn to live with it as best he can. Through his interactions with his companions and the human race as a whole he learns to take each day again, to share vicarious joy in their new experiences and wonder, to find new things to value and to protect them and to try to honour the insurmountable debt he carries with him. The persona of the Doctor is his way of trying to live with himself after what he had to do during the time war, his actions, his eccentricity and his obsession with saving everyone and not taking life reflects his pathological crippling guilt.
He learns to experience joy through sharing the universe with his companions, the companions help him deal with his loneliness, he redefines himself and finds new meaning in protecting humanity and helping people and in doing so learns to shed his old identity and the self loathing that goes with it, he learns to forgive himself through saving people at any cost.
The Doctor without the genocide of Gallifrey is no Doctor I have any interest in.
Well that's a good assessment, but remember: the Doctor is different in each of his faces and each face is influenced by what's on his soul.
Nine was a man trying to hide from what he was. He was often in the background of whatever conflict was going on, he never was in the forefront like Ten or Eleven. He was usually the observer, helping in minimal ways because the last time he intervened in a big way, he committed double genocide.
When he regenerated into Ten, he was partially happy because he had found peace with Rose, and he had started to enjoy his travels again. Gallifrey was in the back of his mind, so he regenerated into a man who hid his regret behind a playful exterior. The Moment describes him as "the man who regrets", and this is who he is all through his iteration. His catchphrase is "I'm so, so sorry" (well, one of them anyway), and when Eleven flashes back through all of Ten's companions in "Let's Kill Hitler", he associates all of them with grief.
Eleven was described as "the man who forgets". He barely talks about ANYTHING that happened in previous seasons, even Gallifrey is barely brought up through his tenure, while Ten was quick to talk about it. He (almost) never discusses any of the big things that happened, or his companions, or anything.
While yes, the Doctor will no longer have the Fall of Gallifrey on his mind, the next Doctor doesn't have to be molded by that. This regeneration can be something new, he won't just be Smith or Tenant in a new skin, he'll be someone different, with different things on his mind and priorities. And I find that interesting.
On November 25 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote: The issue is every single bit of growth and rehabilitation the Doctor has previously experienced, which is the entire point of the story, is basically now pointless because now Gallifrey wasn't destroyed and he'll eventually find that out anyway and once he does he doesn't need to have the burden of being the last of his kind and all the guilt and can just get on with his life. Had he not saved anyone and just a few thousand years crying and self harming he'd still be fine once he learned Gallifrey was still about. Doctor Who is about what the Doctor did after the genocide, how he coped, how he recovered emotionally, how he found new purpose and learned to experience joy again, as well as how it drove him pretty crazy. None of that has any meaning if it was just killing time before him learning that it was all a dream.
Why would it just be a dream? In timeline 'A' he commits genocide, and in timeline 'B' (which we were just brought into) he doesn't, yet still thinks that he has. That doesn't destroy the narrative for me, or my sense of enjoyment.
Not sure that's how time travel works. The Doctor always saved Gallifrey and just believed he did not because :timey wimey: (a future Doctor goes back and helps him save Gallifrey and he doesn't remember what he hasn't done yet) and then finds out now and the destruction of Gallifrey was all just a dream.
On November 25 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote: The issue is every single bit of growth and rehabilitation the Doctor has previously experienced, which is the entire point of the story, is basically now pointless because now Gallifrey wasn't destroyed and he'll eventually find that out anyway and once he does he doesn't need to have the burden of being the last of his kind and all the guilt and can just get on with his life. Had he not saved anyone and just a few thousand years crying and self harming he'd still be fine once he learned Gallifrey was still about. Doctor Who is about what the Doctor did after the genocide, how he coped, how he recovered emotionally, how he found new purpose and learned to experience joy again, as well as how it drove him pretty crazy. None of that has any meaning if it was just killing time before him learning that it was all a dream.
Why would it just be a dream? In timeline 'A' he commits genocide, and in timeline 'B' (which we were just brought into) he doesn't, yet still thinks that he has. That doesn't destroy the narrative for me, or my sense of enjoyment.
Not sure that's how time travel works. The Doctor always saved Gallifrey and just believed he did not because :timey wimey: (a future Doctor goes back and helps him save Gallifrey and he doesn't remember what he hasn't done yet) and then finds out now and the destruction of Gallifrey was all just a dream.
Well, it is all 'timey-wimey', but I'm not quick to eliminate the possibility that the Doctor changed his past in a meaningful way, saving Gallifrey (and destroying the Daleks) in a way that he didn't originally.
On November 25 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote: The issue is every single bit of growth and rehabilitation the Doctor has previously experienced, which is the entire point of the story, is basically now pointless because now Gallifrey wasn't destroyed and he'll eventually find that out anyway and once he does he doesn't need to have the burden of being the last of his kind and all the guilt and can just get on with his life. Had he not saved anyone and just a few thousand years crying and self harming he'd still be fine once he learned Gallifrey was still about. Doctor Who is about what the Doctor did after the genocide, how he coped, how he recovered emotionally, how he found new purpose and learned to experience joy again, as well as how it drove him pretty crazy. None of that has any meaning if it was just killing time before him learning that it was all a dream.
Why would it just be a dream? In timeline 'A' he commits genocide, and in timeline 'B' (which we were just brought into) he doesn't, yet still thinks that he has. That doesn't destroy the narrative for me, or my sense of enjoyment.
Because someone's core belief in life is operating under something that he "forgot didn't really happen" is fucking stupid. It turns him into a forgetful moron rather than an interesting character.
Oh, and did everyone magically forget The End of Time? Remember how long he goes on about how fucked up the war made the Time Lords? Now they're coming back. That means Lord President and all.
On November 25 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote: The issue is every single bit of growth and rehabilitation the Doctor has previously experienced, which is the entire point of the story, is basically now pointless because now Gallifrey wasn't destroyed and he'll eventually find that out anyway and once he does he doesn't need to have the burden of being the last of his kind and all the guilt and can just get on with his life. Had he not saved anyone and just a few thousand years crying and self harming he'd still be fine once he learned Gallifrey was still about. Doctor Who is about what the Doctor did after the genocide, how he coped, how he recovered emotionally, how he found new purpose and learned to experience joy again, as well as how it drove him pretty crazy. None of that has any meaning if it was just killing time before him learning that it was all a dream.
Why would it just be a dream? In timeline 'A' he commits genocide, and in timeline 'B' (which we were just brought into) he doesn't, yet still thinks that he has. That doesn't destroy the narrative for me, or my sense of enjoyment.
Because someone's core belief in life is operating under something that he "forgot didn't really happen" is fucking stupid. It turns him into a forgetful moron rather than an interesting character.
Oh, and did everyone magically forget The End of Time? Remember how long he goes on about how fucked up the war made the Time Lords? Now they're coming back. That means Lord President and all.
Forgetting =/= not remembering.
There are problems for sure (why would he remember pressing a button he didn't press?) but again, none which destroy the narrative for me. I have no problem suspending my disbelief when it comes to the Doctor preventing himself from pressing a red button, providing an alternative means of ending the Time War, then having the timey-wimey stream resolve itself and in the process wipe those memories from him.
On November 25 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote: The issue is every single bit of growth and rehabilitation the Doctor has previously experienced, which is the entire point of the story, is basically now pointless because now Gallifrey wasn't destroyed and he'll eventually find that out anyway and once he does he doesn't need to have the burden of being the last of his kind and all the guilt and can just get on with his life. Had he not saved anyone and just a few thousand years crying and self harming he'd still be fine once he learned Gallifrey was still about. Doctor Who is about what the Doctor did after the genocide, how he coped, how he recovered emotionally, how he found new purpose and learned to experience joy again, as well as how it drove him pretty crazy. None of that has any meaning if it was just killing time before him learning that it was all a dream.
Why would it just be a dream? In timeline 'A' he commits genocide, and in timeline 'B' (which we were just brought into) he doesn't, yet still thinks that he has. That doesn't destroy the narrative for me, or my sense of enjoyment.
Because someone's core belief in life is operating under something that he "forgot didn't really happen" is fucking stupid. It turns him into a forgetful moron rather than an interesting character.
Oh, and did everyone magically forget The End of Time? Remember how long he goes on about how fucked up the war made the Time Lords? Now they're coming back. That means Lord President and all.
Forgetting =/= not remembering.
There are problems for sure (why would he remember pressing a button he didn't press?) but again, none which destroy the narrative for me. I have no problem suspending my disbelief when it comes to the Doctor preventing himself from pressing a red button, providing an alternative means of ending the Time War, then having the timey-wimey stream resolve itself and in the process wipe those memories from him.
I can't take the series that seriously.
Sure, but was it really necessary? Is the payoff of 1 good episode worth forcing you to suspend your disbelief at everything that came before?
How does this enrich his character? Why do this at all? Costs don't outweigh the benefits.
On November 25 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote: The issue is every single bit of growth and rehabilitation the Doctor has previously experienced, which is the entire point of the story, is basically now pointless because now Gallifrey wasn't destroyed and he'll eventually find that out anyway and once he does he doesn't need to have the burden of being the last of his kind and all the guilt and can just get on with his life. Had he not saved anyone and just a few thousand years crying and self harming he'd still be fine once he learned Gallifrey was still about. Doctor Who is about what the Doctor did after the genocide, how he coped, how he recovered emotionally, how he found new purpose and learned to experience joy again, as well as how it drove him pretty crazy. None of that has any meaning if it was just killing time before him learning that it was all a dream.
Why would it just be a dream? In timeline 'A' he commits genocide, and in timeline 'B' (which we were just brought into) he doesn't, yet still thinks that he has. That doesn't destroy the narrative for me, or my sense of enjoyment.
