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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 817

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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fifasnipe2224
Profile Joined January 2011
United States243 Posts
March 24 2014 16:05 GMT
#16321
Why build Nyx Assassin with Dagon and other intelligence items?
.:RoS:.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
March 24 2014 16:10 GMT
#16322
Nyx doesn't scale well as a carry due to having no abilities that scale with items carry-wise and not amazing agi gain. So there's pretty much no reason to build "carry" items on him. So you build him as a nuker/initiator with mana boots (MANDATORY since nyx has high mana costs and a terrible mana pool without), blink dagger, situationally dagon (ignore valve's recommended) and then if u get super luxury, stuff like hex, shivas, etc.

Utility teamfight/gank items just happen to be int items most of the time, and nyx is a utility teamfight/gank hero.

But yeah, dagon is good on nyx because he stops being able to 1-shot supports consistently unless he is way ahead, so a dagon helps him 1-shot them again for a period of time. Note that most games this isn't worth the investment.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-24 16:21:47
March 24 2014 16:21 GMT
#16323
On March 25 2014 01:05 fifasnipe2224 wrote:
Why build Nyx Assassin with Dagon and other intelligence items?


He doesn't have real ad scalings with this kit. You can play him as carry but farm doesn't really give him anything.

Dagon is just good when you want to go absolute ham and take control of game (fast dagon i mean), then everything is easy for you.
But it's way better to get dagger/force staff and then dagon to compliment your burst.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-24 17:29:36
March 24 2014 17:26 GMT
#16324
On March 25 2014 01:10 Sn0_Man wrote:
Nyx doesn't scale well as a carry due to having no abilities that scale with items carry-wise and not amazing agi gain. So there's pretty much no reason to build "carry" items on him. So you build him as a nuker/initiator with mana boots (MANDATORY since nyx has high mana costs and a terrible mana pool without), blink dagger, situationally dagon (ignore valve's recommended) and then if u get super luxury, stuff like hex, shivas, etc.

Utility teamfight/gank items just happen to be int items most of the time, and nyx is a utility teamfight/gank hero.

But yeah, dagon is good on nyx because he stops being able to 1-shot supports consistently unless he is way ahead, so a dagon helps him 1-shot them again for a period of time. Note that most games this isn't worth the investment.


At the same time he doesn't scale with tanky items either. Since carapace works independently from his base survivability (unlike say BB) hp/armor doesn't do anything special for him and his CDs aren't geared towards that style either (mostly longer cooldown bursty abilities). Sure hypothetically you can get off a 2nd carapace better, but 14s is a long bridge to gap for a little return and int items that disable would probably get you there better.
Logo
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 24 2014 17:32 GMT
#16325
If you're buying Dagon just to one-shot supports, you're simply unlikely to get that much value out of the item. On a support Nyx it's very rare that a Dagon will come out fast enough for it to really be useful, and it's not really an item you should buy that often.

On a mid Nyx, an early level/gold advantage from laning or ganking can warrant a Dagon depending on the game. The key point here is you have to have a sense of what it lets you do. Specifically--a Dagon is good if your level and item advantage mean that a Dagon allow you to threaten solo kills on IMPORTANT heroes (carries, item-dependent cores like Storm Spirit). If this is the case, the pressure you put on the enemy team to play tight and protect those heroes creates a lot of space for your team that can outweigh how the item becomes much less useful once enemy heroes move beyond solo kill range.
Moderator
ControlMonkey
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia3109 Posts
March 24 2014 20:54 GMT
#16326
Yeah, I find if I'm winning hard in mid lane, I go Dagon first and then back for blink. Makes me scarier. But as support generally I can't get it fast enough for it to be scary.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8277 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-25 02:26:36
March 25 2014 02:25 GMT
#16327
Someone explain to me the obsession with sheepstick on earthshaker? Sheepstick is one of those items that can be situationally good on every hero, I know. We just won a 72 minute game with 5 sheepsticks on our team. But why does almost every ES build have it as a core, whether its carry or support? I can sortof see it as a good luxury item for a support shaker..but for carry? You already have the initiation with blink. Wouldn't something to increase your dmg and thus crit be much better? Like, say, abyssal? Which gives you both more damage and health on top of the cc?

Ok, so I realise this isnt an easy question anymore. But I was thinking there must be something obvious I'm missing since, like I said, every guide is obsessed with it.
rebdomine
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
6040 Posts
March 25 2014 02:30 GMT
#16328
I would guess it's to do with buffing his mana pool and mana regen, as well as giving him that invaluable blink + hex combo, after which you can spill out all your stuns, pretty much stunlocking your poor target in place while he melts down because you've fissure blocked his whole team from saving him after the initial blink-hex initiation.
"Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right!"
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
March 25 2014 04:02 GMT
#16329
With a hex on a carryshaker, you can get off an extra totem in a fight. Totem, blink, echo, hit, totem, hit, fissure, totem, hit, hex, totem, hit. Better than having a bit extra crit damage, esp. since the crit damage is only based off base dmg + str.

