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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On October 15 2013 00:52 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 00:36 hzflank wrote:
If any when is it better to go Treads on Lifestealer?
I always go phase simply because the pro players do. I realize why this is, which is because lifestealer needs to chase people down and it can sometimes be very difficult pre-basher. However, it seems to me like he would really beenfit from the attack speed for feast, and the mana saved from switching would be really useful in the midgame if you dont go magic stick. Is it ever better to go treads vs slow opponents? if you dont need the mobility get treads. treads makes you hit harder.
Given a normal game, the damage output is quite close for midgame stuff. If you have a level 11 Lifestealer with Drum and Armlet with maxed out Rage, DPS during Rage with active Armlet is about the same for Phase (260) and Treads (268). With a Drum charge active under same conditions, that's 271 for Phase and 278 for Treads.
Phase does more damage early and helps you chase better, while Treads get better with more items. If you pick up a Basher -> Ablade (very common) and get to level 16, then you have better DPS with Treads (482) over Phase (453).
I was bored.
Also oops ignore everything I just said I forgot Feast lol
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
I was thinking of doing what RoyGBiv_13 said but if you can just a-move that's great.
You're all amazing and I'm gonna practice this.
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I must have missed something but why is Troll Warlord a top pick right now ?
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Because he recently got added to CM
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On October 14 2013 23:06 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 21:43 Jolle wrote:I have a question: I was reading the Competitive Hero tier list September 01 - September 30 2013 and I see that Lion is almost never picked. Why isn't Lion a more popular support hero in competitive play? For me he has a good (reliable) stun, buildt in sheepstick, and burst dmg with his ult. I can see that he's somewhat lacking in aoe dmg like some of the other simular supports... the biggest reasons he isnt picked is his lvl dependency and mana costs. he has to be full mana to throw his whole combo down and hes pretty much useless after that. his 3rd skill was buffed recently to regen a huge amount of mana back, which is good, but he needs too many lvls for him to actually use mana drain properly. if icefrog reduced the mana cost any/some of his skills, i could see him becoming a popular hero again. if his mana costs are reduced however, personally i expect to see him at mid more than support though.
Wonder how he would do paired with OD and Essence Aura mana restore then >D
Thx for the answer 
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On October 15 2013 03:40 Jolle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 23:06 evilfatsh1t wrote:On October 14 2013 21:43 Jolle wrote:I have a question: I was reading the Competitive Hero tier list September 01 - September 30 2013 and I see that Lion is almost never picked. Why isn't Lion a more popular support hero in competitive play? For me he has a good (reliable) stun, buildt in sheepstick, and burst dmg with his ult. I can see that he's somewhat lacking in aoe dmg like some of the other simular supports... the biggest reasons he isnt picked is his lvl dependency and mana costs. he has to be full mana to throw his whole combo down and hes pretty much useless after that. his 3rd skill was buffed recently to regen a huge amount of mana back, which is good, but he needs too many lvls for him to actually use mana drain properly. if icefrog reduced the mana cost any/some of his skills, i could see him becoming a popular hero again. if his mana costs are reduced however, personally i expect to see him at mid more than support though. Wonder how he would do paired with OD and Essence Aura mana restore then >D Thx for the answer
Well if he needs the mana to get off a full combo about 36-60% of the time it won't matter at all depending on how many spells Lion can get off before needing EA to proc to keep going. That is assuming EA is maxxed which generally wouldn't be until decently far into the game. At level 1 EA it's 80-90% chance it won't proc within 2 spells.
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On October 15 2013 03:13 Kerm wrote:
I must have missed something but why is Troll Warlord a top pick right now ?
Aside from just being released into CM, he serves a very versatile hero laning-wise who has a short-cd global attack speed buff which greatly aids pushing power and teamfighting ability. Combined with an OD for example, a free 100+ attack speed with orbs flying everywhere is scary as hell.
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On October 15 2013 06:52 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 03:13 Kerm wrote:
I must have missed something but why is Troll Warlord a top pick right now ? Aside from just being released into CM, he serves a very versatile hero laning-wise who has a short-cd global attack speed buff which greatly aids pushing power and teamfighting ability. Combined with an OD for example, a free 100+ attack speed with orbs flying everywhere is scary as hell.
Not to mention his stupidly cheap spells. 50 mana cost on both his axes. I know there are other heroes that use very little mana but troll takes the cake.
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On October 15 2013 12:18 Daaktard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 06:52 synapse wrote:On October 15 2013 03:13 Kerm wrote:
I must have missed something but why is Troll Warlord a top pick right now ? Aside from just being released into CM, he serves a very versatile hero laning-wise who has a short-cd global attack speed buff which greatly aids pushing power and teamfighting ability. Combined with an OD for example, a free 100+ attack speed with orbs flying everywhere is scary as hell. Not to mention his stupidly cheap spells. 50 mana cost on both his axes. I know there are other heroes that use very little mana but troll takes the cake.
Bristleback takes the cake back.
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troll gets WAY more bang for his buck in that regard.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
BB gets Magic Stick'd while Troll doesn't.
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what are the timings to aim for with bfury on am in each instance, do they even vary?
freefarm:
solo vs solo:
dual (stack and pull) vs solo
(assuming minimal kills and deaths, and no boots)
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there is only a good timing and bad timing. doesnt matter what your lane looked like, just get your bfury by a certain point no matter what.
the fastest you can get a bfury assuming no kills no towers is:
no boots 10-11 mins
boots 12mins
treads 14mins
to be safe you want a bfury before 17-18mins at the latest so that you can be relevant mid game with bfury+manta. otherwise the chances of you being shut down gets higher as enemies start to pick up orchids/lvls etc
ok so i just changed the numbers around a little. did some testing myself and at near perfect cs these were the times i got. but this was a lobby game so you have to keep in mind you will almost never get a situation where you can free farm for 15mins without any interruptions.
