EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 4658
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On January 08 2014 03:41 govie wrote: Thats sounds unlogical to me. When enemy has much armour u dont use anti-armour but magic. And when he has less armour we try to reduce his armour without magicdamage? Wierd aint it!  Dont underestimate atos atm, certainly against racecars like that maiden with the ghosts. The slow is really long duration, long initiation (no other item has this, at night u can slow people before they even see you). Its a relatively cheap item which could have big impact. Supports could benefit greatly from it Although i would pair it up with a nightstalkerstrat, because the range on atos is its biggest asset and combines well with the nightstalkerultimate. Yes, i am one of the few that actually uses atos on certain supports (low+midrange mmr). Armor reduction diminishes in effectiveness as an enemy gets more armor. (I forget the Yango-approved terms for this, but the graph slopes up rather than being a steady line). That means that Deso is better against heroes that don't get a lot of armor because it will do more against them. An enemy with high armor however will take more damage from magic though so it's better to get the magic damage from the lightning proc against heroes like that. As far as stacking orbs goes, remember chain lightning only acts as an override to other orbs when you have it, so you can still have that and lifesteal, you just won't lifesteal on the procs (which isn't that big of an issue because of the bug where it won't let you have more than one lightning bouncing around). I do wish they'd fix that bug btw as it really does cripple the usefulness of the item. EDIT: BTW if orbs stacked, brood would literally be the worst hero to play against. Diffusal first every game on her if I could. | ||
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Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
Honestly, the game ranked me even higher than I would rank myself probably, even though I dont know what the average ranking should be. My Timer post didnt get answered properly aswell. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
"average" mmr is 2250. Most frequent posters on the TL dota forums range from 3-5.5K mmr. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 08 2014 04:37 LeLoup wrote: I do wish they'd fix that bug btw as it really does cripple the usefulness of the item. I think it's a mixed bag, really. A lot of the heroes that might want the item in DotA 2 were it not for that bug weren't buying the item anyway in DotA 1 because it was an orb on EVERY attack, not just procs, meaning that it would lock them out of being able to get stronger lategame orbs like Lifesteal. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On January 08 2014 05:10 TheYango wrote: I think it's a mixed bag, really. A lot of the heroes that might want the item in DotA 2 were it not for that bug weren't buying the item anyway in DotA 1 because it was an orb on EVERY attack, not just procs, meaning that it would lock them out of being able to get stronger lategame orbs like Lifesteal. That is true, but it really does cripple the effectiveness of mjolnir to the point where it's almost pointless to get the item I feel. Maybe it's an item that IF could take a look at reworking but idk. One thought off the top of my head right now is have it do a magic damage aoe proc, but I never got into the Dota 1 engine enough to know if it could do that. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On January 08 2014 04:37 LeLoup wrote: Armor reduction diminishes in effectiveness as an enemy gets more armor. (I forget the Yango-approved terms for this, but the graph slopes up rather than being a steady line). if i am not mistaken this is not true from a effective health point of view. if i recall correctly the armor equations has no diminishing returns in it and is perfectly linear. (might change in the negative, not sure) for dota: 1 armor increases effective hp by 6%, 2 armor by 12, 10 armor gives 60% effective hp and 20 armor 120%. i dont know if there is a cap somewhere, but armor definately has a linear effect on health and thus, armor reduction has a linear effect too. | ||
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Kazzoo
France368 Posts
What if when you're in a situation where it's not obvious who has to stun first, you just pinged the guy and whoever pinged first stuns first. You lose almost no time, and it's much easier thant typing. Can we make that a thing guys ? | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On January 08 2014 06:50 hfglgg wrote: if i am not mistaken this is not true from a effective health point of view. if i recall correctly the armor equations has no diminishing returns in it and is perfectly linear. (might change in the negative, not sure) for dota: 1 armor increases effective hp by 6%, 2 armor by 12, 10 armor gives 60% effective hp and 20 armor 120%. i dont know if there is a cap somewhere, but armor definately has a linear effect on health and thus, armor reduction has a linear effect too. Yeah, my mistake on that. I just had the shape of the graph wrong. Still the idea is right. You want -armor when it's more effective (at low values) and magic damage when armor gets too high. For those that are interested the graph is: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/thumb/4/4c/Armor2dm.svg/512px-Armor2dm.svg.png) | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
If they are both hit by the deso orb, they end up with 1.18k ehp and 2.38k ehp, respectively. The reduction is linear, in that they both lose 420 ehp, but when you look at it relative to their total ehp at the time they take the orb, the guy with 10 armour loses 29% of his ehp, while the guy with 30 armour only loses 15% ehp. For the guy with 30 armour, he still has so much ehp left that you would have been better off just building more damage in the first place. I'm pretty sure anyway. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
However, from a damage perspective, it doesn't work that way. If I do 100 dmg and the target has 6 armor then I actually end up doing like 73.5 damage. If I add the deso effect then the target has 0 armor and I do 100 dmg so I added like 26.5 dmg. more than 1/3 extra dmg. If I do 100 dmg and the target has 20 armor then I actually end up doing like 45.5 damage. If I add the deso effect then the target has 14 armor and I do 54.4 damage so I added less than 9 dmg. less than 1/5 extra dmg. So once the target has high armor, lowering the armor is likely less useful than just raising your damage numbers. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On January 08 2014 05:07 Sn0_Man wrote: Timber keeps the existing charges. I assume he gets the new ones as well since hex doesn't disable passives, it only disables specific things (evasion for example). "average" mmr is 2250. Most frequent posters on the TL dota forums range from 3-5.5K mmr. elite community ! Or bunch of liars huhu | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Sometimes I feel like the more you know about dota the less fun it is rofl. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
Prepare to be floored | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On January 08 2014 05:07 Sn0_Man wrote: "average" mmr is 2250. Most frequent posters on the TL dota forums range from 3-5.5K mmr. where did you get this info? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
the figure for TL dota posters is essentially based on just what I've observed people claim their MMRs are etc. Its pretty easy to spot the sub-3K MMR posters by the kinds of questions they ask, but very few of them have very many posts in the Dota 2 forums. 3-5.5K is a biiiiig range. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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