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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 881

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12137 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-04 05:03:26
June 04 2014 05:03 GMT
#17601
On June 04 2014 13:06 Hier wrote:
Hi, I have a question for anyone that has played both Dota 2 and LoL.

I've played plenty of Dota and HoN (and more recently Dota 2), but not LoL. I was wondering if someone may briefly explain why people refer to LoL as a "casual", or "easy", game? I was under the impression that they were fairly similar. What specific attributes of Dota 2 make it the more "hardcore" game? Or are these descriptors completely fallacious?


What people tend to refer to are things like stacking spawns, denying, different juke mechanic and utterly different mindsets when it comes to turn rates and spammability of spells.

Both can be hard games, they are after all PvP.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
June 04 2014 07:26 GMT
#17602
On June 04 2014 13:06 Hier wrote:
Hi, I have a question for anyone that has played both Dota 2 and LoL.

I've played plenty of Dota and HoN (and more recently Dota 2), but not LoL. I was wondering if someone may briefly explain why people refer to LoL as a "casual", or "easy", game? I was under the impression that they were fairly similar. What specific attributes of Dota 2 make it the more "hardcore" game? Or are these descriptors completely fallacious?

LoL is a lot more forgiving than Dota. From things like inability to control more than one unit, no turn rate, no denying, low stun durations, flash ability (like a free 5min cd force staff if you get caught), far fewer active items, much less difficult/complicated jungle, etc. One of the lead designers of LoL mentioned "burden of knowledge" as something they wanted to avoid, so they end up with a more "casual" game.
:)
FrozenProbe
Profile Joined March 2012
Italy276 Posts
June 04 2014 08:08 GMT
#17603
there is little to no variation to the compositions, always a spellcaster mid, tank top, a jungler, support and adc bot. So it's easier to new players do adapt to that, but at the same time is pretty boring and riot nerf everything that donesn't fit into that. Lane control is way easier as you don't have to deny and with the runes your hero will deal a lot of damage from the start, so last hit is fairly easy.
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-04 08:34:05
June 04 2014 08:31 GMT
#17604
do you have to use pipe before being hit by lets say venomancer ult or aa ult or does it still block the dot damage if you turn it on after being hit? also why does the ingame loadingscreen tooltip say that pipe helps against aoe magical damage, doesn't pipe block any 400 magical damage including targeted spells?
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
June 04 2014 08:36 GMT
#17605
It blocks it after being hit. And yes pipe block any 400 magical damage, but it's typically bought and used against AOE because cloak/hood generally better if you need to deal with single-target.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
June 04 2014 08:47 GMT
#17606
On June 04 2014 13:06 Hier wrote:
Hi, I have a question for anyone that has played both Dota 2 and LoL.

I've played plenty of Dota and HoN (and more recently Dota 2), but not LoL. I was wondering if someone may briefly explain why people refer to LoL as a "casual", or "easy", game? I was under the impression that they were fairly similar. What specific attributes of Dota 2 make it the more "hardcore" game? Or are these descriptors completely fallacious?

LoL is a very good game, give it a try. Bad things to me were the stale meta, there are only 5 roles, spells are also weaker, for exemple tide ulti is closer to treant ulti. Bright side is there are tons of spammable skillshots, very fun mechanics. And on the very bad side, you have to unlock all heroes and all runes with one million games or money. I would say all heroes have kinda the same linear curve in power, you won't have equivalents to level 1 treant or 6 slotted dusa.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-04 08:49:30
June 04 2014 08:48 GMT
#17607
On June 04 2014 17:36 Unleashing wrote:
It blocks it after being hit. And yes pipe block any 400 magical damage, but it's typically bought and used against AOE because cloak/hood generally better if you need to deal with single-target.


thanks, i know that it is best against aoe, but the phrasing made me doubt myself. They could have used something like blocks 400 magical damage, best against aoe; instead of blocks 400 magical aoe damage.
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
June 04 2014 10:26 GMT
#17608
If the opposing team has a stronger teamfight, what alternatives are there for winning the game, beyond picking off individuals and split-pushing? Split pushing seems relatively weak if the other team can simply roll through the lane you're not pushing and kill you before you get far, or if they can mop up your now isolated team members.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
June 04 2014 10:59 GMT
#17609
On June 04 2014 17:31 idonthinksobro wrote:
do you have to use pipe before being hit by lets say venomancer ult or aa ult or does it still block the dot damage if you turn it on after being hit? also why does the ingame loadingscreen tooltip say that pipe helps against aoe magical damage, doesn't pipe block any 400 magical damage including targeted spells?

Yes that loading screen tip is awfully worded.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Verrou
Profile Joined July 2013
France193 Posts
June 04 2014 13:42 GMT
#17610
On June 04 2014 06:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
All items are muted on couriers so courier can't. Bear should be able to, but the value of a blinking bear seems extremely minimal considering it's already high MS and ability to return to the hero at will (with similar damage-cooldown rules to blink anyway).


Thank you!