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On October 15 2013 19:46 evilfatsh1t wrote:
there is only a good timing and bad timing. doesnt matter what your lane looked like, just get your bfury by a certain point no matter what.
the fastest you can get a bfury assuming no kills no towers is:
no boots 11-12 mins
boots 13mins
treads 15mins
to be safe you want a bfury before 17-18mins at the latest so that you can be relevant mid game with bfury+manta. otherwise the chances of you being shut down gets higher as enemies start to pick up orchids/lvls etc
I'm not sure I agree. Those are the standards people have set, yes. But if its 20 minutes into the game and no towers have fallen yet, you will still be in good shape finishing that bf. It is a farming item, and as long as it will let you farm, you're going to rocket up in usefulness. If the enemy is being aggressive on the other hand, pushing for T2 by 15 min, you might need to abandon the BF completely and go for items that lets you be useful now rather than later, as there might not even be a "later" if you don't.
So while I agree with the numbers above, do also take into consideration how the game looks like and how its unfolding.
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no, right, i understand some games you need to go treads first or even vlads
but i was just asking so i know how much cs i'm missing basically
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i did say chances. im not saying you will definitely be irrelevant if you get your bfury after 17-18mins, however normal orchid timings for some heroes such as qop, furion or storm come at around 20mins give or take a couple mins. if youve only just finished your bfury but theyre finshing their orchids, it wont matter if all the towers are up because they will still find you and hinder your farm long enough for their carry to pop out with 1 more big item than yours, and just 5 man you.
as i said, nothing is concrete but a bfury after 17-18mins means hard game.
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On October 15 2013 20:08 mizU wrote:
no, right, i understand some games you need to go treads first or even vlads
but i was just asking so i know how much cs i'm missing basically
In that case let's assume the ideal timing to be around 13 minutes, so aiming to brown boots+Battlefury. Assume no starting gold spared.
Boots 450g and and B-fury 4350g. In 13 minutes you passively gain 13x75x1gold=975 gold so you need to earn 450g + 4350g - 975g = 3825g during the 13 minutes to afford the Battlefury.
A wave is about 177gold and siege creep in every seventh wave is worth 73 gold. So lets just say that every wave is worth 187 gold so that we dont have do too much maths :D
3825 divided by 187 gives 20,5 so with perfect lasthitting 21th wave should be when you reach 3825 gold from creeps alone. 21st wave spawns 10:00 so the passive gold gain has not actually given you 975g but rather something around 787 gold (10:30 minutes) So you still lack 197ish gold which is a creepwave plus a bit of passive gold. This means that 22rnd (spawns at 10:30) wave is when you can reach the required gold sum assuming no gold was earned from kills/towers and no starting gold was spared.
B-fury at 13 minutes means about 4 waves of missed creeps, so you should have 85ish cs by 13minutes. 14 minute B-fury is (4800g-14*75*1g)/187g/wave = 20 waves, so in terms of CS it means 83 by 14 mins.
Basically every minute more it takes to get the B-fury means 2 missed waves. So in terms of lasthitting percentage with 100% you'll get b-fury in about 11:05 when the creeps spawned at 10:30 are lasthittable. If you get the B-fury in 13 minutes you've misssed 4 waves out of 26 (not counting the wave that spawns at 13:00) so your efficiency or accuracy or Black^ness or Burningness or whatever is about 85%. 14 minutes means 20/28 waves so ~71%. 15 minutes is 19,5/30 which is 65%.
If I screwed up something heavily let me know :D
P.S. If you score every second last hit (so 50% efficiency -> From 00:00 to 01:00 GPM is half a wave so 93+passive 75 gpm and from 01:00 to 17:30 GPM 262 so a wave per minute for 187gpm +passive 75gpm and from 17:30 onwards GPM 305 when the waves grow by a melee creep worth of ~43 gold ) B-Fury takes 19 minutes to farm.
EDIT: passive gold is 75/minute not 60/minute as I claimed previously, thanks Flamewheel!
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starting to play CM/CD lately (which on my level is sometimes quite a pain...) i wanted to ask how to play an offensive trilane? every time we do it we face a defensive tri and we are able to block the pull camp but in the end we fail hard most of the time.
whats the goal for supports in an offensive tri? both tri's harass like crazy and it's kinda hard to pull off a victory? or am i playing it horribly wrong?
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On October 15 2013 21:18 WladimirUN wrote:
starting to play CM/CD lately (which on my level is sometimes quite a pain...) i wanted to ask how to play an offensive trilane? every time we do it we face a defensive tri and we are able to block the pull camp but in the end we fail hard most of the time.
whats the goal for supports in an offensive tri? both tri's harass like crazy and it's kinda hard to pull off a victory? or am i playing it horribly wrong?
blocking pull camps doesnt mean you win the lane. defensive trilanes are considered successful if they can secure farm for the carry. the pull camps are only there for the supports to keep up in gold and levels in cases where they arent needed in lane. an offensive trilane therefore has to shut down the enemy trilane to be considered successful. pick supports that can kill their heroes quickly or apply constant pressure to their carry. also, dont go aggressive trilane with a carry that benefits from free farm himself. for example, if your enemy picked am you would be better off going aggressive with a trilane like wr + 2 supports. that way wr will be able to get a reasonably fast orchid while maintaining pressure in the lane so that am cant farm as easily. a bad example of a trilane would be sending a spectre with 2 supports against their defensive trilane, as spectre benefits a lot more from safelane farming and has 0 kill potential
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EPT
