EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 5092
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Ru ba
Serbia1812 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On April 05 2014 05:08 Ru ba wrote: there's nothing better than seeing a team dog or w/e cheese out a legit team out of TI Really, there isn't. Remember how great it was seeing Liquid beat LGD.cn? Underdog victories are the best. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Nobody is complaining that some limited qualifiers don't make sense. But a qualifier only tournament would suck ass. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On April 05 2014 05:11 Sn0_Man wrote: LGD.cn went to TI3 through the qualifiers because they were dumb as bricks not because the qualifiers were necessary for them. They received an invite and then invalidated it themselves. Nobody is complaining that some limited qualifiers don't make sense. But a qualifier only tournament would suck ass. teapoted is complaining that limited qualifiers don't make sense. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
and he also seems to think that qualifiers happen all in a week, ignoring the way that actual tournaments like starladder run them And also, LGD.cn thought they needed to switch up their team. If they hadn't switched up their team to keep the invite, they would have ended up with an inadequate team. They totally needed the qualifier. They're exactly what the qualifiers exist for. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Ru ba
Serbia1812 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 05 2014 05:13 Acritter wrote: ya he is The qualifiers exist for those teams that haven't done enough to deserve to be there. The ones where it's difficult to say who you should be cutting and who you should be inviting. If I'm understanding him correctly, he considers this to be a valid and legitimate use for qualifiers, but that it's bs to try and expand their role in determing TI spots beyond that. On this point, I agree with him. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On April 05 2014 05:06 Acritter wrote: 1. I don't see the point you're making in the first paragraph. If a team that wins tournament X Y Z isn't the same team anymore, they don't get the invite. If they start playing like utter shit for a long enough period, they probably won't get it either (if there are enough strong teams out there). Either way, there is no point here, as this can happen with qualified teams as well. And it's more likely to happen with qualified teams because they haven't demonstrated consistent results or stability.The reason is that TI is held once a year. Teams usually change more than once a year, unless they are Na'Vi or Alliance. There's no guarantee that the team that won events X Y and Z prior to TIwhateverthefuck is the same team that won events beforehand. That's not even mentioning the very real possibility that a team that tears it up earlier in the year can completely fly off the handle for unclear reasons. So, then, your invites might not actually be the best teams. That's why TI allows for 5 qualifier-based slots, which are a way for a team who's just coming on the up-and-up to get a chance to prove their worth. Or, to put it in the bluntest possible terms: it gave LGD.cn a chance to play in TI3 last year, which they definitely deserved based on their performance at the event. Furthermore, it will give Liquid a chance to come back from FLUFF this year, though it's a stretch to say they'll do extremely well. So, now: why shouldn't LGD.cn have gotten the chance to prove themselves that way? Why shouldn't Liquid get the chance this year? It's also kind of laughable that you think that those other tournaments aren't more than valuable enough on their own merits. Money is money, wins bring fans and sponsors, and the kind of person who will play a game for a living is the kind of person who likes winning for its own sake. 2. LGD got a punishment, the qualifier was an easy way for them to be punished. If the qualifiers didn't exist, LGD would have been punished in another way. If they didn't exist, maybe they wouldn't be so strict about team rosters. We don't know, either way, the qualifier system doesn't exist so teams who would have been invited can drop players and then play in the qualifier. You're also making it sound like I don't think there should be any qualifiers, which isn't the case. I said what they are there for, and they serve that purpose. LGD changed their roster, in the eyes of Valve, that means it's questionable if they deserve to be there because they don't know if they would perform as well as they did to get the invite, thus they go to the quals (I don't really believe this, but that's more in line with why they are in the qualifier other than 'being made an example of', which is what I actually believe happened). 3. Learn to read. I didn't say that tournaments become valueless. I said they become devalued. If you have listened to any player talk about the scene for the past 3 years you know how important TI is for them and how little some of them claim (I won't say they 100% believe it themselves but it's what they say) to care about other tournaments. The fact that winning any of these major tournaments gets them into TI is enormous. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 05 2014 05:18 Ru ba wrote: tbh I can't think of more than 8 teams right now that deserve a direct invite In my mind I can think of 8 teams that deserve a direct invite, plus two more invites for SEA and NA because there's virtually no chance those regions don't get at least one invite apiece. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On April 05 2014 05:13 Acritter wrote: Jesus, LGD is exactly what the qualifier exists for? Are you serious?ya he is and he also seems to think that qualifiers happen all in a week, ignoring the way that actual tournaments like starladder run them And also, LGD.cn thought they needed to switch up their team. If they hadn't switched up their team to keep the invite, they would have ended up with an inadequate team. They totally needed the qualifier. They're exactly what the qualifiers exist for. And, "actual tournaments like starladder"? Are you saying the majority of leagues in Dota have a tiered league system? Or is StarLadder the only 'actual tournament'? Have you watched eSports for more than 20 minutes, because I'm quite sure most 'actual tournaments' don't run tiered leagues instead of qualifiers. And the ones that do, run over a very long period of time. Something which TI would 'never' do. And again, something that would hurt other tournaments. I don't know if you're confusing StarLadder's 'qualifiers' with StarLadder's online stage. Because those things are quite different. | ||
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Ru ba
Serbia1812 Posts
On April 05 2014 05:25 TheYango wrote: In my mind I can think of 8 teams that deserve a direct invite, plus two more invites for SEA and NA because there's virtually no chance those regions don't get at least one invite apiece. I think giving out 1 direct invite each for NA and SEA is fair. But other than that I'd give 3 out for EU and 3 for China and that's it,ship everyone else off to the qualifiers. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
Replied to wrong post | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 05 2014 05:06 Acritter wrote: It's also kind of laughable that you think that those other tournaments aren't more than valuable enough on their own merits. Money is money, wins bring fans and sponsors, and the kind of person who will play a game for a living is the kind of person who likes winning for its own sake. Teams playing less serious and saving strats in less important tournaments has been a very real thing that has affected game quality in E-sports tournaments for years. In this case, the value of a TI3 invite absolutely dwarfs the reward of most smaller tournaments if you consider the relative prestige of being at TI in terms of opportunities for sponsorship/etc. So if TI ran a long-duration qualifier-heavy qualification system, yes, it would have a very real impact on other tournaments. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
Regarding the supposed failure of those who won last year's qualifiers: no. LGD didn't suck. Now, you're going to say "Well that's an exception, everyone knew they were good enough for a direct invite but the roster change, etc.." OK, guess what? The team they replaced in the qualifier spot, TongFu, finished 4th, i.e. higher than LGD. Further, last place for both Group A and B were invites, not qualifiers. Again, invites are good. Definitely keep them. But the balance between qualifier:invite needs to be changed at least a little. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On April 05 2014 06:53 Sn0_Man wrote: its 11 invites less than 13 relax I thought that was a rumour, no? Regardless, I can't think of 11 clear invites any more than I can think of 13, and any list I've seen has been highly debatable. I also don't know what makes you think I'm anything but relaxed. | ||
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Ru ba
Serbia1812 Posts
it's like capsing,just makes you look juvenile we understand your point | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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