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There's no magic answer, but I do find as a common carry issue is less in people's ability to last hit and more in their inability to create situations in which they can last hit. I see carries all the time who try to join in on every fight, every push, or every movement and end up spending the majority of the game walking from point a to point b. As a carry especially just stop and think about your movements and whether or not you can instead farm a spot for a little longer then move. Often times the difference between a bad farm and a farm good enough to win a game is just a few extra creep waves or neutral kills.
But uh also don't miss fights or big team moments, I find that less common nowadays, but it still happens. Just make sure you show up when you need to rather than earlier. The biggest mistake I see all the time is stuff like a carry showing up mid when the enemy is only just gathering at the mid tower for a push. Then they show up and sit there for a few minutes while neither side wants to commit to a fight or trusts their initiation well enough. The carry is usually much better off farming an additional wave or 2 with a TP scroll ready to jump in mid if the enemy team commits to a push.
To me a somewhat good indication (obviously all single metrics are sloppy and full of edge cases) of a mid-level pub carry is more in their levels than gold. If you aren't near the top or leading the game in levels it probably means you aren't in enough gold generating situations (including fights), since everything that makes gold also makes xp. Obviously there's a lot of times where a mid or offlane will do really well and might lead in levels, but in general the other heroes on your team are spending more time doing things that aren't strictly farming (like trying to shut down enemy carries, rotating, etc.) than you should be as carry. So eventually you should be seeing yourself pull ahead in levels. If you aren't (and your team isn't losing horribly) you're probably not in enough XP/Gold generating situations since XP is independent of your last hitting ability.
If you're getting levels but not gold then that's a better indication of a problem with your last hitting abilities, but in my experience that's usually not the case; most people in a game are about even in last hitting so just being better at being around things you can last hit will let you pull ahead.
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Logo, I understand and mostly agree with you.
But I have personally seem "Carries" who can't last hit if their life was on the line. They miss a lot of easy last hits under no pressure and can't last hit under a tower or with the thread of a deny. This should be unacceptable for a carry.
And the part where you point out that a carry should know that stopping their farm to go do anything else is a serious decision. Sometimes even when an engagement goes well and you get a kill or two it was not worth it. If the engagement goes too long, for example.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 26 2014 03:45 Jotoco wrote:
Logo, I understand and mostly agree with you.
But I have personally seem "Carries" who can't last hit if their life was on the line. They miss a lot of easy last hits under no pressure and can't last hit under a tower or with the thread of a deny. This should be unacceptable for a carry.
And the part where you point out that a carry should know that stopping their farm to go do anything else is a serious decision. Sometimes even when an engagement goes well and you get a kill or two it was not worth it. If the engagement goes too long, for example.
That's a thing.
When you're playing in pub you generally have to way more flexible than when you're playing tmm/stacks/competitive.
Because of it it's better to follow if you're not sure in your own power to carry 1v9.
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On March 26 2014 03:45 Jotoco wrote:
Logo, I understand and mostly agree with you.
But I have personally seem "Carries" who can't last hit if their life was on the line. They miss a lot of easy last hits under no pressure and can't last hit under a tower or with the thread of a deny. This should be unacceptable for a carry.
And the part where you point out that a carry should know that stopping their farm to go do anything else is a serious decision. Sometimes even when an engagement goes well and you get a kill or two it was not worth it. If the engagement goes too long, for example.
Last hitting in 2v2 lanes isn't not necessarily easy for a carry, especially if the carry has weak laning presence, low base damage or something similar and the opponents are trying to deny effectively. Saying a carry should always last hit perfectly when people are trying to deny with better animations/base damage is pretty silly. Sometimes similar stuff can happen under towers, your average pub player at 2.5-4.5k isn't going to know exactly when to drop items (qb/wraith) to ensure they get every last hit, they'll miss a couple from just RNG on tower hits/their hits
If you win an engagement and the team is proactive in doing something after (i.e. objectives woo!) then you should be there, same rule applies if you are defending a tower - if your team can win the fight and save the tower (or even better get the deny!) then you should be there, even if you lose 30-45 seconds of farm time to get a kill or 2.
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That's why I sort of like XP as a measure of carrying for mid level pub players (specifically mid level players); it's more indicative of being in the right places for farming than factors like having lane presence or good ally support. Basically if you have problems specifically playing carries take a look at your XP, if you don't feel like you're eventually leading the way in XP for your team as the game progresses there's a fair chance that you are not putting yourself in enough situations to take farm/gold and are spending too much time doing things like running around.
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United States47024 Posts
High XP is also indicative of strong teamfight participation because unless you're getting every kill, gold/XP gains from fights are heavily skewed toward higher XP gain.
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i don't think exp is a good way to measure anything at all. Just buy midas and you are a good carry? I don't think so, other than that the laning stage is huge, if you have a shitty support or ally in a 2v2 scenario the game is over for some heros. Tempo based heros often can't get back into the game especially if they don't have flash farm or need at least one item to do something. Participating in teamfights when your team is losing will make the exp look even worse and if the enemies have a gank heavy lineup you sometimes can't farm anything for a couple of minutes and your only chance is defending t3 with the whole team.
