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Kunkka!
So... This is a hero i like but never came around to play him enough to get really comfortable with.
What Item builds is the go to atm (in Pubs...)?
It was Phase --> Shadowblade/Drums --> Crit... But since the Shadowblade nerf this feels lackluster and imho it just makes getting a few succesfull ganks just too important.
Now, what to go for? Starting with Phase is kinda a given but then? Drums --> Crit... Or Battlefury?
Im really unsure on this hero... Everything feels kinda "good" but nothing feels like "awesome!".
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Shadow blade is still fine/good on kunkka tbh, the added damage helps a ton and gives added mobility on demand that synergizes with bonus speed from the ship.
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dont get battlefury
you have a huge cleave already. just make it hit harder
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For kunkka phase>drums>sb>crit>lategame works most of the time. good lategame items are ofc AC, abbysal, halberd, bkb. Ofc sometimes you gotta play budget builds and go early bkb/halberd
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Shadowblade is pretty core for Kunkka unless your entire team has invis or something. The bonus attack being splashed and ganking power of Shadowblade are both very solid.
Battlefury is certainly not optimal on Kunkka, but it's situationally alright since it speeds up your farming potential a lot (you'd probably only pick it up if you're playing hard #1).
Bkb is always useful, crit-rapier for yolo plays, ac if your need armour, and heart for sieging power.
In terms of play style, make sure you get early points in x for the combo and always, always throw your boat out. It's just like basketball, you miss shot you don't throw. As long as you get the boat buff, it's always worthwhile to throw it no matter the situation due to the absurdly low cooldown. When I play Kunkka I usually mid and I can't count the number of times I've gotten caught out by some smoke gank but escape with sub-50 hp because of the boat buff. It's so op I dont even know why icefrog keeps buffing it.
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Battlefury is situationally used on farming kunkkas or if you're fighting against a hero like Phantom Lancer.
It shouldn't be dismissed as a 'never get this' but it's definitely not a core item 
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i mainly buy it if i'm dominating some sidelane or really feel like I need a Roh (and the mana from preseverance actually helps).
I just have problems adjusting to the "new" Shadowblade... its sooo short  .
Well... Gonna go for SB a few times and see if i change my mind  . Thanks guys.
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Well Shadowblade was buffed by 2 seconds in the latest patch.
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On May 27 2014 15:40 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 14:47 WladimirUN wrote:
One question to Tide:
(re-discovered that hero and it feels pretty strong and i like his skillset)
most of the time i'm support in lane so try to get kills in lane with ganks and go arcane boots -> blink -> bracer -> refresher
but after blink is done in the midgame it almost looks always like this: blink in, ult, e, q on a low hp target to maybe snipe a kill and then i die b/c they all unload their shit on me. ofc its fine and i dont mind dieing but is there another reasonable way to build him maybe with blademail / forcestaff and no arcanes to survive better?
so mainly the question is, is blademail or forcestaff solving his mana probs? Tide needs the mana pool of arcane boots, hard to skip. If they "unload all their shit on you" and you are support and already used all your spells, enjoy! Casual cloak, vitbooster, platemail are all fine. Maybe reconsider refresher, as it worth almost nothing until completed. Sometimes it's fine to slowly grind it but it can be better to have other items with an actual impact when under pressure. Forcetsaff is good too. Then whatever team item with aura will make it, Don't be afraid to take farm with tide as he farms decently with anchor smash and scales decently too and he's not that good at ganking without ulti or gold/xp.
Interestingly, I've seen tides skip arcanes early recently. They do this by skipping the early points in gush. The delayed arcanes even lets them build a Meka.
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On May 27 2014 23:49 tauon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 15:40 nojok wrote:On May 27 2014 14:47 WladimirUN wrote:
One question to Tide:
(re-discovered that hero and it feels pretty strong and i like his skillset)
most of the time i'm support in lane so try to get kills in lane with ganks and go arcane boots -> blink -> bracer -> refresher
but after blink is done in the midgame it almost looks always like this: blink in, ult, e, q on a low hp target to maybe snipe a kill and then i die b/c they all unload their shit on me. ofc its fine and i dont mind dieing but is there another reasonable way to build him maybe with blademail / forcestaff and no arcanes to survive better?
so mainly the question is, is blademail or forcestaff solving his mana probs? Tide needs the mana pool of arcane boots, hard to skip. If they "unload all their shit on you" and you are support and already used all your spells, enjoy! Casual cloak, vitbooster, platemail are all fine. Maybe reconsider refresher, as it worth almost nothing until completed. Sometimes it's fine to slowly grind it but it can be better to have other items with an actual impact when under pressure. Forcetsaff is good too. Then whatever team item with aura will make it, Don't be afraid to take farm with tide as he farms decently with anchor smash and scales decently too and he's not that good at ganking without ulti or gold/xp. Interestingly, I've seen tides skip arcanes early recently. They do this by skipping the early points in gush. The delayed arcanes even lets them build a Meka.
