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On August 07 2013 02:42 Gotuso wrote:
Thanks for the reply/discussion on my Nature's Prophet question!
Personally, I've been playing him as a pusher/farmer for most of my games. However, I often found that I either couldn't split push safely because of a Nyx or Spiritbreaker, or my team really needed a 5th in teamfights. By going Medallion, or Urn apparently, I was hoping to contribute more to my team, creating space for my carry/offlaner allowing for a better 4 man team if I split push.
I still have a few questions though:
- What about a Dagon rush instead of Urn/Medallion? Too slow/unreliable, too silly? Should I get an Urn/Medallion first and then Dagon after?
- What is everyone's thoughts on Desolator? I heard it's a weak item on Prophet, but it always feels like I do so much more damge/split pushing with it then with something else. Is Necronomicon really a better (pushing) item?
- Why do pro player build Phase Boots on Prophet? I always get Power Threads without question, yet in pro game I see people go Phase quite often. Is there a point in going Phase in pubs?
I think they get phase boots because it's pure damage. With treads, you can get more int or str, but does NP really need those? Usually he isn't the one tanking the enemy, so str isn't needed. Int gives him damage and mana - but phase gives more damage and you don't need too much mana when you can teleport to the fountain every 20 seconds. What do you think power treads has that makes them better for NP than phase boots?
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On August 07 2013 02:58 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 02:42 Gotuso wrote:
Thanks for the reply/discussion on my Nature's Prophet question!
Personally, I've been playing him as a pusher/farmer for most of my games. However, I often found that I either couldn't split push safely because of a Nyx or Spiritbreaker, or my team really needed a 5th in teamfights. By going Medallion, or Urn apparently, I was hoping to contribute more to my team, creating space for my carry/offlaner allowing for a better 4 man team if I split push.
I still have a few questions though:
- What about a Dagon rush instead of Urn/Medallion? Too slow/unreliable, too silly? Should I get an Urn/Medallion first and then Dagon after?
- What is everyone's thoughts on Desolator? I heard it's a weak item on Prophet, but it always feels like I do so much more damge/split pushing with it then with something else. Is Necronomicon really a better (pushing) item?
- Why do pro player build Phase Boots on Prophet? I always get Power Threads without question, yet in pro game I see people go Phase quite often. Is there a point in going Phase in pubs? I think they get phase boots because it's pure damage. With treads, you can get more int or str, but does NP really need those? Usually he isn't the one tanking the enemy, so str isn't needed. Int gives him damage and mana - but phase gives more damage and you don't need too much mana when you can teleport to the fountain every 20 seconds. What do you think power treads has that makes them better for NP than phase boots?
Survivability. He has none. That extra bit of health really helps. In pro games where you can position yourself perfectly and rely on your team, its all well and good to go for Phase boots. In pubs? Not so much.
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Phase Boots or Power Treads on Sniper?
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United States47024 Posts
Dagon on Prophet is very good if your team is ahead. The problem is that it has poor buildup, and if you just rush-farm it it makes you somewhat of a one-trick pony, whereas other items have more flexible transitions. But in the right situations, it puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the enemy team. You have to judge whether it's appropriate based on the levels/farm of the enemy heroes and whether it allows you to finish kills. If you TP in, Dagon, Sprout, autoattack, and miss a kill by 1-2 right clicks every time, you become very useless very quickly, whereas other builds have better ability to play from behind.
I consider Deso to be quite situational. Killing towers fast solo should only really be a concern if the enemy is poor about actually defending their towers (it's not like you can stand there and hit the tower if one person TPs to come save it).
As a fighting item, a straight damage item is very impractical as your first major item on Furion. The problem with the hero is that his stand-and-fight ability is very poor, so he desperately needs items that create "space" for him to do damage before he actually gets a damage item. This is why you typically see items half defensive/utility items like Mek, Lothar's, BKB, AC, Necrobook, Sheep, etc. before a transition to purely damage items later on, rather than immediately rushing a damage item.
