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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 544

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Mataza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany5364 Posts
July 30 2013 05:36 GMT
#10861
I wouldn't exactly call it easy.


To me it also feels very awkward to play weaver from behind in that way, so I can't tell you anything positive about him in 1v3 lanes. Underfarmed weaver has to be a lot more cautious, because of non-existent or very late linkens sphere/bkb and because all your use will come from your spells if you're underfarmed. Also your manapool will be tighter than usual.
But if your enemies do a bad trilane, anything can happen
If nobody hates you, you´re doing something wrong. However someone hating you doesn´t make you right
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 30 2013 05:39 GMT
#10862
Weaver is good 1v2 and against weak 1v3s.

Against typical trilanes seen in pro games he shouldn't solo, at least not hard lane. He can be a 1v3 safe lane solo if you're trying to dodge the aggressive trilane.
Moderator
Rodberd
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany531 Posts
July 30 2013 09:15 GMT
#10863
how would you describe the difference between 5th and 4th position?
is it like:
5th = buy wards, dust etc pp needed and stack/pull camps
4th = get arcanes, mek other needed items

or how would you set their tasks?

im asking because i started to join the TLIHs (im I got meepo'wned) and feel sometimes quite useless because i have no real idea what to do next.
Ooooh, look at it go
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8947 Posts
July 30 2013 09:24 GMT
#10864
only difference is if 4th and 5th both have an opportunity to get money, the 4th takes it instead of the 5th. other than that there is no difference in their tasks, aside from the tasks specific to them due to heroes. its not like 4th must buy arcanes/mek etc and 5th must buy wards,dust etc
4ths buy arcanes (usually not mek since they wont afford it), drums etc BECAUSE they get more money than the 5th position. 5th positions only usually buy wards/smokes/dust etc BECAUSE thats all their income allows for.
Lexia
Profile Joined December 2011
Philippines10 Posts
July 30 2013 09:54 GMT
#10865
I recently lost to Death Prophet mid, as Shadow Fiend. Is this normal? What should I do against these types of heroes as SF in the laning stage?
:Db
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8947 Posts
July 30 2013 13:38 GMT
#10866
you definitely should not be losing that lane. death prophet has average damage and mediocre attack animation/missile speed. by lvl 3 you should be out last hitting her like crazy. her only strength is she has a nuke which is much more spammable than you, but she cant really kill you with it. only hope for her is to outregen you, but thats very hard because its quite hard to beat shadowfiend to a rune without a disable/blink. also theres bottle crowing.
as a shadowfiend, you also have the bonus that you can kill her from full hp if shes out of position quite easily from lvl 5. couple of right hits + 2 razes and she is either dead or on such little hp she has to back anyway
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 30 2013 14:44 GMT
#10867
A Death Prophet with better fundamentals than you will probably win (e.g. better lasthitting, better creep control), but the lane is winnable like evilfatsh1t said.
Moderator
Louis8k8
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada285 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-30 15:16:26
July 30 2013 15:15 GMT
#10868
New player here. How do I offlane with clockwerk against more than 1 opponent? All I manage to do is have mediocre farm with rocket flares and not die. But I can hardly get any advantage when I am so easily ganked and constantly denied creep.

When do I start roaming? After lv6 or after a specific weapon?

Example would be against CK+wisp or DK+veno
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-30 15:52:47
July 30 2013 15:51 GMT
#10869
On July 31 2013 00:15 Louis8k8 wrote:
New player here. How do I offlane with clockwerk against more than 1 opponent? All I manage to do is have mediocre farm with rocket flares and not die. But I can hardly get any advantage when I am so easily ganked and constantly denied creep.

When do I start roaming? After lv6 or after a specific weapon?

Example would be against CK+wisp or DK+veno

Offlane clock loses the lane, pretty much. Generally, you get level 1 cogs, and cog the creeps twice on their way to lane in the first wave so you can have the lane as close as possible to your tower. Often, you will just have to sit as close to XP range as possible, and try to get a few last hits with rocket flare (usually keep this at level 1, and max your battery assault, as this makes your ganking power a lot stronger at level 6.) If you force the other team's lane to constantly force you out of XP range by harassing you / trying to gank you instead of accomplishing other goals (clock is pretty solid 1v1 due to the power of battery assault and a level 1 cogs), you are accomplishing quite a lot.

Knowing when to roam is pretty situational with this hero, but usually you want to at least wait until you are 6 before you initiate a gank (clock is one of the best heroes to gank mid with due to the absurd range of his ultimate). Use your judgement to know when and where to roam - sometimes if you can keep a 1v1 lane where you have kill potential with clock while the other's teams support is roaming, that is best. Not always though - sometimes you'll want to tp to another lane to initiate a gank. A handful of games with Clock will tell you what is best.

