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On August 04 2012 07:06 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 04:59 Yacobs wrote:
If you try to go in a lane with Lycan in a pub, there's a 90% chance you have to deal with your teammates flaming you for the rest of the game and threatening to sit in the fountain... hah. I've never had that happen. I don't play Lycan a tremendous amount but occasionally in SD or RD he winds up being the best mid on the team. Or APGOLD mode (when everyone just randoms for the gold). I've gone mid with him two or three times, I've also solo'd on occasion with him on both long lane and safe lane (you can guess which of those works far, far better). People don't mind him straight up laning as long as he doesn't leave for the jungle at 3, start with jungle items, and totally gimp his partner. With the right support (disablers who can keep the people in place) he and his wolves dish out a lot of damage even at level 1 (though waiting til 3 is probably more viable).
The only issue I have with him laning is the potential inability to make up the gold. When jungling, you may not level as quickly, but you are guaranteed the gold. But in lane, it is often a gamble to whether or not you will be able to last hit. You may be getting mad harassed, or even denied if the other person is good. So your vlads will be later, most of items will be delayed, and probably wont be going out mass ganking so early on.
Of course you can still get away with it. But I like jungling so it allows for two solo lanes which gives our carries the potential to our level the other teams.
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The past 3 times I've seen lycan (1 was me playing by random) the lycanless team goes MAD with warding the woods, 5 man ganking the woods, rewarding the entire woods after the first set run out, and so on.
Oh and also taking an extra 2 minutes in a pause to talk over their heroes to counter lycan.
Pubs are seriously pissed at this hero.
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On August 04 2012 07:46 N3rV[Green] wrote:
The past 3 times I've seen lycan (1 was me playing by random) the lycanless team goes MAD with warding the woods, 5 man ganking the woods, rewarding the entire woods after the first set run out, and so on.
Oh and also taking an extra 2 minutes in a pause to talk over their heroes to counter lycan.
Pubs are seriously pissed at this hero.
yep, I do that everytime I see lycan in the game
fuck this hero.
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Dota his not balanced.
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
The buff/nerf can applied numerous ways, for example a raise/cut of starting gold by 50gold per x/y turns picked/not picked.
Both public as tourney games will benefit from this change and enrich the already deep game that dota is.
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool.
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On August 04 2012 08:14 Teejing wrote:
Dota his not balanced.
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
The buff/nerf can applied numerous ways, for example a raise/cut of starting gold by 50gold per x/y turns picked/not picked.
Both public as tourney games will benefit from this change and enrich the already deep game that dota is.
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool.
Sniper, riki, BH and other pub favorite heroes will be nerfed into oblivion. Sniper is already such glorious food, I'm overjoyed as long as he's not on my team.
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On August 04 2012 07:43 Nilrem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:06 Nevuk wrote:On August 03 2012 04:59 Yacobs wrote:
If you try to go in a lane with Lycan in a pub, there's a 90% chance you have to deal with your teammates flaming you for the rest of the game and threatening to sit in the fountain... hah. I've never had that happen. I don't play Lycan a tremendous amount but occasionally in SD or RD he winds up being the best mid on the team. Or APGOLD mode (when everyone just randoms for the gold). I've gone mid with him two or three times, I've also solo'd on occasion with him on both long lane and safe lane (you can guess which of those works far, far better). People don't mind him straight up laning as long as he doesn't leave for the jungle at 3, start with jungle items, and totally gimp his partner. With the right support (disablers who can keep the people in place) he and his wolves dish out a lot of damage even at level 1 (though waiting til 3 is probably more viable). The only issue I have with him laning is the potential inability to make up the gold. When jungling, you may not level as quickly, but you are guaranteed the gold. But in lane, it is often a gamble to whether or not you will be able to last hit. You may be getting mad harassed, or even denied if the other person is good. So your vlads will be later, most of items will be delayed, and probably wont be going out mass ganking so early on. Of course you can still get away with it. But I like jungling so it allows for two solo lanes which gives our carries the potential to our level the other teams.
It's really hard to deny Lycan's wolves, let alone wolves + the hero. Generally if it's a harass heavy lane I use the wolves and sit by the tower using them to lasthit/deny. Same as with syllabear, they're just a bit squisher, faster, and hit harder. Last hits aren't usually a problem. The fact that he has no escape mechanism before level 6 lends to him being easily gankable/killable in lane. Which is equally true in the jungle, and it's way easier to mess with lycan's jungle than his laning.
I've never played as Lycan with a good support player just dual laning, but I can't think of why it wouldn't work. The wolves can out harass most heroes and don't have the leash that sylla's bear has.
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On August 04 2012 08:14 Teejing wrote:
Dota his not balanced.
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
The buff/nerf can applied numerous ways, for example a raise/cut of starting gold by 50gold per x/y turns picked/not picked.
Both public as tourney games will benefit from this change and enrich the already deep game that dota is.
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool.
hahaha that is cute. Of course, it would not happen but I find it entertaining. The idea is no better than throwing on a bandaid for a gunshot wound. Does not quite work that easily. The thing about games like this is that, you are not able to really balance the game for pub and high level play at the same time. This is an issue that games like starcraft also ran into to.
That is why heroes like ursa which have the potential to be pub stompers are not readily nerfed because of its apparent flaws in competetive play (easily counterable if you have a team together). There is also the issue of hero syncronization. There are heroes that work better with specifc other heroes, which can also skew the numbers of individual heroes.
