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Yeah, Matu showed his skill there. But I think we all know, that Matu is a great player! But DotA is team game! And a player not comfortable with the playstyle of the team and because of that struggeling can thrive in another team, that suits better!
So I think this "kicking Matu was wrong" is bullshit!
This team, now known as Nigma, often plays like they are just gods and brute force their way through their opponents. And yes, they are top players ... but that is not enough in this day and age of DotA! At least when you play against other top teams! The air is pretty thin up there!
And they are their own organization for what ... a few months? They have a lot to do aside just playing. I think, when they "settle down" and fix things and get back to figuring out the patch - which they will do! - Nigma will be at TI, hands down!
Let's look for tomorrow, if they can get to the Minor. Chances look good. And after that they have a month to prepare for that. There will be a completely new game!
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We've had plenty of examples of good teams slumping after some time and never getting back up.But we've also had many examples of teams bouncing back, so with that said, its too early to judge their performance.
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On December 04 2019 06:27 Qualitaetsgarant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2019 04:55 NInoff wrote:
I feel a little sorry for the boys its been a rough 24 hours - i mean being spanked by your former organisation, and 1v5-ed by the guy that you kicked 6 months ago is kind of a lot to take in... I don't feel sorry at all. It was THEIR decision to kick Matumbaman and THEIR decision to leave Liquid. Maybe they should think about this decisionmaking. Btw: So many people said that Matu was the problem and kicking him is the easy solution. I hope that Matu keeps proving they are wrong.
i dont even remember too many people saying Matu was the problem, most agreed that it was done because some change was needed. i think kuro said it too, it was not about his performance. Sometimes roster changes dont work out, you can't know that before. that is the risk you take as a captain, so you cant really say kuro and the boys were wrong with their decision at the time. about them leaving Liquid, it is known that kuro always wanted his own team like Puppey. you can't blame him for that move, after being in Liquid so long. it's easy as outsiders to criticize teams, just remember that you dont know every reason behind those decicions.
i still believe in them of course, they have been in similair situations before and always came back;)
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On December 04 2019 17:08 FreakyDroid wrote:
We've had plenty of examples of good teams slumping after some time and never getting back up.But we've also had many examples of teams bouncing back, so with that said, its too early to judge their performance.
This is pretty much Kuro's for the past 2-3 years. They slump, get back up, and then slump again.
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On December 04 2019 18:27 juuto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2019 17:08 FreakyDroid wrote:
We've had plenty of examples of good teams slumping after some time and never getting back up.But we've also had many examples of teams bouncing back, so with that said, its too early to judge their performance. This is pretty much Kuro's for the past 2-3 years. They slump, get back up, and then slump again.
which top team doesnt though? i literally cant remember a single team in the last few years that was always strong and never had weak phases. Kuro and the boys still won a ton of tournaments including TI...
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Johto4945 Posts
On December 04 2019 04:55 NInoff wrote:
Havent seen nazgul carry a game in a long time... and there is a reason for that.
You should see him at the Team Liquid Utrecht Office Christmas Lan Party 
It is a bit sad to see them go out of the Major Qualifier like this, but there is still the Minor, and there are more Majors to come.
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On December 04 2019 20:43 FO-nTTaX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2019 04:55 NInoff wrote:
Havent seen nazgul carry a game in a long time... and there is a reason for that. You should see him at the Team Liquid Utrecht Office Christmas Lan Party It is a bit said to see them go out of the Major Qualifier like this, but there is still the Minor, and there are more Majors to come.
I'd love that. Next party is pretty close - you can upload some pictures :D
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Kuro did it on purpose.
We all know the team who's on fire thanks to going through qualifiers often wins.
200IQ plays!
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Even if they manage to qualify for this Minor, it's really just not worth it being a fan of them. The issues this team has had for a long while are off the charts and none of it is being addressed properly. I'm not saying I'm giving up on them, I'm just acknowledging that being a fan of this squad a complete fucking shitty experience.
There is absolutely no way there's anything even remotely normal about the way they work as a team.
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Draft problems, lack of synergie and team play, this i the story of miracle is now 1 kuro.
They were lucky to have a short high with w33 during TI, but now its the same story pre the matu kick.
I would never count them out but they need to get their shit together and change their style.
And no w33 is not playing bad, he just has hardly a chance to shine, like matu before.
This is the micracle show and if its now working they get destroyed...
(yeah im a little salty)
Edit: I mean they used to love the aggressive, push and timing attack style, now they play like EG.