Because someone's core belief in life is operating under something that he "forgot didn't really happen" is fucking stupid. It turns him into a forgetful moron rather than an interesting character.
Oh, and did everyone magically forget The End of Time? Remember how long he goes on about how fucked up the war made the Time Lords? Now they're coming back. That means Lord President and all.
I was hoping that the Doctor's secret was that he destroyed Gallifrey even though he didn't strictly need to, because he feared what the Time Lords had become or something like that. Now it turns out there never were never any difficult choices to be made at all.
I don't really get why he had to become a ''warrior" instead of a doctor either, what was even the point of that? This version of the doctor doesn't even seem more morally grey than the others, we've never seen any of it anyway. 10 and 11 were perfectly happy to press that button without being "warriors", untill 11 realised that they could save everyone.
The way this realization came about was pretty silly too. Right about to blow it all up, then there is a tiny little speech by Clara that guilts 11, and then he suddenly remembers he has been thinking about it for 400 years and actually had the answers all along. I really need to stop thinking about everything that was wrong with the special.
I think I can understand people being upset with the saving of gallifrey, but I think it was necessary. I remember the old doc, and the new who always has seemed someone angsty. But what the destruction of gallifrey really served for is as a placeholder for all the history of Doctor Who, so new viewers could understand the character without having to watch all those old shows. But now it's irrelevant. Everyone has plenty of new who to go back and see what the Doctor's personality is. So now they know who he is, even if they don't know why anymore, and that ties us back to the central mystery of old Who, asking who he is. So it's about time Gallifrey was saved. The Doctor needs to face his end whole, not distracted by unresolved events in his past.
It is weak to say that the Doctor has no reason to save all those people. It's what Baker said when he saved the Daleks, that fear would bring people together. And It's what Hurt said too, and it's what everyone should have realized was wrong. People will come together, and people will do the right thing, without needing some tragic history. We cannot attribute good deeds to a need for redemption, but must realize that good deeds are done for their own reward.
So the doctor can now explore the universe for its own sake, as he always should have. halleluiah.
Additionally the circumstances in which the Hurt Doctor decided to destroy gallifrey are wrong too. At the time of the Moment, Hurt believed that doing so would remove both the threat of the Time Lords and the Daleks from reality, and he was proven wrong, as both have been a danger in the new series. So for only that reason, he could decide to change his mind. It is possible that the power-mad Rassilon would rule the High Council, but better to fight him than to condem billions of innocents to death. More likely, that with the Daleks destroyed, and without the excuse of that War to justify his methods, he would be overthrown by the other Time Lords.
Yes, it is all a bit pat and easy, but just because the special didn't have time to go into all of the consequences of his choices doesn't mean there aren't any. It could be the new launching point for the series, which I think it really needed, after the randomness of last season.
On November 25 2013 05:47 KwarK wrote: The story of Doctor Who (I've only watched the revived series) is that a man, insane with grief for the loss of his people and guilt for his part in it and crippled by loneliness wanders around trying to find a way to exist. He carries with him an enormous burden, both the weight of his actions and the legacy of his people, in different circumstances he'd probably commit suicide but he can't bring himself to make his own species extinct. He has more accumulated knowledge than any other man and the ability to go anywhere and anywhen but he cannot change what he did and must learn to live with it as best he can. Through his interactions with his companions and the human race as a whole he learns to take each day again, to share vicarious joy in their new experiences and wonder, to find new things to value and to protect them and to try to honour the insurmountable debt he carries with him. The persona of the Doctor is his way of trying to live with himself after what he had to do during the time war, his actions, his eccentricity and his obsession with saving everyone and not taking life reflects his pathological crippling guilt.
He learns to experience joy through sharing the universe with his companions, the companions help him deal with his loneliness, he redefines himself and finds new meaning in protecting humanity and helping people and in doing so learns to shed his old identity and the self loathing that goes with it, he learns to forgive himself through saving people at any cost.
The Doctor without the genocide of Gallifrey is no Doctor I have any interest in.
Well that's a good assessment, but remember: the Doctor is different in each of his faces and each face is influenced by what's on his soul.
Nine was a man trying to hide from what he was. He was often in the background of whatever conflict was going on, he never was in the forefront like Ten or Eleven. He was usually the observer, helping in minimal ways because the last time he intervened in a big way, he committed double genocide.
When he regenerated into Ten, he was partially happy because he had found peace with Rose, and he had started to enjoy his travels again. Gallifrey was in the back of his mind, so he regenerated into a man who hid his regret behind a playful exterior. The Moment describes him as "the man who regrets", and this is who he is all through his iteration. His catchphrase is "I'm so, so sorry" (well, one of them anyway), and when Eleven flashes back through all of Ten's companions in "Let's Kill Hitler", he associates all of them with grief.
Eleven was described as "the man who forgets". He barely talks about ANYTHING that happened in previous seasons, even Gallifrey is barely brought up through his tenure, while Ten was quick to talk about it. He (almost) never discusses any of the big things that happened, or his companions, or anything.
While yes, the Doctor will no longer have the Fall of Gallifrey on his mind, the next Doctor doesn't have to be molded by that. This regeneration can be something new, he won't just be Smith or Tenant in a new skin, he'll be someone different, with different things on his mind and priorities. And I find that interesting.
Both of the new series regenerations had development to them. Tennant and Smith's doctors built upon the issues that were resolved in their previous regeneration. 9 dealt with the more superficial emotional repercussions of the time war culminating in the realization that he wasn't the same man, and wouldn't have made the same decision if presented with the choice again.
10 dealt with the deeper emotional ramifications, culminating in the whole Time Lord victorious thing. 10 was the most righteouss doctor, supposedly as atonement for what he had done. Towards the end he realised it was time to move on, but he didn't want to go.
11 was very much in the process of moving on, and dealing with the loneliness that is inherent to his existence as the last of his species. Unlike Tennant's doctor he was less righteouss, more devious, willing to lie and mislead, more childlike and unwilling to deal with deeper emotional issues that 10 wallowed in as self-chastisement.
The new regeneration can indeed be anything, because all of the previous was a lie. I don't see how that can possibly be a good thing.
Somewhere in the future, Rose, Clara and the Moment are sitting around a table, drinking tea.
I imagine their plan would never have worked without the Moment's cooporation, which they wouldn't have, if the previous incarnations didn't even *exist* yet.
Arguably, Clara's interference in the Doctor's timestream also crossed the wires and allowed the Moment to reevaluate the situation. Thus the Doctor was able to break the time lock, to the consternation of everyone, including the Time Lords.
Just watched it, It's pretty good. The banter between the doctors was actually quite solid and didn't feel utterly hammed up, apart from one or two moments. I dunno if I missed something but last time I saw stuff the series cut in the middle of drama with the doctor saving clara from his own timestream death, and suddenly clara is just another companion.
On November 25 2013 16:41 SilverSkyLark wrote: The Moment is that powerful? It can let people in and out of Timelocked events ezmode?
Technically the moment let the doctors in and out before the timelock occurred. The effect of the retcon is basically that this is what "really" had happened while 9/10/11 all had the impression that something else entirely occurred.
On November 25 2013 16:41 SilverSkyLark wrote: The Moment is that powerful? It can let people in and out of Timelocked events ezmode?
Technically the moment let the doctors in and out before the timelock occurred. The effect of the retcon is basically that this is what "really" had happened while 9/10/11 all had the impression that something else entirely occurred.
Sounds about right. Time corrected itself. War Doctor only remembers what happened up until right before he saw The Moment's interface. 9/10/11 certainly don't remember the Interface. He remembers deciding to push the big red button and putting his hand on it. And when he came to, regenerated at the 9th Doctor, he sees Gallifrey destroyed. He puts 2 and 2 together and thinks it was because he pushed the button.
I wish 9 had been in the special. I have a serious soft spot for him, it's a shame Eccleston has such a bad taste in his mouth for Doctor Who.
I just rewatched the episode 'Dalek' and it's one of my favorites still. I'm a little iffy on the whole washing his hands free of it thing, but the two things I keep in mind are: it's still a show for kids at its heart and it's got the potential to give us some cool new episodes. We'll probably get to see an angsty Doctor deal with corrupt Time Lords (eventually) and maybe we'll get a new Master.
On November 26 2013 18:24 Dismay wrote: I wish 9 had been in the special. I have a serious soft spot for him, it's a shame Eccleston has such a bad taste in his mouth for Doctor Who.
I just rewatched the episode 'Dalek' and it's one of my favorites still. I'm a little iffy on the whole washing his hands free of it thing, but the two things I keep in mind are: it's still a show for kids at its heart and it's got the potential to give us some cool new episodes. We'll probably get to see an angsty Doctor deal with corrupt Time Lords (eventually) and maybe we'll get a new Master.
Eccleston said that he turned down being in this movie because he didn't think his role was big enough in the script they sent him that had the 9th. He doesn't seem to really have anything against Who.
On November 26 2013 18:24 Dismay wrote: I wish 9 had been in the special. I have a serious soft spot for him, it's a shame Eccleston has such a bad taste in his mouth for Doctor Who.
I just rewatched the episode 'Dalek' and it's one of my favorites still. I'm a little iffy on the whole washing his hands free of it thing, but the two things I keep in mind are: it's still a show for kids at its heart and it's got the potential to give us some cool new episodes. We'll probably get to see an angsty Doctor deal with corrupt Time Lords (eventually) and maybe we'll get a new Master.
Eccleston said that he turned down being in this movie because he didn't think his role was big enough in the script they sent him that had the 9th. He doesn't seem to really have anything against Who.
He does, read elsewhere. He had some serious personal issues with the producers.
On November 26 2013 18:24 Dismay wrote: I wish 9 had been in the special. I have a serious soft spot for him, it's a shame Eccleston has such a bad taste in his mouth for Doctor Who.
