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On July 29 2013 05:07 ChunderBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 04:14 Ryndika wrote:
When I play AM and battlefury would come later than 20m, what are good alternatives? Assuming we are losing t3 towers and rax are in dange and enemy team is fat. It gets awkward at that point because you were already building Bfury and probably already have a RoH and one of the swords or something... You better finish it than starting on a whole different item. Or if you are really really desperate you can go straight for Manta, another alternative is make a Vanguard out of ur RoH and then get a Basher or something.
I don't agree. Battlefury does one thing: let you farm faster. In practice its an item that gives you damage later. If they are pushing T3, you should absolutely abandon all hopes of getting that battlefury and start getting items which gives you damage -now- rather than later, because at that point you either defend and make a comeback, or there wont be a "later".
A broadsword builds into both a crystalis and a blademail, depending on what they have that might be a good idea. You can't do much with claymore if you have that unfortunately. Shadow blade doesn't really do anything on AM 
I'd aim at a yasha and then over to a manta too. It gives a lot of damage for its price, not to mention the movement speed is really nifty.
edit: oh, and yes, if you see the game stalling, go ahead and return to that battlefury. Some people like to say its useless after 20 min mark or something, which is pure bullshit. Its the best farming tool in the game on the best farming hero. Even if you get it at 30 min mark its worth it if the game ends up lasting for 10-20 min longer.
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BF is especially good on AM thanks to the mana regen, which lets you spam blink. Without it you simply won't have the mana to blink consistently, which doesn't let you farm as fast (AM's greatest strength)
anyhoo - just played my first game of QoP. Didn't expect it to go well but I got DEMOLISHED. I'm half of mind that it's because I had no rune wards, no flying courier and the lag (qq I know) which let the enemy puck win mid, but still. Bad, bad game. I also want to blame the enemy lineup on just being bullshit. Puck, Bloodseeker and LS. Am I just imagining Qop being a bad pick vs them?
I also had no idea that her poison skill required me to be so close to the enemy hero..I thought you could use that from way, way far.
I probably won't ever play her again >_>
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On July 28 2013 17:26 Rodberd wrote:
there arent many heros who can go even with OD, and i dont think there is one who beats him.
LD is one of the few who are "better" against OD than others because of his bear.
still LD wont be able to roll over OD but he still has some advantages over other heros than normally would go mid.
theory-crafting:
you could try to outrange him with heros lke WR or Sniper. maybe when you have a chen or ench in your team they could use a creep to harrass him whenever he shows up (harpy-storm-thingy).
edit:
seems dota is messed up after the latest patch. any idea how to fix it?
because seems not all ppl are affected by this, since some freinds are online and i see Jeyo's stream too.
validating the dota-files didnt help here.
WR should lose horribly.
OD vs Sniper depends on the first few levels. Sniper can do well once he gets levels in take aim and something like phase boots for the base damage, but that shouldnt really happen. He has below average base damage, while OD has some of the highest base damage and starting armor in the game for a ranged hero. Unless you mess up or dont deny enough you should be able to completely crush the first minutes of the game and just snowball the lane from there.
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On July 29 2013 06:06 hooahah wrote:
BF is especially good on AM thanks to the mana regen, which lets you spam blink. Without it you simply won't have the mana to blink consistently, which doesn't let you farm as fast (AM's greatest strength)
anyhoo - just played my first game of QoP. Didn't expect it to go well but I got DEMOLISHED. I'm half of mind that it's because I had no rune wards, no flying courier and the lag (qq I know) which let the enemy puck win mid, but still. Bad, bad game. I also want to blame the enemy lineup on just being bullshit. Puck, Bloodseeker and LS. Am I just imagining Qop being a bad pick vs them?
I also had no idea that her poison skill required me to be so close to the enemy hero..I thought you could use that from way, way far.
I probably won't ever play her again >_>
Bloodseeker can give you a bit of a hard time, but shouldn't be too difficult to deal with if you're mid and he's not - you should have some stat items and levels on him before he has a chance to ult you, and if you're ahead by as much as you should be it shouldn't be able to do that much damage to you. Getting caught in a bad place by it can still be ugly but such is the case on any hero.
