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On October 06 2015 06:46 BillGates wrote:
They are just so terrible. Why even change ArtStyle, its not as if he was the problem. He guided them to TI5 and they needed to understand they were one of the weakest teams there and their results was on point as to how "good" they were, which was not that good.
And of course he was not the problem at all, I think if anything at TI5 it was Dendi and Xboct that played bad most of the time.
They changed 4 captains, from FNG, Goblak, artstyle, psm now and they are crap. So its clearly not the captaincy that is the problem, their problem is the 1st and 2nd position.
I don't think Dendi is that good mid anymore, he has a limited hero pool in this day and age, back when the game was focused more on control he could play a puck, magnus, rubick, batrider, QoP(when no one was playing her) and just control the game, take people out of position, silence them, stun them, whatever and let his team do the damage.
With this burst meta he is not that great, yeah he does well in the early game, okay in the mid game, but he falls off significantly in the late game.
Xboct is probably their biggest issue, he just can't carry anymore, I haven't seen him carry his team at any point.
Overall I think the whole team dynamic is broken and can't be fixed, I think the layers don't really have the excitement when playing games, it probably feels like work at this point for them, maybe if everyone went their separate ways and in new teams they could get back their motivation and interest.
Agreed about dendi. There was a game he played PL mid and won the lane, but he looked completely lost in the mid game and fell behind because he didn't farm efficiently.
And his magnus was never good
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On October 06 2015 06:46 BillGates wrote:
They are just so terrible. Why even change ArtStyle, its not as if he was the problem. He guided them to TI5 and they needed to understand they were one of the weakest teams there and their results was on point as to how "good" they were, which was not that good.
And of course he was not the problem at all, I think if anything at TI5 it was Dendi and Xboct that played bad most of the time.
They changed 4 captains, from FNG, Goblak, artstyle, psm now and they are crap. So its clearly not the captaincy that is the problem, their problem is the 1st and 2nd position.
I don't think Dendi is that good mid anymore, he has a limited hero pool in this day and age, back when the game was focused more on control he could play a puck, magnus, rubick, batrider, QoP(when no one was playing her) and just control the game, take people out of position, silence them, stun them, whatever and let his team do the damage.
With this burst meta he is not that great, yeah he does well in the early game, okay in the mid game, but he falls off significantly in the late game.
Xboct is probably their biggest issue, he just can't carry anymore, I haven't seen him carry his team at any point.
Overall I think the whole team dynamic is broken and can't be fixed, I think the layers don't really have the excitement when playing games, it probably feels like work at this point for them, maybe if everyone went their separate ways and in new teams they could get back their motivation and interest.
I only agree with those.
At TI5 Dendi and Xboct didn't play bad the most, yeah they made mistakes but they lost because they had no gameplan past midgame, and that was crystal clear. No one shined at TI5, even Sonneiko had bad games.
Dendi doesn't have a limited hero pool. Of course he is reticent when it has to do with right click heroes, but which of the champions currently played mid, that he already played before in his life, is he not able to play?
He even played a few ok games with Lycan last year.
They must split because time has shown they can't keep playing together, they sabotage their captains ending in sabotaging themselves. Even if their lane stage and mechanics are on par with everyone else (thing that most people claim wrong but can't prove), they keep losing to either bad drafts or bad execution late game. I don't think that out there exists any captain capable of fulfilling their expectations AND willing to join them.
On October 06 2015 08:12 caiovigg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 06:46 BillGates wrote:
They are just so terrible. Why even change ArtStyle, its not as if he was the problem. He guided them to TI5 and they needed to understand they were one of the weakest teams there and their results was on point as to how "good" they were, which was not that good.
And of course he was not the problem at all, I think if anything at TI5 it was Dendi and Xboct that played bad most of the time.
They changed 4 captains, from FNG, Goblak, artstyle, psm now and they are crap. So its clearly not the captaincy that is the problem, their problem is the 1st and 2nd position.
I don't think Dendi is that good mid anymore, he has a limited hero pool in this day and age, back when the game was focused more on control he could play a puck, magnus, rubick, batrider, QoP(when no one was playing her) and just control the game, take people out of position, silence them, stun them, whatever and let his team do the damage.
With this burst meta he is not that great, yeah he does well in the early game, okay in the mid game, but he falls off significantly in the late game.
Xboct is probably their biggest issue, he just can't carry anymore, I haven't seen him carry his team at any point.
Overall I think the whole team dynamic is broken and can't be fixed, I think the layers don't really have the excitement when playing games, it probably feels like work at this point for them, maybe if everyone went their separate ways and in new teams they could get back their motivation and interest. Agreed about dendi. There was a game he played PL mid and won the lane, but he looked completely lost in the mid game and fell behind because he didn't farm efficiently. And his magnus was never good
Go check how many PL games he played in his life. He sucks at the hero, it was picked for him and he took it.
His magnus used to be crap but was quite good last year, maybe you missed most of his games. You can hate Dendi but you can deny reality.
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both xboct and dendi have the skills and talent to be the best again in their respective positions but I think they are too uptight these past, what, 2 years. It feels like they are not enjoying the game anymore. I think they need a break to get themselves going again. I'm not saying they are dragging the team down, but they certainly are not doing justice to their respective legacies.
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On October 06 2015 15:43 lxginverse wrote:
both xboct and dendi have the skills and talent to be the best again in their respective positions but I think they are too uptight these past, what, 2 years. It feels like they are not enjoying the game anymore. I think they need a break to get themselves going again. I'm not saying they are dragging the team down, but they certainly are not doing justice to their respective legacies.