I just rewatched the episode 'Dalek' and it's one of my favorites still. I'm a little iffy on the whole washing his hands free of it thing, but the two things I keep in mind are: it's still a show for kids at its heart and it's got the potential to give us some cool new episodes. We'll probably get to see an angsty Doctor deal with corrupt Time Lords (eventually) and maybe we'll get a new Master.
Eccleston said that he turned down being in this movie because he didn't think his role was big enough in the script they sent him that had the 9th. He doesn't seem to really have anything against Who.
Also, as a Perry Rhodan reader, the events seemed quite logically consistent.
It was all told from the past, the time it was told from was the Time War. The Moment gave the Doctor a look at a possible future, so they didnt change a fixed event as it didnt happen yet.
The old Doctor said it right, The Moment showed the exact future he needed, as it was the future that was produced by his actions while being influenced by that future.
How The Moment managed to do it....apparently it met Rose in the weavings of time when she was the allknowing Bad Wolf.
of course, after all that the "oh, we simply forgot we did this and instead thought we killed everyone" was a bit lame.
How come David does not recall saving Gallifrey but recalls getting married to the Queen? Also, how come Matt knows when he should come in by throwing the fez? That implies that he has the memories of the 10th doctor, right?
On December 02 2013 15:43 SilverSkyLark wrote: Uh, a few questions.
How come David does not recall saving Gallifrey but recalls getting married to the Queen?
I think the timelines pretty much corrected itself so that everyone but Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi forgot about meeting other Doctors and what happened on Gallifrey. John Hurt and David Tennant also forgot about anything from Matt Smith's timeline as well, such as meeting Clara.
Alright, I've been thinking and I have an even bigger freaking problem here:
Go watch The End of Time part 2 again. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Now think:
1) The only possible way to fit that into the new continuity is to have all the shit with Lord President happen before the Doctors show up and blink Gallifrey but AFTER he gets The Moment, so in other words, at the same time as the 50th special (relatively).
2) If that's the case, these follow:
A) Gallifrey is "hell", and that's what the Doctor now wants to bring back. B) Lord President got zapped back at the end when the Master's machine was destroyed. That means the Time Lords STILL want to end time and The Doctor wants to bring The Master back for some reason. C) The Time Lords broke every single rule in the Time War (the forbidden weapons, the end of time, more that The Doctor alludes to in The End of Time), bringing them back still on hyper alert mode might not be the best plan, especially considering the Daleks survived as well.
3) So why the fuck does he want to find Gallifrey again?
On December 02 2013 15:43 SilverSkyLark wrote: Uh, a few questions.
How come David does not recall saving Gallifrey but recalls getting married to the Queen? Also, how come Matt knows when he should come in by throwing the fez? That implies that he has the memories of the 10th doctor, right?
The first time he comes across the Queen he does not have any memories of the encounter and is surprised when she declares him to be her arch enemy or whatever.
On December 03 2013 00:39 deth2munkies wrote: 3) So why the fuck does he want to find Gallifrey again?
Even if the heads are crazy - and I would love to see a Gallifrey going full psycho - most of its population was just random citizens, victims of the war. That being said, I want a Doctor vs Time Lord episode.
In End of time Part 2, one of the time lord council says that the MAIN part of the Time War is taking place FAR AWAY from Gallifrey. So if The Doctor used The Moment to end the Time War, and this time he only saves Gallifrey, what happens to the rest of the people getting fucked by the Time War?
On December 03 2013 01:25 deth2munkies wrote: OH AND ONE MORE:
In End of time Part 2, one of the time lord council says that the MAIN part of the Time War is taking place FAR AWAY from Gallifrey. So if The Doctor used The Moment to end the Time War, and this time he only saves Gallifrey, what happens to the rest of the people getting fucked by the Time War?
Something like 'oh this was the final defence so it was all the Daleks vs all the Time Lords at this one location'.
On December 03 2013 01:25 deth2munkies wrote: OH AND ONE MORE:
In End of time Part 2, one of the time lord council says that the MAIN part of the Time War is taking place FAR AWAY from Gallifrey. So if The Doctor used The Moment to end the Time War, and this time he only saves Gallifrey, what happens to the rest of the people getting fucked by the Time War?
Something like 'oh this was the final defence so it was all the Daleks vs all the Time Lords at this one location'.
Specifically said it was more than just those 2 races and that the lesser ones were, "Dying by the billions, then being revived to find new ways to torment them" or something along those lines.
LOL there are SO many contradictions in plot lines. I think this is just something you have to accept if you are to have a tv show based entirely on time travel.
On December 03 2013 05:11 KingofGods wrote: LOL there are SO many contradictions in plot lines. I think this is just something you have to accept if you are to have a tv show based entirely on time travel.
They've been doing a fairly good job at keeping a cohesive internal mythos so far, at least handwaving some of the bigger problems. Suspension of disbelief about time travel and paradoxes is one thing, but this is changing the foundational event for 7 seasons of the show without any good reason.
On December 03 2013 05:11 KingofGods wrote: LOL there are SO many contradictions in plot lines. I think this is just something you have to accept if you are to have a tv show based entirely on time travel.
They've been doing a fairly good job at keeping a cohesive internal mythos so far, at least handwaving some of the bigger problems. Suspension of disbelief about time travel and paradoxes is one thing, but this is changing the foundational event for 7 seasons of the show without any good reason.
I think the reason it was done was to continue the character development of the Doctor (and I think that is a fantastic reason). From what I gather from most of the people I know that really like the show it isn't the notion of a time/space machine, or aliens, or sexy companions that keeps them going. It isn't even generally good story telling. It's about having a main character that, for all intents and purposes can be likened to a god who ISN'T impassable. He feels, deeply, and is moved to action by those feelings (cf the starwhale episode). In his own words a lot of what he does is to atone for the horrific evil he (thought) he did to his own people and wants forgiveness. Now he has the opportunity to set everything right and finally get closure.
I think it was a phenomenal choice and I am incredibly excited to see how they carry this on in the future.
I assume it's something like since he didn't destroy Gallifrey, all the other regenerations didn't happen in the other universe and so the timelords on Gallifrey made him the doctor who didn't destroy it so he gets a new timeline with a reset 12 regens?
[–]Teh_BukkitRory [score hidden] 41 minutes ago The Doctor said it's a completely new regeneration cycle, does that mean Capaldi is number one again, with (at least) twelve more Doctors to come?
[–]Ircza [score hidden] 40 minutes ago Indeed it does.
Well with those new cycle of regenarations it seems to me that BBC just want to milk more money of Doctor Who
It's been going for 50 years... the person who kills it off better be ready for the backlash. The BBC doesn't really have a choice, there are enough people who would be outraged if they ended it that they basically can't.
Well with those new cycle of regenarations it seems to me that BBC just want to milk more money of Doctor Who
It's been going for 50 years... the person who kills it off better be ready for the backlash. The BBC doesn't really have a choice, there are enough people who would be outraged if they ended it that they basically can't.
Dont be silly, they took the show off the air for 16 years before. It wont always be as popular as it is now, so the same thing could happen again. Nothing lasts forever
On December 26 2013 10:59 thezanursic wrote: Amm I the only one who thinks that the day of the doctor is the worst thing that has happened to this show (2005).
Probably not, but overall it seemed, in TL, that it was an improvement over season 7.
On December 26 2013 10:59 thezanursic wrote: Amm I the only one who thinks that the day of the doctor is the worst thing that has happened to this show (2005).
Probably not, but overall it seemed, in TL, that it was an improvement over season 7.
Idk i like season 7, but its mostly cuse of Clara. Shes seems way better then amy pond.
Season 7 also includes episodes with the Ponds, and I thought there was a decent amount of weak episodes, or at least not as cool as they could have been.
Just enough sentimentality with the breath on a mirror thing/delusion of Amelia to make me miss him while not making me miserable and hate Capaldi. Good way to end 11 all around.
If it's because he didn't bleat on and whine about not wanting to go, I actually love it. It was touching enough while not trying to hammer in emotional impact with fists made of ham. We're already going from the youngest Doctor to one older than any of the Nu-Who Doctors; if they tried to tear out your heart and stomp on it I can imagine a lot of 14 year old girls dropping the show entirely.
If you want to complain about the absurdity of regeneration nuking, while I personally thought it was awesome I can see why it might turn some people off.
If it's because he didn't bleat on and whine about not wanting to go, I actually love it. It was touching enough while not trying to hammer in emotional impact with fists made of ham. We're already going from the youngest Doctor to one older than any of the Nu-Who Doctors; if they tried to tear out your heart and stomp on it I can imagine a lot of 14 year old girls dropping the show entirely.
If you want to complain about the absurdity of regeneration nuking, while I personally thought it was awesome I can see why it might turn some people off.
I love how Moffat managed to place everything that was in Matt Smiths run in there, the Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels, the Crack, nice mix without getting the feeling that it was forced. I actually liked the part where there was less drama when he was going to regenerate. I don't think they could have forced drama in there with the way the episode was written and as you said, it's touching enough to give people feels. I don't think they could have gone with a regen like 10's cuz fangirls will drop it.
It felt like the episode was "weak"? It felt draggy at some parts.
So the crack never fully healed? When he did the big bang again, the crack was still there and the Time Lords found it eventually and wanted to go in.
And I hate how word was going around that Moffat will tie loose ends with that episode when it didn't. Like how they saved Gallifrey in the 50th Anniv Movie and then suddenly when you watch the End of Time Parts 1 and 2, Gallifrey was still out there getting shot and shit.
Yeah and now they got a new plot weapon, the Gallifreyans can just open a crack and send the Doctor help.
