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General Discussion - Page 6104

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
andyrau
Profile Joined December 2010
13015 Posts
August 08 2014 23:08 GMT
#122061
wait wtf how is doom ass
he makes one of the opposing team's heroes useless, literally pulls gold out of his ass, great initiation with blink, and lvldeath does a shitload of damage.
"Zai is legitimately not as good as bulba." | kaipi ti3 champions
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 08 2014 23:24 GMT
#122062
On August 09 2014 08:08 andyrau wrote:
wait wtf how is doom ass
he makes one of the opposing team's heroes useless, literally pulls gold out of his ass, great initiation with blink, and lvldeath does a shitload of damage.

In jungle.

Doom is ass in jungle.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 08 2014 23:26 GMT
#122063
On August 09 2014 08:02 superstartran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2014 07:52 Targe wrote:
with a little awareness jungle is safe as laning



No it's not, it weakens your lanes and sets you up for massive failure. It allows the offlane much more exp than he would normally get, and it gives the opposing supports (if they have 2) the opportunity to roam and camp your mid. Jungling almost never works out in pubs because pubs are won almost exclusively from the laning phase. If you have a good laning phase, you win your pubs a good portion of the time (I'd wager anywhere from 70-80%). This isn't like competitive play where people are smart enough to farm the jungle and dodge fights as a team; what will end up happening is that you're jungling and dodging fights, but your team gets caught, or tries to take bad fights 4v5, etc.


There needs to be serious changes to how denying/exp/neutrals work before jungling becomes viable again. Before, it used to be viable to just jungle because you'd outexp/outgold the opposing supports so badly that it would be worth it to sacrafice some laning power. Now with changes to smoke, exp, shared gold, etc. you can get way more gold as a support player, making a jungler that much less viable in pub play. You rarely see junglers even ganking junglers like Chen/Enchant/Enigma for this very reason now adays in competitive play. For whatever reason, people just haven't figured out that it's terrible for pubs.

wtf does all that have to do with being safe in the laning phase
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 08 2014 23:32 GMT
#122064
On August 09 2014 08:26 Targe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2014 08:02 superstartran wrote:
On August 09 2014 07:52 Targe wrote:
with a little awareness jungle is safe as laning



No it's not, it weakens your lanes and sets you up for massive failure. It allows the offlane much more exp than he would normally get, and it gives the opposing supports (if they have 2) the opportunity to roam and camp your mid. Jungling almost never works out in pubs because pubs are won almost exclusively from the laning phase. If you have a good laning phase, you win your pubs a good portion of the time (I'd wager anywhere from 70-80%). This isn't like competitive play where people are smart enough to farm the jungle and dodge fights as a team; what will end up happening is that you're jungling and dodging fights, but your team gets caught, or tries to take bad fights 4v5, etc.


There needs to be serious changes to how denying/exp/neutrals work before jungling becomes viable again. Before, it used to be viable to just jungle because you'd outexp/outgold the opposing supports so badly that it would be worth it to sacrafice some laning power. Now with changes to smoke, exp, shared gold, etc. you can get way more gold as a support player, making a jungler that much less viable in pub play. You rarely see junglers even ganking junglers like Chen/Enchant/Enigma for this very reason now adays in competitive play. For whatever reason, people just haven't figured out that it's terrible for pubs.

wtf does all that have to do with being safe in the laning phase


Typical pub with jungler. AFK for 6 minutes while two other lanes get lost/enemy carry gets easy 1v1 lane. Enemy offlane is so overfed that they just walk into jungle and make you cry.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-08 23:44:27
August 08 2014 23:43 GMT
#122065
Doom jungle is quite strong in the hands of a good player--Centaur/Ursa + MS advantage (from Boots and Scorched Earth) or Troll net are both strong ganking skills. It's just that because of how mana intensive they are, you get fucked if you ever fail a gank, making it really unforgiving. So most pub players just AFK farm because they feel better about being useless with farm than being useless with no farm.
Moderator
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-08 23:44:14
August 08 2014 23:44 GMT
#122066
hit quote instead of edit
Moderator
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 08 2014 23:48 GMT
#122067
On August 09 2014 08:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2014 08:26 Targe wrote:
On August 09 2014 08:02 superstartran wrote:
On August 09 2014 07:52 Targe wrote:
with a little awareness jungle is safe as laning



No it's not, it weakens your lanes and sets you up for massive failure. It allows the offlane much more exp than he would normally get, and it gives the opposing supports (if they have 2) the opportunity to roam and camp your mid. Jungling almost never works out in pubs because pubs are won almost exclusively from the laning phase. If you have a good laning phase, you win your pubs a good portion of the time (I'd wager anywhere from 70-80%). This isn't like competitive play where people are smart enough to farm the jungle and dodge fights as a team; what will end up happening is that you're jungling and dodging fights, but your team gets caught, or tries to take bad fights 4v5, etc.