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How about Miracle- out MATUMBAMAN in? 
I know this is not happening, but I can imagine that being a better squad
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konadora
Singapore66202 Posts
w33 truly has been underwhelming and feels like he's pulling the entire team down
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On December 06 2019 13:40 konadora wrote:
w33 truly has been underwhelming and feels like he's pulling the entire team down
can not agree, he takes a lot high risk plays but overall he plays a stable and strong mid.
the tempo heroes he is on he plays to its perfection.
For me the big difference to the past is the performance and impact of mind controll and also gh needs to come online again.
I can not compare this team to the team i saw at ti7. gh was kind of a carry with kotl etc. and mindcontroll could fully shine.
it s a new patch and kuro never was fast adapting. he is also a captain that is stuck to some easy predictable draft pattern.
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On December 06 2019 16:18 Anamorph wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2019 13:40 konadora wrote:
w33 truly has been underwhelming and feels like he's pulling the entire team down can not agree, he takes a lot high risk plays but overall he plays a stable and strong mid. the tempo heroes he is on he plays to its perfection. For me the big difference to the past is the performance and impact of mind controll and also gh needs to come online again. I can not compare this team to the team i saw at ti7. gh was kind of a carry with kotl etc. and mindcontroll could fully shine. it s a new patch and kuro never was fast adapting. he is also a captain that is stuck to some easy predictable draft pattern.
Everyone plays bad. They play like they are playing pubs. If we are talking the whole qualifier i've seen miracle roaming alone with no vision when enemy are ahead, with no BB. For example game 2 vs Liquid in the group stages. There were shaker games where MC had a perfect start with shaker and then we never seen him land a single echo. There was a game when GH missed every single roll whith earth spirit. There was games when w33 fed a lot with timbersaw, while he could've avoided death by just clicking Eul's Scepter. There were games when kuro drafted heroes in to ones that hard counter them. Multiple times.
And finally they got outplayed and out fought in a straight fights for two games vs the well known and well established full with experienced people team of Vikin.gg ( Well played by them ).
So like i said before - don't bother trying to understand, just remember - they will play this TI. And they wil tryhard there. Until then things that happened this qualifiers will happen often. No matter if they make it to the minor or not.
However, no matter the reasons playing this bad cna have a negative effect on the team atmosphere... lets hope thats not the case.
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They are really looking sloopy. Have looked at their laning phase and same was looking much better compared to half a year ago where the squad was behind in nearly every game.The team is at least even after the laning phase but afterwards they gave up their lead in both qualifiers in so many games by taking fights either at the enemy shrine or between T1 and T2-towers and could not recover from this deficit.
The decision making, when and where to fight which was always a strength of this squad, looks currently really bad. It always felt like they were not on the same page or as ODPixel said during casting: Are they even in the same teamspeak-lobby?
The drafts looks iffy as well. They keep on picking Morph and Invo although they have been losing several games with this combo. If you are relying on Miracle to carry you, pls ban out the most obvious counter to his hero. I am still not a fan of putting W33 on Invo, he looks lost after the laning phase and falls off so hard.
As I was shouting at this Team at TI during the group stage but have been taught a good lesson not to count them out until its over, I will try to be more positive this time. But hell yeah, it was hurting to watch them in some games.
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I feel like W33 is a good player individually, but he doesnt seem to synergize very well with his teammate. He seems to have played too many pubs in his early dota days, he kind of got a selfish pubby style to his gameplay. Its good for pubs, but as i said, he doesnt synergize well with his teammates and its a problem for nigma imo
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Miracle playing now Tinker in the mid lane and w33 on Ursa in the safe lane. Either they really dont give a shit and just try to have fun or they are trying to switch things up.
w33 just recovered with a triple kill after a devastating 0:6 on Ursa after eleven minutes.
EDIT: And in Game 2, we finally get to see Miracle on the Invoker again.
So...are we back now to Miracle mid? His Invoker was again a joy to watch.
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Magnus is such a broken bullshit hero right now with Aghs and yet Nigma are still not banning it. This game would have been over if not of this hero.
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Kuro stack doing what a Kuro stack does best. Bouncing back from a disaster... I hope this level of play sticks for a while.
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On December 07 2019 02:42 Rufus Dupres wrote:
Magnus is such a broken bullshit hero right now with Aghs and yet Nigma are still not banning it. This game would have been over if not of this hero.
I think Kuro just wants to show that it is not as broken as it seems.
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EPT