If it's because he didn't bleat on and whine about not wanting to go, I actually love it. It was touching enough while not trying to hammer in emotional impact with fists made of ham. We're already going from the youngest Doctor to one older than any of the Nu-Who Doctors; if they tried to tear out your heart and stomp on it I can imagine a lot of 14 year old girls dropping the show entirely.
If you want to complain about the absurdity of regeneration nuking, while I personally thought it was awesome I can see why it might turn some people off.
I love how Moffat managed to place everything that was in Matt Smiths run in there, the Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels, the Crack, nice mix without getting the feeling that it was forced. I actually liked the part where there was less drama when he was going to regenerate. I don't think they could have forced drama in there with the way the episode was written and as you said, it's touching enough to give people feels. I don't think they could have gone with a regen like 10's cuz fangirls will drop it.
It felt like the episode was "weak"? It felt draggy at some parts.
So the crack never fully healed? When he did the big bang again, the crack was still there and the Time Lords found it eventually and wanted to go in.
And I hate how word was going around that Moffat will tie loose ends with that episode when it didn't. Like how they saved Gallifrey in the 50th Anniv Movie and then suddenly when you watch the End of Time Parts 1 and 2, Gallifrey was still out there getting shot and shit.
Yeah and now they got a new plot weapon, the Gallifreyans can just open a crack and send the Doctor help.
The crack was described as a scar - even if the universe was remade I guess that part was, too. I actually liked that it finally answered the question of 'who caused the Tardis to blow up' unless that was explained in season six somewhere and I missed it. It's been a while since I watched that.
I don't think they'll be opening up the weak points forever - I'm pretty sure the goal is still to go bust Gallifrey out someday. And there were a bunch of nice little things, like the little boy asking him if he'll come back with Amy's theme playing and Eleven being the one to drop his bowtie.
I thought it was pretty good! I can see why you think it felt weak though. If there's one thing that annoys me about Moffat it's that he's very liberal with randomly tacking years onto the Doctor's life. Jesus, just throw in a hundred years between every visit why don't'cha.
[–]Teh_BukkitRory [score hidden] 41 minutes ago The Doctor said it's a completely new regeneration cycle, does that mean Capaldi is number one again, with (at least) twelve more Doctors to come?
[–]Ircza [score hidden] 40 minutes ago Indeed it does.
[–]redbullcatTennant 261 points 12 hours ago I definitely think Moffat is going for First Doctor parallels. Clara teaches at Coal Hill School, as of the 50th. Tom (the guy at the start of the 50th, and I possibly saw him in this episode (on Trenzalore) but I'm not sure) also teaches at Coal Hill and may be the 'other' companion in series 8. That makes two teachers from Coal Hill School - same as Ian and Barbara with the 1st Doctor. Capaldi is 'old', compared to Smith or Tennant - in fact he's the same age as Hartnell was (55). Capaldi may be difficult to deal with, unpredictable etc, just like the First Doctor was. It's not much but I think there's a good link to the First Doctor here. There's probably a lot more links and clues (provided I'm not imagining this) that I've not seen. [–]IAmManMan 265 points 12 hours ago Hartnell couldn't pilot the TARDIS. Capaldi seems to have forgotten how. permalinkparentreportgive goldreply
I've only watched a few episodes of Classic Who, so I don't have anything to say about the 12 and 1 comparisons.
I will say that forgetting how to fly the Tardis is probably just the result of The Doctor being whacked out of his mind post-regen, like 10 and 11's first moments.
The reason why his regeneration was powerful enough to nuke all the Daleks was because it was the first in a second set, which is a rare and powerful thing, also likely that the Time Lords added some extra spice to it just for that occasion (see the Night of the Doctor short for evidence that they can influence regeneration).
Likely, this is also causing his memory problems, it's an entirely new set of regenerations, so it's likely that a lot of stuff will get lost in the transition. It'll be interesting to see if they handwave it all away in the first couple of episodes or whether it becomes a recurring issue and the Doctor is drastically different afterwards. The theory that he's acting like the first holds more weight than normal because he IS the first in this line of regens, so the parallels to Doctor #1 are not accidental.
The reason I really didn't like this episode was that it felt like it was so obligated to tie up all the loose ends of the 11th's through lines that it took up way too much of the story doing so, leaving a barebones story for the actual episode overall. I mean it's really just the Doctor sitting in 1 town the entire time, Clara getting sent home twice but through plot contrivances returning at 300 year intervals, and cameos by all the bad guys (but the Daleks are, as usual, the only ones that actually matter).
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see whether or not Gallifrey manages to return or if they're just going to sit there in the parallel universe the whole time. It showed they can open new cracks (the one in the sky), but both cracks closed by the end of the episode, so it's still uncertain. I have hope for Capaldi because he's a great actor, but I'm not sure about the way the story is going, looks like we'll have to wait ~6 months to find out, in true Dr. Who fashion.
Edit: Also, 1 more thing: I still hate Clara. The actress is fine, but the character is just a cipher of "what a companion should be" based on all the ones that came before them without any personality of her own. She somehow knows everything about the Doctor after a couple of episodes and we're never shown how she knows these things. Even before the "Name of the Doctor" episode where she went through his entire timeline and thus arguably knows him better than he knows himself (but this sentiment is NEVER manifested because goddammit that'd make her interesting). She gets in trouble at exactly the right times for the plots, she helps out with words and not actions at the exact right time in the plot, etc.
Compared to Rose, Martha, Donna, and Amy she's nothing. They all had interesting family dynamics on top of a much more headstrong personality that lead to actual clashes with The Doctor quite frequently, This episode was the first time we saw her family and they were pretty much just played for one gag, and she's never done anything to upset The Doctor. Compare Rings of Ankheten (or whatever) to The Beast Below as second episodes for the companion. Amy takes such strong action that The Doctor wants to throw her out, but she ends up saving the day. Clara ends up saving the day because of a leaf and a speech. She doesn't actually DO ANYTHING, just talks about stuff and it magically works.
In this episode again, the only thing worthwhile that she does is talk into the crack and somehow convince the Time Lords that The Doctor is worth saving. FUCK, if it was that easy to communicate, why hadn't The Doctor already explained the situation through the crack? I thought it was damn near impossible to talk back and forth without some massive translator on their end because of the distortion. All she serves as is a massive, gaping plothole and a failed attempt at an audience insert character.
On December 26 2013 21:28 Crushinator wrote: I must say the special was not as epic as I hoped. Nothing much happened really. It was alright I geuss. Gonna miss the 11th.
They might have tried to calm down and try not to be rediculous but thats what I miss
The reason why his regeneration was powerful enough to nuke all the Daleks was because it was the first in a second set, which is a rare and powerful thing, also likely that the Time Lords added some extra spice to it just for that occasion (see the Night of the Doctor short for evidence that they can influence regeneration).
Likely, this is also causing his memory problems, it's an entirely new set of regenerations, so it's likely that a lot of stuff will get lost in the transition. It'll be interesting to see if they handwave it all away in the first couple of episodes or whether it becomes a recurring issue and the Doctor is drastically different afterwards. The theory that he's acting like the first holds more weight than normal because he IS the first in this line of regens, so the parallels to Doctor #1 are not accidental.
The reason I really didn't like this episode was that it felt like it was so obligated to tie up all the loose ends of the 11th's through lines that it took up way too much of the story doing so, leaving a barebones story for the actual episode overall. I mean it's really just the Doctor sitting in 1 town the entire time, Clara getting sent home twice but through plot contrivances returning at 300 year intervals, and cameos by all the bad guys (but the Daleks are, as usual, the only ones that actually matter).
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see whether or not Gallifrey manages to return or if they're just going to sit there in the parallel universe the whole time. It showed they can open new cracks (the one in the sky), but both cracks closed by the end of the episode, so it's still uncertain. I have hope for Capaldi because he's a great actor, but I'm not sure about the way the story is going, looks like we'll have to wait ~6 months to find out, in true Dr. Who fashion.
Edit: Also, 1 more thing: I still hate Clara. The actress is fine, but the character is just a cipher of "what a companion should be" based on all the ones that came before them without any personality of her own. She somehow knows everything about the Doctor after a couple of episodes and we're never shown how she knows these things. Even before the "Name of the Doctor" episode where she went through his entire timeline and thus arguably knows him better than he knows himself (but this sentiment is NEVER manifested because goddammit that'd make her interesting). She gets in trouble at exactly the right times for the plots, she helps out with words and not actions at the exact right time in the plot, etc.
Compared to Rose, Martha, Donna, and Amy she's nothing. They all had interesting family dynamics on top of a much more headstrong personality that lead to actual clashes with The Doctor quite frequently, This episode was the first time we saw her family and they were pretty much just played for one gag, and she's never done anything to upset The Doctor. Compare Rings of Ankheten (or whatever) to The Beast Below as second episodes for the companion. Amy takes such strong action that The Doctor wants to throw her out, but she ends up saving the day. Clara ends up saving the day because of a leaf and a speech. She doesn't actually DO ANYTHING, just talks about stuff and it magically works.
In this episode again, the only thing worthwhile that she does is talk into the crack and somehow convince the Time Lords that The Doctor is worth saving. FUCK, if it was that easy to communicate, why hadn't The Doctor already explained the situation through the crack? I thought it was damn near impossible to talk back and forth without some massive translator on their end because of the distortion. All she serves as is a massive, gaping plothole and a failed attempt at an audience insert character.
I'm going to agree with all of that, especially the points on Clara. Worst companion so far since the 2005 comeback.
This was my first regeneration that I've watched "live", since I only recently started watching the show, and I thought it was rather brilliant. I really liked Matt Smith, and I would have been pissed if they gave him a crappy goodbye. I mean, none of them have been bad so far, but I was still worried.
