General Discussion - Page 4416

On November 27 2013 16:33 FuzzyJAM wrote:

If you're playing because you want to have a better rating - i.e. have evidence that you're a better player than others - I'd say that's very definitely "hardcore".

On November 27 2013 17:15 BlitzerSC wrote:


You mean like this ?



:D:D.

On November 27 2013 17:24 TheYango wrote:

Late to the party, but this is an important point to emphasize.

People juxtaposing the "casual-ness" of DotA as an alternative to laddering WC3 vs. the current "hardcore" attitude toward the game are disregarding the evolution of the game thanks to Icefrog. DotA pre-Icefrog WAS casual because that was how the game was designed. But part of what Icefrog did to DotA--what made him exceptional as a developer for DotA--was bring in a competitive vision of the game. He was the first to see DotA as a game with competitive potential and he actively developed DotA around this vision. Thus, while DotA in the hands of every other developer was a casual game, it grew into a competitive game under Icefrog's guidance because that's the direction he wanted to take the game.

On November 26 2013 23:02 Itsmedudeman wrote:

If I were going to create a new game I would definitely not implement a turn rate. The depth of turn rate is pretty minimal compared to other game mechanics and all it does is make people who come from games like LoL/HoN feel awkward. I know several people who just couldn't get into dota solely because of turn rate mechanics.

On November 27 2013 18:17 TheYango wrote:
That's why you don't skill Surge at level 1.

On November 27 2013 22:09 Targe wrote:
are there melee carries in lol? i cant remember there being one back when i played

On November 27 2013 17:49 Talin wrote:


People play platformers to beat personal records and get higher leaderboard ranks, but that's rarely associated with the term "hardcore", except perhaps at the highest level. On the other hand, even many apparently causal single player games foster communities of incredibly hardcore players (Minecraft or Kerbal Space Program come to mind)

Hardcore play is generally associated with acting on the desire to master the system. Someone wanting to win in a game that's all about winning doesn't make them hardcore, and neither would wanting to get a higher ladder rank if there was a ladder. Making a focused effort to learn, practice and improve is what makes a hardcore player, which is really not something that the majority of playerbase will ever care enough to do in most games.

On November 27 2013 22:25 Numy wrote:


With the new offlane I'd imagine it's not as bad as it could be.



There are. They just define them as stuff like "bruisers" then create some arbitrary distinction to claim they aren't akin to Dota melee carries even though typically the itemization is actually pretty similiar. I'm guessing you assume a melee carry must build basically glass cannon with maybe bkb as their only defensive item when in fact melee carries in dota actually get quite a lot of defense besides that it's just a lot of it is in the form of hybrid items.

When people talk about melee carries in LoL they make the assumption that they should be akin to ranged carries in going pure offensive with maybe a GA or 1 defensive item. Dota has no melee hero that does that either so if we were to go by this metric you would have to ask why are there no melee carries in Dota or LoL.

On November 27 2013 22:01 -Celestial- wrote:


Honestly that's their problem, not DOTA2's. Turn rates are an important aspect of additional depth and complexity to the game.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure I read somewhere they're part of the reason why melee carries are way more viable/common in DOTA2 than LoL.