Yeah it was mostly curiosity. And also imagining a pimpest play where a lone druid using blink to secure himself alive would pass it to his bear to body-block a fleeing enemy (something that will probably never happen but would look so cool).
Black^ / n0tail / Misery / Lanm - Nyx/Windrunner/Slardar
tauon
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Australia1278 Posts
June 04 2014 14:08 GMT
#17611
On June 04 2014 07:30 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
hi stuck with low level scrubs @ 5.5k mmr
I try to get in the zone, listen to a good radio station, stretching, warming up, queue up a game, greet my
allies, call mid, proceed to play reasonably well (at least relatively speaking), my shit allies do questionable shit, i lose a bit of focus, they do more retarded shit, and eventually im just so mad my brain doesnt even work anymore.

you guys have any advice how to remain calm and not lose focus? truth be told, i dont even give a shit about losing, it's just pubs, what frustrates me is when i lose focus and dont play well. any advice is appreciated. ty in advance

the secret to dota is that every mmr is elo hell
Road to 6sange
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
June 04 2014 14:51 GMT
#17612
On June 04 2014 09:47 Noya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2014 06:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
All items are muted on couriers so courier can't. Bear should be able to, but the value of a blinking bear seems extremely minimal considering it's already high MS and ability to return to the hero at will (with similar damage-cooldown rules to blink anyway).


Unless you go full Dota 2 Bugs and buy courier through the Spirit Bear, enjoy your midas shivas couriers:



but it was fixed, sadly

Ahh, what happened to the days of the flying courier dagon assassination squad
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
June 04 2014 14:56 GMT
#17613
On June 04 2014 19:26 Birdie wrote:
If the opposing team has a stronger teamfight, what alternatives are there for winning the game, beyond picking off individuals and split-pushing? Split pushing seems relatively weak if the other team can simply roll through the lane you're not pushing and kill you before you get far, or if they can mop up your now isolated team members.

this question is hard to answer in general because teamfight comps can have different timings

so the general answer is hit them where and when their comp is weak
posting on liquid sites in current year
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
June 04 2014 15:06 GMT
#17614
I mean if they 5-man then they are splitting 1 lane worth of gold/XP 5 ways whereas you can be in both other lanes, maybe a jungle or 2, and still spamming out their lane for gold as well (depending on heroes obivously). Sure they are likely to get up on towers and consequentially gold and map control, but you should be able to trade towers when they group to push and don't forget once they split up to respond to you they are giving up their biggest strength. One thing I can't emphasize enough is if they are sticking together and busting down towers, you NEED ward vision to a) track their big group of dudes and b) make up for all those towers that aren't giving you vision/map control anymore.

If you can't stall their push, can't fight them, and can't take their towers very fast to trade then your draft sucks dick and/or you are too far behind, GG go next or else hope they throw going high ground. (note that certain heroes can actually give up a rax and not be too concerned. Mostly heroes like spectre, PL, naga who once farmed fundamentally alter how the game works).
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Gendo
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom216 Posts
June 04 2014 20:20 GMT
#17615
Hi, when playing Lina semi carry i usually get a perseverance into blood stone as core item (depending on farm and composition), since i like being aggressive i like the bunch of stats on both items, is there anything better i could get instead?

I already integrate other items like Eul's, Aga and blade mail depending on situation.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
June 04 2014 20:42 GMT
#17616
Bloodstone is terrible.

Item choice depends on what you are attempting to scale. If you want to abuse ur passive and hit them with autos, then you want something like orchid + crit for right click deeps. If you want to abuse ur low-cd nukes then you want something like sheep/aghs/veil.

Note how both builds do feature a mana solution item (Orchid or Hex). Euls is a reasonable hex substitute with survivability upside as well. If you find yourself dying (despite having huuuuge range) you can opt for blink, ghost sceptre or BKB depending on what is killing you and whether you need to be able to attack or not.

None of these builds are particularly great simply because lina's right clicks never reach a truly scary stage and her spells, while high in terms of damage, can't really compare to say a leshrac who can be played much more effectively in a "spell damage carry" role. However its fun.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
June 04 2014 20:43 GMT
#17617
On June 05 2014 05:20 Gendo wrote:
Hi, when playing Lina semi carry i usually get a perseverance into blood stone as core item (depending on farm and composition), since i like being aggressive i like the bunch of stats on both items, is there anything better i could get instead?

I already integrate other items like Eul's, Aga and blade mail depending on situation.

linkens/bkb might help you more than bloodstone in many cases, especially if the enemy team starts deciding you're a focus priority
posting on liquid sites in current year
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
June 04 2014 20:59 GMT
#17618
I've only just started playing DOTA2 and am at 2.5k MMR on SEA server. This is presumably very bad; what are the most likely things I need to work on to improve my game and MMR? If you need replays, here's my latest game ID: 699645109 (is this how to share replays on DOTA2?) I'm Hank Bot.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
mRpolite
Profile Joined March 2012
189 Posts
June 04 2014 21:32 GMT
#17619
what is the damage threshold for killing a ranged creep after the tower 2 shots it? (1st tier tower)
how about the siege unit?
the melee creep is ezpz, the tower 5 shots it to near death
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-04 21:41:54
June 04 2014 21:36 GMT
#17620
On June 05 2014 06:32 mRpolite wrote:
what is the damage threshold for killing a ranged creep after the tower 2 shots it? (1st tier tower)
how about the siege unit?
the melee creep is ezpz, the tower 5 shots it to near death

towers have a damage range, melee creeps are actually substantially harder since getting hit 5 times increases the variance on how much HP they have left.

Anyway its simple to run the math yourself. 300 hp 0 armor 2hp/s regen. Tower does 100-120 damage. Creeps can have between 100 and 60 HP. If you are under 60 damage TOP END its always 2 hits, if you are between 60 top end and 100 bottom end then there are no guarantees, and if you are above 100 bottom end then its always 1 hit.

Many good players with ~60 damage will drop a quelling blade or other damage item to ensure that they 2-hit the creep.

E: oh yeah regen add like 5 to the HP totals for regen I suppose. It's pretty negligible.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
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