You are right, but I feel they indeed are dragging the team down, not because of their performance but just by playing together.
It is time that Dendi, Funnik and Xboct part ways.
I was one of those that was confident they could do it, after this start and how it is only getting worse I gave up. I can give them more time anymore, there are times for drastic measures and they are already past it.
Either part ways or bring back ArtStyle. I would even try swapping Funnik or Xboct for Kudes, not 'cause that would solve anything but at least that could be the start of something different. I prefer them playing badly with new guys who can only get better than they ruining their reputation any further.
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^ Im pretty sure dendis mag was actually one of the best mags out there at points. I think people banned dendi magnus a lot in 6.83. Him on mag and xboct on troll or jugger got them a lot of big wins if I recall correctly.
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On October 06 2015 20:21 DucK- wrote:
Bring back artstyleee.
This train has two wagons already, keep'em coming!!!
Join us to make it real guys!
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On October 06 2015 21:09 Racket wrote:This train has two wagons already, keep'em coming!!! Join us to make it real guys!
I think I'm one of the biggest supporter of TI5 Navi lineup :D
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On October 06 2015 21:19 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 21:09 Racket wrote:On October 06 2015 20:21 DucK- wrote:
Bring back artstyleee. This train has two wagons already, keep'em coming!!! Join us to make it real guys! I think I'm one of the biggest supporter of TI5 Navi lineup :D
Me too, but only after TI3 lineup.
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TI2 navi, best navi. But yea bring back artstyle, they gave up on him way too early
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Russian Federation3336 Posts
On October 07 2015 02:06 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 21:19 DucK- wrote:On October 06 2015 21:09 Racket wrote:On October 06 2015 20:21 DucK- wrote:
Bring back artstyleee. This train has two wagons already, keep'em coming!!! Join us to make it real guys! I think I'm one of the biggest supporter of TI5 Navi lineup :D Me too, but only after TI3 lineup.
Bring back TI3 lineup
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Gotta be real though. Chances of puppey coming back is close to nil.
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Missed the games, how did that crap go?
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outdraft-outplay game 1 (ends in 14 minutes), followed by a hard spectre game filled with bouts of feeding and not being able to make plays as a team happen with dendi on windrunner.
I believe both games had funnik on offlane feedshaker
...hard times
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On October 08 2015 02:03 Racket wrote:
Missed the games, how did that crap go?
First game was 13min gg I think? Headless chickens.
Second game was mb using aegis very well on 2 separate occasions to get top and mid rax. Gyro was constantly ahead of spectre, while wr was not big quick enough to be a threat. Also...
#PSMout
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On October 08 2015 02:26 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 02:03 Racket wrote:
Missed the games, how did that crap go? First game was 13min gg I think? Headless chickens. Second game was mb using aegis very well on 2 separate occasions to get top and mid rax. Gyro was constantly ahead of spectre, while wr was not big quick enough to be a threat. Also... #PSMout
I am thinking that with ArtStyle out they may have lost their in-game leader in addition to the drafter, if no one took that spot and PSM does not fill it, I don't there is any point in keep trying. Either one takes that position or bring back ArtStyle, at least with the guy they had an idea for the first 30 minutes, and only after that they turned into headless chickens..
Anyone knows who was the in-game/shotcalles in YellowSubmarine?
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PSM was picked up in order to be Na'Vi's captain. He's apparently quite authoritarian.
I don't think it really matters who the captain is though. No one on the team is notably better than their results indicate.
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On October 08 2015 04:57 FuzzyJAM wrote:
PSM was picked up in order to be Na'Vi's captain. He's apparently quite authoritarian.
I don't think it really matters who the captain is though. No one on the team is notably better than their results indicate.
Then you must not have seen artstyle navi much. They could have done what Vega had recently done. That was how positive artstyle navi was.
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On October 08 2015 04:57 FuzzyJAM wrote:
PSM was picked up in order to be Na'Vi's captain. He's apparently quite authoritarian.
I don't think it really matters who the captain is though. No one on the team is notably better than their results indicate.
Being authoritarian has nothing to do with being a good captain. In Dota you need more than just authoritarianism, ppd wouldn't have won TI5 just by been an angry person, he drafts properly and he has an idea from the beginning until the end of a game.
PSM could have drafted acceptable for his former team YS (also called weird by some people) but the problem with NaVi is not draft-wise or not only that, they clearly lost their early/mid dominance, they seem to have lost their strategist. You can't go from "I don't know what to do late game" to "I don't know what to do from minute 0 onward" just by getting someone authoritarian who plays seemingly worse than the former captain.
If they only needed an angry guy to make them practice, because everything else is covered by them, then just hire them some whipping mistress. Clearly they don't have a clue about drafting and game planning in addition to drafting. They need a ppd, a puppey, a person who fills every missing role. That or change more than one person at a time and try to fill those roles with more than one people.
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On October 08 2015 15:05 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 04:57 FuzzyJAM wrote:
PSM was picked up in order to be Na'Vi's captain. He's apparently quite authoritarian.
I don't think it really matters who the captain is though. No one on the team is notably better than their results indicate. Then you must not have seen artstyle navi much. They could have done what Vega had recently done. That was how positive artstyle navi was.
The captain is not the problem. Sure, maybe they can improve from a tier 4 team to a tier 2 team, but they weren't doing great with puppey and it didn't work with FNG as well. Now puppey and FNG are the captains of the 2 best EU teams.
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EPT
