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On October 16 2013 09:58 Sn0_Man wrote:
Orchid is awful just because its on Valve's recommended doesn't make it good. It lets you solo-kill some retards who think they are gonna waltz up and kill you in YOUR lane but lets be real that shouldn't happen.
The threat is often what matters rather than getting kills. You might not need orchid to out-duel the enemy team so it isn't a must buy item; Broodmother has some serious innate dueling ability with her ultimate/orb effect.
Also invisible aura bug since March'12. Valve ^_^
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What is the best way to counter a teamfight oriented team comp?
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Rat doto or push when their cooldowns are off is the simple answer.
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On October 16 2013 09:44 LeLoup wrote:
I'm considering trying out a new build for Broodmother.
The 'standard' I know is Soul Ring/Treads/Orchid for good solo killing power, but I feel like this is absurdly squishy and you really don't use the mana regen that well.
Instead I was considering Soul Ring/Treads/Drum/Yasha/BKB. The thing is that I don't know about drum on her. I feel like it's good because she can use the int, and makes her more tanky, plus the move/attack speed aura is really good for taking towers, but I feel like it's a lot of mid game items and hurts her already bad late game. Even if you make Manta after the BKB I don't know if that's enough by that time
Maybe it would be better to get the BKB after drum and then go Yasha/Manta after that.
Orchid was common in western dota around ti1. It was popular because am was always picked, and you could have orchid before he had manta and force him out of his jungle.
I like phase on brood if you teamfight, since you will not have web coverage early. If they have a bounty hunter, drums is very good for surviving/escaping back to your tier 1/2.
If you expect there to be a lot of fighting early, then drums is fine. If you expect late game, get midas.
I don't like orchid on brood unless they have a key hero without bkb like a warlock. Against carries, they'll have bkb/manta/diffusal so it's worthless. After bkb, hex, butterfly, crit are all decent for different reasons. Some players tried out halberd after ti2, which is ok if they have a solo carry.
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What happens if you force staff Wisp? Does he still go in a random direction like in Dota 1?
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^ short answer yes, i was watching iceiceice video today and he was saying
"what the fuck that guy need a face or something"
ahhaha
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Battle Brood: <15mins with PT+ MKB or Bfly (even better if you could make Radi), go join teamfight, farm heroes and push nonstop with team, and then make whatever items depend on the situation (most commonly a bkb after), you can make the game over before 30mins. Inspired by Beesa.
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On October 16 2013 14:48 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What happens if you force staff Wisp? Does he still go in a random direction like in Dota 1?
No, its face is distinguishable by a bright arc.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On October 16 2013 14:48 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What happens if you force staff Wisp? Does he still go in a random direction like in Dota 1?
He has a little arc thing indicating which way he is facing.
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On October 16 2013 13:29 stoppersur wrote:
What is the best way to counter a teamfight oriented team comp?
heroes in this comps are actually weak in the laning phase of the game (poor staying power in lane, no ultimate at the time, low base dmg, being melee).
single hit spells/stun early aggression can usually shut them down. For sidelanes, they usually have the same difficulty as hard-carries.
later in the game, skirmishes are preferable, picking off a lost hero, forcing them to use ultimates...
have you noticed, 4-5 hero mass-aoe strategies aren't often made during tournaments? With a synergistic
line-up, you pay with having low power heroes individually.
Playing aoe heroes are just hilariously FUN in pubs.. tidehunter, sandking, darkseer etc etc..a lot of bang bang..
the enemies just get exploded to pieces...
yeah, besides that you can ratdota.... I don't believe in that too much because an even match will end up in a stalemate.
So yeah, trying to get small advantages early on is a good way to do it.
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On October 15 2013 02:12 Targe wrote:
can someone give a quick explanation of how to harass as a support without pulling creep aggro? Or is it not actually possible?
after right clicking/casting a spell on the enemy hero, you should right click the ground immediately. The moment you right click the ground, the creeps will go back to their business.
Walking forward to your opponent (if it is safe of course),hence making him go backwards keeps him away from experience/last hit. Just don't click enemy heroes. This is what triggers the creep aggro.
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Right click the ground? All youre doing is moving away from the creeps after youve gotten their aggro.
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On October 16 2013 16:16 Discarder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 02:12 Targe wrote:
can someone give a quick explanation of how to harass as a support without pulling creep aggro? Or is it not actually possible? after right clicking/casting a spell on the enemy hero, you should right click the ground immediately. The moment you right click the ground, the creeps will go back to their business. Walking forward to your opponent (if it is safe of course),hence making him go backwards keeps him away from experience/last hit. Just don't click enemy heroes. This is what triggers the creep aggro.