The thing I really liked about the episode was that it felt like a goodbye to Matt more than just an episode. Like, Eccleston's and Tennant's were good and made sense, but were were at the end of otherwise stand alone episodes, in essence really only giving them a goodbye "scene" rather than a goodbye "episode". This whole thing felt like a love letter to Matt from the show writers, which is great for me since I grew to love him a lot over the last seasons.
It makes sense to me, too. 9 was mostly quiet and just looking to find his place, and he found Rose, regenerating to save her. 10 was atoning for his mistakes and always in the action (seriously, so many action scenes in his run), and he regenerated after a battle and after patching things up with all of his companions. 11 was always sentimental. He just wanted to enjoy and help and do things, and growing old loving and being loved by the town and Clara seemed perfect for him, in a way.
I dunno. The episode dragged a bit, but it just felt right. Matt getting speeches, the emotional scenes, the callbacks to all his old enemies and adventures... great
BUT NOW I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL FUCKING AUTUMN ARE YOU KIDDING ME
On December 27 2013 16:33 Requizen wrote: I was waiting for that for some time.
This was my first regeneration that I've watched "live", since I only recently started watching the show, and I thought it was rather brilliant. I really liked Matt Smith, and I would have been pissed if they gave him a crappy goodbye. I mean, none of them have been bad so far, but I was still worried.
The thing I really liked about the episode was that it felt like a goodbye to Matt more than just an episode. Like, Eccleston's and Tennant's were good and made sense, but were were at the end of otherwise stand alone episodes, in essence really only giving them a goodbye "scene" rather than a goodbye "episode". This whole thing felt like a love letter to Matt from the show writers, which is great for me since I grew to love him a lot over the last seasons.
It makes sense to me, too. 9 was mostly quiet and just looking to find his place, and he found Rose, regenerating to save her. 10 was atoning for his mistakes and always in the action (seriously, so many action scenes in his run), and he regenerated after a battle and after patching things up with all of his companions. 11 was always sentimental. He just wanted to enjoy and help and do things, and growing old loving and being loved by the town and Clara seemed perfect for him, in a way.
I dunno. The episode dragged a bit, but it just felt right. Matt getting speeches, the emotional scenes, the callbacks to all his old enemies and adventures... great
BUT NOW I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL FUCKING AUTUMN ARE YOU KIDDING ME
I would say 11 wasn't very sentimental at all, 10 was the sentimental one. A willingness to lie and betray the confidence of his companion and the townspeople whenever he thought it best was very characteristic of him though, as was the voluntary retreat into the childlike setting of the town of Christmas.
I also would say that 10 had an extremely elaborate goodbye compared to the others, the fact that he had to die was a theme that spanned several episodes and a special. As much as I hated seeing 10 walk around with his silly "serious face" it was really well done.
I really didn't like this episode. I'm not a big fan of Matt Smith's doctor to begin with, his episodes were always full of plot devices that made no sense, but this one episode... well, it was certainly 'special'. Specially full of plot devices and contrivances.
I hope the new Doctor will be more like the first one, the old, wise and rational thinker instead of a crazy maniac.
Pretty meh special overall in my opinion. Still haven't answered how Clara still exists as a functioning individual rather than echoes despite jumping into the Doctor's timestream and deciding to introduce a whole new family for her instead of just reusing the family she was a nanny for (did I miss her leaving them or something?). Biggest loose end and likely one Moffat doesn't know how to solve yet.
Also, did Old!Doctor forget he has a time machine that lets him return at the exact moment he left or what? No reason not to say a proper goodbye/have a few last adventures with Clara offscreen. Instead, ditch her again. Way to go Doctor, dickness accomplished..
Why Daleks didn't drop the tech field during the time they controlled Tasha Lem and just vaporize the planet, I have no idea. Then again, these are the same Daleks that built the perfect prison for the Doctor that could be opened by the sonic screwdriver.
Still, an interesting setting and a way to solve the regeneration problem, even if it was a pretty obvious solution. If the crack can just teleport around, though, they might have done that earlier instead of trapping the Doctor for hundreds of years (they could hear Clara, surely they could hear him when he talked around the crack the first time).
Pretty meh special overall in my opinion. Still haven't answered how Clara still exists as a functioning individual rather than echoes despite jumping into the Doctor's timestream and deciding to introduce a whole new family for her instead of just reusing the family she was a nanny for (did I miss her leaving them or something?). Biggest loose end and likely one Moffat doesn't know how to solve yet.
Also, did Old!Doctor forget he has a time machine that lets him return at the exact moment he left or what? No reason not to say a proper goodbye/have a few last adventures with Clara offscreen. Instead, ditch her again. Way to go Doctor, dickness accomplished..
Why Daleks didn't drop the tech field during the time they controlled Tasha Lem and just vaporize the planet, I have no idea. Then again, these are the same Daleks that built the perfect prison for the Doctor that could be opened by the sonic screwdriver.
Still, an interesting setting and a way to solve the regeneration problem, even if it was a pretty obvious solution. If the crack can just teleport around, though, they might have done that earlier instead of trapping the Doctor for hundreds of years (they could hear Clara, surely they could hear him when he talked around the crack the first time).
But hey, it's sci-fi, there's always issues.
In the episode the Doc says Tasha would never give them the codes to the field, even with the dalek inside of her. right?
Pretty meh special overall in my opinion. Still haven't answered how Clara still exists as a functioning individual rather than echoes despite jumping into the Doctor's timestream and deciding to introduce a whole new family for her instead of just reusing the family she was a nanny for (did I miss her leaving them or something?). Biggest loose end and likely one Moffat doesn't know how to solve yet.
Also, did Old!Doctor forget he has a time machine that lets him return at the exact moment he left or what? No reason not to say a proper goodbye/have a few last adventures with Clara offscreen. Instead, ditch her again. Way to go Doctor, dickness accomplished..
Why Daleks didn't drop the tech field during the time they controlled Tasha Lem and just vaporize the planet, I have no idea. Then again, these are the same Daleks that built the perfect prison for the Doctor that could be opened by the sonic screwdriver.
Still, an interesting setting and a way to solve the regeneration problem, even if it was a pretty obvious solution. If the crack can just teleport around, though, they might have done that earlier instead of trapping the Doctor for hundreds of years (they could hear Clara, surely they could hear him when he talked around the crack the first time).
But hey, it's sci-fi, there's always issues.
In the episode the Doc says Tasha would never give them the codes to the field, even with the dalek inside of her. right?
Pretty meh special overall in my opinion. Still haven't answered how Clara still exists as a functioning individual rather than echoes despite jumping into the Doctor's timestream and deciding to introduce a whole new family for her instead of just reusing the family she was a nanny for (did I miss her leaving them or something?). Biggest loose end and likely one Moffat doesn't know how to solve yet.
Also, did Old!Doctor forget he has a time machine that lets him return at the exact moment he left or what? No reason not to say a proper goodbye/have a few last adventures with Clara offscreen. Instead, ditch her again. Way to go Doctor, dickness accomplished..
Why Daleks didn't drop the tech field during the time they controlled Tasha Lem and just vaporize the planet, I have no idea. Then again, these are the same Daleks that built the perfect prison for the Doctor that could be opened by the sonic screwdriver.
Still, an interesting setting and a way to solve the regeneration problem, even if it was a pretty obvious solution. If the crack can just teleport around, though, they might have done that earlier instead of trapping the Doctor for hundreds of years (they could hear Clara, surely they could hear him when he talked around the crack the first time).
But hey, it's sci-fi, there's always issues.
In the episode the Doc says Tasha would never give them the codes to the field, even with the dalek inside of her. right?
Then blow up the ship creating the field. The Daleks have never cared about that before and it can't be that hard when you control everyone onboard.
The Gallifreyans knew that The Doctor got a 13th regeneration somehow ("All twelve of them.." "No, sir, all THIRTEEN!"). It's possible they figured out it was them that gave it to him and added the aforementioned spice that he needed.
The Gallifreyans knew that The Doctor got a 13th regeneration somehow ("All twelve of them.." "No, sir, all THIRTEEN!"). It's possible they figured out it was them that gave it to him and added the aforementioned spice that he needed.
The Gallifreyans knew that The Doctor got a 13th regeneration somehow ("All twelve of them.." "No, sir, all THIRTEEN!"). It's possible they figured out it was them that gave it to him and added the aforementioned spice that he needed.
On December 31 2013 21:38 Erasme wrote: just started the fifth season, amys pretty hot.
She isn't hard to look at, though he need to be in mini-skirts during amazing adventures does seem a little silly. I like the current companion a lot more, both in attitude and looks.
I was too drunk to remember half of it and need to watch it again, although i remember being very unimpressed with everything except Claras body, might be because the room was so loud i could barely hear / watch it.
On August 25 2014 08:56 Scarecrow wrote: I think this stupid world tour and huge announcement gap ruined it for me. Keep seeing Capaldi and not the doctor. Pretty tedious episode.
As someone who followed none of the pre hype, I felt he did good. Felt like a doctor rather then just capaldi trying to be a doctor.
It felt like everything was kind of wayyy over explained (Nothing was left ambiguous at all, from things like clara awkwardly specifically pointing out he was translating the dinosaur, to the "we're lesbians and she's a lizard, lets specifically say this 10 times a minute") but I guess DW has always been a bit like that
I've seen season 1-7 and all specials like 3 times and loved it, but somehow this episode was just meh for me. Not sure if it was because of Capaldi or getting used to an older Doctor in general. It could have been the episode too, it dragged on a bit much. I didn't really get into it, maybe it was the writing, I've seen better from Moffat
But I guess it was just the first episode where things are set in motion for episodes to come. And I'm still curious about what's coming.
I thought that Capaldi translating the dinosaur was actually him talking about himself, and I liked the ambiguity at the end about whether the Doctor pushed him out or not. Howeer I think they overdid the whole 'we're a couple' thing, and it seems like the dinosaur in London had no real purpose in the end.
