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On June 20 2016 19:40 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2016 16:11 trollcenter wrote:On June 20 2016 06:46 Faruko wrote:On June 20 2016 06:14 trollcenter wrote:On June 20 2016 05:56 LemOn wrote:On June 20 2016 05:14 trollcenter wrote:On June 20 2016 04:41 Rebs wrote:
And the moron who was talking about a "free ticket" to the finals. Well it would only be a free ticket if they were a tier 1 team, which they arent. So I dont see how thats relevant either. Speaking about moronic statements, let's look at yours. 1. Navi is the best tier 2 - arguable. You can't clearly say they are better than Alliance or Fnatic. Unless you don't want to admit a lucky bracket where they meet the first good team in the finals. Wow I guess everyone including Valve inferior to your powerful Dota knowledge  ? Valve reward stable rosters and results, Na'Vi got very lucky with their bracket for good enough results, therefore the invite. By luck or not, they've done what they had to. How does that prove they are better than Fnatic and Alliance? Cause Valve said so? In that case, I'll just smile at you thinking that they're the same invite-worthy caliber as OG, Liquid, Newbee for beating some mediocre tier 2 teams. You know, since you seem to equate invites with real level of skill or something and not other factors. Not like Valve has had subpar invites in other years, right? U MAD BRO ? What's up with this "lel u mad", "Valve proved you wrong" when I didn't show anger or frustration and nothing was proven? You get worked up for nothing. Na'Vi getting invited does not make them better, they'll go there just like at the Manilla Major and hope for some top 10 result. Pretty much like some of the teams coming from qualifiers. We'll see how they do compared to the rest of the tier 2, since the opinion here is that they are clearly at the top of it due to a lucky bracket where they didn't play the best of that tier either. By popular opinion, Na'Vi should probably only finish behind/lose to top 4 teams, we'll see about that. LE: To clarify, best tier 2 teams imo would be Alliance, Fnatic and Vici Reborn on top of them. Vici has a better resume than Na'Vi (won a lan, beat OG and LGD, which is more than what Na'Vi did). Fnatic has 5th-6th at the Majors twice now too. Na'Vi has the achievement of going through not even the best tier 2 teams towards a finals close to TI. NaVi is at the top of tier2 in the context where found themselves at the time. Meaning that they played almost only EU/NA teams and won. No one can say NaVi is better or worse than Fnatic or VG.R because they either played one or no series against each other... One series means nothing. On the one hand, NaVi got at ESL a lucky path to the finals. On the other hand they got the worst possible path at the Major. Fnatic got lucky at the Major and lost to Alliance at ESL (NaVi won twice against [A] in the last month) so they may win NaVi but for that they must play first. VG.R lost at the Major to both [A] and Fnatic and won NaVi at I-League. Would you rather invite Fnatic because they placed well at Shangai and got lucky at Manila but lost to [A] at ESL? Would you rather invite VG.R because they won NaVi two months ago but lost to [A] and Fnatic at the Major? Or would you invite NaVi because they got lucky at ESL and lost to better teams at Manila? In my opinion, it is all the same. Any of three is equally deserving of an invite but there is only one of them in EU. NaVi, VG.R and Fnatic can win/lose to [A] and to each other. The only way to prove it is playing. Top of tier2 for me are: NaVi, VG.R, Fnatic, LGD and [A], they proved it in their respective regions. They can still lose to teams like Vega, Empire, CoL and so on, just because the line that separates them is so thin. Sadly no team of those can hope to beat OG, Liquid or NewBee they way they are playing. I said it before and once again now, I wanna see NaVi play against eastern teams, we already know how they fare in EU/NA. They are not clearly dominant there but they end up winning in the end, at least as of today. Invites are always crap and unneeded. Hopefully Craplve will in the future remove them or reduce them to 1 or 2 max. Given how stacked China and EU are, it would be the fairest thing to do. Edit: You are bringing up stuff two months old, which would be relevant if the scene was stable, but it isn't. VG.R beat OG (when they still weren't as brilliant as they are now) to then lose to [A] ten days ago. NaVi won LGD too and then lost to VG.R but won [A] twice lately and even won one game against OG at Dreamleague one month ago. We can't do 1+1=2 here, it doesn't work like that. You can't blame NaVi for not having the opportunity to face those teams lately.
