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On May 28 2014 16:08 govie wrote:
Anyone ever tried a phatostress build (enchantress+atos+phaseboots no midas)?
- The range on enchantress is 550 without septer and 740 with a septer+some stats for 4200 gold.
- An atos offers huge 1200 initiationrange at 10 second cooldown, 300 manapool, 0.8 manaregen.sec, 20 more attackdamage and 325 HP. I think that for 3100 gold a phatostress could offer more at an earlier timing then with a standard PT+midas+septer enchantress build. I could ofcourse buy the septer during the midgame after I have accuired the core 3 items.
- The phaseboots active synergises well with the atos active. I like to prioritize movementspeed over attackspeed when a build focusses more on an earlier timing.
Your damage comes from impetus; not building for raw right click damage. The range increase alone gives more damage than the int staves provide and it is also pure damage so it is significantly better. The attack speed from treads is important because you aren't going to be able to itemize for it very easily in your other items.
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On May 28 2014 16:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 16:08 govie wrote:
Anyone ever tried a phatostress build (enchantress+atos+phaseboots no midas)?
- The range on enchantress is 550 without septer and 740 with a septer+some stats for 4200 gold.
- An atos offers huge 1200 initiationrange at 10 second cooldown, 300 manapool, 0.8 manaregen.sec, 20 more attackdamage and 325 HP. I think that for 3100 gold a phatostress could offer more at an earlier timing then with a standard PT+midas+septer enchantress build. I could ofcourse buy the septer during the midgame after I have accuired the core 3 items.
- The phaseboots active synergises well with the atos active. I like to prioritize movementspeed over attackspeed when a build focusses more on an earlier timing.
Your damage comes from impetus; not building for raw right click damage. The range increase alone gives more damage than the int staves provide and it is also pure damage so it is significantly better. The attack speed from treads is important because you aren't going to be able to itemize for it very easily in your other items.
I didnt ask why everyone goes standard
Because pure damage doesnt pierce through magic immunity, the influence of a septer on the outcome of a teamfight seems debateable. Mostly usefull for cleaning up the teamfight leftovers with the larger range, but less altering the outcome of a teamfight. WIth the atosbuild without a midas, i would like to focus more on pickoffs and less on teamfights in the first half of the game.
E : small edit
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On May 28 2014 16:38 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 16:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On May 28 2014 16:08 govie wrote:
Anyone ever tried a phatostress build (enchantress+atos+phaseboots no midas)?
- The range on enchantress is 550 without septer and 740 with a septer+some stats for 4200 gold.
- An atos offers huge 1200 initiationrange at 10 second cooldown, 300 manapool, 0.8 manaregen.sec, 20 more attackdamage and 325 HP. I think that for 3100 gold a phatostress could offer more at an earlier timing then with a standard PT+midas+septer enchantress build. I could ofcourse buy the septer during the midgame after I have accuired the core 3 items.
- The phaseboots active synergises well with the atos active. I like to prioritize movementspeed over attackspeed when a build focusses more on an earlier timing.
Your damage comes from impetus; not building for raw right click damage. The range increase alone gives more damage than the int staves provide and it is also pure damage so it is significantly better. The attack speed from treads is important because you aren't going to be able to itemize for it very easily in your other items. I didnt ask why everyone goes standard My thoughts atm are that Impetus' damage output doesnt scale well when you buy a septer, a septer only affects the range of your attacks. Because pure damage doesnt pierce through magic immunity, the influence of a septer on the outcome of a teamfight seems debateable. Mostly usefull for cleaning up the teamfight leftovers with the larger range, but less altering the outcome of a teamfight. WIth the atosbuild without a midas, i would like to focus more on pickoffs and less on teamfights in the first half of the game.
Even with only one point in Impetus you're getting 28.5 damage from the range. The idea that impetus damage doesn't scale off the range increase from scepter is just wrong.
Atos is useless versus magic immunity as well so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up.
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On May 28 2014 16:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 16:38 govie wrote:On May 28 2014 16:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On May 28 2014 16:08 govie wrote:
Anyone ever tried a phatostress build (enchantress+atos+phaseboots no midas)?
- The range on enchantress is 550 without septer and 740 with a septer+some stats for 4200 gold.
- An atos offers huge 1200 initiationrange at 10 second cooldown, 300 manapool, 0.8 manaregen.sec, 20 more attackdamage and 325 HP. I think that for 3100 gold a phatostress could offer more at an earlier timing then with a standard PT+midas+septer enchantress build. I could ofcourse buy the septer during the midgame after I have accuired the core 3 items.
- The phaseboots active synergises well with the atos active. I like to prioritize movementspeed over attackspeed when a build focusses more on an earlier timing.