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On August 07 2013 03:07 Whole wrote:
Phase Boots or Power Treads on Sniper?
highly depends on the game and personal preference. i prefer phase in most games cuz he kinda need some mobility and damage. also i max shrapnel instead of headshot. but if you want to do a max headshot build more attackspeed is probably what you want. ( DONT MAX HEADSHOT, SHRAPNEL IS AMAZING)
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You can Dagon first but to do so you must actually get Dagon first because Midas -> Dagon is awful
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On August 07 2013 02:58 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 02:42 Gotuso wrote:
Thanks for the reply/discussion on my Nature's Prophet question!
Personally, I've been playing him as a pusher/farmer for most of my games. However, I often found that I either couldn't split push safely because of a Nyx or Spiritbreaker, or my team really needed a 5th in teamfights. By going Medallion, or Urn apparently, I was hoping to contribute more to my team, creating space for my carry/offlaner allowing for a better 4 man team if I split push.
I still have a few questions though:
- What about a Dagon rush instead of Urn/Medallion? Too slow/unreliable, too silly? Should I get an Urn/Medallion first and then Dagon after?
- What is everyone's thoughts on Desolator? I heard it's a weak item on Prophet, but it always feels like I do so much more damge/split pushing with it then with something else. Is Necronomicon really a better (pushing) item?
- Why do pro player build Phase Boots on Prophet? I always get Power Threads without question, yet in pro game I see people go Phase quite often. Is there a point in going Phase in pubs? I think they get phase boots because it's pure damage. With treads, you can get more int or str, but does NP really need those? Usually he isn't the one tanking the enemy, so str isn't needed. Int gives him damage and mana - but phase gives more damage and you don't need too much mana when you can teleport to the fountain every 20 seconds. What do you think power treads has that makes them better for NP than phase boots?
It's really unrealistic to expect you won't be taking damage as NP
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On August 07 2013 02:42 Gotuso wrote:
Thanks for the reply/discussion on my Nature's Prophet question!
Personally, I've been playing him as a pusher/farmer for most of my games. However, I often found that I either couldn't split push safely because of a Nyx or Spiritbreaker, or my team really needed a 5th in teamfights. By going Medallion, or Urn apparently, I was hoping to contribute more to my team, creating space for my carry/offlaner allowing for a better 4 man team if I split push.
I still have a few questions though:
- What about a Dagon rush instead of Urn/Medallion? Too slow/unreliable, too silly? Should I get an Urn/Medallion first and then Dagon after?
- What is everyone's thoughts on Desolator? I heard it's a weak item on Prophet, but it always feels like I do so much more damge/split pushing with it then with something else. Is Necronomicon really a better (pushing) item?
- Why do pro player build Phase Boots on Prophet? I always get Power Threads without question, yet in pro game I see people go Phase quite often. Is there a point in going Phase in pubs?
I would build Dagon only from a position where you can have gold and exp lead on the enemy heroes. Since I usually play NP jungling, Ithat never happens.
Desolator is fine, but it is noticably cheap. The problem is that NP can use his time absolutely seamless. If you can do something sensible all the time you will have gold and exp advantage over everyone pretty fast.
Because those pleb heroes need to walk everywhere and can't gain exp and gold while walking. On the other hand NP is teleporting everywhere and can farm/gank/heal without wasting walking(much).
Bottom line of this is that NP usually gets 6-slotted quicker than almost everyone else. This of course requires some gamesense, since the whole map is available to you.
As far as I know shadow blade is often picked up by pros because it allows greater safety when pushing in dangerous areas.
In pub terms that riki or spirit breaker can gank you and get the jump on you every time, but if they don't bring dust or sentries you can just go invis and teleport away(NP teleport doesn't break invis during cast).
You can get items that cost 4k or less, but if you spent your time wisely you will run out of itemslots and have to sell these cheap items again very quickly.
Items like orchid malevolence and shadow blade make for a really strong start with good rightclick for teamfights and sologank utility, later items like scythe of vyse, daedalus, mjollnir, skadi etc. will round out your inventory and make a carry out of NP who actually has no kind of manfighting skill.
