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On May 30 2014 16:18 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 14:40 Yurie wrote:On May 30 2014 14:38 Scrandom wrote:
Does Vlads apply to TA because Psi makes her attack ranged? TA isn't melee even on level 1. Though her range is about the same as a melee hero. Similar to this, how do items like qb/stout work on Troll? Is it like wc3 dota where they become melee form if you pick them up in melee stance, and stay that way even if you change to ranged stance? (I think that's how it works, because the melee and ranged versions of the items were coded to be separate items)
In dota 2 the stats change based on what form you're currently using.
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A casual cloak is probably most cost effective in that case. At most I would go up to the hood.
Multiple pipes on a team are generally not worthwhile. The pipe active has a per unit cooldown, stopping you from getting the barrier buff more than once every 50s.
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can someone explain to me the reasoning behind support skeleton king? ie what does he offer that another support doesn't OR is the idea that your lineup has extra physical dps late game
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What am I supposed to do as a support if I'm paired with a melee carry like FV and we're up against 2 ranged heroes (eg: VS and PotM). My carry can't really farm and I can't really zone them out. Should I just go pull?
Also, how do I decide when to roam? It feels really underwhelming to go gank middle at lvl 1-2 without boots and low level spells.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On May 30 2014 18:24 Tuco wrote:
can someone explain to me the reasoning behind support skeleton king? ie what does he offer that another support doesn't OR is the idea that your lineup has extra physical dps late game
He has one of the best stuns in the game, is not inherently squishy, his aura is really good, and can transition into a decent dps dealer given one or two of the appropriate items.
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On May 30 2014 18:24 Tuco wrote:
can someone explain to me the reasoning behind support skeleton king? ie what does he offer that another support doesn't OR is the idea that your lineup has extra physical dps late game
I dont like wraithkingsupport but he does grant easier and better setups for other AOE ultimates, lifesteal, good stun and the ability to secure a little solo farm/xp is the main difference with other supports. Sandking, disruptor, SF, Darkseer ultimates (etcetc) all benefit from the incarnationslow.
I.e. Cloud9 Wraithking+blademail blinks into the enemy team as initiation and focusses a squishy support. Now the enemy has a choice, let the support die, kill wraithking but suffer the nasty ultimates from other hero's or use a bkb charge when he reincarnates. All granted options seem horrible for the enemy team in theorycraft.
In the pubtrench it does not feel that great, you need alot of good coordination. Easiest combo's that i have seen work in the pubtrench are Sandking+wraithking+Shadowfiend, where wraithking could also function as a core. The WK lifesteal and SF rightclickdamage are good friends too, besides the fact there ultimates line up nicely.
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On May 30 2014 18:24 Tuco wrote:
can someone explain to me the reasoning behind support skeleton king? ie what does he offer that another support doesn't OR is the idea that your lineup has extra physical dps late game
Support Leoric has benefits and drawbacks. On the upside, he is tanky which means that you have to at least commit a little to bring him down in a teamfight. Once he dies in a teamfight he slows everyone down and comes back to close out the fight. He has a target stun and has lifesteal for the carry lategame, the lifesteal aura also allows him to pick up some farm in the jungle in the midgame.
On the downside, he is melee and adds little more than one stun in a fight during the earlygame. He is a greedy support - he needs levels and a little bit of farm when he can't really do anything but his one stun in a fight and lacks harass on lane.
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On May 30 2014 19:29 nonsequitur wrote:
What am I supposed to do as a support if I'm paired with a melee carry like FV and we're up against 2 ranged heroes (eg: VS and PotM). My carry can't really farm and I can't really zone them out. Should I just go pull?
Also, how do I decide when to roam? It feels really underwhelming to go gank middle at lvl 1-2 without boots and low level spells.
Try to stack and pull (and pull through) to keep the wave close to, under or even behind your tower. If a Void gets PTs and a PMS he can jungle until the lane is safe. After that, stall the game as much as possible and wait for Void to hit maximum power.
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so how do you have enough mana with mid/late game with undying? The thing is even with mana boots, soulring you don't have enough mana to sustain a single fight that is longer than 30 seconds.
He also isn't the fastest farmer so getting a bloodstone seems like a longshot unless you get a good start. I think the hero has a lot of potential but his mana costs makes me not wanna play him.
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On May 31 2014 02:23 idonthinksobro wrote:
so how do you have enough mana with mid/late game with undying? The thing is even with mana boots, soulring you don't have enough mana to sustain a single fight that is longer than 30 seconds.
