|
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On April 25 2014 07:01 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 06:53 teapoted wrote:
Well I wasn't only talking about the comic. I said "The whole "fight broken with broken" that everyone seems to attribute Dota with makes absolutely no sense."
Because my issue was with the general notion, not just that comic. Things in DotA feel broken and overpowered. DotA2 is balanced to preserve those feelings and perceptions. Basically the fact that you have situations in Dota where people feel unstoppable and overpowered, like say a 6 slotted late game carry or a Pudge who lands all their hooks, is where the comic and the perception come from. The actual reality of balance isn't that you're fighting broken with broken, just that you're allowing for things to have strong niche uses and weaknesses elsewhere with most things having a strong feeling of impact on the game. Sure, I can agree with that.
|
United States13143 Posts
On April 25 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well if AA and dazzle were hot shit as supports in 6.78 you'd see offlaners doing not too badly against them I bet, although AA's harass is mean.
All the disable/nuke-heavy supports being picked made offlaning a lot worse than current.
That's probably part of the reason dazzle wasn't picked then.
|
On April 25 2014 07:14 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well if AA and dazzle were hot shit as supports in 6.78 you'd see offlaners doing not too badly against them I bet, although AA's harass is mean.
All the disable/nuke-heavy supports being picked made offlaning a lot worse than current. That's probably part of the reason dazzle wasn't picked then.
6.78 was much less interested in early-and-midgame push lineups. But yes, lane power was also a big deal.
|
AA wasn't any good in 6.78. Dazzle is slightly better now, but not too different. There were just better options.
|
United States47024 Posts
On April 25 2014 07:16 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 07:14 Elyvilon wrote:On April 25 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well if AA and dazzle were hot shit as supports in 6.78 you'd see offlaners doing not too badly against them I bet, although AA's harass is mean.
All the disable/nuke-heavy supports being picked made offlaning a lot worse than current. That's probably part of the reason dazzle wasn't picked then. 6.78 was much less interested in early-and-midgame push lineups. But yes, lane power was also a big deal.
It was also less interested in supports that couldn't contribute as much to midgame map control. The iconic supports of 6.78 like Wisp, Visage and Naga were not necessarily strong laning nuke+disable supports (Wisp especially, the other two have them but not as much as many other supports do), but shined in that all contribute heavily to midgame map control--Wisp's Relocate, Naga's illusion scouting ability when carrying a gem, Visage's Familiars, etc.
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
I'd like to see what would happen if we just went back to a really old version. Teams have gotten so much better than they were at that point, probably completely different heroes would be played once the dust settles.
Basically, I want 6.48b revival tournament.
|
On April 25 2014 07:19 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 07:16 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 25 2014 07:14 Elyvilon wrote:On April 25 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well if AA and dazzle were hot shit as supports in 6.78 you'd see offlaners doing not too badly against them I bet, although AA's harass is mean.
All the disable/nuke-heavy supports being picked made offlaning a lot worse than current. That's probably part of the reason dazzle wasn't picked then. 6.78 was much less interested in early-and-midgame push lineups. But yes, lane power was also a big deal. It was also less interested in supports that couldn't contribute as much to midgame map control. The iconic supports of 6.78 like Wisp, Visage and Naga were not necessarily strong laning nuke+disable supports (Wisp especially, the other two have them but not as much as many other supports do), but shined in that all contribute heavily to midgame map control--Wisp's Relocate, Naga's illusion scouting ability when carrying a gem, Visage's Familiars, etc.
Also I think that you have to look at how Dark Seer changed the offlane singlehandedly at that time. He was a hero who you had to hard zone out during the early laning stage, and if he got level 2 or 3 you had to have a stun to deal with him. If you didn't deal with him then, his ability to take over mid-late game teamfights was overwhelming and you ended up in a bad position because of it.
|
The one thing concerns me is that I hope icefrog plays at least 40% of his games on EU server. Balancing the game solely on US server just doesn't feel right. I keep having this feeling that he used to play mostly on EU but not so much since he started to work for Valve.
I like 6.79 overall (so far), the way the teams draft lately makes so much sense to me now (i havent felt like that since pre-TI3), and for pub games the current metagame is acceptable to me but I am not enjoying it very much (basically too one sided for both sides, mainly thanks to ranked MM, i believe), even though i really dont care much about the win/loss nowadays.
And I am not too sure if I like the ridiculous amount of income in 6.79 lol, it is especially noticeable when you are on non-farming heroes (you are supposed to have a lot of income keep coming in on #1-3 anyway), after a few early towers or winning 1/2 team fights suddenly you have near 2k gold in bank, =<15mins dagger/forcestraff is almost standard nowadays when you play a rather selfish support, <20mins mek on #5 is everywhere nowadays >_> The timing of necro3 on a hardlaner can be ridiculously early in some slight advantaged game, like =<20mins (with arcane and basic items).
That affects pro games hugely because while item's timing is still critical as always, (bad) item choices are rather forgivable now since you can 'compensate' it by getting the next item sooner than before. So if the player had a good gold management before the patch he would be swimming like a fish in this patch - do some ridiculous items timing from some pro support players ring a bell?
|
I'm having a lot of doubts regarding the MMR system, I was wondering if someone could clear this up.
When I was 4k - 4.1k, the percetnage of people that played decently was fairly high, I can tell that this is where my real level was due to the level of the people playing.
