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On February 19 2014 19:30 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 18:31 Esoterikk wrote:On February 19 2014 17:39 BlitzerSC wrote:On February 19 2014 09:57 idonthinksobro wrote:
as if anyone will pick this hero in pro dota. He needs way too much farm to be of any use Boots of speed + TP scroll. SO MUCH FARM. I get the distinct feeling people don't realize that bola's do damage, I see people completely skipping them and it boggles me. Ember spirit is really weak to any sort of disable or debuff, be it stun, slow or silence. Drums into bf or drums into desolator is extremly greedy and can be punished. If you compare him to a luna which is a "fair" comparison he needs like twice the farm to be as strong as luna without the burst potential of a luna eclipse.
Luna is really weak to any sort of disable or debuff, be it stun, slow or silence. Helm of Dominator into Yasha or Yasha into Helm of Dominator, is extremly greedy and can be punished. If you compare her to a Ember Spirit, which is a "fair comparison", she needs like twice the farm to be as strong as Ember Spirit without the burst potential of Searing Chains + Sleight of Fist.
Nice theorycraft btw.
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How did ember do in the two game he was picked in today?
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On February 19 2014 19:46 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 19:30 idonthinksobro wrote:On February 19 2014 18:31 Esoterikk wrote:On February 19 2014 17:39 BlitzerSC wrote:On February 19 2014 09:57 idonthinksobro wrote:
as if anyone will pick this hero in pro dota. He needs way too much farm to be of any use Boots of speed + TP scroll. SO MUCH FARM. I get the distinct feeling people don't realize that bola's do damage, I see people completely skipping them and it boggles me. Ember spirit is really weak to any sort of disable or debuff, be it stun, slow or silence. Drums into bf or drums into desolator is extremly greedy and can be punished. If you compare him to a luna which is a "fair" comparison he needs like twice the farm to be as strong as luna without the burst potential of a luna eclipse. Luna is really weak to any sort of disable or debuff, be it stun, slow or silence. Helm of Dominator into Yasha or Yasha into Helm of Dominator, is extremly greedy and can be punished. If you compare her to a Ember Spirit, which is a "fair comparison", she needs like twice the farm to be as strong as Ember Spirit without the burst potential of Searing Chains + Sleight of Fist. Nice theorycraft btw.
I think you guys forget his big assets, ult and SoF. If someone has some level of gamesence its hard to kill an ember,
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On February 19 2014 19:46 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 19:30 idonthinksobro wrote:On February 19 2014 18:31 Esoterikk wrote:On February 19 2014 17:39 BlitzerSC wrote:On February 19 2014 09:57 idonthinksobro wrote:
as if anyone will pick this hero in pro dota. He needs way too much farm to be of any use Boots of speed + TP scroll. SO MUCH FARM. I get the distinct feeling people don't realize that bola's do damage, I see people completely skipping them and it boggles me. Ember spirit is really weak to any sort of disable or debuff, be it stun, slow or silence. Drums into bf or drums into desolator is extremly greedy and can be punished. If you compare him to a luna which is a "fair" comparison he needs like twice the farm to be as strong as luna without the burst potential of a luna eclipse. Luna is really weak to any sort of disable or debuff, be it stun, slow or silence. Helm of Dominator into Yasha or Yasha into Helm of Dominator, is extremly greedy and can be punished. If you compare her to a Ember Spirit, which is a "fair comparison", she needs like twice the farm to be as strong as Ember Spirit without the burst potential of Searing Chains + Sleight of Fist. Nice theorycraft btw.
Luna is way stronger with just bkb. Ember has lower armor, lower magical burst damage, lower range and less damage with only bkb. You can't really rush a bkb and go for pushes with Ember like with Luna. I think when you would go for those 5man pushes on a team with Luna, at the same time you want Ember to be already snowballing from ganks. Both heroes are very different, imo.
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Comparing Luna and Ember is dumb seeing as how they're usually run in completely different roles.
I think Ember will see a lot of play.
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I don't think so. If Storm who farms faster, zips better, kills better can't make it past eternalenvy's feverish attempts to force him as meta, then neither will Ember.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Hey guys, short question. Haven't played Doto for 2 months, what changes were made? I heard Phoenix and Terrorblade were added. What else? Any noticeable nerfs/buffs? Items changes?
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earthshaker is back with a vengance. calling him as most picked ti4 support. also invoker is hip now. otherwise not much.
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On February 19 2014 20:33 beef42 wrote:
I don't think so. If Storm who farms faster, zips better, kills better can't make it past eternalenvy's feverish attempts to force him as meta, then neither will Ember.