Thats awful-ish though.
Mek + Ravage + Anchor Smash, now you have 60 mana (and that's assuming you had full mana to begin with).
3 Anchor Smash usages prior (with no extra regen) and you now only have mana for Mek OR Ravage, and not both.
Whoever was playing Tide on MVP (Forev?) during the SEA qualifiers kept doing it and he was consistently out of mana.
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United States47024 Posts
It was March that played it that tragic game vs. Mith where he and QO literally could not get a Sleep-Ravage without fucking each other over.
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I mean mek is fine on tide but mek makes you even more mana-boots-dependant since tide isn't great at sustaining his own spells much less adding mek on there.
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Yeah but in that case/s they got the Ravage off just mis-timed because incompetent (or at least I saw it twice, if there were other instances where he didn't have mana because of his item choices, I didn't see).
Yeah Mek is fine on Tide, but I definitely wouldn't be grabbing it prior to Arc. Boots.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
The ravage/song mistakes were down to a lack of communication - they hadn't taken the time to go over what to do if they were losing a fight - reset with song, or ravage. So they did both.
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On May 28 2014 00:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean mek is fine on tide but mek makes you even more mana-boots-dependant since tide isn't great at sustaining his own spells much less adding mek on there.
With the new ability to farm ancients/ancient stacks I'd probably say that you want mana boots on Tide regardless since they let you farm them and still have mana for fighting afterwards. It's also sort of a good reason to get mek on him since the regen/armor lets you farm the ancients better.
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I mean u always wanted mana boots but somebody was trying to argue they weren't necessary which gave u the farm to go mek which is just silly.
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If you're using a melee support like tide in a 2v2 lane, what should you be aiming to do? When I'm playing a ranged supporter (at least in a 2v2 lane) I try throw out harass and set up possibilities for an easy kill later as well as warding/pulling if that option is available. When you're playing a melee support, what should I be doing, since for the most part, harassing isn't an option. Obviously later on, you have a lot of power to start teamfights with big combos like SK's burrowstrike epi or tide's ult (or even earlier on with earthshaker), but I don't know what to do to set up an advantage earlier on in the lane playing a melee hero (unless there's an obvious kill opportunity with a good lane like SK and Wraith king or sven or something.
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United States47024 Posts
If you can kill, you kill. If you can't you focus on your own development. Gank other lanes if there are opportunities, otherwise just farm. A melee support really doesn't do much to apply pressure on the lane except as part of a kill threat.
Remember that on many of these supports, the greatest way to become scarier to the opponent is simply to have levels. A Sand King that farms and gets ranks 2 and 3 Burrowstrike ends up applying greater pressure by virtue of having those higher ranks of Burrowstrike than he does wasting time sitting in a lane where he can't get a kill.
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it depends on who you're laning with and against. anchor smash is a great lvl 1 skill. if its 2v2 i would not leave the lane ever unless the person you are laning with is hopeless. i wouldn't even pull unless the enemy heroes have no way to kill either one of you (but then why the hell are they laning together...)
tide with a decent ranged hero like lesh/lina/mirana etc should do fine in 2v2 reguardless of enemy comp. just dont ditch your teammate. don't know how many times lanes are lost because some guy decided to pull and the other team simply killed the hero left in lane.
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Anyone ever tried a phatostress build (enchantress+atos+phaseboots no midas)?
- The range on enchantress is 550 without septer and 740 with a septer+some stats for 4200 gold.
- An atos offers huge 1200 initiationrange at 10 second cooldown, 300 manapool, 0.8 manaregen.sec, 20 more attackdamage and 325 HP. I think that for 3100 gold a phatostress could offer more at an earlier timing then with a standard PT+midas+septer enchantress build. I could ofcourse buy the septer during the midgame after I have accuired the core 3 items.
- The phaseboots active synergises well with the atos active. I like to prioritize movementspeed over attackspeed when a build focusses more on an earlier timing.
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EPT