He also isn't the fastest farmer so getting a bloodstone seems like a longshot unless you get a good start. I think the hero has a lot of potential but his mana costs makes me not wanna play him.
I'm curious how you are running out of mana mid/late game undying. Levels + arcanes usually will carry this hero in lategame for mana costs. I guess get a shivas otherwise.
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United States12248 Posts
On May 31 2014 02:23 idonthinksobro wrote:
so how do you have enough mana with mid/late game with undying? The thing is even with mana boots, soulring you don't have enough mana to sustain a single fight that is longer than 30 seconds.
He also isn't the fastest farmer so getting a bloodstone seems like a longshot unless you get a good start. I think the hero has a lot of potential but his mana costs makes me not wanna play him.
Most fights are over within 30 seconds anyway. You're right that in the mid to late game his mana costs are quite high with short cooldowns, but if you're able to land some multihero decays and clutch soul rip heals and you've already dropped your tombstone and gone into ult form to tank and bully the enemy team, you've already done everything you can do. I usually get mana boots, pipe, and sometimes blademail then build toward Shiva's (having either the mystic staff or the void stone alone will go a long way toward your mana issues).
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On May 31 2014 02:47 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2014 02:23 idonthinksobro wrote:
so how do you have enough mana with mid/late game with undying? The thing is even with mana boots, soulring you don't have enough mana to sustain a single fight that is longer than 30 seconds.
He also isn't the fastest farmer so getting a bloodstone seems like a longshot unless you get a good start. I think the hero has a lot of potential but his mana costs makes me not wanna play him. I'm curious how you are running out of mana mid/late game undying. Levels + arcanes usually will carry this hero in lategame for mana costs. I guess get a shivas otherwise.
around lvl 16 you have like 1000 mana and your full combo costs ~600 mana - mek or pipe is another 150/100. Soulrip is on a 6sec cooldown 125 mana and decay on 4 sec for 130.
well his mana costs wouldn't be such a big problem if the hero could farm better for example decay doing more damage to creeps or something. He just feels so underwhelming to a lot of other heros.
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When you hit level 25, Do you still get XP from creeps and jungle camps or does it all go to nearby heroes that are under level 25?
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On May 31 2014 02:55 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2014 02:47 Comeh wrote:On May 31 2014 02:23 idonthinksobro wrote:
so how do you have enough mana with mid/late game with undying? The thing is even with mana boots, soulring you don't have enough mana to sustain a single fight that is longer than 30 seconds.
He also isn't the fastest farmer so getting a bloodstone seems like a longshot unless you get a good start. I think the hero has a lot of potential but his mana costs makes me not wanna play him. I'm curious how you are running out of mana mid/late game undying. Levels + arcanes usually will carry this hero in lategame for mana costs. I guess get a shivas otherwise. around lvl 16 you have like 1000 mana and your full combo costs ~600 mana - mek or pipe is another 150/100. Soulrip is on a 6sec cooldown 125 mana and decay on 4 sec for 130. well his mana costs wouldn't be such a big problem if the hero could farm better for example decay doing more damage to creeps or something. He just feels so underwhelming to a lot of other heros.
Well, at lvl 16 hes already fallen off his most useful state by a fair margin. Hes an early game kind of skirmish/team fight master. I played him a lot and the time when he feels most powerful is like the lvl 4-8 period when you only have arcane pretty much. You should try to make something happen with him at that time.
As for lategame mana problem. Dont build both mek and pipe. Either just mek and ignore pipe or have someone else build either of them and you build the other. But tbh I think youre overestimating his mana problems a bit. I know mek and pipe can lead to a strain on your mana but its not like its impossible to play with. You empty your mana fast with mek+pipe, but fights are often over by the time you do anyway. Also remember a wand can be great for more mana during a fight.
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Is there any fight that lasts alot longer then 30 seconds... i dont think so bro
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Have you ever played dota? Longer engagements because of chasing, counterinitiation or teamfights after a pickoff happen in almost every game.
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undying's base int and int growth is so high usually wand is enough
if u don't have to get mek u don't even really need arcanes
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There arent many heros that can keep spamming all there spells for longer then 30 seconds during the midgame.
Whats most important is the manapool at lvl 5/6 for the combo to create easy doublekills (even solo) and snowball from there. If you have the mana, you will get the early kill almost everytime in the trench
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manaboots is very good on undying, how else do you afford to spam decay.
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EPT