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On August 07 2013 02:42 Gotuso wrote:
Thanks for the reply/discussion on my Nature's Prophet question!
Personally, I've been playing him as a pusher/farmer for most of my games. However, I often found that I either couldn't split push safely because of a Nyx or Spiritbreaker, or my team really needed a 5th in teamfights. By going Medallion, or Urn apparently, I was hoping to contribute more to my team, creating space for my carry/offlaner allowing for a better 4 man team if I split push.
I still have a few questions though:
- What about a Dagon rush instead of Urn/Medallion? Too slow/unreliable, too silly? Should I get an Urn/Medallion first and then Dagon after?
- What is everyone's thoughts on Desolator? I heard it's a weak item on Prophet, but it always feels like I do so much more damge/split pushing with it then with something else. Is Necronomicon really a better (pushing) item?
- Why do pro player build Phase Boots on Prophet? I always get Power Threads without question, yet in pro game I see people go Phase quite often. Is there a point in going Phase in pubs?
A lot of the NP players that go phase boots are also off laning rather than pure jungling. The extra mobility that you get plus extra damage for harass is really nice in lane
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What would be the reasoning behind going for a delayed Radiance on Weaver? Fnatic.Trixi went for one in this game (among others) after a casual Hood and casual Vit Booster. I guess the Radiance burn buff makes it more relevant in teamfights, but wouldn't going for more single target damage (something like a Desolator/Daedalus/MKB) be more useful as Radiance falls off later on in the game?
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On August 07 2013 05:13 Shootemup. wrote:What would be the reasoning behind going for a delayed Radiance on Weaver? Fnatic.Trixi went for one in this game (among others) after a casual Hood and casual Vit Booster. I guess the Radiance burn buff makes it more relevant in teamfights, but wouldn't going for more single target damage (something like a Desolator/Daedalus/MKB) be more useful as Radiance falls off later on in the game?
Radiance actually does a lot of damage. 50dmg/sec to 5 heroes is fucking a lot, and when you have beetles on a lot of heroes all that dmg adds up. You also still get the +60dmg from the Sacred Relic, also its good for farming/splitpushing cause you can invis once and kill everything pretty quickly.
If you want a direct damage item for Weaver I'd probably go for Abyssal/MKB and never Deso.
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The "standard" (well bulldogs normal) build on NP is so nice because every item gives him something usefull but in the end they all add up to a lot of damage anyway.
Midas, treads shadowblade actually gives 90 attack speed and shadowblade sheepstick gives 57 extra damage. Thats not to shabby for items that you get for totally different reasons than damage. Add on a deadalus and you suddenly hit like a truck with 138 extra damage and crits and a decent attack speed.
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On August 07 2013 02:53 Excludos wrote:
Phase boots allows you to deal more damage and chase down your opponents. That said its a bit of a gamble, as NP doesn't exactly have amazing survivability. In pubs I'd go for threads as well.
Where did referring to treads as threads come from?
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On August 07 2013 11:43 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 02:53 Excludos wrote:
Phase boots allows you to deal more damage and chase down your opponents. That said its a bit of a gamble, as NP doesn't exactly have amazing survivability. In pubs I'd go for threads as well. Where did referring to treads as threads come from?
Not gonna lie, I always think the person who types it just mistyped treads, and if they do it more than once I assume they can't read... never even crossed my mind it would be intentional
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On August 07 2013 05:13 Shootemup. wrote:What would be the reasoning behind going for a delayed Radiance on Weaver? Fnatic.Trixi went for one in this game (among others) after a casual Hood and casual Vit Booster. I guess the Radiance burn buff makes it more relevant in teamfights, but wouldn't going for more single target damage (something like a Desolator/Daedalus/MKB) be more useful as Radiance falls off later on in the game?
In general IF you want to get a Radiance on Weaver nowadays what can be considered standard are small midgame items (Urn/Aquila/Drum/Medallion, depending on what your team needs) and snowball with your now incredibly strong presence into the Radiance off fights/towers. Just straight up farming the Radiance can get awkward quickly, unless you can safely assume you have those 20 minutes of free space.
