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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
To me it also feels very awkward to play weaver from behind in that way, so I can't tell you anything positive about him in 1v3 lanes. Underfarmed weaver has to be a lot more cautious, because of non-existent or very late linkens sphere/bkb and because all your use will come from your spells if you're underfarmed. Also your manapool will be tighter than usual. But if your enemies do a bad trilane, anything can happen  | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Against typical trilanes seen in pro games he shouldn't solo, at least not hard lane. He can be a 1v3 safe lane solo if you're trying to dodge the aggressive trilane. | ||
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Rodberd
Germany531 Posts
is it like: 5th = buy wards, dust etc pp needed and stack/pull camps 4th = get arcanes, mek other needed items or how would you set their tasks? im asking because i started to join the TLIHs (im I got meepo'wned) and feel sometimes quite useless because i have no real idea what to do next. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8913 Posts
4ths buy arcanes (usually not mek since they wont afford it), drums etc BECAUSE they get more money than the 5th position. 5th positions only usually buy wards/smokes/dust etc BECAUSE thats all their income allows for. | ||
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Lexia
Philippines10 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8913 Posts
as a shadowfiend, you also have the bonus that you can kill her from full hp if shes out of position quite easily from lvl 5. couple of right hits + 2 razes and she is either dead or on such little hp she has to back anyway | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Louis8k8
Canada285 Posts
When do I start roaming? After lv6 or after a specific weapon? Example would be against CK+wisp or DK+veno | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 31 2013 00:15 Louis8k8 wrote: New player here. How do I offlane with clockwerk against more than 1 opponent? All I manage to do is have mediocre farm with rocket flares and not die. But I can hardly get any advantage when I am so easily ganked and constantly denied creep. When do I start roaming? After lv6 or after a specific weapon? Example would be against CK+wisp or DK+veno Offlane clock loses the lane, pretty much. Generally, you get level 1 cogs, and cog the creeps twice on their way to lane in the first wave so you can have the lane as close as possible to your tower. Often, you will just have to sit as close to XP range as possible, and try to get a few last hits with rocket flare (usually keep this at level 1, and max your battery assault, as this makes your ganking power a lot stronger at level 6.) If you force the other team's lane to constantly force you out of XP range by harassing you / trying to gank you instead of accomplishing other goals (clock is pretty solid 1v1 due to the power of battery assault and a level 1 cogs), you are accomplishing quite a lot. Knowing when to roam is pretty situational with this hero, but usually you want to at least wait until you are 6 before you initiate a gank (clock is one of the best heroes to gank mid with due to the absurd range of his ultimate). Use your judgement to know when and where to roam - sometimes if you can keep a 1v1 lane where you have kill potential with clock while the other's teams support is roaming, that is best. Not always though - sometimes you'll want to tp to another lane to initiate a gank. A handful of games with Clock will tell you what is best. Traditional Clock builds will just pick up brown boots, usually a bottle to help with mana (maybe a bracer, though I don't see drums as often), eventually into some combination of Treads, bottle, Forcestaff, and Ghost Scepter. A lot of clocks favor getting Aghs, which I think is a bit mediocre, but its not bad per se. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On July 31 2013 00:15 Louis8k8 wrote: New player here. How do I offlane with clockwerk against more than 1 opponent? All I manage to do is have mediocre farm with rocket flares and not die. But I can hardly get any advantage when I am so easily ganked and constantly denied creep. When do I start roaming? After lv6 or after a specific weapon? Example would be against CK+wisp or DK+veno You are playing it right. You arnt expected to get amazing farm, your expected to hit six very quickly and start moving around to have an impact on the game. The MOMENT you hit six on the solofflane you are a deadly force, start looking around the map for targets that will die to your full combo, and remember if your opponents are running 2-1-2 lanes then you will be higher level then 4 of their heroes, making many of them easy kills. | ||
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hooahah
3752 Posts
at that point I didn't really know what to get. Got Vlads (sustainability), Basher (because tangle isn't enough to make people mad), BoTs (kinda useless in retrospect), Cloak (because fuck magic). Ghost Scepter if against powerful right clickers, force staff??? Mjollnir doesn't seem as useful since Bear is alreay in full rape mode. Basically, it depends on what I need I guess - more damage/survivability. How's MKB/Butterfly/Daedelus for the bear? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Once you get all that stuff on the bear, you can transition into buying things on the hero. In competitive play, stacking out the bear entirely is usually the safest way to play (and games don't go long enough for you to 6-slot the Bear anyway), but in pubs, buying some items for your hero earlier isn't bad. Basically after your Bear has everything necessary, normal Agi carry stuff can be used to fill slots on your hero. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Maybe as situational 6th item. You could clarify which item you get on your hero and which on your bear. You seem to talk about your bear when you consider mjollnir, but you also mentioned ghost scepter which you definitely shouldn't get on your bear. My preference would be to get a heart of tarrasque for the druid, and start using him to right click too. If you're dedicated to using just your bear for safety reasons, get daedalus and/or mkb on the bear. With high attackspeed from ac/mjollnir, your bear should be able to melt towers incredibly fast. | ||