Out of nowhere, however, I started getting consecutive idiots on my team, and I mean toxic, retarded, bad, and abandoning sort of idiots, that single-handedly cause you to lose the game. So that made me go on a 1-9 losing streak, and I dropped down to 3800.
20+ games later, I'm still at 3750, and the quantity of bad players is MUCH higher. It seems that the games are really one sided, whichever team has the most idiots loses. I feel that even if I was a pro player, I wouldn't be able to change the outcome of the game 90% of the games.
So my question is, as a support, is it actually possible to go up in MMR from where I'm at? I'm really considering playing massive amounts of lycan/mid hero games in which it's actually possible to make a difference, given enough games. How long did it take you guys to get to 4.2k+ from where I am now?
It's extremely demotivating, all I want is to play good games with decent players, I don't really care for MMR, but the games I've been having lately are just sad...
|
On April 25 2014 07:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
I feel that even if I was a pro player, I wouldn't be able to change the outcome of the game 90% of the games.
don't feel like this because the second you do, you'll be in the trench forever. If you were a pro, these games would be a stomp (for you).
playing a support is unquestionably more difficult to rank up with, but if you're superior to the people you're playing against, it's more than doable to level up playing support. Try playing a more active support, don't baby sit retards, win lanes, gank, make it nearly impossible for your team to lose by giving your team a good start. After all, if everyone sucks, this should be easy to accomplish. Will you still lose? Of course, anyone can throw a big enough lead, but if you play well, win lanes and take charge of your games, you will undoubtedly win more than you lose and thus improve your mmr.
|
Yes, it is possible to go past the 3.8k mark playing support.
How much time someone took to reach a certain MMR is meaningless. You are not really climbing a ladder, its not like your rank is supposed to increase just because you are playing. Some people started at 5k, some people started ranked at 3k and will forever play at 3k, someone may have won 20 straight games and went from 3800 to 4.2k in 20 games.
|
On April 25 2014 06:26 Torte de Lini wrote:
I like to think that IceFrog takes an imbalance like a pimple.
You don't poke what's OP, but surround the skin/context that makes that particular bubble of skin red and inflated and add pressure for it to either pop or resolve back into normality.
Torte de Clearasil has spoken!
|
its possible to get higher ranking if ur good
not if ur playing mid or carry or support
|
i feed every game and people still carry me to more mmr
idk what to do guys
|
well sucking is clearly working out for you why stop what is working
|
i just want to play with people who suck just as much as i do......
y hate
|
|
|
On April 25 2014 07:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
I'm having a lot of doubts regarding the MMR system, I was wondering if someone could clear this up.
When I was 4k - 4.1k, the percetnage of people that played decently was fairly high, I can tell that this is where my real level was due to the level of the people playing.
Out of nowhere, however, I started getting consecutive idiots on my team, and I mean toxic, retarded, bad, and abandoning sort of idiots, that single-handedly cause you to lose the game. So that made me go on a 1-9 losing streak, and I dropped down to 3800.
20+ games later, I'm still at 3750, and the quantity of bad players is MUCH higher. It seems that the games are really one sided, whichever team has the most idiots loses. I feel that even if I was a pro player, I wouldn't be able to change the outcome of the game 90% of the games.
So my question is, as a support, is it actually possible to go up in MMR from where I'm at? I'm really considering playing massive amounts of lycan/mid hero games in which it's actually possible to make a difference, given enough games. How long did it take you guys to get to 4.2k+ from where I am now?
It's extremely demotivating, all I want is to play good games with decent players, I don't really care for MMR, but the games I've been having lately are just sad...
You're probably bad and not having half the impact you think you are in games.
You can win from any position. DrPandaPHD plays almost nothing but support on here and he's over 5k rated and can't keep a smurf in the 4k range.
|
On April 25 2014 07:48 BurningSera wrote:
The one thing concerns me is that I hope icefrog plays at least 40% of his games on EU server. Balancing the game solely on US server just doesn't feel right. I keep having this feeling that he used to play mostly on EU but not so much since he started to work for Valve.
I like 6.79 overall (so far), the way the teams draft lately makes so much sense to me now (i havent felt like that since pre-TI3), and for pub games the current metagame is acceptable to me but I am not enjoying it very much (basically too one sided for both sides, mainly thanks to ranked MM, i believe), even though i really dont care much about the win/loss nowadays.
And I am not too sure if I like the ridiculous amount of income in 6.79 lol, it is especially noticeable when you are on non-farming heroes (you are supposed to have a lot of income keep coming in on #1-3 anyway), after a few early towers or winning 1/2 team fights suddenly you have near 2k gold in bank, =<15mins dagger/forcestraff is almost standard nowadays when you play a rather selfish support, <20mins mek on #5 is everywhere nowadays >_> The timing of necro3 on a hardlaner can be ridiculously early in some slight advantaged game, like =<20mins (with arcane and basic items).
That affects pro games hugely because while item's timing is still critical as always, (bad) item choices are rather forgivable now since you can 'compensate' it by getting the next item sooner than before. So if the player had a good gold management before the patch he would be swimming like a fish in this patch - do some ridiculous items timing from some pro support players ring a bell?
You do realize balancing on purposes of servers is an incredebly stupid idea.
China servers: All carries get 20% less farm
Na servers: middle lane spawns random minion
EU servers: Ban russians from picking heros
|
United States47024 Posts
On April 25 2014 09:28 Darkren wrote:
EU servers: Ban russians from picking heros
Not like Russians randoming every game would change anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
