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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 546

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
July 31 2013 00:15 GMT
#10901
On July 31 2013 09:04 jrkirby wrote:
How does the backdoor protection system work? I've seen it in action before, but I'm not sure what triggers it.

creeps have to be close to the tower.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1511 Posts
July 31 2013 00:20 GMT
#10902
On July 31 2013 09:15 Targe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 09:04 jrkirby wrote:
How does the backdoor protection system work? I've seen it in action before, but I'm not sure what triggers it.

creeps have to be close to the tower.

How close? On all towers? Does it have to be your creeps near their tower?
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
July 31 2013 00:32 GMT
#10903
On July 31 2013 09:20 jrkirby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 09:15 Targe wrote:
On July 31 2013 09:04 jrkirby wrote:
How does the backdoor protection system work? I've seen it in action before, but I'm not sure what triggers it.

creeps have to be close to the tower.

How close? On all towers? Does it have to be your creeps near their tower?


The backdoor protection triggers rely on rectangular regions in dota1 rather than a specific range (and I don't have a means to find out how large they are). Tier 1 towers do not have backdoor protection and yes it has to be your creeps.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1511 Posts
July 31 2013 00:39 GMT
#10904
So you could theoretically protect your towers by sneaking behind the enemy team and quickly killing their creeps when they want to push (if they are in front of their creeps, waiting for the next wave)? Is there a certain grace time after the creeps die where BD protection doesn't come back?

Can you give me approximate sizes for the region, like is it half the lane, or much smaller than that? Does BD protection ever work on T4 towers?
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
July 31 2013 00:47 GMT
#10905
bd protection works for all buildings except t1 towers. even the buffer buildings
Cyx.
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada806 Posts
July 31 2013 00:50 GMT
#10906
On July 31 2013 09:39 jrkirby wrote:
So you could theoretically protect your towers by sneaking behind the enemy team and quickly killing their creeps when they want to push (if they are in front of their creeps, waiting for the next wave)? Is there a certain grace time after the creeps die where BD protection doesn't come back?

Can you give me approximate sizes for the region, like is it half the lane, or much smaller than that? Does BD protection ever work on T4 towers?


IIRC backdoor protection is enabled if there are creeps or creep corpses around, so... not sure exactly how long but if you can still spawn little troll skeletons you should still be able to hit without backdoor protection ^^
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1511 Posts
July 31 2013 00:51 GMT
#10907
BD protection is just regeneration right? Is it possible to be out-DPSed? How much regeneration is it approximately?
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1511 Posts
July 31 2013 00:52 GMT
#10908
On July 31 2013 09:50 Cyx. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 09:39 jrkirby wrote:
So you could theoretically protect your towers by sneaking behind the enemy team and quickly killing their creeps when they want to push (if they are in front of their creeps, waiting for the next wave)? Is there a certain grace time after the creeps die where BD protection doesn't come back?

Can you give me approximate sizes for the region, like is it half the lane, or much smaller than that? Does BD protection ever work on T4 towers?


IIRC backdoor protection is enabled if there are creeps or creep corpses around, so... not sure exactly how long but if you can still spawn little troll skeletons you should still be able to hit without backdoor protection ^^

Oh, that makes tons of sense!
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
July 31 2013 00:52 GMT
#10909
On July 31 2013 09:20 jrkirby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 09:15 Targe wrote:
On July 31 2013 09:04 jrkirby wrote:
How does the backdoor protection system work? I've seen it in action before, but I'm not sure what triggers it.

creeps have to be close to the tower.

How close? On all towers? Does it have to be your creeps near their tower?

I can't answer that question, sorry
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Jinxed
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States6450 Posts
July 31 2013 00:58 GMT
#10910
On July 31 2013 09:20 jrkirby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 09:15 Targe wrote:
On July 31 2013 09:04 jrkirby wrote:
How does the backdoor protection system work? I've seen it in action before, but I'm not sure what triggers it.

creeps have to be close to the tower.

How close? On all towers? Does it have to be your creeps near their tower?


It's about the range of the siege creep from what I can tell. It's all buildings except tier 1 towers and yes it has to be your creeps.
LiquidDota Staff"LeLoup is a great name pls undo." -Liquid`Nazgul
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 01:08:06
July 31 2013 01:06 GMT
#10911
On July 31 2013 09:39 jrkirby wrote:
So you could theoretically protect your towers by sneaking behind the enemy team and quickly killing their creeps when they want to push (if they are in front of their creeps, waiting for the next wave)? Is there a certain grace time after the creeps die where BD protection doesn't come back?