Your damage comes from impetus; not building for raw right click damage. The range increase alone gives more damage than the int staves provide and it is also pure damage so it is significantly better. The attack speed from treads is important because you aren't going to be able to itemize for it very easily in your other items. I didnt ask why everyone goes standard My thoughts atm are that Impetus' damage output doesnt scale well when you buy a septer, a septer only affects the range of your attacks. Because pure damage doesnt pierce through magic immunity, the influence of a septer on the outcome of a teamfight seems debateable. Mostly usefull for cleaning up the teamfight leftovers with the larger range, but less altering the outcome of a teamfight. WIth the atosbuild without a midas, i would like to focus more on pickoffs and less on teamfights in the first half of the game. Even with only one point in Impetus you're getting 28.5 damage from the range. The idea that impetus damage doesn't scale off the range increase from scepter is just wrong. Atos is useless versus magic immunity as well so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up.
1. Impetus Ability can be targeted on magic immune units in a teamfight, but will not damage them. I dont see whats wrong with this assumption.
2. I dont buy the atos for mainly teamfightusages but pickoffs and i believe not every enemyhero will buy a bkb as first item. But if someone pops a bkb charge that early just to flee, i believe it is a good atos-trade allready.
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On May 28 2014 17:05 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 16:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On May 28 2014 16:38 govie wrote:On May 28 2014 16:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On May 28 2014 16:08 govie wrote:
Anyone ever tried a phatostress build (enchantress+atos+phaseboots no midas)?
- The range on enchantress is 550 without septer and 740 with a septer+some stats for 4200 gold.
- An atos offers huge 1200 initiationrange at 10 second cooldown, 300 manapool, 0.8 manaregen.sec, 20 more attackdamage and 325 HP. I think that for 3100 gold a phatostress could offer more at an earlier timing then with a standard PT+midas+septer enchantress build. I could ofcourse buy the septer during the midgame after I have accuired the core 3 items.
- The phaseboots active synergises well with the atos active. I like to prioritize movementspeed over attackspeed when a build focusses more on an earlier timing.
Your damage comes from impetus; not building for raw right click damage. The range increase alone gives more damage than the int staves provide and it is also pure damage so it is significantly better. The attack speed from treads is important because you aren't going to be able to itemize for it very easily in your other items. I didnt ask why everyone goes standard My thoughts atm are that Impetus' damage output doesnt scale well when you buy a septer, a septer only affects the range of your attacks. Because pure damage doesnt pierce through magic immunity, the influence of a septer on the outcome of a teamfight seems debateable. Mostly usefull for cleaning up the teamfight leftovers with the larger range, but less altering the outcome of a teamfight. WIth the atosbuild without a midas, i would like to focus more on pickoffs and less on teamfights in the first half of the game. Even with only one point in Impetus you're getting 28.5 damage from the range. The idea that impetus damage doesn't scale off the range increase from scepter is just wrong. Atos is useless versus magic immunity as well so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up. 1. Impetus Ability can be targeted on magic immune units in a teamfight, but will not damage them. I dont see whats wrong with this assumption. 2. I dont buy the atos for mainly teamfightusages but pickoffs and i believe not every enemyhero will buy a bkb as first item. But if someone pops a bkb charge that early just to flee, i believe it is a good atos-trade allready.
Assuming you're going to attack the target you don't do damage to is a dumb assumption. With scepter you're more likely to be in range of someone else you can attack as well.
Scepter is bad because they have a BKB, but atos is good because they don't have a BKB? Your theorycraft is pointless.
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On May 28 2014 17:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 17:05 govie wrote:On May 28 2014 16:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On May 28 2014 16:38 govie wrote:On May 28 2014 16:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On May 28 2014 16:08 govie wrote:
Anyone ever tried a phatostress build (enchantress+atos+phaseboots no midas)?
- The range on enchantress is 550 without septer and 740 with a septer+some stats for 4200 gold.
- An atos offers huge 1200 initiationrange at 10 second cooldown, 300 manapool, 0.8 manaregen.sec, 20 more attackdamage and 325 HP. I think that for 3100 gold a phatostress could offer more at an earlier timing then with a standard PT+midas+septer enchantress build. I could ofcourse buy the septer during the midgame after I have accuired the core 3 items.
- The phaseboots active synergises well with the atos active. I like to prioritize movementspeed over attackspeed when a build focusses more on an earlier timing.
Your damage comes from impetus; not building for raw right click damage. The range increase alone gives more damage than the int staves provide and it is also pure damage so it is significantly better. The attack speed from treads is important because you aren't going to be able to itemize for it very easily in your other items. I didnt ask why everyone goes standard My thoughts atm are that Impetus' damage output doesnt scale well when you buy a septer, a septer only affects the range of your attacks. Because pure damage doesnt pierce through magic immunity, the influence of a septer on the outcome of a teamfight seems debateable. Mostly usefull for cleaning up the teamfight leftovers with the larger range, but less altering the outcome of a teamfight. WIth the atosbuild without a midas, i would like to focus more on pickoffs and less on teamfights in the first half of the game. Even with only one point in Impetus you're getting 28.5 damage from the range. The idea that impetus damage doesn't scale off the range increase from scepter is just wrong. Atos is useless versus magic immunity as well so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up. 1. Impetus Ability can be targeted on magic immune units in a teamfight, but will not damage them. I dont see whats wrong with this assumption. 2. I dont buy the atos for mainly teamfightusages but pickoffs and i believe not every enemyhero will buy a bkb as first item. But if someone pops a bkb charge that early just to flee, i believe it is a good atos-trade allready. Assuming you're going to attack the target you don't do damage to is a dumb assumption. With scepter you're more likely to be in range of someone else you can attack as well. Scepter is bad because they have a BKB, but atos is good because they don't have a BKB? Your theorycraft is pointless.