I would say that teams like Alliance, Virtus Pro, Empire, Col etc. are tier 2. Teams like Navi, LGD, Fnatic, MVP.P, VG.R etc. are tier 1.5. Those two groups are definitely not in the same tier because one is above the other kind of like how the 3 big teams right now are above tier 1.5
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I think Sonneiko should practice his Earth Spirit, he failed many times that game and a strong ES is an advantage they should also have, he is good enough to reach Jerax and Cr1t level.
I believe NaVi will start trying new stuff like Riki and Lion, both heroes have been used lately and to some extent quite successfuly.
ArtStyle is using less often Chen and Ench so I guess its time for him to learn yet another hero, hopefully one that NaVi still doesn't have in its repertoire like Doom, or even BM as he is a good jungler and would open some other picks for them.
OG banned first phase both Io and BM all three games, so NaVi needs new heroes for ArtStyle and GeneRaL.
And maybe after how OG played with them with Kunkka they will go Sonneiko's pudge to counter that combo!
Edit:
On June 21 2016 04:57 ratedBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2016 00:59 Racket wrote:
Given Dendi is kinda mimicking Miracle (so to say), are we gonna see Dendi play support Rubick? It would be really nice, right now the team seems to lack of a Rubick player.
Edit: Maybe GeneRaL mid, ArtStyle offlane and Dendi supp when it fits or even Sonneiko core. Navi isn't type of team to do it though.
They changed a lot, they may change again if they think its needed.
Edit2:
On June 21 2016 05:01 ratedBlade wrote:
I would say that teams like Alliance, Virtus Pro, Empire, Col etc. are tier 2. Teams like Navi, LGD, Fnatic, MVP.P, VG.R etc. are tier 1.5. Those two groups are definitely not in the same tier because one is above the other kind of like how the 3 big teams right now are above tier 1.5
Yes, top tier2 = tier1.5, we kinda "agreed" on not using .5 last page.
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Hey guys! Missed ESL and any upcoming matches since I'm holidaying in Europe for a month. We got buttfucked by og once again but who cares. What matters is that we have shown that we're the best outside of the tier 1s (unproven against Chinese though). One thing I like is that each tournament navi is expanding their hero pool. Hopefully we see lion because that hero can do so much, and og has destroyed us so many times with it.
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On June 21 2016 00:59 Racket wrote:
Given Dendi is kinda mimicking Miracle (so to say), are we gonna see Dendi play support Rubick? It would be really nice, right now the team seems to lack of a Rubick player.
Edit: Maybe GeneRaL mid, ArtStyle offlane and Dendi supp when it fits or even Sonneiko core.
Or Dendi will channel his inner TI2 god-mode and go Rubick mid once again
#believe
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On June 21 2016 06:53 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2016 00:59 Racket wrote:
Given Dendi is kinda mimicking Miracle (so to say), are we gonna see Dendi play support Rubick? It would be really nice, right now the team seems to lack of a Rubick player.
Edit: Maybe GeneRaL mid, ArtStyle offlane and Dendi supp when it fits or even Sonneiko core. Or Dendi will channel his inner TI2 god-mode and go Rubick mid once again #believe
That would be great but I don't see them winning like that, I could be wrong, who knows.
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God yes, more mid rubick pls Dendimon...
more seriously, his performance on timber against Vega was fantastic. Good to see him have some dominant games like that even against not *top* tier opponents.
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On June 21 2016 15:19 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2016 06:53 nayumi wrote:On June 21 2016 00:59 Racket wrote:
Given Dendi is kinda mimicking Miracle (so to say), are we gonna see Dendi play support Rubick? It would be really nice, right now the team seems to lack of a Rubick player.
Edit: Maybe GeneRaL mid, ArtStyle offlane and Dendi supp when it fits or even Sonneiko core. Or Dendi will channel his inner TI2 god-mode and go Rubick mid once again #believe That would be great but I don't see them winning like that, I could be wrong, who knows.
Not impossible. It wouldn't be any different when they pick him Magnus or Puck, he is playing a space making, play making initiator mid. They just need to pick a scaling dual core for Safelane and Offlane.
At least that is how I see it.
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For that to work they would need 2 heavy farmer heroes that can get easy farm either in jungle or in lane.
