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Nigma Discussion - Page 6

Forum Index > Dota 2 Player & Team Discussion
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 26 Next All
hunter_x
Profile Joined June 2014
Germany2762 Posts
January 22 2020 20:21 GMT
#101
they looked so good in the groupstage, but after that they were shitma again...
GGman
Profile Joined July 2010
Czech Republic143 Posts
January 22 2020 20:22 GMT
#102
Well, why play and draft well when you can play and draft bad? :D

Anyways, I do believe that they'll manage to get to a major or two more, poke their way to TI and it's not like anything else matters...
“Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
Rufus Dupres
Profile Joined December 2018
Germany1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-22 20:30:13
January 22 2020 20:29 GMT
#103
Truly a shitshow today. MC was a non-factor in both series, feels like he is getting to much sacrificed in the games, don't know how often in this tournament, he was at the bottom of the network charts after the laning phase. Maybe the amount of games was finally exhausting them. Hopefully they will recover till next qualifiers.
"The map is black, but I see everything" - Kuro - MegaFon 2018
juuto
Profile Joined January 2014
809 Posts
January 22 2020 20:41 GMT
#104
Gotta try to avoid having shitty days while Nigma is playing a tournament because they do a great job at making it worse.
NInoff
Profile Joined August 2011
Bulgaria1105 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-22 22:09:52
January 22 2020 22:09 GMT
#105
On January 23 2020 05:29 Rufus Dupres wrote:
Truly a shitshow today. MC was a non-factor in both series, feels like he is getting to much sacrificed in the games, don't know how often in this tournament, he was at the bottom of the network charts after the laning phase. Maybe the amount of games was finally exhausting them. Hopefully they will recover till next qualifiers.

Lateley thats their playstyle - MC has to create space for wee and miracle, and even if he has a good start as he had with the BM game, he just plays too aggressiveley and gets cought. After 10 mins in he constantly moves and when some of the ganks fail he just dies 2-3 times in a row then there is nothing else there. If he took the time to farm a blink aghanims on the NS the game would've been different but hey - thats how it always happens - they just don't take things seriously and cosntantly try new stuff... Upper bracket they got outdrafted hard both games the lost - still we all knew things like that will happen, and that they will play TI - thats all that matters.
I adopted the new strategy too - i enjoy other teams playing ( Saving Nigma emotions for TI) - This major i am rooting for Liquid, BeastCoast and Alliance. The most fun watching dota a man can have these days.
hunter_x
Profile Joined June 2014
Germany2762 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-22 22:54:38
January 22 2020 22:54 GMT
#106
yeah i agree NInoff, with Alliance and Liquid there are two other teams in the major that i like. still dissapointed from nigma's performance, but i think they will come back stronger from this. some rest and a good bootcamp can fix these issues;)
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
January 23 2020 01:15 GMT
#107
W33 just doesn't look like he fits. The way kuro drafts, there's clearly a problem because they look like they just wanna play comfort heroes.
hunter_x
Profile Joined June 2014
Germany2762 Posts
January 23 2020 13:58 GMT
#108
guys i am also dissapointed, but dont forget they didn't scrim or bootcamp before the minor. the major was one week after the minor and they had a lot of games to play. they just need more time, and i dont think any player is the "problem".
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
January 30 2020 18:48 GMT
#109
Reminder that OG last year looked far, far worse than Nigma does now
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
hunter_x
Profile Joined June 2014
Germany2762 Posts
January 30 2020 19:03 GMT
#110
true, but people forget fast. now they are the best team of all time, and it's like nigma (old Liquid) never was in the TI grand final...
TomatoBisque
Profile Joined March 2013
United States6290 Posts
January 31 2020 13:50 GMT
#111
for every OG there's a dozen teams that fell apart and disbanded
rip
NInoff
Profile Joined August 2011
Bulgaria1105 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-03 09:12:53
February 03 2020 09:12 GMT
#112
This years True Sight made one thing clear. You just cna not rely anymore on your carry "feelings" for the game. The players are so evenly matched that these days its all about strategy.
So we saw haw OG have a plan for every game, even "we just run at them" is a better strat than - try and farm BKBs and win. Actually Nigma are doing this for years - and its a good strat usually - just split cores, farm one dies others keep farming. But sometimes they get stomped so hard that they look silly. And seems like they are unable to see the difference when they could continue that strat or when they should sit behind a core and bait, trying to take a fight and come back this way.

Especially game two showed me how underprepared Nigma were (are?). Coments like - TA, Tide we win, or Who picks Monkey King mid - its just bad. And then getting stomped hard mean that there is something major missing there. Also i am very very dissappointed by w33, he doesn't bring anything to the team as knowledge. And thats very very important. Having a game plan is essential most games in the past year or two are won during the draft. And shit like pick this hero coz its good this patch are just not good enough - you should have a strategy prepared for every situation - opponent going to aggressive in the first 1-2 picks, then we do this or this, opponent goint way too greedy - then we punish them by that strat, oppponents are going for a lot of sustain - then we do this, things like that. Studying opponents is very very important. We can just see the difference in the drafts and strategy with Heen and now..
And they made it extra hard on them by starting a new ORG, as thats time wasted in management instead of watching replays and studying the game.
So if Nigma don't change their approach to the game they will fail.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-03 13:32:13
February 03 2020 13:30 GMT
#113
On February 03 2020 18:12 NInoff wrote:
This years True Sight made one thing clear. You just cna not rely anymore on your carry "feelings" for the game. The players are so evenly matched that these days its all about strategy.
So we saw haw OG have a plan for every game, even "we just run at them" is a better strat than - try and farm BKBs and win. Actually Nigma are doing this for years - and its a good strat usually - just split cores, farm one dies others keep farming. But sometimes they get stomped so hard that they look silly. And seems like they are unable to see the difference when they could continue that strat or when they should sit behind a core and bait, trying to take a fight and come back this way.