Puck vs Qop mid isn't a bad matchup by any means - it is close enough that not being able to get runes or bottlecrow might give you some serious issues, all other things being equal, but in and of itself the matchup both in mid and in the rest of the game is really even.
Naix you really shouldn't have that many problems with - you can kite kite kite kite him for literally ever with blink and shadow strike, and rage won't let him get close enough to you to deal the damage he needs to kill you. This one's definitely in your head  rage can give you some problems in not being able to burst him down, but ganking him you can totally just wait it out and keep up with blink, and he still shouldn't be able to destroy you at any point unless he's ultra-fat.
Don't let it get you down =) she's an awesome hero, but she requires a bit of finesse to play right.
EDIT: as for the post above... OD vs Sniper mid should probably be a vicious rape in favour of the OD on literally all fronts - he shouldn't be able to get a lasthit ever in lane, even once he gets up a couple of items and levels. His base damage is like almost 30 below OD's, and once OD gets a couple astrals he will actually be 30 below. Level 5 on the OD makes it so he does actually twice as much damage as Sniper with one astral - it's rough.
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United States47024 Posts
I also had no idea that her poison skill required me to be so close to the enemy hero..I thought you could use that from way, way far.
The range on Shadow Strike is really low, but it has a long animation and slow projectile, so the motion buffer combined with the travel time make the range feel really long.
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if you're getting raxed on am at 20 minutes there's not very much you can do
farm the other side of the map for your bfury
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On July 29 2013 06:19 Cyx. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 06:06 hooahah wrote:
BF is especially good on AM thanks to the mana regen, which lets you spam blink. Without it you simply won't have the mana to blink consistently, which doesn't let you farm as fast (AM's greatest strength)
anyhoo - just played my first game of QoP. Didn't expect it to go well but I got DEMOLISHED. I'm half of mind that it's because I had no rune wards, no flying courier and the lag (qq I know) which let the enemy puck win mid, but still. Bad, bad game. I also want to blame the enemy lineup on just being bullshit. Puck, Bloodseeker and LS. Am I just imagining Qop being a bad pick vs them?
I also had no idea that her poison skill required me to be so close to the enemy hero..I thought you could use that from way, way far.
I probably won't ever play her again >_> + Show Spoiler +Bloodseeker can give you a bit of a hard time, but shouldn't be too difficult to deal with if you're mid and he's not - you should have some stat items and levels on him before he has a chance to ult you, and if you're ahead by as much as you should be it shouldn't be able to do that much damage to you. Getting caught in a bad place by it can still be ugly but such is the case on any hero. Puck vs Qop mid isn't a bad matchup by any means - it is close enough that not being able to get runes or bottlecrow might give you some serious issues, all other things being equal, but in and of itself the matchup both in mid and in the rest of the game is really even. Naix you really shouldn't have that many problems with - you can kite kite kite kite him for literally ever with blink and shadow strike, and rage won't let him get close enough to you to deal the damage he needs to kill you. This one's definitely in your head rage can give you some problems in not being able to burst him down, but ganking him you can totally just wait it out and keep up with blink, and he still shouldn't be able to destroy you at any point unless he's ultra-fat. Don't let it get you down =) she's an awesome hero, but she requires a bit of finesse to play right. EDIT: as for the post above... OD vs Sniper mid should probably be a vicious rape in favour of the OD on literally all fronts - he shouldn't be able to get a lasthit ever in lane, even once he gets up a couple of items and levels. His base damage is like almost 30 below OD's, and once OD gets a couple astrals he will actually be 30 below. Level 5 on the OD makes it so he does actually twice as much damage as Sniper with one astral - it's rough.
yeah, I figured as much. Just got unlucky a few times with BS rupture by having TP on CD. Thanks for the post.
My biggest problem was being silenced. Being silenced usually sucks but being silenced on QoP was a fucking death sentance, nothing I can do then
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any way to beat a PL KotL lane, or you just need to abuse their lack of CC and gank them heavily?
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On July 29 2013 14:08 Whole wrote:
any way to beat a PL KotL lane, or you just need to abuse their lack of CC and gank them heavily?
You cant outlast a PL/KOTL lane. Yes you need to gank them heavily to beat that lane. The PL every 6sec nuke is unstoppable in a prolong engagement scenario. Only way to stop that is to kill them.