My own question: I've seen so many batriders lately with MoM builds. What is this?
rebdomine
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
6040 Posts
March 25 2014 04:16 GMT
#16330
Those started last year when bone7 started getting MoM on batrider for extra MS when pulling the lasso'd target back.
"Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right!"
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-25 10:58:17
March 25 2014 09:32 GMT
#16331
MoM is an ok 4th/5th items on Bat (after blink+force+BoT/tranq) depending if you want BKB or not. Alternatives should be the general support items (shivas/hex/etc) but MoM is cheap and the movespeed synergizes well with lasso. You shouldnt get MoM at any earlier point that that though, if people are getting it after blink or something they're doing it wrong.
admireage
Profile Joined March 2014
2 Posts
March 25 2014 12:39 GMT
#16332
Guys ... i have 3.7k rating party and im play in SEA server
how to make my rating getting high.. im playing with my friend but only 3 man party or 2 man party
im playing carry .. thats so hard to climb rating in SEA
there is my dotabuff http://dotabuff.com/players/106562443 ty guys
Surprise.820
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1276 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-25 12:59:41
March 25 2014 12:54 GMT
#16333
Without looking at any of your games in-depth:
Necrobook 3 luxuries whenever you can on select heroes i.e. invoker, pushers or supports if you don't need to get ghost scepter.
Play more Chen, it's good to learn the pacing and mechanics of the game by just playing that hero. Don't worry about timing Centaur stomps, at least try it or get a Troll Summoner to set it up for you. Gank safe lane push two towers win game.
Even if you play carry, try to resist picking hard carry roles and go for a carry with earlyish impact if you want to scare the shit out of in-experienced players who don't know how to come back from a snowballing hero.
Just play more.

Your hero picks at first glance seem very snowbally and easy for the bracket though, honestly just play more you'll break the gap eventually as long as you pick up on stuff you need to improve mechanically or build-order etc.
Erase and improve
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-25 14:00:30
March 25 2014 14:00 GMT
#16334
I guess, getting more than 200 lasthits in 50 minutes game on carry can help.

Also, we can't help you to get better/luckier.
Every loss should teach you something. Then you will climb the ladder.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8916 Posts
March 25 2014 14:12 GMT
#16335
200 last hits on a carry at 50mins is fking terrible, especially since dota2 cs counter includes neutrals. by 50mins you want at LEAST 250 cs to say youre farming well at all. anything lower and youre not farming fast enough. ideally you want 300 at 50mins though, which gives you 6cs/min. aim for at least 6 because dota 2 cs shows neutrals, compared to dota 1 where you could just aim for at least 5 cs to say you farmed decently.
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-25 14:34:45
March 25 2014 14:31 GMT
#16336
Ideally you want 400-500, to be completely honest or even more.
250 is as terrible as 200 but as far as we speak about potm, she's almost useless carry anyway.

And just after slight look, i want to ask.
Probably, it's better for you to switch to some pushing comps? There are a lot of long games in your dotabuff, you have to know how to win before, it's not 2010.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-25 14:38:39
March 25 2014 14:34 GMT
#16337
It varies from hero to hero. To get 400 cs at 50 mins as potm you have to go zaphammer and basically spend the entire game ricing and avoiding fights. Luna or gyro on the other hand can fight with their team and still get cs scores like that assuming they are good.
E: Oh dear "cs score" sounds like baaaad english
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-25 15:07:25
March 25 2014 15:00 GMT
#16338
Well, the guy asks for help and the only thing people discuss is cs/min. There way too many variables involved to say that someone should have X cs by Y minutes. Laning, hero, overall game flow and enemy agressiveness/passiveness to name a few. And even if you could say that he should have higher (the guy is 3.7k, that probably means he's about as good as you'd expect at 3.7k, so saying he should have more cs because a 5.5k player could pull it off means nothing) it isnt gonna make him a better player.

Theres no magic advice to become better. Just the normal cliches (dont blame teammates, always evaluate your play and ask yourself what you could have done better, be helpful of teammates and randoms in your team, give directions if needed, etc etc etc). Keep trying and try harder.

On a side note: People asking for broad general advice will get broad and general responses (which often means nothing). I find it a lot more useful when people post a replay or maybe just a hectic part of a game and ask for advice what they could have done better. Few people are gonna read "always evaluate your play" and then suddenly actually start evaluating their play much better. Give a proper example and people can probably point out how you should be thinking in various situations, which will allow you to take your new knowledge and apply it to other situations to better understand what you can do better.

Asking "how do I get better" probably seldom leads anywhere.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
March 25 2014 15:04 GMT
#16339
Well, the "There's no magic advice to become better" part holds, which is why we touched on the simplest stuff: If you wanna be a carry u gotta hit dem creeps.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-25 15:26:44
March 25 2014 15:25 GMT
#16340
The danger there is that it can get people focused too much on CSing, when in reality often the most room to improve is in basic fight execution/skill usage and being in every fight to practice this.
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