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On April 09 2014 05:02 Ru ba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 04:59 Plansix wrote:
I think you making broad, blanket statements about abstract concepts like "micro" and decision making. You decided that farming 2 camps and lane at the same time is easy, while using meepo is hard. Just because you think it doesn't make you right. micro and decision making are pretty clear concepts I don't know what your talking about. and yea that's just my opinion,no ones forcing you to agree with me
I don't, I think just aren't playing attention. As stated abov, watching three sets of illusions last hit is very impressive and not easy to do. Of course you can muddle your way through it and rely on the burn, but high level players don't do it.
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When I see meracle's Naga, I just know it's hard. Especially when he is like the only player in the world to manage it so well.
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load up some rtz vod and watch him cut creeps with naga when he has radiance
he doesn't "hit" creeps with illusions,he sets up shop in the enemy jungle and sends his illusions to the nearest lanes,when the creep wave comes he intercepts it and moves the illusion around a little bit to prevent it from dying if it's not tanky enough.
outrunning creeps(or heroes for that matter) is really not hard btw because naga movespeed and radiance has a decent aoe so they always keep aggro
I'm not making this up Ive watched him and other play it countless times to observe and learn the process behind it.
If you are talking about farming multiple lanes with illusions while not having radiance than that's some next lvl shit i have never seen before and would like to see,but that was not my point either
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You can't just straw man your way through this argument and say that "this one time I watched a replay of this high level player and he just Amoved his way to glory".
No matter what you say, controlling three to four control groups on seperate screens and also avoiding the 5 enemy team members actively trying to kill you is impressive and hard to do.
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On April 09 2014 05:19 Plansix wrote:
You can't just straw man your way through this argument and say that "this one time I watched a replay of this high level player and he just Amoved his way to glory".
lol ok bro
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On April 09 2014 05:21 Ru ba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:19 Plansix wrote:
You can't just straw man your way through this argument and say that "this one time I watched a replay of this high level player and he just Amoved his way to glory". lol ok bro
Sorry, it's a shit argument. It's like saying all left handed baseball patches pitch like shit because you saw one of them throw some shitty pitches during practice.
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You're saying naga is easy because some of the abstract tasks that are central to naga play are easy to preform. However, there are many details involved in playing a hero that aren't revealed even when you watch PoV streams.
Instead of reducing naga down to a model and trying to understand why/how she is played, I think you should study the impact that naga has on games. When there are noticeble differences between pro naga players, Its clear that naga has an extremely high skill cap.
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On April 09 2014 04:33 Ru ba wrote:
I genuinely wonder if any of you played zvz in your life.or meepo for that matter
if not try it and than come back and tell me microing naga illusions is hard.
I genuinely wonder if you've played naga before.
Do you have a replay I can take a look at for my amusement?
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On April 09 2014 05:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:21 Ru ba wrote:On April 09 2014 05:19 Plansix wrote:
You can't just straw man your way through this argument and say that "this one time I watched a replay of this high level player and he just Amoved his way to glory". lol ok bro Sorry, it's a shit argument. It's like saying all left handed baseball patches pitch like shit because you saw one of them throw some shitty pitches during practice.
I specifically tell you how something is done,you tell me I'm making shit up and straw man argue.
I tell you how I found it out and that I observed it countless times and studied it you tell me I watched it "this one time".
im pretty much done with this argument idk,don't see why I should try to explain something to someone that doesn't even read or understand what I write.
On April 09 2014 05:37 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 04:33 Ru ba wrote:
I genuinely wonder if any of you played zvz in your life.or meepo for that matter
if not try it and than come back and tell me microing naga illusions is hard.
I genuinely wonder if you've played naga before. Do you have a replay I can take a look at for my amusement?
no you can't,but there's a reason for it
if you want to think im a skilles newb that's fine we can end the argument on that note
I think it's pretty clear from my posts and older ones that I know what I'm talking about,at least to some extent
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On April 09 2014 05:33 Veles wrote:
You're saying naga is easy because some the abstract tasks that are central to naga play are easy to preform. However, there are many details involved in playing a hero that aren't revealed even when you watch PoV streams.
Instead of reducing naga down to a model and trying to understand why/how she is played, I think you should study the impact that naga has on games. When there are noticeble differences between pro naga players, Its clear that naga has an extremely high skill cap.
To be fair, there are noticeble difference between pro players in a shitton of heroes. Even for something like Naix.
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On April 09 2014 05:40 Ru ba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:32 Plansix wrote:On April 09 2014 05:21 Ru ba wrote:On April 09 2014 05:19 Plansix wrote:
You can't just straw man your way through this argument and say that "this one time I watched a replay of this high level player and he just Amoved his way to glory". lol ok bro Sorry, it's a shit argument. It's like saying all left handed baseball patches pitch like shit because you saw one of them throw some shitty pitches during practice. I specifically tell you how something is done,you tell me I'm making shit up and straw man argue. I tell you how I found it out and that I observed it countless times and studied it you tell me I watched it "this one time". im pretty much done with this argument idk,don't see why I should try to explain something to someone that doesn't even read or understand what I write.
I understood what you wrote and I told you it was shit. One player Amoving some of the time does not equal all players playing that hero.
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On April 09 2014 05:42 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 05:33 Veles wrote:
You're saying naga is easy because some the abstract tasks that are central to naga play are easy to preform. However, there are many details involved in playing a hero that aren't revealed even when you watch PoV streams.
Instead of reducing naga down to a model and trying to understand why/how she is played, I think you should study the impact that naga has on games. When there are noticeble differences between pro naga players, Its clear that naga has an extremely high skill cap. To be fair, there are noticeble difference between pro players in a shitton of heroes. Even for something like Naix.
Well ya, dota isn't angry birds. Its hard to play successfully on a pro level, and different players are good at different heroes.
By ruba's line of reasoning naix just hits r and right clicks things, so ez.
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I'm assuming r is rage in legacy keys?
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I couldn't individually hotkey each illusion when I played naga once, otherwise it's pretty easy to micro illusions by double tap-> issue command. But then people can just use cycle -> focus x3(4) so it's only marginally harder.
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
On April 09 2014 05:49 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm assuming r is rage in legacy keys?
Yep.
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Is anyone else having a nightmare of an experience on the NA servers? Three games in a row people getting dropped right away
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microing naga illusions isnt especially hard, neither is farming two lanes with illusions without radiance. always start with the ranged creep.
ur all plebs
xept teemo i won an aram with him op champions backstab all day
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On April 09 2014 04:33 Ru ba wrote:
I genuinely wonder if any of you played zvz in your life.or meepo for that matter
if not try it and than come back and tell me microing naga illusions is hard.
Yo. I was zerg and ZvZ was by far my best matchup, because lings are kings, and banes/mutas ain't bad either.
I don't know how you can reference ZvZ as the pinnacle of micro when at most you're microing on two fronts + macroing simultaneously and then say Naga is super easy by comparison when you should be microing on at least two fronts and maintaining decent use of your hero as well. Especially considering how fucking up illusion micro and not killing a creep wave / neutral camp can be just as punishing as fucking up bane micro...
I dunno. Watch first person of EE's naga, then watch first person of RTZ's naga, then watch first person of your own naga, THEN come back and tell me that the micro is so easy you could teach a monkey to do it.
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EPT
