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On April 13 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:
There is also number of people on reddit who rush from sub to sub to defend racism and shitpost about it. But the fact that r/Dota doesn’t do that much to shut them down is, in itself, a problem. Because a community that give the outward impression of defending racism attracts racists who believe they will be welcome in that community. And they likely will be.
I really doubt the Dota community will be accepting of real racists, cmon now.
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I get super fucking annoyed by people not directly affected by a word trying to give it power.
I've met and hung out with gay people. I grew up and worked in a culture that was largely homophobic. Because of this, I had some words in my lexicon that were either outright offensive, or generally hurtful towards the people I was interacting with. Because I used them in that context, it came back to me that my use of language was bullshit and I should watch how I use my words, because I've appropriated some homophobic dialogue into my dialogue.
I'd be really annoyed if, for example, Team Liquid had heavy policing on homophobic language if they didn't also openly support and invite gay culture.
I am really annoyed when a bunch of white people on the internet get really fired up about a mistake the US made many years ago. "You can't use that word!" They say, "It reminds us and everyone that we used to dehumanize a race and thought slavery was okay!"
...but wasn't the word used to describe a group of people that have since had their own arguments and debates on what the word means and how it should or shouldn't be used?
"No you don't get it you can't call anyone the N-word! Its really bad!"
...it's not your word anymore. Yes its offensive. Yes you should not have it in your vocabulary... but don't take it upon yourself to do this self-serving white knight bullshit and stand up for people before they even get to say they need to be stood up for. You just cloud the skies with your white noise (epic pun intended) so people like me don't get to hear what people who have a right to care actually think about the matter.
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On April 13 2018 01:37 PassiveAce wrote:
Snoman is right when he says that the language policing thats been going on since 2012ish is exclusively an american thing
Literally no one else on earth cares
you cant say certain anachronistic and defamatory denominations for people and groups in Germany either.
thats rather universal in the western hemisphere I'd say.
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Calling things gay in 2018 is funny tbh
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On April 13 2018 02:05 PassiveAce wrote:
Calling things gay in 2018 is funny tbh
actually, it's stupid.
On April 13 2018 01:53 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:
There is also number of people on reddit who rush from sub to sub to defend racism and shitpost about it. But the fact that r/Dota doesn’t do that much to shut them down is, in itself, a problem. Because a community that give the outward impression of defending racism attracts racists who believe they will be welcome in that community. And they likely will be. I really doubt the Dota community will be accepting of real racists, cmon now.
when people argue about what's racist or not and call things a slippery slope and such, it most certainly is.
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On April 13 2018 01:53 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:
There is also number of people on reddit who rush from sub to sub to defend racism and shitpost about it. But the fact that r/Dota doesn’t do that much to shut them down is, in itself, a problem. Because a community that give the outward impression of defending racism attracts racists who believe they will be welcome in that community. And they likely will be. I really doubt the Dota community will be accepting of real racists, cmon now.
Want to know their secret power: they don't say they are racists out loud. They just hang out and tell racist jokes, claiming they are kidding. How do I know this: I grew up in a really racist rural town in hyper liberal MA. You don't know people are racist until they drop some hot racist garbage and then you rethink all the other stuff they said before.
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On April 13 2018 02:05 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 01:37 PassiveAce wrote:
Snoman is right when he says that the language policing thats been going on since 2012ish is exclusively an american thing
Literally no one else on earth cares you cant say certain anachronistic and defamatory denominations for people and groups in Germany either. thats rather universal in the western hemisphere I'd say.
Yeah i dont mean from a civil, person-to'person perspective. I mean the culture wide debate oover whats appropriate to say to private audience
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On April 13 2018 02:06 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 02:05 PassiveAce wrote:
Calling things gay in 2018 is funny tbh actually, it's stupid. Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 01:53 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 13 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:
There is also number of people on reddit who rush from sub to sub to defend racism and shitpost about it. But the fact that r/Dota doesn’t do that much to shut them down is, in itself, a problem. Because a community that give the outward impression of defending racism attracts racists who believe they will be welcome in that community. And they likely will be. I really doubt the Dota community will be accepting of real racists, cmon now. when people argue about what's racist or not and call things a slippery slope and such, it most certainly is.