Traditional Clock builds will just pick up brown boots, usually a bottle to help with mana (maybe a bracer, though I don't see drums as often), eventually into some combination of Treads, bottle, Forcestaff, and Ghost Scepter. A lot of clocks favor getting Aghs, which I think is a bit mediocre, but its not bad per se.
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PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
July 30 2013 15:58 GMT
#10870
On July 31 2013 00:15 Louis8k8 wrote:
New player here. How do I offlane with clockwerk against more than 1 opponent? All I manage to do is have mediocre farm with rocket flares and not die. But I can hardly get any advantage when I am so easily ganked and constantly denied creep.

When do I start roaming? After lv6 or after a specific weapon?

Example would be against CK+wisp or DK+veno

You are playing it right.
You arnt expected to get amazing farm, your expected to hit six very quickly and start moving around to have an impact on the game. The MOMENT you hit six on the solofflane you are a deadly force, start looking around the map for targets that will die to your full combo, and remember if your opponents are running 2-1-2 lanes then you will be higher level then 4 of their heroes, making many of them easy kills.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
hooahah
Profile Joined October 2011
3752 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-30 16:04:39
July 30 2013 16:00 GMT
#10871
What items should I get on LD? I went Tranquil boots, Phase boots, Maelstorm, AC

at that point I didn't really know what to get. Got Vlads (sustainability), Basher (because tangle isn't enough to make people mad), BoTs (kinda useless in retrospect), Cloak (because fuck magic). Ghost Scepter if against powerful right clickers, force staff??? Mjollnir doesn't seem as useful since Bear is alreay in full rape mode.

Basically, it depends on what I need I guess - more damage/survivability.

How's MKB/Butterfly/Daedelus for the bear?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-30 16:08:07
July 30 2013 16:07 GMT
#10872
MKB/Crit are necessary for your lategame damage output. Butterfly is really inefficient on the Bear because it doesn't benefit from the Agility. Though it might not be bad to get a casual Talisman of Evasion on the Bear which you move to your hero to make Halberd or Butterfly later.

Once you get all that stuff on the bear, you can transition into buying things on the hero. In competitive play, stacking out the bear entirely is usually the safest way to play (and games don't go long enough for you to 6-slot the Bear anyway), but in pubs, buying some items for your hero earlier isn't bad. Basically after your Bear has everything necessary, normal Agi carry stuff can be used to fill slots on your hero.
Moderator
Mataza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany5364 Posts
July 30 2013 16:14 GMT
#10873
You shouldn't get butterfly on the bear. It gives him 30damage/30as which is as good as shadowblade.
Maybe as situational 6th item.

You could clarify which item you get on your hero and which on your bear. You seem to talk about your bear when you consider mjollnir, but you also mentioned ghost scepter which you definitely shouldn't get on your bear.

My preference would be to get a heart of tarrasque for the druid, and start using him to right click too.
If you're dedicated to using just your bear for safety reasons, get daedalus and/or mkb on the bear. With high attackspeed from ac/mjollnir, your bear should be able to melt towers incredibly fast.
If nobody hates you, you´re doing something wrong. However someone hating you doesn´t make you right
hooahah
Profile Joined October 2011
3752 Posts
July 30 2013 16:23 GMT
#10874
On July 31 2013 01:14 Mataza wrote:
You shouldn't get butterfly on the bear. It gives him 30damage/30as which is as good as shadowblade.
Maybe as situational 6th item.

You could clarify which item you get on your hero and which on your bear. You seem to talk about your bear when you consider mjollnir, but you also mentioned ghost scepter which you definitely shouldn't get on your bear.

My preference would be to get a heart of tarrasque for the druid, and start using him to right click too.
If you're dedicated to using just your bear for safety reasons, get daedalus and/or mkb on the bear. With high attackspeed from ac/mjollnir, your bear should be able to melt towers incredibly fast.


that's the thing though, the Bear melted towers with only a Maelstorm. Seems kind of a waste to get more damage when he's already hitting like a truck. And yeah, I mentioned the Ghost Scepter for the Druid.

casual talisman of evasion sounds better than the Butterfly, that's what I had in mind when I thought of the butterfly. Neat.
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
July 30 2013 17:06 GMT
#10875
On July 31 2013 01:23 hooahah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 01:14 Mataza wrote:
You shouldn't get butterfly on the bear. It gives him 30damage/30as which is as good as shadowblade.
Maybe as situational 6th item.