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I've been reading up some Drow guides because I find her pretty fun to play, but apparently she's not used competitively? Is this still the case? Is she still banned in CM? Is CM the "ranked" for Dota 2?
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On July 29 2013 16:24 Incognoto wrote:
I've been reading up some Drow guides because I find her pretty fun to play, but apparently she's not used competitively? Is this still the case? Is she still banned in CM? Is CM the "ranked" for Dota 2?
CM is the appropriate mode to play competitive DotA, but if you solo queue CM, it's pretty bad (captain picks troll picks)...so only play it with a stack.
I don't think she's used competitively because she's really easy to gank and focus down for such a late game carry.
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How does Chilling Touch and Flak Cannon interact?
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Each shot from the flak receives the buff, so with level 1 chilling touch all charges are used up with one salvo from gyro if you hit 3+ targets, but only 3 get the buff. I don't know how it decides which shots get the buff when there are more targets than chilling-touch instances.
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On July 29 2013 16:37 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 16:24 Incognoto wrote:
I've been reading up some Drow guides because I find her pretty fun to play, but apparently she's not used competitively? Is this still the case? Is she still banned in CM? Is CM the "ranked" for Dota 2? CM is the appropriate mode to play competitive DotA, but if you solo queue CM, it's pretty bad (captain picks troll picks)...so only play it with a stack. I don't think she's used competitively because she's really easy to gank and focus down for such a late game carry.
What's stack? Pardon me, I've played like 20 games total I think and only all-pick.
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On July 29 2013 18:18 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 16:37 Whole wrote:On July 29 2013 16:24 Incognoto wrote:
I've been reading up some Drow guides because I find her pretty fun to play, but apparently she's not used competitively? Is this still the case? Is she still banned in CM? Is CM the "ranked" for Dota 2? CM is the appropriate mode to play competitive DotA, but if you solo queue CM, it's pretty bad (captain picks troll picks)...so only play it with a stack. I don't think she's used competitively because she's really easy to gank and focus down for such a late game carry. What's stack? Pardon me, I've played like 20 games total I think and only all-pick.
A stack is a group of people queuing together. Only play CM with a bunch of friends is what he's saying.
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On July 29 2013 18:18 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 16:37 Whole wrote:On July 29 2013 16:24 Incognoto wrote:
I've been reading up some Drow guides because I find her pretty fun to play, but apparently she's not used competitively? Is this still the case? Is she still banned in CM? Is CM the "ranked" for Dota 2? CM is the appropriate mode to play competitive DotA, but if you solo queue CM, it's pretty bad (captain picks troll picks)...so only play it with a stack. I don't think she's used competitively because she's really easy to gank and focus down for such a late game carry. What's stack? Pardon me, I've played like 20 games total I think and only all-pick.
Firstly, a stack is when you matchmake with more than just yourself. I believe Incognoto means that you should play CM if you have 4 other people to play with.
CM stands for Captain's Mode and is where you pick and ban heroes to form a cohesive lineup and hopefully block the enemy's. It is the format used in almost every tournament and professional teams will pretty much always play against each other in this mode. You can public matchmake in this mode if you want a slightly more professional standard for your pubs, but it's far from the "real thing".
Drow is not excluded from Captain's Mode at the moment and yes, she's not used competitively and has not been virtually since Dota 2's launch. Of course she's had her moments in Dota 1 and we can only assume she will be buffed at some point to be viable (hopefully not overpowered, as she was 6-10 months or so ago -this was why she was removed at the time).
I can't say why she's never picked with absolute certainty, seeing as I don't play in the pro scene, but I do have what I think to be correct assumptions. She is useless besides farming in the laning stages (at least until she hits level 6), so she is very dependent on strong supports and (perhaps not always) a defensive trilane. Having no stun is a drawback, but certainly not unheard of; the same goes for the fact that she has no area of effect damage. Finally, all she ever does is right click.
This is perhaps tolerable if she outdid other carries in ways, but sadly at the moment, she doesn't really. She is one of the weakest carries in lane, loses in late game to some other hard carries and has no AOE or super mobility to assist with farming. About the only thing she does do is hit ridiculously hard in mid-late and stops some enemies from being able to escape. Sadly this makes her extremely limited and highly situational (because she is so demanding of a lot of factors), but if she can snowball in the mid game, Drow is deadly. I wouldn't call her terrible, just highly situational.
