EPTWhat about Maelstrom and Mjolnir?
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 548
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
What about Maelstrom and Mjolnir? | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:22 Kraznaya wrote: how do u deal with lothars doom in CM guys  The way you deal with Lothar & Doom. Detection & Linken Sphere. On August 01 2013 21:50 Random() wrote: Why is it that attack speed items are not popular on heroes with bash-like passives, like Void and Sniper? The usual reasoning about MoM is that it is a stupid item on already squishy heroes, but it's not like anyone forces you to activate it if you expect to be taking damage. With Sniper you are usually screwed either way if you get caught out of position, but if you manage to stay out of incoming damage headshots seem really powerful in early fights, like completely locking down your target. Void's bash does double damage in a chronosphere and he lacks damage to make good impact in his sphere early, so it kind of makes sense to abuse attack speed in the early-mid game, plus it helps farm jungle. What about Maelstrom and Mjolnir? Attack speed is popular with those heroes, except people prefer to get items that gives both dmg & atk speed rather than a MoM which just gives pure attack speed. Maelstrom n Mjnolnir is built on Void most of the time, and snipers can choose to go Shadowblade for a escape mechanism, dmg & attack speed. They can still build maelstrom etc. I do not know why you say atk speed items aren't popular. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On August 01 2013 20:43 Jelissei wrote: Is there a list of heroes categorized in earlygame, midgame and lategame heroes? (obviously most carries would be lategame and most support earlygame, but there are carries who can fight midgame and carries who really should wait for lategame. Naga and Alchemist are even played as support and carry.) just play the game and you'll see...there are 3 categories: 1) "ranged supports", they are spellcasters and die easily (lion, lich). you need two of these, each to accompany a carry in the two side lanes. they need to buy the courier , and put down wards all game. they do not last-hit but instead protect the other player in the lane 2) semi-carries, they are a bit tougher and can hold their own through the midgame (nix, spirit breaker). one semi-carry will go in mid lane, and one in a side lane (protected by a support). the mid semi-carry should come help out a lane around the 10 minute mark. if one mid hero goes missing, the other (enemy) mid hero should tell the team and come help out the others aswell 3) hard carries, they become deadly in late-game (antimage, void). you will have 1 of these and he will go on the safer lane, protected by a support, and later jungle or take creep waves if it is safe 4) heroes that are a mix of being really good early, mid and late game, like lifestealer and gyro. gyro has powerful spells early game (like a support) and then does crazy physical damage lategame (like a hard carry) 5) hero combos that are supposed to end the game within 30 minutes or will lose (eg spirit breaker against antimage) 6) hero combos that are supposed to survive for 50 minutes in order to win (eg antimage against spirit breaker) eh, to answer your question, just play the game and you will figure it out. generally if you get far ahead with any given hero you will snowball into being a carry. the phrase "carry" just means that you are individually doing well on your team. a lina who stuns and kills lots of opponent heroes will be able to buy a bloodstone/heart/whatever lategame items, whereas an alchemist/sniper who dies 5 times in 5 minutes might be better off just buying some wards and playing support | ||
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Jelissei
193 Posts
Therefore my question is focussing on early-, mid- and lategame, rather than hero roles. The 10 minute mark in your post is kinda the information I´m looking for. Thanks! | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
i recommend typing "purge plays [hero name]" into youtube, he does 1st person tutorials so you can see heroes in action when you're getting ready to sleep. i have 700 games of dota and still not played many heroes, but watching youtubes gives me an idea of what they're capable of | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Jelissei
193 Posts
still nooby ; ) + Show Spoiler + (have a bit more than 200 games on my back) I know of purge and have watched probably 20-30 of his "purge plays...." and newbgame commentaries. I usually play support and am working on 1) doing the pull with two different creep locations (getting the timings right) and 2) dewarding (which I basicly dont do yet). Some friends and I are starting to do CM and I was gonna read up on how (and when!) different heroes function in game. We will probably learn mostly by just doing CM and failing for a while, but I was hoping to cut the failing down a notch : D A list of heroes put in those time categories would help me a lot. It would speed up my learning experience, because I would not have to do it myself. Again to the TL-community: If you know of a list of heroes categorized in early-, mid- and lategame heroes, I´d be happy for a link! | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On August 01 2013 23:16 Jelissei wrote: thanks, I´m not that nooby though. still nooby ; ) + Show Spoiler + (have a bit more than 200 games on my back) I know of purge and have watched probably 20-30 of his "purge plays...." and newbgame commentaries. I usually play support and am working on 1) doing the pull with two different creep locations (getting the timings right) and 2) dewarding (which I basicly dont do yet). Some friends and I are starting to do CM and I was gonna read up on how (and when!) different heroes function in game. We will probably learn mostly by just doing CM and failing for a while, but I was hoping to cut the failing down a notch : D A list of heroes put in those time categories would help me a lot. It would speed up my learning experience, because I would not have to do it myself. Again to the TL-community: If you know of a list of heroes categorized in early-, mid- and lategame heroes, I´d