Can you give me approximate sizes for the region, like is it half the lane, or much smaller than that? Does BD protection ever work on T4 towers?


Yes you can. Corpses last 15 to 20 seconds which is your grace period.

The JASS for the backdoor protection are determined by if creeps are in a certain region; it doesn't say how big said regions are although I will guess that it is maybe 700 range around the tower. For the base, if a creep enters highground then the entire base loses backdoor protection.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
July 31 2013 02:34 GMT
#10912
On July 31 2013 08:50 Targe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 06:04 Andr3 wrote:
On July 31 2013 04:18 Targe wrote:
Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.

I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?

I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me.

Early mek into blink, with PT's is super good for ganking. But it's situational, generally you just wanna go aghs->blink and then depending on the enemy lineup go for ac/heart/skadi. Heart if it's mostly magical dmg, AC if the enemy team has rly insane -armor and people on your team benefit from it a lot as well. Skadi is an item that's really good vs a lot of physical heroes as it gives the most EHP in that regard. Stacks with geostrike as well so it can be pretty powerful.

Ideally you want someone else to make a vlads/ac/mek but again it's situational and you gotta check the enemy lineup, your lineup and how the game is going on. Eblade can work sometimes too but it's kinda cheesey and I would only get it as a second major item after aghs/blink. It's pretty good vs heavy hitters like PA/void etc.

And you probably shouldn't start with a QB. Meepo does have terrible base dmg but not getting a stout will get you punished unless you have total freefarm. You have pretty good armor but you almost always want a stout or at least a RoP start into tranqs. One thing to note is that, you want to get PTs asap because tranqs when broken really suck with the terrible movement speed. But it's okay because RoR/RoP can be made into a vlads.


Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 05:23 Whole wrote:
On July 31 2013 04:18 Targe wrote:
Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.

I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?

I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me.

I don't think you need Mekanism. It is definitely good, but I think it delays Blink Aghs too much. Also you need to swap Aghs and Blink based on the game. If the enemy team is 5 manning, you'll want Aghs before Blink. If you can still blink gank before the enemy starts to 5 man, get the blink first. I think Aghs first is safer if you're unsure. Also I swap Tranquils for Treads after Aghs because it really helps jungling for farming up the Aghs (the Aghs is needed ASAP no matter what build you're doing).

After that just get Hearts and EBlades (most +stats) and a Vlads if you wanna hit a timing.


Thanks guys! I guess I'll swap to Tranquils -> Treads -> Aghs -> Blink as my default, I was finding my timing window for ganks to be quite small so that's great to know!

I'll drop the QB and move to a Stout as well, I thought his high starting armour would be enough.

Still don't think I'm quite ready to take him -cm yet though.


You should get Aghs before Treads. No point in getting Tranquils if you're just going to build up to a different boot immediately. All of you Meepos can use the Tranquil active, so it's really good to jungle with the Meepos, using Tranquils to heal between camp, to farm Aghs...and after Aghs you can jungle easily without Tranquils.
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 06:29:28
July 31 2013 02:45 GMT
#10913
On July 31 2013 09:51 jrkirby wrote:
BD protection is just regeneration right? Is it possible to be out-DPSed? How much regeneration is it approximately?


On June 30 2013 05:46 TheYango wrote:
It varies based on which tower it is, whether you're doing physical or magical damage (because towers have armor but no magic resistance), and whether the damage source is a hero or not (because the amount of damage dealt to Fortified armor is different based on the attacking unit's damage type).

Towers have 90 HP regen/sec and take 25% reduced damage when BD prot is active, and T2/T3/T4 towers have 20/25/30 armor respectively. Assuming you're using a hero and doing purely physical damage, this means you need a raw DPS of 528/600/672 between all attacking heroes to outdamage BD prot on T2/T3/T4 towers respectively.

Note this math is slightly different if illusions are involved, because Illusion damage is reduced further by BD prot than other sources of damage.


took me a while to find that post lol

edit:

When should you consider Necronomicon as an item choice? I know it's good for pushing, but it seems like it is too expensive and comes into play too late to make it useful for just pushing unless it is rushed.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
July 31 2013 11:58 GMT
#10914
On July 31 2013 11:34 Whole wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 08:50 Targe wrote:
On July 31 2013 06:04 Andr3 wrote:
On July 31 2013 04:18 Targe wrote:
Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.

I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?

I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me.

