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On March 12 2014 02:16 cecek wrote:
Honestly, I think people are way overrating drums and underrating sny now. The days when sny was a shit pub item are long gone. For the past couple patches, drums have been getting nerfed and sny buffed. Since 6.74, sny got +4 damage, +1 AS, +1% maim chance, +2% slow, +1s slow duration, +4% MS bonus and you can disassamble it. At the same time, drums had the cost increased by 125 gold, lost 6 damage and gained a charge.
It's also like, 200 cheaper than it used to be.
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On March 12 2014 02:26 Daozzt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2014 02:23 andyrau wrote:On March 12 2014 02:10 Sn0_Man wrote:
Maim is ass on drow. how is maim ass on drow 32% movespeed and attackspeed slow that's almost a skadi slow On March 12 2014 02:16 cecek wrote:
Honestly, I think people are way overrating drums and underrating sny now. The days when sny was a shit pub item are long gone. For the past couple patches, drums have been getting nerfed and sny buffed. Since 6.74, sny got +4 damage, +1 AS, +1% maim chance, +2% slow, +1s slow duration, +4% MS bonus and you can disassamble it. At the same time, drums had the cost increased by 125 gold, lost 6 damage and gained a charge. I remember a time in dota 1 where everyone got sny It's bad if you have frost arrows on auto cast and never alternate/manual cast.
Maim isn't an orb any longer.
Oh, sorry for the double post. Completely forgot about that.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:26 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2014 02:16 cecek wrote:
Honestly, I think people are way overrating drums and underrating sny now. The days when sny was a shit pub item are long gone. For the past couple patches, drums have been getting nerfed and sny buffed. Since 6.74, sny got +4 damage, +1 AS, +1% maim chance, +2% slow, +1s slow duration, +4% MS bonus and you can disassamble it. At the same time, drums had the cost increased by 125 gold, lost 6 damage and gained a charge. It's also like, 200 cheaper than it used to be.
More than that, depending on how far back you want to go.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Drums and Yasha:
gold cost: 3900
+25 Agility
+9 Strength
+9 Intelligence
+3 Damage
+10+5% Movement Speed + Show Spoiler +not sure how exactly these stack. Is +10+5% the same as +15%?
+20 Attack Speed
drums active
2 inventory slots
Sange and Yasha
gold cost: 4100
+16 Strength
+16 Agility
+16 Damage
+16 Attack speed
+16% Movement speed
main passive
You get more damage, more hp and more movement speed out of sny. I think unless you're sure you're about to force 5v5 fights and can get good mileage out of the drum charges (i.e. you're on a team with a plan that's communicating), sny is going to be better for you most of the time.
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ur gold cost is kinda off.
you get some extra dmg from the drums as drow due to ur aura benefits. plus the attackspeed. Plus the active. Its kinda just categorically better excepting for HP.
1% ms is FAR LESS RELEVANT than 5 charges of 10% ms.
Drum charges are absolutely not only for 5v5 engagements btw. They are fine in 1v1, escapes, chases, hell even pushes.
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1 item slot vs 2 is pretty huge. Something that "I did the math" people don't realize.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean, the assumption here is that you're going in with the intent of building one or the other from the get-go, which makes no sense, because nobody should be doing that with Drums on Drow regardless.
The kind of situation where you start considering S&Y is when you have like Aquila HoD BKB Yasha and your options are like save for Crit/BFly/Satanic, sell Aquila and buy some random shit like Crystalys or make S&Y. And if you need to fight RIGHT NOW and can't straight-buy one of the bigger items you want, S&Y can realistically be the best option. You don't need to compare Drums+Yasha vs S&Y because we already know going straight S&Y first item is silly.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
I think all +% movespeed use your base movespeed, so 10+5% should be the same as 15%
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Yeah but thats wat EE's been doing which is what we r flaming.
@Daozzt i explained why the item slot argument is quite irrelevant earlier.
Regardless, I'm not even saying "go drums on drow" I'm saying "SnY is so bad you could go drums and it'd be better".
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I don't even get what you wanna say with this comparison.
Are you looking for a hero that's currently building drums and yasha(which turns into a manta) and not looking to get sny?
That would be like what,gyro?Everyone else that builds stuff like that eventually get's sny,the popular term is race car build i guess.
im kinda confused
ah nvm were talking about drow,didn't even know people build drums on drow lol
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
It was a typo. Meant to write 3900, wrote 3090 instead. The extra 9 agility drums+yasha gives you over sny is 3 damage from precision aura. Honestly, it pretty much comes down to if you want 5 drum charges or 133hp and the passive main.
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if ee saw this conversation about people building drums and sny on drow he'd commit seppuku
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Netherlands45349 Posts
One does not simply question EE's vision
I tried his Treads MoM Blink Mjolnir build but I still don't get why he gets a Mjolnir, I find MKB/Crit to be way better, you already farm fast enough and it doesn't help you farm ancients. Blink however, is amazing.
But who am I to question his eminence.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:39 cecek wrote:
It was a typo. Meant to write 3900, wrote 3090 instead. The extra 9 agility drums+yasha gives you over sny is 3 damage from precision aura. Honestly, it pretty much comes down to if you want 5 drum charges or 133hp and the passive main.
It's 3 damage from a max rank Precision Aura. Precision Aura shouldn't be maxed by the time you have Drums or Drums+Yasha.
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SnY is like a 4-5th slot item (including a tp scroll) for drow when people consider buying it. If you go drums yasha you'll end up having to sell the drums almost immediately because you need slots. Also no one explained at all how SnY is bad. It's cost/slot efficient, the ms is good, the stats are good, the maim is good. Yes manta is better on some heroes, but not on drow.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
What I don't get is why people upgrade to Mjolnir immediately. It's 2600 gold for attack speed. Nobody gives a fuck about the static shield, and even the chain lightning upgrade is not that crazy from meal to mjol. It goes from 4 to 8 targets and from 120 to 160 damage. Why don't people just go a different damage item after the mealstrom?
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Because the shield is actually crazy strong and people do give a fuck about it.
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it's pretty hard to gauge the full usefulness of an item that has a 20% proc chance on the shield and 25% chance when you're hitting stuff.If you think about it the best case scenario is fucking stupid and broken,but how often that really occurs and what the situation looks like on a more consistent basis is different thing.
A lot of pros seem to really believe in it,like I've seen a lot of lifestealers running that thing now instead of a classic sny or w/e
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United States47024 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:46 cecek wrote:
What I don't get is why people upgrade to Mjolnir immediately. It's 2600 gold for attack speed. Nobody gives a fuck about the static shield, and even the chain lightning upgrade is not that crazy from meal to mjol. It goes from 4 to 8 targets and from 120 to 160 damage. Why don't people just go a different damage item after the mealstrom?
Because it farms faster.
The scenario where you bought Mael to do something other than farm only applies to a small number of heroes, and the Mjoll just does more of what you bought the Mael to do.
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On March 12 2014 02:56 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2014 02:46 cecek wrote:
What I don't get is why people upgrade to Mjolnir immediately. It's 2600 gold for attack speed. Nobody gives a fuck about the static shield, and even the chain lightning upgrade is not that crazy from meal to mjol. It goes from 4 to 8 targets and from 120 to 160 damage. Why don't people just go a different damage item after the mealstrom? Because it farms faster. The scenario where you bought Mael to do something other than farm only applies to a small number of heroes, and the Mjoll just does more of what you bought the Mael to do.
The mjollnir shield is crazy good right now.
Its insane how much damage that thing can do.
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EPT