Puck or magnus might be in the same space making role, but they can farm much much faster so they can get items to contribute to the fight.
Rubick might obviously get farm but a much slower rate
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Actually Rubick can farm decently well with Bolt but the issue is more with his escape mechanism, especially with the current roaming support meta. And if you baby sit him with another support then you pretty much delay his level progression and he's the type that needs level more than farm (blink + arcane should be enough to make plays).
Back then the mid match up was a true 1v1 ... how i miss the old time 
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On June 22 2016 10:30 nayumi wrote:Back then the mid match up was a true 1v1 ... how i miss the old time
wasnt it like more of a coinflip with how bounty runes didnt exist back then?
Also call me a pessimistic fanboy but from how they played vs Alliance earlier is it just me or is navi starting to look a bit shaky ever since OG 3-0ed them in ESL? Cuz it didnt really look like they were just toying around either, maybe they didnt take the matches seriously but even then they made a couple of questionable moves during the last match.
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Russian Federation3336 Posts
It's much too early to attribute the og 3 0 for the loss. Especially because it's only one match dive esl. So many other factors like condition are more likely for a single hiccup. If they rolled over and died and forgot how to draft,farm, and fight then if be concerned
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On June 24 2016 08:16 neozxa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2016 10:30 nayumi wrote:Back then the mid match up was a true 1v1 ... how i miss the old time wasnt it like more of a coinflip with how bounty runes didnt exist back then? Also call me a pessimistic fanboy but from how they played vs Alliance earlier is it just me or is navi starting to look a bit shaky ever since OG 3-0ed them in ESL? Cuz it didnt really look like they were just toying around either, maybe they didnt take the matches seriously but even then they made a couple of questionable moves during the last match.
It was a charity, captain's draft series. I wouldn't read too much into it.
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On June 24 2016 08:16 neozxa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2016 10:30 nayumi wrote:Back then the mid match up was a true 1v1 ... how i miss the old time wasnt it like more of a coinflip with how bounty runes didnt exist back then? Also call me a pessimistic fanboy but from how they played vs Alliance earlier is it just me or is navi starting to look a bit shaky ever since OG 3-0ed them in ESL? Cuz it didnt really look like they were just toying around either, maybe they didnt take the matches seriously but even then they made a couple of questionable moves during the last match.
Cptains draft, charity, pretty much both teams were fucki g around (did you see game 1 and 2 ??? Both teams made some plays not even a tier 3 team would do)
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On June 24 2016 08:16 neozxa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2016 10:30 nayumi wrote:Back then the mid match up was a true 1v1 ... how i miss the old time wasnt it like more of a coinflip with how bounty runes didnt exist back then? Also call me a pessimistic fanboy but from how they played vs Alliance earlier is it just me or is navi starting to look a bit shaky ever since OG 3-0ed them in ESL? Cuz it didnt really look like they were just toying around either, maybe they didnt take the matches seriously but even then they made a couple of questionable moves during the last match.
Wasn't this the first series the played after that? If yes, wouldn't it be like a bit too early to say that? I mean "ever since"..., unless you mean Dreamleague instead of ESL, in that case I disagree.
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mfw losing to the best team in the world and in a charity event with captains draft means you are shaky
i mean, barcelona lost to some USA team a few years ago in a friendly
they won the champions and the league that same year
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On June 25 2016 02:17 Faruko wrote:
mfw losing to the best team in the world and in a charity event with captains draft means you are shaky
i mean, barcelona lost to some USA team a few years ago in a friendly
they won the champions and the league that same year
Yea, maybe he meant Dreamleague, if that is so then I disagree because NaVi only looked the same if not better from Dreamleague up to today.
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hope the boys do well in the main qualifiers...
oh wait...
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VP disband
would you bring back fng in change of artstyle ? im not so sure, while i dont think this version of the roster has what it takes to be n1, is clearly a roster that works and can be the best out of the top tier teams
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On July 01 2016 00:53 Faruko wrote:
VP disband
would you bring back fng in change of artstyle ? im not so sure, while i dont think this version of the roster has what it takes to be n1, is clearly a roster that works and can be the best out of the top tier teams
Not sure if fng is as much of a leader as artstyle. Having watch all the navi vlogs, I have concluded how much of a boss the hallowed one is, and I think navi would just crumble without him.
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EPT
