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I'm a bit split about shadowblade, but its pretty good.
The problem with sniper is that he is heavily dependent on positioning in teamfights, farming, and pretty much everything - shadowblade on sniper, like a shadowblade on kunkka in some ways (not the damage), allows you to position yourself during a fight to maximize your advantage during team fights. This hero is all about knowing what to be, but again, I always feel awkward building this hero.
The +AS is nice though.
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I like to get shadowblade on heroes that can set up crazy shit with it. Kunkka can set up a devastating aoe combo, all sniper can really do is autoattack a bit and follow up with a ult. But you can do that while building more well rounded stuff that gives mspeed for positioning like yasha and drums.
and, ofc, dust will destroy you especially since the 10% mspeed debuff.
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United States47024 Posts
Yeah the problem with Shadowblade on Sniper is that the real use of the active is for initiating or setting up ganks/solo kills and Sniper doesn't really do any of those things well.
From a pure stats/utility perspective, Wraith Bands/Drums into Manta is more practical, though Shadowblade is still good at the MMR where people are inconsistent about buying detection.
6-slot Juggernaut is pretty impractical to talk about because of how many routes there are to getting there. You'll see a lot of different ways to end up with 6 major items on Juggernaut depending on what people got along the way.
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On July 31 2013 02:47 TheYango wrote: From a pure stats/utility perspective, Wraith Bands/Drums into Manta is more practical, though Shadowblade is still good at the MMR where people are inconsistent about buying detection.
Well yea, it seems that me and my friends advanced to the MMR where we can reasonably expect invis detection...but all of us are still clinging on to a few bad low-level pub habits.
6-slot Juggernaut is pretty impractical to talk about because of how many routes there are to getting there. You'll see a lot of different ways to end up with 6 major items on Juggernaut depending on what people got along the way.
I suppose I should've just asked what I really wanted to know. I just don't know what items are actually good on carry Juggernaut. I seem to be stuck in the same situation with Juggernaut where we'll get a huge advantage but not being able to break tier 3s, so the Jugg has to transition into a late game oriented build (and hopefully hit an earlier big item timing for the win). But really, the only good late game item for Jugg I can think of is Butterfly. Of course, MKB is good versus evasion, but are there any optimal damage choices for Jugg besides Butterfly? Or is it actually entirely situational?
I know all items should be thought of as a game by game basis, but I'm trying to find the item for Jugg in the situations where he just need more straight up damage.
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On July 31 2013 03:08 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 02:47 TheYango wrote: From a pure stats/utility perspective, Wraith Bands/Drums into Manta is more practical, though Shadowblade is still good at the MMR where people are inconsistent about buying detection. Well yea, it seems that me and my friends advanced to the MMR where we can reasonably expect invis detection...but all of us are still clinging on to a few bad low-level pub habits. Show nested quote +6-slot Juggernaut is pretty impractical to talk about because of how many routes there are to getting there. You'll see a lot of different ways to end up with 6 major items on Juggernaut depending on what people got along the way. I suppose I should've just asked what I really wanted to know. I just don't know what items are actually good on carry Juggernaut. I seem to be stuck in the same situation with Juggernaut where we'll get a huge advantage but not being able to break tier 3s, so the Jugg has to transition into a late game oriented build (and hopefully hit an earlier big item timing for the win). But really, the only good late game item for Jugg I can think of is Butterfly. Of course, MKB is good versus evasion, but are there any optimal damage choices for Jugg after Butterfly? Or is it actually entirely situational? I know all items should be thought of as a game by game basis, but I'm trying to find the item for Jugg in the situations where he just need more straight up damage after Butterfly.
Manta is very important for breaking tier 3s on low range/melee heroes.
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On July 31 2013 03:08 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 02:47 TheYango wrote: From a pure stats/utility perspective, Wraith Bands/Drums into Manta is more practical, though Shadowblade is still good at the MMR where people are inconsistent about buying detection. Well yea, it seems that me and my friends advanced to the MMR where we can reasonably expect invis detection...but all of us are still clinging on to a few bad low-level pub habits. Show nested quote +6-slot Juggernaut is pretty impractical to talk about because of how many routes there are to getting there. You'll see a lot of different ways to end up with 6 major items on Juggernaut depending on what people got along the way. I suppose I should've just asked what I really wanted to know. I just don't know what items are actually good on carry Juggernaut. I seem to be stuck in the same situation with Juggernaut where we'll get a huge advantage but not being able to break tier 3s, so the Jugg has to transition into a late game oriented build (and hopefully hit an earlier big item timing for the win). But really, the only good late game item for Jugg I can think of is Butterfly. Of course, MKB is good versus evasion, but are there any optimal damage choices for Jugg besides Butterfly? Or is it actually entirely situational? I know all items should be thought of as a game by game basis, but I'm trying to find the item for Jugg in the situations where he just need more straight up damage.