Ember has such a stupidly good map-presence with BoTs coupled with the ability to devastate mid-game teamfights if he gets up a decently timed Deso.
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Ember's main issue (strength?) is still his oddball power curve.
He's weak in lane, then terrifying in ganks, then relatively weak in teamfights around the single-item timings (BKB luna etc), then begins to build again as he stacks lategame items. The deso build changes that to a more standard snowball curve by keeping him relevant in midgame teamfights, but seriously delays his big tickets.
To me, he needs to smash the earlygame or have a team which is 100% built around him, and that makes him telegraphed and easily counterable.
He's usually being run as a 2 when people pick him up now, right?
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On February 19 2014 20:56 Xypski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 20:33 beef42 wrote:
I don't think so. If Storm who farms faster, zips better, kills better can't make it past eternalenvy's feverish attempts to force him as meta, then neither will Ember. Ember has such a stupidly good map-presence with BoTs coupled with the ability to devastate mid-game teamfights if he gets up a decently timed Deso.
Yeah, going BoTs into desolator is a great idea on a hero with terrible starting stats and stat gain. He's also super mana intensive, so you'll be constantly out of mana with tht build.
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On February 19 2014 21:27 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 20:56 Xypski wrote:On February 19 2014 20:33 beef42 wrote:
I don't think so. If Storm who farms faster, zips better, kills better can't make it past eternalenvy's feverish attempts to force him as meta, then neither will Ember. Ember has such a stupidly good map-presence with BoTs coupled with the ability to devastate mid-game teamfights if he gets up a decently timed Deso. Yeah, going BoTs into desolator is a great idea on a hero with terrible starting stats and stat gain. He's also super mana intensive, so you'll be constantly out of mana with tht build.
I still don't think Deso is worthwhile on Ember but with BoTs or even just TPs, a single Bottle deals with all of Ember's mana issues until late-game.
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Haha! Just had a nice game when trying out TC's wraithking+radiance. I went radiance, bot, refresher, hot etcetcetc man, i was epicly unkillable. To bad rosh wasnt up yet, noone need bkb with 3 incarnations
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Xin is the true spiderman in this game. One needs to master his risk free global 3lanes farming skills and show that in pro game.
That said, I don't think there is any western carry player has that kind of micro and item understanding of this glass cannon melee carry. Very intrigued to see how will say player like Burning plays out the hero.
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On February 19 2014 21:27 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 20:56 Xypski wrote:On February 19 2014 20:33 beef42 wrote:
I don't think so. If Storm who farms faster, zips better, kills better can't make it past eternalenvy's feverish attempts to force him as meta, then neither will Ember. Ember has such a stupidly good map-presence with BoTs coupled with the ability to devastate mid-game teamfights if he gets up a decently timed Deso. Yeah, going BoTs into desolator is a great idea on a hero with terrible starting stats and stat gain. He's also super mana intensive, so you'll be constantly out of mana with tht build.
Yeah because stat-gain is all that determines a heroes survivability, right? Fuck skills?
Bottle/Wand/Drums take care of some of the mana issues, but yeah, heroes like Ember has mana problems, tough shit.
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I haven't seen a single game that made me think:
"yeah, that Emberspirit really showed his power and let them win that game."... I actually have rarely seen him win at all... Let alone be "the winning factor" for his team...
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A good ember spirit and omniknight can wreck in the early game phase and snowball from there
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United States47024 Posts
On February 19 2014 20:02 govie wrote:
I think you guys forget his big assets, ult and SoF. If someone has some level of gamesence its hard to kill an ember,
Not till they fix this:
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=115659
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On February 19 2014 21:23 Belisarius wrote:
Ember's main issue (strength?) is still his oddball power curve.
He's weak in lane, then terrifying in ganks, then relatively weak in teamfights around the single-item timings (BKB luna etc), then begins to build again as he stacks lategame items. The deso build changes that to a more standard snowball curve by keeping him relevant in midgame teamfights, but seriously delays his big tickets.
To me, he needs to smash the earlygame or have a team which is 100% built around him, and that makes him telegraphed and easily counterable.
He's usually being run as a 2 when people pick him up now, right?
This combined with Yangoa bug post ensures this hero wont be more than a pocket pick unless there is some new revolutionary build / strat with him we havent seen. Well, CIS players might like him.
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On February 19 2014 20:36 739 wrote:
Hey guys, short question. Haven't played Doto for 2 months, what changes were made? I heard Phoenix and Terrorblade were added. What else? Any noticeable nerfs/buffs? Items changes?
6.80 patchnotes and discussion:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442019
Notable changes: Brood mother no longer retarded, also no longer playable. Same for Earth Spirit.
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EPT
