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On August 15 2012 05:29 Kipsate wrote:
also Mouz has won 1(?) 1st place, not more then that I think(tiny tournamen too I think) they are mining silvers or bronzes.
ACHIEVEMENTS
4th - Star Championship, Kiev (2011) - $1,500
1st - Dota2Replays Brawl (2012) - $4,000 + 5x SteelSeries Sensei
1st - The GD Studio: Arena #1 (2012) - $1,000
2nd - ASUS Spring Cup (2012) - $825
3rd - Dreamhack Summer, Sweden (2012) - 2,700€
2nd - GosuLeague: season 2 (2012) - $1,000
2nd - Star Ladder: Star Series #2, Kiev (2012) - $3,000
1st - GosuLeague: season 3 (2012) - $2,500
3rd - ProDota2 World Tour Pro League (2012) - $4,000
2nd - The Defense 2 (2012) - 2,500€
GosuBet match history
Quite easy to take 5 seconds to be accurate in your post and not speak rubish. 
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Netherlands45349 Posts
thats why I said I think
Quite easy to take 5 seconds and be condescending though I guess.
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On August 15 2012 05:13 cilinder007 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 05:05 Qbek wrote:
Only way for Riot to keep the scene going really such a stupid thing to say really....LoL is huge, if you deny that you live in a cave
So was WoW arena. Casual fan games come and go and at this time (could change) I don't see LoL as anything more than that. There is a reason games like CS 1.6, Quake, Dota 1 (in the east) and BW were staples in esports for a decade and built an industry and games like WoW:Arena, CoD, TF2, make splashes and disappear. Casuals bounce from game to game with no real allegiance. They play what's hip and fun and move on. I think this reason alone gives Dota2 the best chance to reign supreme in the next few years. LoL will lose it's luster, and the same group (plus new community) that have been supporting dota for 5+ years will continue to be there.
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On August 15 2012 06:03 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 05:13 cilinder007 wrote:On August 15 2012 05:05 Qbek wrote:
Only way for Riot to keep the scene going really such a stupid thing to say really....LoL is huge, if you deny that you live in a cave So was WoW arena. Casual fan games come and go and at this time (could change) I don't see LoL as anything more than that. There is a reason games like CS 1.6, Quake, Dota 1 (in the east) and BW were staples in esports for a decade and built an industry and games like WoW:Arena, CoD, TF2, make splashes and disappear. Casuals bounce from game to game with no real allegiance. They play what's hip and fun and move on. I think this reason alone gives Dota2 the best chance to reign supreme in the next few years. LoL will lose it's luster, and the same group (plus new community) that have been supporting dota for 5+ years will continue to be there.
Lmao
did WoW ever have 200k concurrent viewers? did WoW ever have OGN back it up? LoL has only grown its competitive scene since release.
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On August 15 2012 06:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:03 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 05:13 cilinder007 wrote:On August 15 2012 05:05 Qbek wrote:
Only way for Riot to keep the scene going really such a stupid thing to say really....LoL is huge, if you deny that you live in a cave So was WoW arena. Casual fan games come and go and at this time (could change) I don't see LoL as anything more than that. There is a reason games like CS 1.6, Quake, Dota 1 (in the east) and BW were staples in esports for a decade and built an industry and games like WoW:Arena, CoD, TF2, make splashes and disappear. Casuals bounce from game to game with no real allegiance. They play what's hip and fun and move on. I think this reason alone gives Dota2 the best chance to reign supreme in the next few years. LoL will lose it's luster, and the same group (plus new community) that have been supporting dota for 5+ years will continue to be there. Lmao did WoW ever have 200k concurrent viewers? did WoW ever have OGN back it up? LoL has only grown its competitive scene since release.
Actually, yes. WoW had insane numbers and this was before the days that streamed tournaments were a 'major thing'. This is without TwitchTV etc. I'll see if I can dig numbers.
http://www.gotfrag.com/wow/story/487/
2008, WoW peaked at 270,000 viewers. 2008, think about that, two thousand and eight. 2008. TWO THOUSAND AND EIGHT.
There were many more events than just this one also. It's hard to get numbers from events 5+ years ago.
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On August 15 2012 06:02 Kipsate wrote:
thats why I said I think
Quite easy to take 5 seconds and be condescending though I guess.