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Maybe there's a thread on this but... what are the situations that would make a midas purchase ideal, or at least a good choice?
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On March 28 2014 02:14 MMDT wrote:
Maybe there's a thread on this but... what are the situations that would make a midas purchase ideal, or at least a good choice?
In a gamr where you expect lategame, and farming potential to be the deciding factor, and your team can do well with you having a slower start.
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On March 28 2014 02:14 MMDT wrote:
Maybe there's a thread on this but... what are the situations that would make a midas purchase ideal, or at least a good choice?
your team has better lategame
you don't need to fight early
you benefit a lot from the attackspeed
you can get it fast
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On March 28 2014 03:10 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 02:14 MMDT wrote:
Maybe there's a thread on this but... what are the situations that would make a midas purchase ideal, or at least a good choice? your team has better lategame you don't need to fight early you benefit a lot from the attackspeed you can get it fast
Also spending 2k gold at something that would give more immediate effect, such as drums or vanguard or blink, is not needed or wouldn't benefit you more. I.e. Don't get Midas on slardar, because blink or vanguard will give you instant benefits that should be more suitable for your hero than accelerated farming ability.
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U meant blink or blink i'm sure.
Also you can justify Midas just fine on a slardar if your team isn't ready to do shit and you can finish your blink with the help of the midas in time to do whatever push you were planning.
Think "My chen needs 4 more mins to finish his mek then we can push", in which case you can probably grab midas and then finish blink right around his mek.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 28 2014 02:14 MMDT wrote:
Maybe there's a thread on this but... what are the situations that would make a midas purchase ideal, or at least a good choice?
When you want experience, when you're sure in your power and when you're sure that people against you won't push instantly after seeing your midas when your team have no waveclear.
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On March 27 2014 01:21 LonelyCat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 03:45 Jotoco wrote:
Logo, I understand and mostly agree with you.
But I have personally seem "Carries" who can't last hit if their life was on the line. They miss a lot of easy last hits under no pressure and can't last hit under a tower or with the thread of a deny. This should be unacceptable for a carry.
And the part where you point out that a carry should know that stopping their farm to go do anything else is a serious decision. Sometimes even when an engagement goes well and you get a kill or two it was not worth it. If the engagement goes too long, for example. Last hitting in 2v2 lanes isn't not necessarily easy for a carry, especially if the carry has weak laning presence, low base damage or something similar and the opponents are trying to deny effectively. Saying a carry should always last hit perfectly when people are trying to deny with better animations/base damage is pretty silly. Sometimes similar stuff can happen under towers, your average pub player at 2.5-4.5k isn't going to know exactly when to drop items (qb/wraith) to ensure they get every last hit, they'll miss a couple from just RNG on tower hits/their hits If you win an engagement and the team is proactive in doing something after (i.e. objectives woo!) then you should be there, same rule applies if you are defending a tower - if your team can win the fight and save the tower (or even better get the deny!) then you should be there, even if you lose 30-45 seconds of farm time to get a kill or 2.
I did not say they couldn't miss a single last hit EVAR!
There are people who play carry and can miss entire creep waves under no pressure. Under tower, with low base damage heroes even I (lowly 3.5 ~4k SUPPORT player) can hit most of a creep wave under a tower.
I did not say a quas wex invoker rushing a bottle first should out last hit an OD with null talisman first. I mostly resent when that OD totally misses everything.
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So I have been playing with Lycan and love playing the hero right now he can do so much in a game. My question when soloing rosh do you guys get Medallion first or just go with +4 wolves and vlads? I have been waiting for medallion but people on my team kept telling me to do it before but I think it would be pretty close. What are your strats?
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I'm a new player what mid champions should I play?
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On March 29 2014 04:38 eXeYukon wrote:
I'm a new player what mid champions should I play?
Whatever ones you enjoy. They are all free, this isn't a shitty game that makes you pay to play whatever you want. Maining a hero isn't generally necessary or even beneficial.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 29 2014 04:38 eXeYukon wrote:
I'm a new player what mid champions should I play?
Never say "champions" in dota-threads, there are "heroes".
Dunno, Queen of Pain, Pugna or Zeus are pretty ez. Core mids are QoP, Puck, Storm Spirit, SF, Invoker and if you want, Pudge and Batrider. Ember Spirit also is legit to master. And Templar Assassin.
Ah, and fucking Destroyer, how dare i forgot. Outworld Devourer.
On March 29 2014 04:33 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
So I have been playing with Lycan and love playing the hero right now he can do so much in a game. My question when soloing rosh do you guys get Medallion first or just go with +4 wolves and vlads? I have been waiting for medallion but people on my team kept telling me to do it before but I think it would be pretty close. What are your strats?
Doesn't matter, i don't like medallion at all for example on Lycan and don't value Roshan as much as Ursa values it for example. Focus on towers, if towers are gone, then yep, Roshan choice is legit. But i play only lane Lycan, i assume that jungler is basing on Roshan as high experience boost.
But afaik, you go vladmirs-medallion, even skipping pt sometimes and dive pit in smoke or asking someone to check the vision.
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Part of the medallion choice is that you actually are supposed to get the 2nd sobi mask before you even finish vlads just to allow you to summon wolves as soon as they run out basically.
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EPT