be happy for a link! Maybe someone will work on that. But that stuff is relative. You can get a general idea like this: Early game heroes are those that basically just need their spells and basic attack. Like Lina, Crystal Maiden, Dazzle. Mid game heroes are the ones that can do a lot with some core items or simply level advantage. Like Sand King with a dagger, Leshrac with some items to increase his mana/hp, Ursa with some mobility and HP items or Razor with whatever core items a Razor would buy. Late game heroes are the easiest. It's those that scale very well with items or exp and almost exclusively dps heroes. Heroes like Alchemist, Spectre, Morphling or Phantom Lancer. But a lot of heroes defy these categories. Juggernaut may look like a lategamer, but he is incredibly strong early game and peaks mid game with an aghanims after boots. Queen of pain looks like an early game hero with her strong spells, but is actually a mid game hero because of her high mobility and decent dps, she mainly needs some form of hp and mana. Some heroes like Batrider completely defy this because they are useful all game. Batriders biggest strength is not the damage of his spells, but that he can catch an enemy and pull him into the middle of his team, which is a 95% sure kill. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 01 2013 22:42 FFGenerations wrote: btw another "most important" thing you should watch straight away is a youtube guide on 1) ward positions 2) how to doublestack camps and pull creeps. i think someone posted one such guide/thread a week or 2 ago. the sooner yyou understand that the better, coz its easy to put it off That information is actually pretty useless for someone starting out. In fact, support play too focused on pulling leads to a ton of support players you see that absolutely have no idea how to lane, gank, or do anything during laning except camp their pull camp. Pulling only acts as a supplement to those things, and should only come into play when you have a good handle on those things already. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On August 02 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote: That information is actually pretty useless for someone starting out. In fact, support play too focused on pulling leads to a ton of support players you see that absolutely have no idea how to lane, gank, or do anything during laning except camp their pull camp. Pulling only acts as a supplement to those things, and should only come into play when you have a good handle on those things already. So true, for exemple an SD kept stacking/pulling when his melee agi carry was facing centaur and jakiro. Wtf?! Many supports don't trade their regen items for offlaner regen item in order to grant their carry a good xp and item advantage which could allow them to roam and/or pull. Supporting is really fun to play when played correctly, I think the fact many people don't know how to support decently makes it the unpopular choice in pubs. I also would like to add that sometimes you'll grab many kills early game, don't hesitate to ask others to buy a set of wards and to take a few last hits if it allows you to grab a really early blink dagger/mek. Lion, rhasta, rubick, nyx, ES for exemple can really snowball hard if you grab an early dagger. | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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IBashar
France40 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:22 Kraznaya wrote: how do u deal with lothars doom in CM guys By playing Lothars on CM ! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rooZiXe.png) Additional tip: rush Aghanim after that but don't pick Point Booster first nor second because you need Blade of Alactry for Attack Speed and Staff of Wizardry for damage. So, my Simple Question : how can you avoid this kind of nonsense ? | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On August 01 2013 22:07 Mithhaike wrote: The way you deal with Lothar & Doom. Detection & Linken Sphere. wtf? linkens doesnt counter doom; ur spending like 5k gold to take off level death and a bit of regen and stats sounds awful to me and obviously ull bring detection for him in 5v5 fights, doesn't matter because doom will make one of ur cores useless for the entire fight (or he can fight and die) so u lose the 5v5s u cant split push either because he will appear out of nowhere with lothars and doom u | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On August 02 2013 06:27 IBashar wrote: By playing Lothars on CM ! Additional tip: rush Aghanim after that but don't pick Point Booster first nor second because you need Blade of Alactry for Attack Speed and Staff of Wizardry for damage. So, my Simple Question : how can you avoid this kind of nonsense ? Avoid it by playing with friends. There are idiots at all skill levels. | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On August 02 2013 06:53 Kraznaya wrote: wtf? linkens doesnt counter doom; ur spending like 5k gold to take off level death and a bit of regen and stats sounds awful to me and obviously ull bring detection for him in 5v5 fights, doesn't matter because doom will make one of ur cores useless for the entire fight (or he can fight and die) so u lose the 5v5s u cant split push either because he will appear out of nowhere with lothars and doom u Doesn't matter if Linkens doesn't counter Doom. It gives you enough time to react. Leverage and all... For example being a Naga Siren with Linkens makes it pretty much impossible for Doom to ever kill you alone while you're splitpushing. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
I was pretty certain that it does. Linkens is a fine pickup against doom when the situation warrants it. | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On August 02 2013 07:50 PassiveAce wrote: according to liquipedia Linkens does block doom. That's not the point... If you have a Linkens, Doom uses LVL?Death to take it off first then Dooms you.... But refer to my above post for why Linkens is good vs Doom. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
I misread his Kraz' comment but yeah, just having the time where he pops it is a big deal. | ||
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