Stop speaking rubish
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 15 2012 06:16 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:02 Kipsate wrote:
thats why I said I think
Quite easy to take 5 seconds and be condescending though I guess. Stop speaking rubish + Show Spoiler +
if this was reddit, I'd upvote you for that
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On August 15 2012 06:08 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 15 2012 06:03 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 05:13 cilinder007 wrote:On August 15 2012 05:05 Qbek wrote:
Only way for Riot to keep the scene going really such a stupid thing to say really....LoL is huge, if you deny that you live in a cave So was WoW arena. Casual fan games come and go and at this time (could change) I don't see LoL as anything more than that. There is a reason games like CS 1.6, Quake, Dota 1 (in the east) and BW were staples in esports for a decade and built an industry and games like WoW:Arena, CoD, TF2, make splashes and disappear. Casuals bounce from game to game with no real allegiance. They play what's hip and fun and move on. I think this reason alone gives Dota2 the best chance to reign supreme in the next few years. LoL will lose it's luster, and the same group (plus new community) that have been supporting dota for 5+ years will continue to be there. Lmao did WoW ever have 200k concurrent viewers? did WoW ever have OGN back it up? LoL has only grown its competitive scene since release. Actually, yes. WoW had insane numbers and this was before the days that streamed tournaments were a 'major thing'. This is without TwitchTV etc. I'll see if I can dig numbers.
I'm sorry if this is going to come out as a harsh realization to you in the next year, but LoL is here to stay and remain a competitor to dota. There's 25k viewers watching just one player stream day after day after day for pretty much over the course of a year. I don't really understand where you get this idea that LoL hasn't been around for a while already. It's getting absolutely huge in korea, and if that isn't enough to already convince you then nothing will. Pretty sure the sc2 teams and OGN wouldn't have picked up LoL teams if they thought it wasn't potential of becoming an esport.
If people are going to whine about me posting about LoL related stuff they need to get over it. These 2 games are tied together for the rest of its existence, and living separate existences is only a fairy tale.
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On August 15 2012 06:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:08 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 06:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 15 2012 06:03 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 05:13 cilinder007 wrote:On August 15 2012 05:05 Qbek wrote:
Only way for Riot to keep the scene going really such a stupid thing to say really....LoL is huge, if you deny that you live in a cave So was WoW arena. Casual fan games come and go and at this time (could change) I don't see LoL as anything more than that. There is a reason games like CS 1.6, Quake, Dota 1 (in the east) and BW were staples in esports for a decade and built an industry and games like WoW:Arena, CoD, TF2, make splashes and disappear. Casuals bounce from game to game with no real allegiance. They play what's hip and fun and move on. I think this reason alone gives Dota2 the best chance to reign supreme in the next few years. LoL will lose it's luster, and the same group (plus new community) that have been supporting dota for 5+ years will continue to be there. Lmao did WoW ever have 200k concurrent viewers? did WoW ever have OGN back it up? LoL has only grown its competitive scene since release. Actually, yes. WoW had insane numbers and this was before the days that streamed tournaments were a 'major thing'. This is without TwitchTV etc. I'll see if I can dig numbers. I'm sorry if this is going to come out as a harsh realization to you in the next year, but LoL is here to stay and remain a competitor to dota. There's 25k viewers watching just one player stream day after day after day for pretty much over the course of a year. I don't really understand where you get this idea that LoL hasn't been around for a while already. It's getting absolutely huge in korea, and if that isn't enough to already convince you then nothing will. Pretty sure the sc2 teams and OGN wouldn't have picked up LoL teams if they thought it wasn't potential of becoming an esport. If people are going to whine about me posting about LoL related stuff they need to get over it. These 2 games are tied together for the rest of its existence, and living separate existences is only a fairy tale.
WoW Arena went on for years also, so this isn't the right argument to be making - not that I really care, people can keep watching LoL if they want, not my issue.
Regardless, if you think you know better than the mods and OP, by all means.
OP of this thread states
" 2. Do not discuss LoL or HoN in this thread. Also, please refrain from using the vague term MOBA."
I don't go into the LoL forum and say "What hero killed those creeps - or was it the tower?"