It's not super obvious from the scoreboard, but I assume he really wanted to be able to tank some burst damage (hence Vitbooster), don't ask me about the Hood though. There isn't that much magic damage on Zenith's team. It could be that he got the RoH early on for laning and wanted to use it somehow, really no clue without seeing the game.
Vitbooster -> Radiance in general is a similar idea as outlined above, considering the game looks rather stompy I assume he just had 3.8k gold for the Relic at one point and went for it. =P
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Well, I'm pretty new to dota and I have a question about courier management, specifically a best practice so that no conflict rises with other players.
To start off, I inherently have a habit of hitting the hotkey to shop, right click an item, then shift+d+f+r (the cause being sc2's shift mechanics). This seems to work pretty well, but I guess it's not conspicuous to other players during the courier's trip back to base and to my stash then to me. That first step, the trip back from having delivered an item to a different player, seems to be the problem because it doesn't notify the other players that I am using it (I think).
So my conclusion is that it's probably better to just wait for the courier to go back to base in its entirety before commanding it to 1) stash then 2) deliver. But is there a simpler way to go about this?
And I'm also really curious as to how people handle situations where two players need the courier.
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I've been doing some ownage build on furion and I haven't lost with it yet. Get the standard Midas (Mek) sheep and then get an abyssal. That shit does so much work and everyone will thin you're a genius when you stun that raged naix
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On August 07 2013 14:06 billy5000 wrote:
Well, I'm pretty new to dota and I have a question about courier management, specifically a best practice so that no conflict rises with other players.
To start off, I inherently have a habit of hitting the hotkey to shop, right click an item, then shift+d+f+r (the cause being sc2's shift mechanics). This seems to work pretty well, but I guess it's not conspicuous to other players during the courier's trip back to base and to my stash then to me. That first step, the trip back from having delivered an item to a different player, seems to be the problem because it doesn't notify the other players that I am using it (I think).
So my conclusion is that it's probably better to just wait for the courier to go back to base in its entirety before commanding it to 1) stash then 2) deliver. But is there a simpler way to go about this?
And I'm also really curious as to how people handle situations where two players need the courier.
you proably have hotkeyed the courrier as well, then just check from time to time that he's going your way. The number micro shouldn't be a problem, 22,11^^
I think your way of doing it works nice, I'll probably start using it too =P. Other people often will fail to notice that it has a mission right now, so that's why it's best to just check from time to time.
Usually first come first serve^^
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hello, i recently started playing dota and have a couple of question about jungling (with ursa) that i didn't get in guides/videos i read/watched
1. what do you do when you don't clear the first camp before 1' ? i always kill the last neutral at ~58" so i can't get far enough before 1' to let the camp respawn
2. when do you stop farming the easy camp and start farming the medium ones? and the hard ones?
3. when do you stop jungling and start laneing/ganking?
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On August 07 2013 16:55 Rider517 wrote:
hello, i recently started playing dota and have a couple of question about jungling (with ursa) that i didn't get in guides/videos i read/watched
1. what do you do when you don't clear the first camp before 1' ? i always kill the last neutral at ~58" so i can't get far enough before 1' to let the camp respawn
2. when do you stop farming the easy camp and start farming the medium ones? and the hard ones?
3. when do you stop jungling and start laneing/ganking?
hey
1. When you understand that you can't clear the easy camp before 1m, just stack it! (even if there is only one creep alive) You will get more easy exp&gold.
2. Just look at the creeps. Ofc, you cant kill Centaur but you can with some regen (tangos!) kill hard camps like trolls at level 2 (with orb effect and fury swipes).
3.Ursa is a underrated jungler but it can be really efficient cuz you can gank early (lvl 2 or 3). I usually take 1 point in each skills at level 3, check the rune and I try to be aggresive. If u have a mate on the line with a stun/slow/hex it's basically a 1stblood.
As 1st item, it depends. If u'r ganks are succesfull i go phase before vlad. If not, rush vlad, buy a smoke and go for a fast roshan 
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EPT