Try not to give advice when you don't know the mechanics.Right clicking the ground does nothing in dota 2. Creeps reset their aggro every 2 seconds to the closest target. If you're just spamming the ground in no particular direction, thats still going to be you.
You aggro creeps when you are within creep range and you either right click the enemy, or the enemy rightclicks you. This means that is it possible to stand outside of creep range and right click the enemy, and let your hero start attacking him when he walks into range without getting harassed by the creeps..until the enemy hero rightclicks back. It also means its possible to use all your spells without aggroing creeps, including orb spells which are basically just better rightclick effects.
When you do get aggro, you either have to run away until their aggro resets, or you can attack-click a friendly unit. In both cases something else will still have to be the nearest target, or the aggro will simply just reset to yourself.
Another point to consider is when the creeps aggro you, even if you don't take any damage, is that they stop hitting your creeps. This means that they will take free damage, and the lane will push towards the enemy tower. This can be a costly affair for you if you do it willy nilly, but can also be used in your favor. The enemy hero will have trouble going for runes mid if the creep wave is inside his tower for instance, or if someone is pulling neutral creeps into the lane and you don't want to pull the enemy creeps into your tower range.
The same aggro mechanic is there for towers as well. If you attack-click a friendly unit, the tower will reset its aggro to nearest target. So you don't have to run miles away to make it stop hitting you.
edit: Your unit doesn't have to be below half hp. You don't have to actually do any damage. Just the attack-click command itself is what triggers the mechanic.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On October 16 2013 16:16 Discarder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 02:12 Targe wrote:
can someone give a quick explanation of how to harass as a support without pulling creep aggro? Or is it not actually possible? snip
This is very much incorrect on many levels.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On October 16 2013 16:46 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 16:16 Discarder wrote:On October 15 2013 02:12 Targe wrote:
can someone give a quick explanation of how to harass as a support without pulling creep aggro? Or is it not actually possible? after right clicking/casting a spell on the enemy hero, you should right click the ground immediately. The moment you right click the ground, the creeps will go back to their business. Walking forward to your opponent (if it is safe of course),hence making him go backwards keeps him away from experience/last hit. Just don't click enemy heroes. This is what triggers the creep aggro. Try not to give advice when you don't know the mechanics.Right clicking the ground does nothing in dota 2. Creeps reset their aggro every 2 seconds to the closest target. If you're just spamming the ground in no particular direction, thats still going to be you. You aggro creeps when you are within creep range and you either right click the enemy, or the enemy rightclicks you. This means that is it possible to stand outside of creep range and right click the enemy, and let your hero start attacking him when he walks into range without getting harassed by the creeps..until the enemy hero rightclicks back. It also means its possible to use all your spells without aggroing creeps, including orb spells which are basically just better rightclick effects. When you do get aggro, you either have to run away until their aggro resets, or you can attack-click a friendly unit. In both cases something else will still have to be the nearest target, or the aggro will simply just reset to yourself. Another point to consider is when the creeps aggro you, even if you don't take any damage, is that they stop hitting your creeps. This means that they will take free damage, and the lane will push towards the enemy tower. This can be a costly affair for you if you do it willy nilly, but can also be used in your favor. The enemy hero will have trouble going for runes mid if the creep wave is inside his tower for instance, or if someone is pulling neutral creeps into the lane and you don't want to pull the enemy creeps into your tower range. The same aggro mechanic is there for towers as well. If you attack-click a friendly unit, the tower will reset its aggro to nearest target. So you don't have to run miles away to make it stop hitting you. edit: Your unit doesn't have to be below half hp. You don't have to actually do any damage. Just the attack-click command itself is what triggers the mechanic.
There are also a few mistakes in this. Whether or not the enemy attacks you or not has no influence on what his own creeps do. Using orb attacks counts as using a spell, which has no effect on creeps at all. You also don't generally want to push out the mid lane using this trick because it's slow and means that the creep wave will be on his ramp, giving him high ground.