The plan wont work since it is far too basic of an idea for a very complex game that does get balanced. But the balance is in gameplay and not some automatic system.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On August 04 2012 08:14 Teejing wrote:
Dota his not balanced.
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
The buff/nerf can applied numerous ways, for example a raise/cut of starting gold by 50gold per x/y turns picked/not picked.
Both public as tourney games will benefit from this change and enrich the already deep game that dota is.
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool.
Sounds like that dynamic pricing shit they had for counterstrike, that really failed hard.
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On August 04 2012 08:14 Teejing wrote:
Dota his not balanced.
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
The buff/nerf can applied numerous ways, for example a raise/cut of starting gold by 50gold per x/y turns picked/not picked.
Both public as tourney games will benefit from this change and enrich the already deep game that dota is.
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool.
Okay I'm off to bed.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
On August 04 2012 08:14 Teejing wrote:
Dota his not balanced.
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
The buff/nerf can applied numerous ways, for example a raise/cut of starting gold by 50gold per x/y turns picked/not picked.
Both public as tourney games will benefit from this change and enrich the already deep game that dota is.
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool.
Must be troll bait, and actually decently done. If we hadn't had so many of these already I suspect many more people would've bitten.
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On August 04 2012 08:14 Teejing wrote:
Dota his not balanced.
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
The buff/nerf can applied numerous ways, for example a raise/cut of starting gold by 50gold per x/y turns picked/not picked.
Both public as tourney games will benefit from this change and enrich the already deep game that dota is.
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool.
That's a cute idea, but bans/picks should be enough to remove/adapt some/your strategy
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I'm sitting next to flamewheel, requests?
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On August 04 2012 11:40 Hoban wrote:
I'm sitting next to flamewheel, requests?
n00dz
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On August 04 2012 12:01 paper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 11:40 Hoban wrote:
I'm sitting next to flamewheel, requests?
n00dz
I will admit it, I read that as noodles. Granted, I did have good on my mind so that might explain it.
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On August 04 2012 09:09 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 08:14 Teejing wrote:
Dota his not balanced.
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
The buff/nerf can applied numerous ways, for example a raise/cut of starting gold by 50gold per x/y turns picked/not picked.
Both public as tourney games will benefit from this change and enrich the already deep game that dota is.
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool. Sounds like that dynamic pricing shit they had for counterstrike, that really failed hard.
What a Riot idea lol. Riot as in the company.
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On August 04 2012 08:14 Teejing wrote:
Balancing manually a few times a year is not enough.
We need a balancing mechanic that buffs and nerfs heroes on its own basing on how often a hero is picked(/banned).
Lets help dota help itself by making use of its vast hero pool.
Isnt that how Riot balances? And look at their meta. All I hear from it is stagnant, stagnant, stagnant.
I do agree that the goal of dota should be to have nearly all heroes competitive worthy but that also has to come through a different route. For instance, Skel King was usually never picked competitively but when Fire (old compLexity) burst onto the scene, their SK was their main Carry and Initiator. Their team was built around that hero and it made it work.
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On August 04 2012 08:09 Kznn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:46 N3rV[Green] wrote:
The past 3 times I've seen lycan (1 was me playing by random) the lycanless team goes MAD with warding the woods, 5 man ganking the woods, rewarding the entire woods after the first set run out, and so on.
Oh and also taking an extra 2 minutes in a pause to talk over their heroes to counter lycan.
Pubs are seriously pissed at this hero. yep, I do that everytime I see lycan in the game fuck this hero.
That's what I do as well. :D Aside from the pause thing, normally I do it alone.
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On August 04 2012 16:40 ChrisXIV wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 08:09 Kznn wrote:On August 04 2012 07:46 N3rV[Green] wrote:
The past 3 times I've seen lycan (1 was me playing by random) the lycanless team goes MAD with warding the woods, 5 man ganking the woods, rewarding the entire woods after the first set run out, and so on.
Oh and also taking an extra 2 minutes in a pause to talk over their heroes to counter lycan.
Pubs are seriously pissed at this hero. yep, I do that everytime I see lycan in the game fuck this hero. That's what I do as well. :D Aside from the pause thing, normally I do it alone.
That's exactly why i feel like my games became so damn tough lately, since when pubs are so damn good lol (similar things happened in different line up against different carry)
I was one of those poor lycans and then i go aggressive jungling in their forest, 4 heroes came to me immediately....
Is like people are so pissed (of keep losing games) to the point that they don't give a damn to anything anymore they just wanna hurt your carry severely no matter what (last night there was a sd+lesh stayed out of lane just to piss off our carry at radiant bot lane, they just stayed in the forest and get no creep exp but it worked because our carry had 0 game sense >_>)
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Riot is proud that 90% of their roster is used in their season 2 tournament.
But the reason for this isn't because everything's balanced, it's because everything is changed every two weeks, so obviously the picks will change often and everything will seem viable.
I much prefer IceFrog's way of doing things, he allows players to figure out what to do, or the meta changes so a hero falls out of style.
And yet, a lot of different heroes are picked in DotA, they work in certain lineups and strategies, almost all of them, it's just that some are a lot better for the current meta.
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all defense matches are postponed at the moment? because of the prodota finals i guess?
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EPT