Early mek into blink, with PT's is super good for ganking. But it's situational, generally you just wanna go aghs->blink and then depending on the enemy lineup go for ac/heart/skadi. Heart if it's mostly magical dmg, AC if the enemy team has rly insane -armor and people on your team benefit from it a lot as well. Skadi is an item that's really good vs a lot of physical heroes as it gives the most EHP in that regard. Stacks with geostrike as well so it can be pretty powerful.

Ideally you want someone else to make a vlads/ac/mek but again it's situational and you gotta check the enemy lineup, your lineup and how the game is going on. Eblade can work sometimes too but it's kinda cheesey and I would only get it as a second major item after aghs/blink. It's pretty good vs heavy hitters like PA/void etc.

And you probably shouldn't start with a QB. Meepo does have terrible base dmg but not getting a stout will get you punished unless you have total freefarm. You have pretty good armor but you almost always want a stout or at least a RoP start into tranqs. One thing to note is that, you want to get PTs asap because tranqs when broken really suck with the terrible movement speed. But it's okay because RoR/RoP can be made into a vlads.


On July 31 2013 05:23 Whole wrote:
On July 31 2013 04:18 Targe wrote:
Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.

I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?

I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me.

I don't think you need Mekanism. It is definitely good, but I think it delays Blink Aghs too much. Also you need to swap Aghs and Blink based on the game. If the enemy team is 5 manning, you'll want Aghs before Blink. If you can still blink gank before the enemy starts to 5 man, get the blink first. I think Aghs first is safer if you're unsure. Also I swap Tranquils for Treads after Aghs because it really helps jungling for farming up the Aghs (the Aghs is needed ASAP no matter what build you're doing).

After that just get Hearts and EBlades (most +stats) and a Vlads if you wanna hit a timing.


Thanks guys! I guess I'll swap to Tranquils -> Treads -> Aghs -> Blink as my default, I was finding my timing window for ganks to be quite small so that's great to know!

I'll drop the QB and move to a Stout as well, I thought his high starting armour would be enough.

Still don't think I'm quite ready to take him -cm yet though.


You should get Aghs before Treads. No point in getting Tranquils if you're just going to build up to a different boot immediately. All of you Meepos can use the Tranquil active, so it's really good to jungle with the Meepos, using Tranquils to heal between camp, to farm Aghs...and after Aghs you can jungle easily without Tranquils.


Another change then, yeah I was using Tranquils to farm jungle (it make it so much easier!), only thing I've noticed is that some of the meepos can get low on mana from poofing to clear camps, would the best way to resolve this just be to have someone with arcanes nearby?
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Rodberd
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany531 Posts
July 31 2013 12:29 GMT
#10915
2 meepos can clean 1 camp on their own, so you could replace the low mana meepo with the original one and send the other back to base for refill. poof him back and all should be fine
Ooooh, look at it go
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
July 31 2013 13:40 GMT
#10916
On July 31 2013 21:29 Rodberd wrote:
2 meepos can clean 1 camp on their own, so you could replace the low mana meepo with the original one and send the other back to base for refill. poof him back and all should be fine

1 meepo can clear 1 camp too, so you can have 2 meepos clearing 2 camps, I kinda feel like I'm not using the hero to it's potential if I clear them as a 2. Same thing with sending 1 back, I feel like I'm wasting time where I could be getting XP.

I could try farming with one and stacking with another I guess?
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Ryder.
Profile Joined January 2011
1117 Posts
July 31 2013 15:43 GMT
#10917
Why is Tusk never picked competitively? Such a fun hero to play.
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 15:47:07
July 31 2013 15:45 GMT
#10918
I do have that issue right when I hit the jungle as well. If I'm 11 and they're OOM, I'll just have two at the same camp to keep clearing. If I'm pre-11 and the jungling one is oom. I'll either switch it out with my main one (so it can just leech lane exp.), bring it back to base (not ideal, but sometimes you gotta do it), or hopefully someone will have arcanes.

I mean, I don't play Meepo often enough, so I'm sure you can find a more efficient way, but this is what I do when I do end up picking or randoming him. I definitely feel that it is inefficient as well.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
July 31 2013 15:47 GMT
#10919
On August 01 2013 00:43 Ryder. wrote:
Why is Tusk never picked competitively? Such a fun hero to play.

Sometimes fun to play and competitively viable are mutually exclusive.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 31 2013 15:52 GMT
#10920
He's situationally good, but he has a couple glaring weaknesses, and is outshined by several similar heroes in many cases.
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