Especially game two showed me how underprepared Nigma were (are?). Coments like - TA, Tide we win, or Who picks Monkey King mid - its just bad. And then getting stomped hard mean that there is something major missing there. Also i am very very dissappointed by w33, he doesn't bring anything to the team as knowledge. And thats very very important. Having a game plan is essential most games in the past year or two are won during the draft. And shit like pick this hero coz its good this patch are just not good enough - you should have a strategy prepared for every situation - opponent going to aggressive in the first 1-2 picks, then we do this or this, opponent goint way too greedy - then we punish them by that strat, oppponents are going for a lot of sustain - then we do this, things like that. Studying opponents is very very important. We can just see the difference in the drafts and strategy with Heen and now..
And they made it extra hard on them by starting a new ORG, as thats time wasted in management instead of watching replays and studying the game.
So if Nigma don't change their approach to the game they will fail.


remember that true sight is cut and edited to tell a story, while there are probably a lot of things going on - for example the 'who picks monkey mid' comment. There's no context in the editing for why w33 said that there, it might be an in joke among the team, or w33 is just fed up of playing vs it (i think no[o]ne picked it against them earlier in the tourney?) or anything we don't know about.

Most of all it makes good tv, particularly in a documentary that is primarily about OG winning, for w33 to sound cocky and then be humbled later.

I'm not saying true sight is trying to be deceitful, i'm just saying that you can't read much into it because you get probably about 2% of the actual communication in the team, cut in a way designed to entertain rather than to inform.
Sapaio
Profile Joined October 2017
Denmark2037 Posts
February 03 2020 19:08 GMT
#114
I cheer for OG, but feel that blaming W33 for takling there own draft up and OG's downis wrong. I remember Ceb takling about how OG did some thing semilar during TI8 and it's simply about you as a team need to go into a game feeling confident. If you feel u lost the draft you half way lost the game. It can look stupid viewing back, but if u think W33 should have said MK is going to crush is better i disagree.
GO OG
NInoff
Profile Joined August 2011
Bulgaria1105 Posts
February 04 2020 07:14 GMT
#115
On February 04 2020 04:08 Sapaio wrote:
I cheer for OG, but feel that blaming W33 for takling there own draft up and OG's downis wrong. I remember Ceb takling about how OG did some thing semilar during TI8 and it's simply about you as a team need to go into a game feeling confident. If you feel u lost the draft you half way lost the game. It can look stupid viewing back, but if u think W33 should have said MK is going to crush is better i disagree.


Im not blaming anyone in perticular. That was just an example. I am blaming the whole team for the lack of full strategy. If your cores feel it - it is not enough anymore, and it will never be consistent as they will be very oftern wrong. As with the w33 example - Who plays Monkey Mid, and then gets crushed by it.
Geisterkarle
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Germany3257 Posts
February 04 2020 11:27 GMT
#116
Well, I don't hink it was the Monkey, but the Tiny that won that lane...
Seriously, I checked the stats:
(Wiki)The International/2019/Statistics
Monkey King was picked 6(!) times in the whole TI9 games! That is not a number that says "that is a great hero to pick"! So w33s "who picks MK?" is quite reasonable!
There can only be one Geisterkarle
MintberryCrunchs
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany462 Posts
February 09 2020 20:50 GMT
#117
At this rate, they (and we) can be glad if they even make it to the minor.

Going 1-1 versus Viking and beeing down 0 - 1 vs Agressive is very disheartening. Those 2 Teams arent even close Tier 2 contenders ...
Rufus Dupres
Profile Joined December 2018
Germany1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-09 21:02:52
February 09 2020 21:00 GMT
#118
Watching Nigma in qualifiers is really frustrating. They already have the much easier group with only Secret as top contender, but still managing to lose games against "pub stacks". They should be at 4:0 like Secret but now they are in desperate need of a win against Secret + a win against aggressive mode to have a shot at the upper bracket. Seems like they do not have any strategy or comfort heroes at all, they are switching their picks back and forth as if they are struggling to find the right composition for their playstyle.

But maybe it is all but a great curve ball by Kuro to keep the opponent's believing they are out of shape and we will see the full power tomorrow and at the playoffs. A vague hope but all what is left actually.
"The map is black, but I see everything" - Kuro - MegaFon 2018
MintberryCrunchs
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany462 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-09 21:29:15
February 09 2020 21:24 GMT
#119
Can they even take a game of Agressive?

Out of shape seems to be an understatement, given the current performance. Im starting to think that they are at a point, where reshuffling completly might be better for this stack of players.
Sometimes in relationships you just end up in a dynamic, where you cant change your ways unless you get massive outside influence and are stuck in bad ways.
Seems to me, thats the case here. They seem to not be able to find any form of Synergy anymore, no matter what or how hard you try.

I dont think this roster will play this TI together tbh.
juuto
Profile Joined January 2014
809 Posts
February 09 2020 21:27 GMT
#120
You put this team against literally any Dota team on the planet and they're going to struggle at this point.
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