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On August 15 2012 06:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:08 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 06:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 15 2012 06:03 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 05:13 cilinder007 wrote:On August 15 2012 05:05 Qbek wrote:
Only way for Riot to keep the scene going really such a stupid thing to say really....LoL is huge, if you deny that you live in a cave So was WoW arena. Casual fan games come and go and at this time (could change) I don't see LoL as anything more than that. There is a reason games like CS 1.6, Quake, Dota 1 (in the east) and BW were staples in esports for a decade and built an industry and games like WoW:Arena, CoD, TF2, make splashes and disappear. Casuals bounce from game to game with no real allegiance. They play what's hip and fun and move on. I think this reason alone gives Dota2 the best chance to reign supreme in the next few years. LoL will lose it's luster, and the same group (plus new community) that have been supporting dota for 5+ years will continue to be there. Lmao did WoW ever have 200k concurrent viewers? did WoW ever have OGN back it up? LoL has only grown its competitive scene since release. Actually, yes. WoW had insane numbers and this was before the days that streamed tournaments were a 'major thing'. This is without TwitchTV etc. I'll see if I can dig numbers. I'm sorry if this is going to come out as a harsh realization to you in the next year, but LoL is here to stay and remain a competitor to dota. There's 25k viewers watching just one player stream day after day after day for pretty much over the course of a year. I don't really understand where you get this idea that LoL hasn't been around for a while already. It's getting absolutely huge in korea, and if that isn't enough to already convince you then nothing will. Pretty sure the sc2 teams and OGN wouldn't have picked up LoL teams if they thought it wasn't potential of becoming an esport. If people are going to whine about me posting about LoL related stuff they need to get over it. These 2 games are tied together for the rest of its existence, and living separate existences is only a fairy tale.
That's a fine opinion and you may very well be correct. However, don't dismiss the numbers I provided after you egregiously dismissed WoW:Arena viewership. That game was fucking huge and everyone thought it was here to stay as well. 270,000 viewers for an MLG weekend in 2008, 'competition with network television in the demographic!' This is all shit we've heard time and time again. Things don't always work out as they seem.
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Brazil1429 Posts
On August 15 2012 05:47 Ramong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 05:40 shostakovich wrote:On August 15 2012 05:09 Ramong wrote:
Wish Valve would throw more money at competitive DotA.
The International is nice and I am not saying they should host multiple million dollar events, but 1000 dollar for 1st place like in Joindota masters and 6000 for The Defence 2 ain't much.
Not like Valve can't afford to throw out 50000 or even 100000 here and there.
Vilat said on a interview that the earnings from DOTATV will allow him to increase the prizepool or pay team's expenses. So a change for good is already happening. I don't know if I like people simply throwing money at the scene. We need a healthy and self-sustainable scene, not something that will disappear once people stop throwing money at it. Well, I don't claim to be an expert on how to finance a sport. I agree that it should be self-sustainable, but as we see Riot sponsoring their events and now we got multiple events with big price pools and more people playing LoL than any other esport combined. So clearly they must have done something right with their sponsoring. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 05:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
First thing's first. They need to release the game so people can actually get it when they want it. Yes, I agree. We should wait for DotA 2 to be released before we can really talk about this.
Neither I am. And I'm not demanding you to be an expert also, I'm just throwing my feelings on it.
The problem in see in the LoL scene right now is that I don't know what might happen if Riot decides to stop supporting it. And I can't help but fell that's some things are really shady. There were some screenshots around showing a lot of bots at some LoL twitch streams, and that's definitely not cool.
I think what's really important right now is not going all in for numbers, because the industry isn't that big yet. The important thing is to increase the quality of what's already there. We'll only get in the position of making money with it if the product is good. One thing I hope is that The International will set a new mark on how to stream Dota 2 matches, and I hope it'll set the bar very high, so people can follow it and improve.
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On August 15 2012 06:25 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 15 2012 06:08 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 06:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 15 2012 06:03 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 05:13 cilinder007 wrote:On August 15 2012 05:05 Qbek wrote:
Only way for Riot to keep the scene going really such a stupid thing to say really....LoL is huge, if you deny that you live in a cave So was WoW arena. Casual fan games come and go and at this time (could change) I don't see LoL as anything more than that. There is a reason games like CS 1.6, Quake, Dota 1 (in the east) and BW were staples in esports for a decade and built an industry and games like WoW:Arena, CoD, TF2, make splashes and disappear. Casuals bounce from game to game with no real allegiance. They play what's hip and fun and move on. I think this reason alone gives Dota2 the best chance to reign supreme in the next few years. LoL will lose it's luster, and the same group (plus new community) that have been supporting dota for 5+ years will continue to be there. Lmao did WoW ever have 200k concurrent viewers? did WoW ever have OGN back it up? LoL has only grown its competitive scene since release. Actually, yes. WoW had insane numbers and this was before the days that streamed tournaments were a 'major thing'. This is without TwitchTV etc. I'll see if I can dig numbers. I'm sorry if this is going to come out as a harsh realization to you in the next year, but LoL is here to stay and remain a competitor to dota. There's 25k viewers watching just one player stream day after day after day for pretty much over the course of a year. I don't really understand where you get this idea that LoL hasn't been around for a while already. It's getting absolutely huge in korea, and if that isn't enough to already convince you then nothing will. Pretty sure the sc2 teams and OGN wouldn't have picked up LoL teams if they thought it wasn't potential of becoming an esport. If people are going to whine about me posting about LoL related stuff they need to get over it. These 2 games are tied together for the rest of its existence, and living separate existences is only a fairy tale. That's a fine opinion and you may very well be correct. However, don't dismiss the numbers I provided after you egregiously dismissed WoW:Arena viewership. That game was fucking huge and everyone thought it was here to stay as well. 270,000 viewers for an MLG weekend in 2008, 'competition with network television in the demographic!' This is all shit we've heard time and time again. Things don't always work out as they seem.