It can be both
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On April 13 2018 02:13 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 02:06 Artisreal wrote:On April 13 2018 02:05 PassiveAce wrote:
Calling things gay in 2018 is funny tbh actually, it's stupid. On April 13 2018 01:53 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 13 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:
There is also number of people on reddit who rush from sub to sub to defend racism and shitpost about it. But the fact that r/Dota doesn’t do that much to shut them down is, in itself, a problem. Because a community that give the outward impression of defending racism attracts racists who believe they will be welcome in that community. And they likely will be. I really doubt the Dota community will be accepting of real racists, cmon now. when people argue about what's racist or not and call things a slippery slope and such, it most certainly is. It can be both
that's so gay dude
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Gay AND stupid
One of my favorite headlines from the onion was something like: School Bullies Target Local Gay Retard
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it's gay dude, gay AND stupid
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On April 13 2018 02:11 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 02:05 Artisreal wrote:On April 13 2018 01:37 PassiveAce wrote:
Snoman is right when he says that the language policing thats been going on since 2012ish is exclusively an american thing
Literally no one else on earth cares you cant say certain anachronistic and defamatory denominations for people and groups in Germany either. thats rather universal in the western hemisphere I'd say. Yeah i dont mean from a civil, person-to'person perspective. I mean the culture wide debate oover whats appropriate to say to private audience
mmh.
I do think that if you include private conversations among people who know each other into the debate it will get unnecessarily or rather unimaginably messy. People will report or even invent cases where saying xyz is OK so they can continue using the term in public and not be called out for it.
I'm not a fan of a blanket ban everywhere and you certainly have to have a more nuanced approach than "as long as it ain't parading in the SA uniform and screaming heil hitler, it's fine" to ban everything everywhere.
Although I'm sure the former is legal in most parts of the world. xD
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I appreciate that this is relevant to the current discussion at hand, but tl.net has put a LOT of effort into being as lgbt friendly as possible and part of that is not accepting the use of the term "gay" in any manner that could be construed as offensive, including jokingly.
So it's fine to discuss where the term "gay" is at right now in various cultures, but please don't even jokingly using it as a slur.
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I can at least respect Blizzard in that they are consistent in their thoughtpolicing even if their full gestapo environment isn't for me. And even if it is just to target the parents/kids demographic.
These other reactive gaming communities let anything go until the accidental n-word and unless you stream kids favourite game of fortnite. Everyone is racist sometimes. This one word is the battleground because of the need to virtue signal in certain part of the world, apparently making all other forms of racism acceptable.
In context of dota it's even the one race that is nearly completely absent so if people really cared about racism you wouldn't have "waow 7 merloobis" banners at TI and all that. Stuff that might actually offend a significant portion of the playerbase and that most of the world might actually think of when speaking of racism. In Europe alone "x" on black racism is tiny to just about everything else. Most Asians really fucking hate certain other Asians. Meanwhile icex3 has probably never even spoken to a black person or had a black viewer who might or might not be offended. It just feels like manufactured, out of proportion outrage every time. Personally I think it might be a sign of the rampant lack of self esteem in the nerd communities trying to bring more successful people down by turning them into N-WORDmen, I blame south park for giving them the idea.
Consistent rules would go a long way. But I suppose the companies are afraid of the adults leaving and having fun in their own youtube/twitch/forum. Not sure if this continued inaction will prevent that. I'm personally looking forward to pornhub becoming the all encompassing media platform for adults with blackjack, hookers and maybe even mr wang's wheelchair antics.
but i'm sure most of what i say is stupid and it's easier to throw around buzzwords
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I have to agree with HJT. Everyone fucks up. If you fuck up, fess up and move on.
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On April 13 2018 02:25 Sn0_Man wrote:
I appreciate that this is relevant to the current discussion at hand, but tl.net has put a LOT of effort into being as lgbt friendly as possible and part of that is not accepting the use of the term "gay" in any manner that could be construed as offensive, including jokingly.
So it's fine to discuss where the term "gay" is at right now in various cultures, but please don't even jokingly using it as a slur.
I love the rainbow tide.
Felt it was a really strong signal to contrast the ubiquitous use as a derogatory term in gaming at the time it was first introduced.
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But who remembers the "I don't want politics in my gaming, the rainbow horse on TL is to much for me" thread? It was a preview of things to come.
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People using gay as a slur, what meaning does it have to them? It's always been used as a replacement word for lame or annoying in my world. Can't think of a situation when someone has used gay in an insulting way to me.
Using fag towards someone homosexual in an aggressive manner isn't so cool though.
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On April 13 2018 02:33 Gosi wrote:
People using gay as a slur, what meaning does it have to them? It's always been used as a replacement word for lame or annoying in my world. Can't think of a situation when someone has used gay in an insulting way to me.
Using fag towards someone homosexual in an aggressive manner isn't so cool though.
Using gay as a pejorative is often hurtful to folks that are gay, it doesn’t matter what the person who said it intended. So it doesn’t really matter what the intent was. The results are what matter.
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On April 13 2018 02:25 Sn0_Man wrote:
tl.net has put a LOT of effort into being as lgbt friendly as possible
So you are saying being lgbt friendly didn't come easy for tl.net ?
or are you implying it TAKES a lot of effort to be lgbt friendly ?
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EPT