On August 25 2014 08:56 Scarecrow wrote: I think this stupid world tour and huge announcement gap ruined it for me. Keep seeing Capaldi and not the doctor. Pretty tedious episode.
Probably. But she did call him 'boyfriend' and not 'husband' so maybe not. There is a reasonable chance she's related to Tasha Lem from Time of the Doctor as well.
On the other hand, a very naive part of me is hoping Missy -> Mistress -> Master.
I don't think it is River/Tasha Lem. It might be the part of Clara that was left in the Doctor's "corpse" in "The Name of the Doctor". She looks a bit like like Mary Poppins (a nanny, like Clara), considers him her boyfriend, which the episode itself implies Clara does on some level. She apparently collects the people the doctor has killed in her paradise, which would make sense if she was with him throughout his whole life, like Clara was. There has been no negative consequences for Clara for her experience in "The Name of the Doctor" even though the episode implied that it would not be a healthy thing to do. That storyline thus far feels unresolved.
I don't think it is River/Tasha Lem. It might be the part of Clara that was left in the Doctor's "corpse" in "The Name of the Doctor". She looks a bit like like Mary Poppins (a nanny, like Clara), considers him her boyfriend, which the episode itself implies Clara does on some level. She apparently collects the people the doctor has killed in her paradise, which would make sense if she was with him throughout his whole life, like Clara was. There has been no negative consequences for Clara for her experience in "The Name of the Doctor" even though the episode implied that it would not be a healthy thing to do. That storyline thus far feels unresolved.
Knowing Moffat, we probably won't get a resolution until the season finale, and it's gonna be overly complicated and containing twenty minutes of sudden exposition that was never foreshadowed or anything at all.
On a brighter note, Capaldi is doing a kick-ass job, I think; might be preferable to Smith.
Definitely the best episode of the season. However, still too much focus on Clara and not enough on the Doctor. I know she's supposed to be the viewer's avatar, and she's way more interesting than she was last season, but we're not seeing enough of Capaldi for my tastes.
Some bits seem to imply that a monster really exists (e.g., what was the thing in Danny's bedroom? It didn't act like a child.) but perhaps the Doctor's fear was started by Clara. Also, something had to have written "listen" at the very beginning.
I find the best episodes are ones where the doctor is in over his head. The season finale with the Ood and that demon. The library episode that introduced river song. The weeping angels. Too many Smith episodes put him up as a god heads above all else in the universe.
Also I like how this new guy portrays the doctor. Hope they have more of him and less of Clara. And they can lose all the stupid sexual tension they put in for no reason.
there was probably some kind of monster thing going on, i mean the sheets thing and then whatever made them emergency jump from that planet.
However, there allready was an episode about the end of time with a planet of the last human survivors fleeing from the darkness and it was different, as i recall.
also, i want more mistyrious episodes about some dark secret that dont end up with darlek or cyborgs. Like the one about the black hole.
I agree that 'listen' has been the best so far, could be up there with 'blink' or 'silence in the library' in terms of overall quality. 'Time heist' was also quite good but I found the end to be underwhelming, partially because of editing, since I had the impression something was still going on while the doctor was flying everybody back to their places, expecting a bigger reveal that never came.
Overall this season looks good, and Capaldi is doing fine work.
On September 25 2014 04:40 Ender985 wrote: I agree that 'listen' has been the best so far, could be up there with 'blink' or 'silence in the library' in terms of overall quality. 'Time heist' was also quite good but I found the end to be underwhelming, partially because of editing, since I had the impression something was still going on while the doctor was flying everybody back to their places, expecting a bigger reveal that never came.
Overall this season looks good, and Capaldi is doing fine work.
On September 25 2014 04:40 Ender985 wrote: I agree that 'listen' has been the best so far, could be up there with 'blink' or 'silence in the library' in terms of overall quality. 'Time heist' was also quite good but I found the end to be underwhelming, partially because of editing, since I had the impression something was still going on while the doctor was flying everybody back to their places, expecting a bigger reveal that never came.
Overall this season looks good, and Capaldi is doing fine work.
It seems like an information paradox to me. He went on the Heist because the Director, who he met on the heist, contacted him later because of something he said on the heist. She regretted leaving the Tellers behind and thus contracted the Doctor to start the rescue mission, and it was on this mission of course that he gave her the idea to contact him later.
Pretty sure Kill the Moon was the dumbest thing I've seen on TV this year (and I watched the Blacklist). Apart from that, the season has been quite ok, pretty satisfied with it when compared to last season.
So does the Clara in this season remember all the times that she died to save the doctor or did she forget jumping into his timeline? Cause I feel like she is being a total bitch to Capaldi and I went from her being my favorite companion to least favorite of the new series.
Her outburst didn't seem too justified to me. He was just doing a bang-up job of giving Clara exactly what she asked for -- his apathy was the best way to make the student feel "special".
I think her outburst is meant to be illogical, and it's just personality clash boiling over, which is something that's kind of been built upon in every episode. He went from Mr. Nice Guy in a bow-tie to Mr. Surly in his regeneration, and it's kind of a weird pairing with Clara.
I hope we're nearing a new companion. Clara's story is played out, and Capaldi would probably be even better with a Donna Noble-type companion.
Yeah, but I feel like a life-or-death situation for the human race is not the time for being a smart-aleck about giving someone "exactly what she asked for." He was being pretty condescending about "taking off your training wheels"
The whose situation was incredibly contrived anyway. + Show Spoiler +
First of all, most of Earth didn't even know about the egg thing, so when she described the creature to mission control then they would have no idea what she meant. Secondly, if they were voting by lights on/off, then half the world doesn't get a vote even if, in those few minutes, they did somehow manage to coordinate a global effort to vote. Heck, the Scottish Referendum process took longer than that for people to make up their minds and reach a consensus.
Also, the astronaut woman was the only one who displayed an ounce of sense. Was Clara really going to risk sacrificing the whole human race for one space dragon, even the "last of its species" (which no one had any way to know was actually true)? She portrayed the risk as "the creature might attack us, or it might now" but no one realized that even if it flew away peacefully, you STILL DON'T HAVE A MOON which would wreak even worse havoc than before. Your choices are literally "kill it" or "die." No "take a chance that it might turn out okay." There was no way to know that it would lay a new egg (which is pretty much biologically impossible, but let's ignore that for now) immediately afterwards, and that would still screw with gravity regardless.
Oh, and there's the fact that creatures in eggs get their nourishment and grow off of what's already in the egg. The embryo gets bigger and more massive, but the overall mass stays the same. The moon wouldn't get denser unless it was having external material actually put into it, otherwise it's a closed system.
This one somehow managed to make less sense than the Robin Hood episode.
Capaldi has been almost single-handedly making all the sub-par episodes this season watchable. Am I the only one who really didn't like the schoolgirl these past few episodws? Honestly this dislike might be irrational, but something about her character strikes me as a bratty and niave. Also the entire struggle of killing the creature vs the potential goddamn death of humanity wasn't handled so well imo, and Clara's last minute abort was not what I would consider a heroic act, but rather a stupid and misinformed one.
Also Clara and Pink's relationship gasn't grown on me yet, although their dynamic in the caretaker episode gave me hope for an interesting relationship. Personally I think this show would be much better without Clara at this point. How does everyone else feel about the way Who has written all the "protagonists" as almost stupidly fearless in a lot of situations?
Oh, and before I forget - Fricking germ spray? Really?
Can we just discuss how insanely dumb the proposition of last episode was?
- I'm leaving you here to make a choice because it's too important for humanity, I can't interfere. Oh btw, humanity choses to destroy the thing, and the only reason the thing isn't destroyed is Clara, who is here because I... interfered. - "I knew you would make the right decision"... This was NOT the right decision. The problem presented is a problem of incomplete information. Based on the information that was given, humanity SHOULD want to destroy that creature. What kind of positive message does it send about humanity? "If I don't tell you all the facts about a potential threat, you should be able to realize that you're not supposed to destroy it"? What is that about? - I'm Clara, I'm mad at the doctor because the Doctor put me in a situation where humanity's future was in my hands... kind of like he did last week when he had me bait the Skovox Blitzer... or the countless other times where this happened...
Literally nothing about this makes any sense at all.
If Dr. Who isn't about suspending your disbelief then i don't know what is. I quite enjoyed it, though i acknowledge it made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
As for the story it is no more over the top ridiculous than say the episode with a 'star whale' transporting humans. The thing that hatched could even have been said star whale if they wanted to tie it to that earlier episode.
What seems stranger is Clara suddenly blowing up with anger as if she has forgotten the whole history of the doctor that she has been intertwined with. The episode is a small glimpse of the decisions he has had to make and the weight of responsibility that rests on his shoulders and Clara knows this, right? The doctor even had the option to destroy the Daleks before they were created and chose not to.
It is as if she just wants to be a passive observer that gets to go on 'safe' adventures and gets mad if she has to really be involved, but has that ever been true?
Capaldi is very good but the episodes are not living up to the potential of the history/present/future of the entire Universe.
(My mistake of course star whales are mammals and would be born, so there are apparently both whales and dragons out there, I wonder if they get along..)
I dunno i mean i only started watching Dr Who this series beacause of Capaldi and i thought from what i had seen before that silliness like this was just something that had to be accepted about the program. I saw a couple of episodes with Tennant and Smith and they were all this ridiculous. Its just part of Dr Who surely.
I would place a distinction between something that is unbelievable and something that is incoherent. Like, I have no problem with the moon being an egg, that's fine.
Doctor Who has always been silly, yeah, but there's also, as Nebuchad said, coherency. Look at the chatter between the Daleks and the Cybermen in Doomsday--that was silly, but it was also clever and funny and made sense for the characters.