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On October 16 2013 17:09 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 16:46 Excludos wrote:On October 16 2013 16:16 Discarder wrote:On October 15 2013 02:12 Targe wrote:
can someone give a quick explanation of how to harass as a support without pulling creep aggro? Or is it not actually possible? after right clicking/casting a spell on the enemy hero, you should right click the ground immediately. The moment you right click the ground, the creeps will go back to their business. Walking forward to your opponent (if it is safe of course),hence making him go backwards keeps him away from experience/last hit. Just don't click enemy heroes. This is what triggers the creep aggro. Try not to give advice when you don't know the mechanics.Right clicking the ground does nothing in dota 2. Creeps reset their aggro every 2 seconds to the closest target. If you're just spamming the ground in no particular direction, thats still going to be you. You aggro creeps when you are within creep range and you either right click the enemy, or the enemy rightclicks you. This means that is it possible to stand outside of creep range and right click the enemy, and let your hero start attacking him when he walks into range without getting harassed by the creeps..until the enemy hero rightclicks back. It also means its possible to use all your spells without aggroing creeps, including orb spells which are basically just better rightclick effects. When you do get aggro, you either have to run away until their aggro resets, or you can attack-click a friendly unit. In both cases something else will still have to be the nearest target, or the aggro will simply just reset to yourself. Another point to consider is when the creeps aggro you, even if you don't take any damage, is that they stop hitting your creeps. This means that they will take free damage, and the lane will push towards the enemy tower. This can be a costly affair for you if you do it willy nilly, but can also be used in your favor. The enemy hero will have trouble going for runes mid if the creep wave is inside his tower for instance, or if someone is pulling neutral creeps into the lane and you don't want to pull the enemy creeps into your tower range. The same aggro mechanic is there for towers as well. If you attack-click a friendly unit, the tower will reset its aggro to nearest target. So you don't have to run miles away to make it stop hitting you. edit: Your unit doesn't have to be below half hp. You don't have to actually do any damage. Just the attack-click command itself is what triggers the mechanic. There are also a few mistakes in this. Whether or not the enemy attacks you or not has no influence on what his own creeps do. Using orb attacks counts as using a spell, which has no effect on creeps at all. You also don't generally want to push out the mid lane using this trick because it's slow and means that the creep wave will be on his ramp, giving him high ground.
I never stated the two first points there, and pushing the midlane before rune spawns is a very common tactic. Firstly it lets you get the rune more easily, and secondly you dont lose out on much when you do, because the creeps are under his tower after all.
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On October 16 2013 15:33 BurningSera wrote:
Battle Brood: <15mins with PT+ MKB or Bfly (even better if you could make Radi), go join teamfight, farm heroes and push nonstop with team, and then make whatever items depend on the situation (most commonly a bkb after), you can make the game over before 30mins. Inspired by Beesa.
Brood is easily my favorite hero in the game. She changes the game like no other hero does... and while there are obvious downsides to basically being fully committed to one lane all game and unable to change that very quickly, she's still so fun to play and so gamechanging left unchecked.
It's a bit unfortunate that her strengths come with obviously exploitable weaknesses, but still. So fun ^_____^
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On October 16 2013 17:15 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 17:09 Firebolt145 wrote:On October 16 2013 16:46 Excludos wrote:On October 16 2013 16:16 Discarder wrote:On October 15 2013 02:12 Targe wrote:
can someone give a quick explanation of how to harass as a support without pulling creep aggro? Or is it not actually possible? after right clicking/casting a spell on the enemy hero, you should right click the ground immediately. The moment you right click the ground, the creeps will go back to their business. Walking forward to your opponent (if it is safe of course),hence making him go backwards keeps him away from experience/last hit. Just don't click enemy heroes. This is what triggers the creep aggro. Try not to give advice when you don't know the mechanics.Right clicking the ground does nothing in dota 2. Creeps reset their aggro every 2 seconds to the closest target. If you're just spamming the ground in no particular direction, thats still going to be you. You aggro creeps when you are within creep range and you either right click the enemy, or the enemy rightclicks you. This means that is it possible to stand outside of creep range and right click the enemy, and let your hero start attacking him when he walks into range without getting harassed by the creeps..until the enemy hero rightclicks back. It also means its possible to use all your spells without aggroing creeps, including orb spells which are basically just better rightclick effects. When you do get aggro, you either have to run away until their aggro resets, or you can attack-click a friendly unit. In both cases something else will still have to be the nearest target, or the aggro will simply just reset to yourself. Another point to consider is when the creeps aggro you, even if you don't take any damage, is that they stop hitting your creeps. This means that they will take free damage, and the lane will push towards the enemy tower. This can be a costly affair for you if you do it willy nilly, but can also be used in your favor. The enemy hero will have trouble going for runes mid if the creep wave is inside his tower for instance, or if someone is pulling neutral creeps into the lane and you don't want to pull the enemy creeps into your tower range. The same aggro mechanic is there for towers as well. If you attack-click a friendly unit, the tower will reset its aggro to nearest target. So you don't have to run miles away to make it stop hitting you. edit: Your unit doesn't have to be below half hp. You don't have to actually do any damage. Just the attack-click command itself is what triggers the mechanic. There are also a few mistakes in this. Whether or not the enemy attacks you or not has no influence on what his own creeps do. Using orb attacks counts as using a spell, which has no effect on creeps at all. You also don't generally want to push out the mid lane using this trick because it's slow and means that the creep wave will be on his ramp, giving him high ground. I never stated the two first points there, and pushing the midlane before rune spawns is a very common tactic. Firstly it lets you get the rune more easily, and secondly you dont lose out on much when you do, because the creeps are under his tower after all.