Use your Healing Ward, Abyssal Blade is the best dmg item you can get. I don't really play him as a 1... I usually aim for something like Phase/Drums/Diffusal/Manta. Then get something like Butterfly/Scepter/Abyssal Blade. Roam early on and go ham. The Battlefury farm Jug is really awful IMO.
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On July 31 2013 02:44 PassiveAce wrote: I like to get shadowblade on heroes that can set up crazy shit with it. Kunkka can set up a devastating aoe combo Hit everyone with tidebringer = combo? Because his other spells benefit jack all from a shadowblade, with the huge range and delay they have.
Also hardcarry juggernaut is questionable. He has only crit as a dps tool and his only killing tool is his ult. For kills without that he lacks lockdown or mobility skills. Also you can't really skip BKB if going classical dps, as your bladefury is not a substitute. I really like aghanims on him because it makes his strong ulti even stronger. Something like travels, manta, agha, satanic +2 items would be a suitable lategame for juggernaut imho. Can slowly push high ground towers with manta, can take teamfights with agha and healing ward.
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United States47024 Posts
Agha on Jugg is really situational. It's great when you have a level advantage, but it's very quickly worthless if you're behind. The main thing is you have to get it before Ghost Scepters are out, because Ghost Scepter stops the ult, so once they're on the table, it's not all that likely that those last 3 jumps will necessarily finish.
I don't like the idea of suggesting a late Agha. It has to be one of your first 2 major items if you get it at all.
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On July 31 2013 03:19 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 02:44 PassiveAce wrote: I like to get shadowblade on heroes that can set up crazy shit with it. Kunkka can set up a devastating aoe combo Hit everyone with tidebringer = combo? Because his other spells benefit jack all from a shadowblade, with the huge range and delay they have. Also hardcarry juggernaut is questionable. He has only crit as a dps tool and his only killing tool is his ult. For kills without that he lacks lockdown or mobility skills. Also you can't really skip BKB if going classical dps, as your bladefury is not a substitute. I really like aghanims on him because it makes his strong ulti even stronger. Something like travels, manta, agha, satanic +2 items would be a suitable lategame for juggernaut imho. Can slowly push high ground towers with manta, can take teamfights with agha and healing ward. shadowblade gives you the element of surprise as well as helping you get in to a position to use your spells unless they are making extremely heavy use of sentries. I use it for getting into positioning for a combo as much as I use it to fish for a lucky crit or w/e.
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My sniper build:
Treads->Helm of Dominator->Yasha->MKB->Finish Manta
Dominator for stacking ancients, or jungling safely. You need the life steal anyway, and the armor and damage help. Yasha is very important for positioning, and allows you to kite using stutter step Foxer micro, MKB should hit at the time you'll be sieging their towers, and it synergizes very well with headshot. The never missing part especially is nice since it removes some limits as to where you can position yourself safely and still get shots off. Manta + MKB will allow sniper to sit on the low ground and outrange a tower to poke it down safely.
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United States47024 Posts
True Strike doesn't work on towers anymore. That was a bug that got fixed.
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If a person has a deniable debuff placed on them but also has an undenieable debuff placed on them (battle hunger + doom) can they be denied?
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.
I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?
I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me.
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On July 31 2013 04:14 CrtBalorda wrote: If a person has a deniable debuff placed on them but also has an undenieable debuff placed on them (battle hunger + doom) can they be denied?
they can. as long as they have a debuff thats deniable you can deny them.
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On July 31 2013 04:18 Targe wrote: Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.
I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?
I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me. I don't think you need Mekanism. It is definitely good, but I think it delays Blink Aghs too much. Also you need to swap Aghs and Blink based on the game. If the enemy team is 5 manning, you'll want Aghs before Blink. If you can still blink gank before the enemy starts to 5 man, get the blink first. I think Aghs first is safer if you're unsure. Also I swap Tranquils for Treads after Aghs because it really helps jungling for farming up the Aghs (the Aghs is needed ASAP no matter what build you're doing).