There needs to be serious changes to how denying/exp/neutrals work before jungling becomes viable again. Before, it used to be viable to just jungle because you'd outexp/outgold the opposing supports so badly that it would be worth it to sacrafice some laning power. Now with changes to smoke, exp, shared gold, etc. you can get way more gold as a support player, making a jungler that much less viable in pub play. You rarely see junglers even ganking junglers like Chen/Enchant/Enigma for this very reason now adays in competitive play. For whatever reason, people just haven't figured out that it's terrible for pubs.

wtf does all that have to do with being safe in the laning phase


Typical pub with jungler. AFK for 6 minutes while two other lanes get lost/enemy carry gets easy 1v1 lane. Enemy offlane is so overfed that they just walk into jungle and make you cry.

wtf is this

i said with a little awareness the jungle is safe enough and everyones talking about trash pub players and the effects of having a jungler
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
TomatoBisque
Profile Joined March 2013
United States6290 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-09 00:07:38
August 09 2014 00:05 GMT
#122068
On August 09 2014 07:47 superstartran wrote:
Can I just say that people who jungle on a non-ganking jungler make me want to kill myself? That shit is so infuriating it is unreal.

These people are the worst, since they don't die because they're fucking AFK in the jungle with their half an Armlet at 10 minutes and no boots while our lanes are getting roamed on because we're 4v5 then they have the gall to flame people for feeding and having no farm

Fortunately when I know I'm gonna be up against this shit I can just pick BH and make their jungler cry
rip
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
August 09 2014 00:08 GMT
#122069
i have 72.50% winrate with jungle doom in pub wat now
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
August 09 2014 00:28 GMT
#122070
Is Phase Boots really that much better than Treads for Furion?

My current pub build:

Basilius -> Midas -> Treads -> Necro3 -> Maelstrom -> Scythe -> Daedalus

I get called noob half the time they see treads on my Furion. 4200+ MMR.
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
August 09 2014 00:29 GMT
#122071
midas->phase is pretty bad
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
August 09 2014 00:31 GMT
#122072
On August 09 2014 09:29 teddyoojo wrote:
midas->phase is pretty bad


would Midas -> Treads be better then lol
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
August 09 2014 00:33 GMT
#122073
in theory yes but keep in mind u cant really generalize like that in dota
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
August 09 2014 00:35 GMT
#122074
On August 09 2014 09:33 teddyoojo wrote:
in theory yes but keep in mind u cant really generalize like that in dota


well yeah I know, though in my current MMR, hardly an adjustment that is needed.

The most I'd do is get wards/smoke, etc. for the team while a significant item is needed on the other supports, like Mek or Blink.
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
August 09 2014 00:37 GMT
#122075
Midas -> brown boots owns.
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
August 09 2014 00:38 GMT
#122076
On August 09 2014 09:37 makmeatt wrote:
Midas -> brown boots owns.


Hmmm.. I might just do this for the faster Necro3.
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
August 09 2014 00:39 GMT
#122077
On August 09 2014 09:38 trinxified wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2014 09:37 makmeatt wrote:
Midas -> brown boots owns.


Hmmm.. I might just do this for the faster Necro3.

I was kidding dude, midas sucks on prophet.
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
Rocket-Bear
Profile Joined July 2014
3070 Posts
August 09 2014 01:32 GMT
#122078
Phase Midas Necro Medallion Solo Rosh before 25min. Get deso before 30.

gz you won

Furion in pubs is really difficult
Favorite players: Gh and Zai
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 09 2014 02:00 GMT
#122079
its as easy as that
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Seraphic
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3849 Posts
August 09 2014 02:28 GMT
#122080
Soo... I got my demihero from Valve Store today...

and I got the golden Venge >.> Then to the Golden Mausoleum (worse one of the 5)
Natus Vincere Fan | Team Secret Fan | SK Telecom T1 Fan | Lanaya the Templar Assassin <3
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