You aggro creeps when you are within creep range and you either right click the enemy, or the enemy rightclicks you.
And secondly, the bit where you push out the lane before you check the runes is standard, yes, but is done quickly with nukes on the X:50 wave. Aside from that you want the wave to be on your side of the ramp as much as possible giving you high ground. If you rely too much on this tactic to push out the wave you'll end up doing it very slowly and giving him high ground advantage.
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On October 16 2013 17:40 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 17:15 Excludos wrote:On October 16 2013 17:09 Firebolt145 wrote:On October 16 2013 16:46 Excludos wrote:On October 16 2013 16:16 Discarder wrote:On October 15 2013 02:12 Targe wrote:
can someone give a quick explanation of how to harass as a support without pulling creep aggro? Or is it not actually possible? after right clicking/casting a spell on the enemy hero, you should right click the ground immediately. The moment you right click the ground, the creeps will go back to their business. Walking forward to your opponent (if it is safe of course),hence making him go backwards keeps him away from experience/last hit. Just don't click enemy heroes. This is what triggers the creep aggro. Try not to give advice when you don't know the mechanics.Right clicking the ground does nothing in dota 2. Creeps reset their aggro every 2 seconds to the closest target. If you're just spamming the ground in no particular direction, thats still going to be you. You aggro creeps when you are within creep range and you either right click the enemy, or the enemy rightclicks you. This means that is it possible to stand outside of creep range and right click the enemy, and let your hero start attacking him when he walks into range without getting harassed by the creeps..until the enemy hero rightclicks back. It also means its possible to use all your spells without aggroing creeps, including orb spells which are basically just better rightclick effects. When you do get aggro, you either have to run away until their aggro resets, or you can attack-click a friendly unit. In both cases something else will still have to be the nearest target, or the aggro will simply just reset to yourself. Another point to consider is when the creeps aggro you, even if you don't take any damage, is that they stop hitting your creeps. This means that they will take free damage, and the lane will push towards the enemy tower. This can be a costly affair for you if you do it willy nilly, but can also be used in your favor. The enemy hero will have trouble going for runes mid if the creep wave is inside his tower for instance, or if someone is pulling neutral creeps into the lane and you don't want to pull the enemy creeps into your tower range. The same aggro mechanic is there for towers as well. If you attack-click a friendly unit, the tower will reset its aggro to nearest target. So you don't have to run miles away to make it stop hitting you. edit: Your unit doesn't have to be below half hp. You don't have to actually do any damage. Just the attack-click command itself is what triggers the mechanic. There are also a few mistakes in this. Whether or not the enemy attacks you or not has no influence on what his own creeps do. Using orb attacks counts as using a spell, which has no effect on creeps at all. You also don't generally want to push out the mid lane using this trick because it's slow and means that the creep wave will be on his ramp, giving him high ground. I never stated the two first points there, and pushing the midlane before rune spawns is a very common tactic. Firstly it lets you get the rune more easily, and secondly you dont lose out on much when you do, because the creeps are under his tower after all. Show nested quote +You aggro creeps when you are within creep range and you either right click the enemy, or the enemy rightclicks you. And secondly, the bit where you push out the lane before you check the runes is standard, yes, but is done quickly with nukes on the X:50 wave. Aside from that you want the wave to be on your side of the ramp as much as possible giving you high ground. If you rely too much on this tactic to push out the wave you'll end up doing it very slowly and giving him high ground advantage.
Ah, read a word wrong there. Still, I did point out that orbs does not affect enemy creep aggro, and I still stand on enemy creeps attacking you if the enemy hero does. This is seen very obviously if you stand outside of range, right click, and let your hero run into range. The enemy creeps will ignore you until the enemy hero turns around and attacks you back.
Yes, if you can clear waves with a single, or two quick spells, that is great. A lot of heroes don't have that possibility though. You can easily do this at X:30 instead of 50, letting the enemy creeps run towards you for a bit making it easier to lasthit as well, and by the even number marks the creep wave will be under his tower unless he does something in return to push the wave back.
edit: Actually, I'll double check the enemy attacking you aggro and come back if I find something.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
I still stand on enemy creeps attacking you if the enemy hero does.
Very much no. I don't really know what else to tell you but it does not work that way.
There is a reason that mid heroes typically have fast creep clearing skills. If you don't the best way is to simply autoattack more on that single wave. Grabbing creep aggro in the lane by autoattacking the enemy is a very slow way of doing things that takes more than one wave to push far enough, and by that point you've given the high ground advantage to the enemy for that :50 wave, allowing him to outpush you and win the rune.
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EPT
