EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 877
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
He has no escape He is pretty damn squishy His spells do not slow or stun on the upside he does fucktons of damages, but that is all he does, damage.(a fuckton of it). He isn't really bad, there are just other heroes who are better then him, pipe is also quite effective against him as people have pointed out. | ||
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Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
On August 22 2012 06:00 Yoshi- wrote: Why need hp when you can euls and blink away Well, you don't start with these 2 items. It does take some time before you get them and it is easier than breathing to gank zeus before he gets them. and you die under a single stun | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On August 22 2012 06:02 Ramong wrote: because you die under a single stun the problem isnt dying under a stun, the problem is that even after you arent stuned anymore you cant escape, I mean even qop can die under a single stun but zeus dies to anything really | ||
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YODA_
593 Posts
On August 22 2012 05:55 Ramong wrote: Arc lightning is not for the dmg, it is for the spam-ability together with static field. THIS, I don't think people realize just how much damage his passive does. At level 4, it does 11% of the target's hp in damage in a huge AoE. if a hero has 1500 hp, that's a pretty massive ~125 damage every 2 seconds, plus the ~110 from the Q. Every 2 seconds. That is a consistent ~120 damage per second, plus a nuke with ministun and reveal, and a massive, map wide 400 damage nuke for an ulti. That is just a LOT of damage output if he can stay alive and spamming spells. At level 8, just his Q and passive alone has almost as much Aoe dps as 3 radiances, although obviously not quite as consistent and is dependent on enemy hp to a decent extent. TLDR: Zeus' passive is massive. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On August 22 2012 06:15 YODA_ wrote: THIS, I don't think people realize just how much damage his passive does. At level 4, it does 11% of the target's hp in damage in a huge AoE. if a hero has 1500 hp, that's a pretty massive ~125 damage every 2 seconds, plus the ~110 from the Q. Every 2 seconds. That is a consistent ~120 damage per second, plus a nuke with ministun and reveal, and a massive, map wide 400 damage nuke for an ulti. That is just a LOT of damage output if he can stay alive and spamming spells. At level 8, just his Q and passive alone has almost as much Aoe dps as 3 radiances, although obviously not quite as consistent and is dependent on enemy hp to a decent extent. TLDR: Zeus' passive is massive. Pretty sure it's current HP though, so while it's still good, it's not as massive as your post implies. It will only do 125 damage the first time it hits, not every 2 seconds. It should be considerably less if the target is nuked down quickly. Doesn't it also apply it's damage after the actual nuke, so you have remove how much damage he takes as well? | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
I play Zeus frequently and he just can't push later in the game. I've had games where my team had over triple or quadruple the kill score and could never manage to push into the rax. That's the biggest issue I've had with him. (This only really applies to 50+ minute games where the entire enemy team buys back multiple times). Mobility, survivability etc. can be made up for with items easily, his extremely poor pushing cannot. A necrobook comes closest but generally by the time you realize you need one to push it's too late to be effective. Even with the buff to his passive he can't clear creep waves without several chain lightnings, has to stand next to a tower to hit it, low autoattack damage. This isn't mentioning his need for solo experience which limits the amount of pushing heroes you can pair him with. edit : it is current HP. Max HP is necrolyte's aura... whose only real benefit is in being hp removal damage, a hero has to have above 3k hp for it to do the same damage as a radiance. | ||
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Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
No, static field deals dmg before the spell that triggers it. "The damage from Static Field is dealt before the damage from the used spell" But it is aoe and they don't need to be visible to you to get hit by it. It is very strong | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On August 22 2012 05:45 YODA_ wrote: All this deso discussion.....I've always gotten it on mirana after manta for some reason...maybe I saw someone pubstomping with it, lol. But what should mirana's second big item be assuming you're hitting it around the ~35-40 minute mark, or are just killing a lot of people. Also, for some reason I've been playing with a zeus a lot lately....and he just seems way too good to not be used competitively. I always looking at the damage done per hero in console after the game, and he literally has lead every single game I've ever played with him in. All of his abilities just equal massive hero nukeage of ridiculous proportions. Just yesterday a zeus was a decent 8/5/16 or something like that in a game(where I played a 3/3/19 mirana lol)......but had almost TRIPLED the nearest player on my team in damage dealt. That is just stupid good. Sure, 5 hoods mitigates his damage to a non-insta death amount, but that's still 2500 gold minimum spent just so a hero doesn't full on rape you every single team fight. What other hero can force an item buy like that? And he makes buying pipe a 100% necessity, even though he can still nuke it down with a fully maxed out Q/W+passive combo on all 5 heroes. I guess, kind of like sf, he's hard to fit into lineups as he needs mid while also being really easy to gank, but surely someone could put a little effort into a plan to protect him, and he could pay off hugely. I feel like he's kind of a ds or veno hero, one that doesn't really do huge damage, but his accumulated damage over time means he is a big factor in almost every team fight. Maybe something like a blink/force staff/euls build would give him the mobility he needs to stay alive while also giving him the mana and regen to spam his abilities off cooldown an entire fight. Second item on mirana on that time should be mkb. I usually go diffu/manta/mkb on her | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Bash
Finland1533 Posts
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Primal666
Slovenia418 Posts
On August 22 2012 05:56 Percutio wrote: I'm not a fan of people saying pipe shuts him down hard while still saying he lacks an escape mechanism. If you get a force staff blink dagger or both you can solve your escape mechanism problems so that you can continue to spam q and w without dieing so that you nullify the impact of pipe just from sheer consistent damage output. I think the comparison to Shadow Fiend is better although Zeus is really not as momentum based, but I can understand it from a farm necessity perspective. well lets see for a succesfgul zeus you need to be in middle of a fight, so if you get force staff blink, you might be able to escape, but your dmg will still be crappy as hell, making you again,less useful Edit: not to mention that with your crappy anti.gank potential by the time you get them other team has enouth hp to not care as much about you. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
RE Zeus: You use Zeus when you want to force a pipe and when your supports require more items than the other team (a lot more). The reasoning behind this (from a drafting point of view), is that forcing a pipe, robs money from the other team that could be used elsewhere besides the fast pipe, and zeus himself can bring down a pipe in seconds anyway, also since your supports need more money than the enemy, you will have fewer wards/slower gem which means you have much less map control. Zeus ulti helps mitigate this in specific circumstances. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Granted this is with perfect positioning, it's probably better not to be in a 1000 aoe of all 5 enemy heroes as zeus unless you want to just die | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 22 2012 07:19 PassiveAce wrote: What is there to talk about? i dunno his opinions on things. I just found it funny that one of the biggest personalities in dota 2 is on JP's show and it's the LOL GD thread that is blowing up about it, while the dota 2 thread is just moving on like nothing. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
iv seen people go forcestaff + blink in the later part of games for the badly needed escape mechanism and that seemed to shore up what is pretty much his greatest weakness. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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shostakovich
Brazil1429 Posts
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
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