If you ever played WoW arena I don't think I need to explain why it failed so horribly and that it doesn't coincide with anything that has to do with LoL or its scene right now. Point is it was never a spectator or even competitively viable game from the start because blizzard never cared to begin with.
As for sponsors dota is behind right now, and that's the most worrying issue. If LoL decides to bully some of the tournies around with money like MLG and IPL then there's little hope for dota to make it through there. So far the only real LAN tourny available is dreamhack. Also I think everyone knows LAN > online. And sadly for the western scene korea > china.
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You're really unbelievable and I'm not even sure what you're arguing about. You call out my analogy about WoW being huge to LoL being huge and I back it up with the actual numbers and you skirt the issue while writing up ridiculous strawmen.
Listen, I'm not saying LoL isn't big or is going to die tomorrow, it might even end up being the biggest esport the world has ever seen. All I'm saying is numbers are deceiving and they don't tell the full story. Especially when you consider most if not all of the LoL events are Riot based, and Riot funded. WoW was acheiving massive numbers with almost no help from Blizzard. There were no streams embedded, there were no huge streaming communities like own3d or twitch to make players famous. There was xfire that almost nobody used and the major non-blizzard tournaments.
WoW was gargantuan. 270,000 viewers in 2008. WoW had TV shows in China and in Korea based on arena, and would showcase 3v3, 1v1, etc. and made some big stars for their time. Did WoW have spectator issues? Absolutely, but it's odd you're mentioning LoL because aside from Dota 1 they've have the worst spectator client in the genre for years. Only recently did they make any sort of major improvement, the first release dota 2 beta client was better in every imaginable way.
I think you need to look at the bigger picture and history of esports before you go 'Lmao' at all the other giant games that have come and gone. And historically the only games that withstand the test of time are the challenging, hardcore gamer community games (CS1.6,Quake,Dota1,BroodWar). I don't think anyone would categorize LoL in that fashion, especially in light of it's competition in the genre.
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You're the one who's ignoring things here.
First of all "RIOT funded" is a bad thing now? That should lean more towards its sustainability than anything else. They're serious and they're gonna put in a ton of money so they don't lose out to dota in the competitive scene. LoL DOES have a hardcore gamer community, but it also has a lot of casuals behind it. There's 40k viewers watching streamers ALL day, not just tuning in for a few big name tournaments here and there.
270k viewers is not gargantuan. It's gargantuan when you can get that type of viewers to show up to every single tournament throughout the year. The first international in dota had over a million viewers, but how much of that was the hype behind it you can easily judge through the rest of the tournys. Big fan base, committed viewer base, established tournaments, training houses/infrastructure? They've got every base covered. They worked from the bottom up not from the top down like WoW did.
And really, none of those games you listed along with broodwar could actually match broodwar, and guess which game now has what broodwar had.
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i thought something interesting was going on but NOPE NIE
Cut it out (?), this argument sucks anyway
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None of them has what BW had.
I get that you're committed to LoL being a big deal, and it has big numbers and all that, but it's a shitty game that no one gives a fuck about from a true spectator perspective. That's the big deal. LoL has a big, streamwatching playerbase. Not really a big deal; you want to put eyeballs on the game that aren't already involved in it. That's where Chinese Dota 1, Brood War and Starcraft 2, and to a lesser extent CS1.6, really succeeded and where LoL won't.
User was warned for this post
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The only point I'm trying to make is that you can either ignore LoL, do your own thing, and get shit on like HoN did, or you can compare and do what works and not get shit on while hoping the other game fails and yours succeeds because of it.
HoN's death really had nothing to do with its heroes or gameplay. Back then when they were just porting just dota heroes you could watch the graphs and they were still stagnant and never grew past release because of bad procedures on the business side of things. It's simply not enough to just try and make a good game.
That's all, move on.
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So I herd dota 2 is a good game maybe we should talk about it.
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On August 15 2012 07:26 ControlMonkey wrote:
So I herd dota 2 is a good game maybe we should talk about it.
This might require a graph.
+ Show Spoiler +
Please don't discuss >:|
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dunno, they made 2pages of shit without graph after all.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9IImL.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rld4S.jpg)