Hopefully I've shed some light on the situation.
Edit: I should also mention she has no escape, NEEDS BKB in high-level and Ghost Scepter/Ethereal Blade/Heaven's Halberd makes her just stand there.
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Don't play CM until you have at least a few hundred games and are comfortable with a bunch of heroes. Nothings more annoying for the drafter than getting teamed with someone who doesnt know wat theyre doing or can only play like 3 heroes competently.
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On July 29 2013 09:24 Dead9 wrote:
if you're getting raxed on am at 20 minutes there's not very much you can do
farm the other side of the map for your bfury
Yeah, this heroe is situationally useless.
Concerning drow in progames, I remember seeing her in a dual aggressive lane with a visage, it was a weird laning phase. They picked her for the slow and the silence, they mostly disturbed the ennemies carry farm and drow was not played as a carry but a sort of utility heroe with max silence 1st if I remember correctly then slow. It can be a very situtional pick in pro games. Maybe with something like lycan, visage and enigma and the ennemy lacks of AoE for facerushing towers :D
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On July 29 2013 21:01 Aisikle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 18:18 Incognoto wrote:On July 29 2013 16:37 Whole wrote:On July 29 2013 16:24 Incognoto wrote:
I've been reading up some Drow guides because I find her pretty fun to play, but apparently she's not used competitively? Is this still the case? Is she still banned in CM? Is CM the "ranked" for Dota 2? CM is the appropriate mode to play competitive DotA, but if you solo queue CM, it's pretty bad (captain picks troll picks)...so only play it with a stack. I don't think she's used competitively because she's really easy to gank and focus down for such a late game carry. What's stack? Pardon me, I've played like 20 games total I think and only all-pick. Firstly, a stack is when you matchmake with more than just yourself. I believe Incognoto means that you should play CM if you have 4 other people to play with. CM stands for Captain's Mode and is where you pick and ban heroes to form a cohesive lineup and hopefully block the enemy's. It is the format used in almost every tournament and professional teams will pretty much always play against each other in this mode. You can public matchmake in this mode if you want a slightly more professional standard for your pubs, but it's far from the "real thing". Drow is not excluded from Captain's Mode at the moment and yes, she's not used competitively and has not been virtually since Dota 2's launch. Of course she's had her moments in Dota 1 and we can only assume she will be buffed at some point to be viable (hopefully not overpowered, as she was 6-10 months or so ago -this was why she was removed at the time). I can't say why she's never picked with absolute certainty, seeing as I don't play in the pro scene, but I do have what I think to be correct assumptions. She is useless besides farming in the laning stages (at least until she hits level 6), so she is very dependent on strong supports and (perhaps not always) a defensive trilane. Having no stun is a drawback, but certainly not unheard of; the same goes for the fact that she has no area of effect damage. Finally, all she ever does is right click. This is perhaps tolerable if she outdid other carries in ways, but sadly at the moment, she doesn't really. She is one of the weakest carries in lane, loses in late game to some other hard carries and has no AOE or super mobility to assist with farming. About the only thing she does do is hit ridiculously hard in mid-late and stops some enemies from being able to escape. Sadly this makes her extremely limited and highly situational (because she is so demanding of a lot of factors), but if she can snowball in the mid game, Drow is deadly. I wouldn't call her terrible, just highly situational. Hopefully I've shed some light on the situation. Edit: I should also mention she has no escape, NEEDS BKB in high-level and Ghost Scepter/Ethereal Blade/Heaven's Halberd makes her just stand there.
That's a pretty complete analysis, thank you for the heads up.
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I haven't been watching nearly as many professional level games as I used to so I'm a little out of it as far as best heroes for what roles, but I've always loved playing the 4/5 in my teams and love playing solo off lane/jungle. I was wondering who the current "best" off laners are.
I know that Sylla and Furion are still pretty decent picks (still in low MMR so knowing how to play Sylla halfway well usually works) and that heroes like Clockwerk tend to be good, but who else should I be focusing on learning and playing well?
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EPT