Can I just say that I am very thankful to this thread. I think it's one of the only places on the internet where people can actually discuss the flaws of this show without it turning into a big mess of people shouting something along the lines of "If you don't like something about this show then you're not a true whovian!"
I love this show a lot and as such I hold it to a certain level of standard. This season has been very hit and miss with it's writing and i think this episode was the worst of the season. I have no issue with the moon being an egg. If I can accept that the Earth formed around a space spider's ship then I can sure as hell accept that. My issue is, as has been pointed out by others, the consistency and coherency.
It doesn't really even fit within the established timeline of Doctor Who. This episode is set in the year 2049. They said that people stopped looking to the stars and that all space programs had been shut down. And yet 'The Waters Of Mars' is set just 10 years later in 2059. I have a hard time believing that humanity was able to plan, launch and establish the first colony on Mars in just 10 years after having no space programs for long enough that they had to pull a shuttle out of a museum in order to stop the moon from exploding.
Eh, I think the episode was fine enough. There were some clever moments, Capaldi was good. I rarely think about how specific episodes fit into the timeline, with 50 years of show, movie, comic, and book backlog, thinking about how everything fits together is just going to end up with annoyances. Enjoy it as an episodic with occasional story arcs imo.
On October 08 2014 01:09 Requizen wrote: Eh, I think the episode was fine enough. There were some clever moments, Capaldi was good. I rarely think about how specific episodes fit into the timeline, with 50 years of show, movie, comic, and book backlog, thinking about how everything fits together is just going to end up with annoyances. Enjoy it as an episodic with occasional story arcs imo.
That's how I treat this, Star Wars, Star Trek, and superhero comics that have been around for a long time.
I've now caught up with watching the episodes with Peter Capaldi and I quite like his acting which reminds me a little of the first doctor at some points, though with added "crazy" due to the scripts. I just think the episodes are kinda... stupid. The writer seems to be on an LSD trip with increasing intensity for every episode.
the same thing happened with the matt smith doctor series I think. the first season was pretty conservative serial type doctor series and then after that they start with more ambitious and larger scale stories.
I liked the zombie on the train one, that was good, and showed that the doctor isn't as asshole. I like that 2D one, when they went 3D those things were what nightmares are made of.
This episode, involved the doctor not doing anything, and so wasn't interesting.
Yeah, the episode ended and i said to my mum "Well that was fucking boring" and she started moaning at me, so i said "What happened in this episode? Trees grew on the planet. Doctor realized they were good trees. Doctor did nothing. End of episode."
Room was suddenly pretty quiet. It was actually the most dull fucking episode in the history of (modern) Dr who. It was just there to emphasize the fact clara and her BF are teachers AND LOOK THERE ARE CHILDREN PLAYING A PART IN DR WHO GUYS, CHILDREN. DID WE MENTION THERE WERE CHILDREN? They keep ramming this teacher / children thing down our throats its getting tiresome.
Also what happened to people being freaked the fuck out by aliens / tardis and the Dr trying to keep hidden? "Hey kids, everyones welcome on the Tardis!" - Running theme is nobody gives a fuck about the tardis anymore and the Dr takes anyone he likes on it.
Oh my god I just watched the first half of the finale. I don't know whats real anymore and whats fake. I don't think I've ever nereded out that much in one 60 minute block of time. spoiler nerdy squeals in the spoilers. The three words that change everything shocked the ever loving chill out of me.
THE MASTER IS BACK!!!!!! "Don't cremate me!" Oh my god it hit me like tyler durden in fight club if you know what I mean. I don't care that the master is somehow out of the time war bubble But after a season I felt didn't respect its crazy backstory roots I'm ready to just roll with it. And oh my god they were cyber men the whole time in those water tanks.
On November 02 2014 11:16 Sermokala wrote: Oh my god I just watched the first half of the finale. I don't know whats real anymore and whats fake. I don't think I've ever nereded out that much in one 60 minute block of time. spoiler nerdy squeals in the spoilers. The three words that change everything shocked the ever loving chill out of me.
THE MASTER IS BACK!!!!!! "Don't cremate me!" Oh my god it hit me like tyler durden in fight club if you know what I mean. I don't care that the master is somehow out of the time war bubble But after a season I felt didn't respect its crazy backstory roots I'm ready to just roll with it. And oh my god they were cyber men the whole time in those water tanks.
THE MASTER THE MASTER MASTER MASTER MISSY I hoped early on it'd be the case, I feared it'd be River, but this is definitely a much better alternative. Yesss.
So, that was just not very good, I think that's fair to say. The situation was interesting and successfully brought up, but almost all of the conclusions just felt weird or didn't work at all (I will say some of them didn't work because the season didn't do a good enough job of setting up the themes, so I can't really blame the episode for that). I enjoyed the cyberman unit guy being saluted though.
Apparently there was some controversy over Dark Water based on whether the whole 'don't cremate me' was offensive. I still fail to see how anything in that episode was problematic. Could anyone explain?
On November 09 2014 23:06 Nebuchad wrote: So, that was just not very good, I think that's fair to say. The situation was interesting and successfully brought up, but almost all of the conclusions just felt weird or didn't work at all (I will say some of them didn't work because the season didn't do a good enough job of setting up the themes, so I can't really blame the episode for that). I enjoyed the cyberman unit guy being saluted though.
That was 3 episodes worth of exposition and story in 2 episodes. It was too much crammed in there. As a result for me the cybermen never actually felt particularly threatening. There was too much other stuff going on to be worried about cybermen.
A great big build up, into the doctor not doing anything at all and everything sort of fixing itself around him, without any real explanation as to how. There have been a few decent episodes, (the train one was ok, and flatline was amusing just for the tiny capaldi, but there have been so many episodes this season where they arrive, find some wierd stuff is going on, run around not accomplishing anything, then it turns out everything is ok after all, and would have played out identically if the doctor had never even arrived...
I had great hopes after the first half of this finale, we had an enemy who we knew wouldn't turn out to be harmless, in interesting plot mechanic in the potential afterlife stuff, and the master back! But all we get is a random plane ride which accomplishes nothing but allowing for a funny army one liner from the doctor, and "true love" or something randomly overpowering cyberman circuitry to magically save the day. (We've already had an episode where that happens with matt smith, although at least that one was saved by not being 80% exposition...)
I guess I just enjoy the moments where the doctor goes full tennant and suddenly saves the day, and having the solution to a problem actually be developed over the episode over the "I have no idea what i'm doing but I look concerned for 40 minutes, then stuff randomly resolves itself around me in the last 5 minutes of the episode" which capaldi seems to be written as half the time
Am I the only one who thinks that they still haven't woken up? When he actually got her her first words were "am I young?" and the episode started with the doctor just glaring at her and saying "I'm real."
I loved this episode. Clara is still annoying (and in fact, this is probably her worst appearance during Capaldi's run), but the Doctor is amazing in this one.
On November 11 2014 11:23 killerdog wrote: To be honest, I felt like the last episode was basically a highlight real of everything that was wrong with a lot of this season.
A great big build up, into the doctor not doing anything at all and everything sort of fixing itself around him, without any real explanation as to how. There have been a few decent episodes, (the train one was ok, and flatline was amusing just for the tiny capaldi, but there have been so many episodes this season where they arrive, find some wierd stuff is going on, run around not accomplishing anything, then it turns out everything is ok after all, and would have played out identically if the doctor had never even arrived...
I had great hopes after the first half of this finale, we had an enemy who we knew wouldn't turn out to be harmless, in interesting plot mechanic in the potential afterlife stuff, and the master back! But all we get is a random plane ride which accomplishes nothing but allowing for a funny army one liner from the doctor, and "true love" or something randomly overpowering cyberman circuitry to magically save the day. (We've already had an episode where that happens with matt smith, although at least that one was saved by not being 80% exposition...)
I guess I just enjoy the moments where the doctor goes full tennant and suddenly saves the day, and having the solution to a problem actually be developed over the episode over the "I have no idea what i'm doing but I look concerned for 40 minutes, then stuff randomly resolves itself around me in the last 5 minutes of the episode" which capaldi seems to be written as half the time
/rant
There has been some terrible writing, certainly. I've enjoyed bits of the series, its the first Dr Who series i have ever watched. I embraced the silliness of it, but the mysteries they are trying to solve are badly written. Often the only way for the Dr to interact with the mystery at all is to explain it, rather than neutralize it. Its JJ Abrams all over again. An exposition machine for interesting mysteries, instead of a vehicle for an all powerful time lord.
There were still a couple of great episodes though. The bank heist in particular was a good one IMO.
Also i get that they probably want to avoid helpless women in this day and age, but does the Doctor's companion have to be so bloody smart and capable??? I would prefer someone stupid and extremely immoral instead of the same old Clara.
On December 28 2014 18:30 Jockmcplop wrote: Also i get that they probably want to avoid helpless women in this day and age, but does the Doctor's companion have to be so bloody smart and capable??? I would prefer someone stupid and extremely immoral instead of the same old Clara.
It used to be that the doctor rarely even revealed himself to people, i always thought it would take an extremely strong person to even comprehend and accept what the doctor is and what he shows them. It made it plausable that the companions he chose would be extremely capable.
Nowadays he just takes kids on school trips and rescues old biddys at christmas. Utter bullshit, bring back eccleston / tennant days.
I dont think clara is TOO capable though, she was ready to lie down and die in the xmas special just because she had the illusion of happiness, she knew she was dying and didnt give a fuck. Shes out of her depth on quite a few occasions but if you travel time and space with an immortal time lord you do need a bit of a backbone lol. Also shes been with him for a quite a while now, usually when companions first join they're bumbling idiots for a while.
It was better than most of last season but I really wish they'd hire some better writers. Check out the Black Mirror xmas special, fantastic scifi and deals with time/reality manipulation in much darker ways.