You could clarify which item you get on your hero and which on your bear. You seem to talk about your bear when you consider mjollnir, but you also mentioned ghost scepter which you definitely shouldn't get on your bear.

My preference would be to get a heart of tarrasque for the druid, and start using him to right click too.
If you're dedicated to using just your bear for safety reasons, get daedalus and/or mkb on the bear. With high attackspeed from ac/mjollnir, your bear should be able to melt towers incredibly fast.


that's the thing though, the Bear melted towers with only a Maelstorm. Seems kind of a waste to get more damage when he's already hitting like a truck. And yeah, I mentioned the Ghost Scepter for the Druid.

casual talisman of evasion sounds better than the Butterfly, that's what I had in mind when I thought of the butterfly. Neat.

There's definitely a point in time where your bear needs to have more damage output - obviously it can melt tower, but the DPS against opposing carries really starts to suffer.

Traditional builds I do are:
Maelstrom (or radiance) -> AC (maybe a vlads as well,depends) -> Basher (ghost scepter on main druid, if applicable) -> MKB (or crit if no Butterfly / dodge hero) -> Second Basher on Druid (depends, I might switch this out for another dps item for the bear).

After that, you start getting a bit silly, but it gets pretty situational. Half of what makes LD strong in the lategame is his ability to lock down mobile carries, and is lack of need to build a lot of EHP items.
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TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 30 2013 17:15 GMT
#10876
Basher can usually go after MKB or Crit, though it's pretty situational.
Moderator
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
July 30 2013 17:25 GMT
#10877
What are some good first items on Sniper? Some friends that I play with seem to rush Shadowblade on him by default, but that seems pretty bad.

How would a hard carry 6-slotted Juggernaut build look like?

Louis8k8
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada285 Posts
July 30 2013 17:30 GMT
#10878
On July 31 2013 00:51 Comeh wrote:
Offlane clock loses the lane, pretty much. Generally, you get level 1 cogs, and cog the creeps twice on their way to lane in the first wave so you can have the lane as close as possible to your tower. Often, you will just have to sit as close to XP range as possible, and try to get a few last hits with rocket flare (usually keep this at level 1, and max your battery assault, as this makes your ganking power a lot stronger at level 6.) If you force the other team's lane to constantly force you out of XP range by harassing you / trying to gank you instead of accomplishing other goals (clock is pretty solid 1v1 due to the power of battery assault and a level 1 cogs), you are accomplishing quite a lot.

Knowing when to roam is pretty situational with this hero, but usually you want to at least wait until you are 6 before you initiate a gank (clock is one of the best heroes to gank mid with due to the absurd range of his ultimate). Use your judgement to know when and where to roam - sometimes if you can keep a 1v1 lane where you have kill potential with clock while the other's teams support is roaming, that is best. Not always though - sometimes you'll want to tp to another lane to initiate a gank. A handful of games with Clock will tell you what is best.


On July 31 2013 00:58 PassiveAce wrote:
You are playing it right.
You arnt expected to get amazing farm, your expected to hit six very quickly and start moving around to have an impact on the game. The MOMENT you hit six on the solofflane you are a deadly force, start looking around the map for targets that will die to your full combo, and remember if your opponents are running 2-1-2 lanes then you will be higher level then 4 of their heroes, making many of them easy kills.


Thanks for responses! It really helps me get an idea of what situation's normal and what is falling behind.
Oukka
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Finland1683 Posts
July 30 2013 17:32 GMT
#10879
On July 31 2013 02:25 Whole wrote:
What are some good first items on Sniper? Some friends that I play with seem to rush Shadowblade on him by default, but that seems pretty bad.

How would a hard carry 6-slotted Juggernaut build look like?



Shadow blade offers him an escape as well as an ability for solo pickoffs. I guess Manta could be an option if you don't want Shadow Blade. If you are forced to go BKB first you are pretty much done for, Sniper needs attack speed and damage as well as mobility, none of which BKB gives.
I play children's card games and watch a lot of dota, CS and HS
Evisser
Profile Joined November 2012
United States24 Posts
July 30 2013 17:33 GMT
#10880
For Sniper manta style and life steal are generally good. Shadow Blade can be good, but most people use it as an escape which leads them to not contributing much to any fight.

6-slotted Jugg would probably look like Boots of Travel, Butterfly, MKB, Manta Style, Battle Fury, Satanic. This assumes you are keeping the Battle Fury for pushing. If it goes past that you might swap an Abyssal Blade or Divine Rapier in.
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