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hooahah
3752 Posts
On July 31 2013 01:14 Mataza wrote: You shouldn't get butterfly on the bear. It gives him 30damage/30as which is as good as shadowblade. Maybe as situational 6th item. You could clarify which item you get on your hero and which on your bear. You seem to talk about your bear when you consider mjollnir, but you also mentioned ghost scepter which you definitely shouldn't get on your bear. My preference would be to get a heart of tarrasque for the druid, and start using him to right click too. If you're dedicated to using just your bear for safety reasons, get daedalus and/or mkb on the bear. With high attackspeed from ac/mjollnir, your bear should be able to melt towers incredibly fast. that's the thing though, the Bear melted towers with only a Maelstorm. Seems kind of a waste to get more damage when he's already hitting like a truck. And yeah, I mentioned the Ghost Scepter for the Druid. casual talisman of evasion sounds better than the Butterfly, that's what I had in mind when I thought of the butterfly. Neat. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 31 2013 01:23 hooahah wrote: that's the thing though, the Bear melted towers with only a Maelstorm. Seems kind of a waste to get more damage when he's already hitting like a truck. And yeah, I mentioned the Ghost Scepter for the Druid. casual talisman of evasion sounds better than the Butterfly, that's what I had in mind when I thought of the butterfly. Neat. There's definitely a point in time where your bear needs to have more damage output - obviously it can melt tower, but the DPS against opposing carries really starts to suffer. Traditional builds I do are: Maelstrom (or radiance) -> AC (maybe a vlads as well,depends) -> Basher (ghost scepter on main druid, if applicable) -> MKB (or crit if no Butterfly / dodge hero) -> Second Basher on Druid (depends, I might switch this out for another dps item for the bear). After that, you start getting a bit silly, but it gets pretty situational. Half of what makes LD strong in the lategame is his ability to lock down mobile carries, and is lack of need to build a lot of EHP items. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
How would a hard carry 6-slotted Juggernaut build look like? | ||
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Louis8k8
Canada285 Posts
On July 31 2013 00:51 Comeh wrote: Offlane clock loses the lane, pretty much. Generally, you get level 1 cogs, and cog the creeps twice on their way to lane in the first wave so you can have the lane as close as possible to your tower. Often, you will just have to sit as close to XP range as possible, and try to get a few last hits with rocket flare (usually keep this at level 1, and max your battery assault, as this makes your ganking power a lot stronger at level 6.) If you force the other team's lane to constantly force you out of XP range by harassing you / trying to gank you instead of accomplishing other goals (clock is pretty solid 1v1 due to the power of battery assault and a level 1 cogs), you are accomplishing quite a lot. Knowing when to roam is pretty situational with this hero, but usually you want to at least wait until you are 6 before you initiate a gank (clock is one of the best heroes to gank mid with due to the absurd range of his ultimate). Use your judgement to know when and where to roam - sometimes if you can keep a 1v1 lane where you have kill potential with clock while the other's teams support is roaming, that is best. Not always though - sometimes you'll want to tp to another lane to initiate a gank. A handful of games with Clock will tell you what is best. On July 31 2013 00:58 PassiveAce wrote: You are playing it right. You arnt expected to get amazing farm, your expected to hit six very quickly and start moving around to have an impact on the game. The MOMENT you hit six on the solofflane you are a deadly force, start looking around the map for targets that will die to your full combo, and remember if your opponents are running 2-1-2 lanes then you will be higher level then 4 of their heroes, making many of them easy kills. Thanks for responses! It really helps me get an idea of what situation's normal and what is falling behind. | ||
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
On July 31 2013 02:25 Whole wrote: What are some good first items on Sniper? Some friends that I play with seem to rush Shadowblade on him by default, but that seems pretty bad. How would a hard carry 6-slotted Juggernaut build look like? Shadow blade offers him an escape as well as an ability for solo pickoffs. I guess Manta could be an option if you don't want Shadow Blade. If you are forced to go BKB first you are pretty much done for, Sniper needs attack speed and damage as well as mobility, none of which BKB gives. | ||
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Evisser
United States24 Posts
6-slotted Jugg would probably look like Boots of Travel, Butterfly, MKB, Manta Style, Battle Fury, Satanic. This assumes you are keeping the Battle Fury for pushing. If it goes past that you might swap an Abyssal Blade or Divine Rapier in. | ||
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