Whatever dude
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I find it's a good idea, worth experimenting, I'll keep it in mind. It can happen that your team needs an extra slow instead of extra damage, specially in pubs.
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Is it ever a good idea to get a midas on a support? Or should I just get a faster blink/mek if i find myself with early gold from kills?
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If you either dont intent to buy any support item other than wards and courier, and your hero does not benefit that much from positioning items, or if you intend to do some kind of cheese strat like necro 3 then IMO midas is very good on supports, especially if you are level dependant, even if you get it late. This is especially true if you're a hero with crap farming speed and most of your gold income would come from hero kills and the midas, AA and warlock are perfect examples. I like the build on both heroes to go straight aghs/refresher after brown boots.
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I need help for support-rotation
When do you smoke to gank the enemy's mid? Do you look at the wave before and time it so it is pushed in your favor? Or do people just go randomly?
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yes
edit: nighttime helps a lot too, but sometimes 4 minutes is too late
check hp/mp/bottle/wand before too
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On May 28 2014 18:20 llIH wrote:
I need help for support-rotation
When do you smoke to gank the enemy's mid? Do you look at the wave before and time it so it is pushed in your favor? Or do people just go randomly?
looking at your wave is generally a bad way to time ganks. the creep equilibrium can change instantly depending on whether or not any of the mid heroes decide to use their skills. also, sometimes you want to gank when the creeps are pushing with you, sometimes you want to gank when hes at the bottom of your ramp. if you can get your players to time when to push so that you can get a wraparound or something, then its a bonus, but i wouldnt base my decisions on ganking solely on where the creeps stand.
ganking is much more efficient when you time your ganks in between pulls. for example, you pull at x:12, double pull (maybe triple if youre radiant), and by the time you finish youll probably find that it took around a minute to finish the camps. youre not going to pull at X:42 because the camps havent respawned and youll only get a single pull off, meaning you have to wait until the next minute so that you can double pull again. leaving to gank in this downtime is the best as you really dont have anything else to do while you wait. you could try to stack a different camp or harrass the enemy offlaner, but a successful gank is still better than any of those options.
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On May 28 2014 18:20 llIH wrote:
I need help for support-rotation
When do you smoke to gank the enemy's mid? Do you look at the wave before and time it so it is pushed in your favor? Or do people just go randomly?
There is way too much going into it with the heroes mid / hero you play / mana left etc.
But some general tips or whatever:
Almost no point in smoking if you are Dire cause the path to the mid is not going to be warded most of the time.
Check the closest rune and take it if it's a good rune at 0.00 / 2min / 4min etc. If it's a good rune for ganking just take it. If your mid complains tell him to bottle crow just like every other mid ever.
Some hero combination can kill with the 0.00 rune. Like if you are rhasta and got a Brew mid vs a SF. All runes are important.
If you are 2 supports, then you need to deward the offlane's ward. Then make him afraid without showing yourself. If he thinks you are there all the time because you in most case are, then the one time you go to gank he will call it out a lot slower. Staying off the map is in general a good skill to learn.
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United States12281 Posts
What are your thoughts on boot choices for Razor? I usually get Phase for the extra help CSing and the chasedown of the active, Treads are also an obvious choice for the attack speed, but what about Tranquils? They can potentially offer even better chase than Phase, they're fast even when broken, and they're cheaper too.
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Razor lacks any particular fundamental need for HP regen as a highly-ranged carry, and autoattacks frequently enough that tranquils would be broken most of the time anyway. The armor is always welcome but not really that great and razor really can abuse the power of phase for chasing.
Treads is highly suspect imo simply because phase active is mega busted for razor and nobody actually manfights a razor so the rate you attack is often dictated more by how much faster than the enemy you are rather than how fast you can actually attack.
Travels kick ass for obvious reasons (they are multiplied by his % passive :D) but are expensive for a squishy hero that needs fast survivability items to be a presence in fights.
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phase are probably the better choice on razor if the game is not terribly hard. with phase activation and 1 lvl of passive you can run away from most ganks unless they have mega lockdown or damage.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
Lycan question: When do you not want to go for necro (go for medallion, etc)
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On May 29 2014 05:51 amazingxkcd wrote:
Lycan question: When do you not want to go for necro (go for medallion, etc)
Probably when youre being quite shut down and pushing is out of the question (because you're being pushed). It also means you get that BKB faster which might allow you to come back from a disadvantaged position. Necro wont help you defend your base.
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On May 29 2014 05:51 amazingxkcd wrote:
Lycan question: When do you not want to go for necro (go for medallion, etc)
when the other team has heroes like chen ench and arguably ember clinks and some others
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What are the most suitable support heroes for playing hard solo support?
You are supporting a carry, while you have a jungler eg. solo support.
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EPT