After that just get Hearts and EBlades (most +stats) and a Vlads if you wanna hit a timing.
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On July 31 2013 04:18 Targe wrote: Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.
I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?
I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me. Early mek into blink, with PT's is super good for ganking. But it's situational, generally you just wanna go aghs->blink and then depending on the enemy lineup go for ac/heart/skadi. Heart if it's mostly magical dmg, AC if the enemy team has rly insane -armor and people on your team benefit from it a lot as well. Skadi is an item that's really good vs a lot of physical heroes as it gives the most EHP in that regard. Stacks with geostrike as well so it can be pretty powerful.
Ideally you want someone else to make a vlads/ac/mek but again it's situational and you gotta check the enemy lineup, your lineup and how the game is going on. Eblade can work sometimes too but it's kinda cheesey and I would only get it as a second major item after aghs/blink. It's pretty good vs heavy hitters like PA/void etc.
And you probably shouldn't start with a QB. Meepo does have terrible base dmg but not getting a stout will get you punished unless you have total freefarm. You have pretty good armor but you almost always want a stout or at least a RoP start into tranqs. One thing to note is that, you want to get PTs asap because tranqs when broken really suck with the terrible movement speed. But it's okay because RoR/RoP can be made into a vlads.
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I don't think EBlade is very cheesy after a Heart. It gives the most agility so overall the most damage I believe...and the active is actually quite good to shut down an enemy carry and either catch up with them...or if you're already in range, Poof them for an instant kill. It's definitely a selfish item though lol.
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When playing meepo you have to always remmember that your opponent will always try to kill you before anyone else(99%). Use this to your advantage to bait them in.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On July 31 2013 06:04 Andr3 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 04:18 Targe wrote: Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.
I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?
I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me. Early mek into blink, with PT's is super good for ganking. But it's situational, generally you just wanna go aghs->blink and then depending on the enemy lineup go for ac/heart/skadi. Heart if it's mostly magical dmg, AC if the enemy team has rly insane -armor and people on your team benefit from it a lot as well. Skadi is an item that's really good vs a lot of physical heroes as it gives the most EHP in that regard. Stacks with geostrike as well so it can be pretty powerful. Ideally you want someone else to make a vlads/ac/mek but again it's situational and you gotta check the enemy lineup, your lineup and how the game is going on. Eblade can work sometimes too but it's kinda cheesey and I would only get it as a second major item after aghs/blink. It's pretty good vs heavy hitters like PA/void etc. And you probably shouldn't start with a QB. Meepo does have terrible base dmg but not getting a stout will get you punished unless you have total freefarm. You have pretty good armor but you almost always want a stout or at least a RoP start into tranqs. One thing to note is that, you want to get PTs asap because tranqs when broken really suck with the terrible movement speed. But it's okay because RoR/RoP can be made into a vlads.
On July 31 2013 05:23 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 04:18 Targe wrote: Anyone have any tips on Meepo? I've picked him up real recently.
I'm starting with two branches, quelling blade, tango and circlet -> Tranquils -> Mek -> Treads -> Blink -> Aghs and that's working all right I think, but is there anything more that I wouldn't know about him?
I'm getting to be quite good with the blink+poof combo (TAB +W etc.) and I've read lots of guides but you guys will know better than me. I don't think you need Mekanism. It is definitely good, but I think it delays Blink Aghs too much. Also you need to swap Aghs and Blink based on the game. If the enemy team is 5 manning, you'll want Aghs before Blink. If you can still blink gank before the enemy starts to 5 man, get the blink first. I think Aghs first is safer if you're unsure. Also I swap Tranquils for Treads after Aghs because it really helps jungling for farming up the Aghs (the Aghs is needed ASAP no matter what build you're doing). After that just get Hearts and EBlades (most +stats) and a Vlads if you wanna hit a timing.
Thanks guys! I guess I'll swap to Tranquils -> Treads -> Aghs -> Blink as my default, I was finding my timing window for ganks to be quite small so that's great to know!
I'll drop the QB and move to a Stout as well, I thought his high starting armour would be enough.
Still don't think I'm quite ready to take him -cm yet though.
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How does the backdoor protection system work? I've seen it in action before, but I'm not sure what triggers it.
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