As someone who started watching doctor who since season 7 thanks to a marathon on tv last week, I thought this season was great! Also, clara is awesome and don't get the hate for her! So happy the impossible girl is sticking around for another season!
Well, I mean the clara hate in general because as a new doctor who fan as of last week (had previously only seen eps here and there) I looked into more info about the series and discovered a big clara hate contingent along with moffat hate. I enjoyed the impossible girl storyline of season 7 a lot, but will admit her falling in love with danny pink out of the blue and so fast was a bit forced.
Also, loved the movie last year with all the doctors and changing gallifrey's fate and found out it was also loved/hated by fans. I may go back and watch it from season 1 since I've only seen season 7 and 8 so far, but I'm enjoying the new doctor too. He's vastly different from matt smith since he's more serious, rude and less quirky so I've often wondered how matt smith's doctor would have played it during these season 8 eps.
I don't hate Clara either, it just seems to me like they just ret-conned the big ending of the season finale. That was a big emotional moment in the show when the Doctor and Clara decided to lie to each other to ensure the other's perceived happiness and now it was proven pointless.
I usually don't like it when shows pull a stunt like, say, a time dilation field that makes everything that happens in the episode ultimately pointless (Star Trek has done this a lot) but I think the ending to the special that I would have liked was that the Doctor and Clara both wake up and can't remember any of it. The others couldn't remember so why can those two? (I guess it makes a little more sense about the Doctor remembering cause he's a time lord and all but why does she?) It would have given fans the chance to have one more adventure with Clara but not have to ret-con everything that happened in the season finale. Even better would have been take the opportunity to introduce a new companion and not have Clara at all.
"Daleks can't say mercy." EXCEPT THEY HAVE, S5E13, the Dalek shoots The Doctor, then River tells it to beg her for mercy before shooting it, and it does. I'm pretty sure they say it a couple more times too but I'll be fucked if I rewatch everything to find them. Continuity, people, it's not that hard...
Really? I found the two parter pretty dull. Too much focus on Clara and Missy. They're both fairly boring imo. The Doctor's scenes were great (I loooove Capaldi) and the plot was ok (though probably didn't need to be dragged out over 2 episodes), but I honestly can't wait til Clara is gone.
On September 28 2015 23:22 Requizen wrote: Really? I found the two parter pretty dull. Too much focus on Clara and Missy. They're both fairly boring imo. The Doctor's scenes were great (I loooove Capaldi) and the plot was ok (though probably didn't need to be dragged out over 2 episodes), but I honestly can't wait til Clara is gone.
Well she announced she was leaving after this season, so that's a great thing. She basically started out as super annoying and became generic longtime companion more recently, which I found tolerable but boring.
Clara is the best companion! I'm going to miss her. Of course I only started watching this show when she was the companion, but think the impossible girl is awesome and never understood some hate against her. These first 2 eps were fantastic! First person I've seen hate missy too, since she gets pretty much 99% love online and her character is great!
On September 29 2015 01:35 Canucklehead wrote: Clara is the best companion! I'm going to miss her. Of course I only started watching this show when she was the companion, but think the impossible girl is awesome and never understood some hate against her. These first 2 eps were fantastic! First person I've seen hate missy too, since she gets pretty much 99% love online and her character is great!
Go back and watch the Eleventh Hour and pretty much all of season 6.
Or just go watch Season 2.
Honestly, my rankings for the new series ignoring the one offs: + Show Spoiler +
1: The Ponds 2: Rose Tyler 3: Captain Jack Harkness (it was twice) 4: Donna Noble 5: Martha Jones (short lived) 6: Clara Oswald 7: Micky (I don't think he really counts, but he beat Clara in the annoying department)
What you'll end up seeing if you watch everything that came before is that Clara is basically a distillation of every boring moment that every other companion has at her BEST. And I do want to make it clear: Jenna Coleman is a great actor, but the writers are giving her shit to work with and she can only do so much.
I may go back to watch other seasons eventually, but I just loved the impossible girl storyline and when the ep revealed why she was called the impossible girl, it gave me mad feels! I started watching the show like a couple of years ago when the entire series was on marathon for like a week, but only picked it up about the time clara was introduced. I had seen some eps prior here and there only before, but after watching that full season I was hooked and watched last season live each week.
Coming in part way is hard to figure out all the lore and stuff since there's so much, but I still like the show a lot. However, it's confusing sometimes with all the time travel stuff and consequences, but then that's inherit with all time shows. Like I'm confused, in the original timeline did he not save davros as a kid and he somehow saved himself only to grow up bitter creating the daleks? However, then did he save him this time to teach him mercy, but he still ended up creating the daleks anyways only with the concept of mercy now and if so wouldn't that have changed how they acted during the war with the timelords? Why doesn't he just kill davros to prevent him from creating the daleks in the first place to prevent the war with the timelords? Is it his moral code not to kill a kid, even though the daleks will end up killing billions?
On September 29 2015 01:35 Canucklehead wrote: Clara is the best companion! I'm going to miss her. Of course I only started watching this show when she was the companion, but think the impossible girl is awesome and never understood some hate against her. These first 2 eps were fantastic! First person I've seen hate missy too, since she gets pretty much 99% love online and her character is great!
Go back and watch the Eleventh Hour and pretty much all of season 6.
Or just go watch Season 2.
Honestly, my rankings for the new series ignoring the one offs: + Show Spoiler +
1: The Ponds 2: Rose Tyler 3: Captain Jack Harkness (it was twice) 4: Donna Noble 5: Martha Jones (short lived) 6: Clara Oswald 7: Micky (I don't think he really counts, but he beat Clara in the annoying department)
What you'll end up seeing if you watch everything that came before is that Clara is basically a distillation of every boring moment that every other companion has at her BEST. And I do want to make it clear: Jenna Coleman is a great actor, but the writers are giving her shit to work with and she can only do so much.
I personally am not a Rose Tyler fan though so I would drop her down last. Really wished Jone had more time though so hard to place her. I would just put her 2nd to last simply because she never really did much.
Regarding Clara, she showed great potential at the start but I think last season the love story that was developed by her got dragged on a bit too long in the stories. We basically got no development of the new doctor. He didnt get much memorable moments and that what really disappointed me last season.
Martha Jones had a very short companion stint, but she came back several times as a supporting character and did fantastically. I loved Rose and her bumbling mom, and she set the standard for how companions act. She also kicked the Doctor's ass into doing things more often than anyone this side of Amy Pond.
On September 29 2015 05:34 Nebuchad wrote: Well Eleventh Hour was probably in the top 5 of TV show episodes ever, so it's not really a fair comparison for the companion.
Top 5 New Who episodes definitely...top 5 of all time, not so sure. Sitting comfortably at #1 on that list for me is the West Wing episode "Two Cathedrals" and Eleventh Hour doesn't come close to that.
Probably my top 5 New Who episodes in loose order:
David tenent at the end is weeping inside but keeps it bottled in because only he knows that the girl he saved died hopeing for him to come to her. Not to mention the whole reveal at the end was so well done, unexpected, and just felt like it wasn't even asked for.
2 cathedrals was just game changing though no other show could just flip the script and twist in a complete different direction like that.
David tenent at the end is weeping inside but keeps it bottled in because only he knows that the girl he saved died hopeing for him to come to her. Not to mention the whole reveal at the end was so well done, unexpected, and just felt like it wasn't even asked for.
2 cathedrals was just game changing though no other show could just flip the script and twist in a complete different direction like that.
So this season I was getting kind of frustrated. I really like Capaldi. I really do. But the way they write him makes him seem like he's not really The Doctor. I get that he's supposed to be different from the last few Doctors and his own thing, but the "cranky old man who doesn't give a shit until the last minute" thing really didn't feel "Doctor-like" to me.
But this episode, with that big speech at the end? That was The Doctor. Still tired of Clara, but Capaldi is 100% in my book now.
This season is really starting to pick up now. I really like the opening christmas episode and I think it was episode 0 of season 9 and this episode so far. I hope the momentum continues
I may be a bit jaded after this time, but I'm glad that Clara's story is finally over. It went out well and I'm glad she got to have her adventure one last time, but I'm happy to see who comes next and what they bring to the show.
But man, has Capaldi been fantastic in this season or what? His Zygon Inversion speech still gives me chills.
someone in the writer's room really really loved Clara. She's may not have died quite as many times as Rory but what's the point of even making a super duper unavoidable death machine if you can avoid it, become immortal, and get your own Tardis and companion? All this after jumping into the Doctor's timeline and being deleted from existence, natch.
I give like a 20% chance she pops up again multiple times in the next season.
On December 14 2015 14:55 Requizen wrote: I may be a bit jaded after this time, but I'm glad that Clara's story is finally over. It went out well and I'm glad she got to have her adventure one last time, but I'm happy to see who comes next and what they bring to the show.
But man, has Capaldi been fantastic in this season or what? His Zygon Inversion speech still gives me chills.
The zygon episode and the Heaven Bent episode was godly amazingly good. This season is what defined Capaldi. I am just glad he finally got a season that really helped him shine because last season the whole clara and her boyfriend got dragged on forever and we got no development from Capaldi.
This season of doctor who was pretty damn good. Started off with amazing christmas inception and ended off on great christmas final. My gawd dddd it was perfect.
I think this season was great and ended so strong with the death of clara, the final moment of him and river song and the new screw driver all showed that the doctor has tied up all loose ends to his past incarnation. From here on out we are going to see nothing but new things.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Lya2b.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kWqzYjHEMGs/TgqIxcNShjI/AAAAAAAAAA8/km76c_XruJo/s512/DrWhoSpace.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8fl4x.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HKRAc.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TOXfO.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OQ4Ijyf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KoBUg9k.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5o78XIJ.jpg)
