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On November 23 2013 00:47 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 00:36 Nixer wrote:On November 22 2013 23:01 Laserist wrote:
Even I improved my Dota knowledge multiple times since I watch Tobi cast for the first time. He stays at the same spot from the beginning. He doesn't even try to improve. Anyone can pass the point where Tobi is by mildly interested in Dota.
Compare him with BTS, which are considerably improved over time, also more colorful and more value in production, there is simply no way for Tobi to compete with them. We can argue that there shouldn't be any competition but when there is money on the table, it can't go otherwise.
Tobi should have tried harder to stay on top instead of relying "shouting". He doesn't even try to improve? Come on, perhaps he could try harder, but that's just pure fallacy. I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have. because people are stupid. the days where tobi didnt know how most of the more complicated spells worked are over for a long long time now and if a patch is live for a couple of month is predictions in the drafting stages are astonishly good for a non pro player. people just like to hate, thats all.
Surely noone can have an opinion different than yours, clearly they're just haters.
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Or that is because of the patch and the namechanges.
Edit: unlikely, but maybe.
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Well thats a huge improvement from how I would have expected tobi to react on twitter so yay.
I'm really not a tobi fan but he fills a niche and with the right cocaster he's great. He actually has improved no matter what you say but he still has some really obnoxious tendencies.
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On November 23 2013 01:05 itsdamuffinman wrote:
Or that is because of the patch and the namechanges.
Edit: unlikely, but maybe.
Why would someone wait so long or be so upset about it?
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On November 23 2013 01:08 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 01:05 itsdamuffinman wrote:
Or that is because of the patch and the namechanges.
Edit: unlikely, but maybe. Why would someone wait so long or be so upset about it?
Every time an icon gets changed I see a lot of people posting comments that they are upset.
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On November 23 2013 01:09 SilverStar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 01:08 Grettin wrote:On November 23 2013 01:05 itsdamuffinman wrote:
Or that is because of the patch and the namechanges.
Edit: unlikely, but maybe. Why would someone wait so long or be so upset about it? Every time an icon gets changed I see a lot of people posting comments that they are upset.
So why wouldn't Tobi be allowed to express his opinions then? Why would he have to "Chill and think" or wait half a day to possibly comment on something like that? Just look at the tweet earlier. Makes no sense.
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On November 23 2013 00:59 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 00:47 hfglgg wrote:On November 23 2013 00:36 Nixer wrote:On November 22 2013 23:01 Laserist wrote:
Even I improved my Dota knowledge multiple times since I watch Tobi cast for the first time. He stays at the same spot from the beginning. He doesn't even try to improve. Anyone can pass the point where Tobi is by mildly interested in Dota.
Compare him with BTS, which are considerably improved over time, also more colorful and more value in production, there is simply no way for Tobi to compete with them. We can argue that there shouldn't be any competition but when there is money on the table, it can't go otherwise.
Tobi should have tried harder to stay on top instead of relying "shouting". He doesn't even try to improve? Come on, perhaps he could try harder, but that's just pure fallacy. I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have. because people are stupid. the days where tobi didnt know how most of the more complicated spells worked are over for a long long time now and if a patch is live for a couple of month is predictions in the drafting stages are astonishly good for a non pro player. people just like to hate, thats all. Improving doesn't mean learning spell names. He doesn't understand/analyze the game even in spectator level very well. Tobi is never considered as a technical caster but cmon, as a professional he can/should do much more better.
no he shouldnt. he should provide entertaining games and not analyzing it. for the analyzing part there should be a co caster and to be honest, the other studios arent that great at the on-the-fly analysis as well apart from merlini casting.
and its not their job. play-by-play casters should make the game exciting and more enjoyable, not analyizing it. i.e. that is something where lumi still fails horribly, when something goes bad for a team he just emphazises on how the game is over and/or how terrible some decisions were instead of the opposite, focussing on how one team has to fight to come back.
thats why lumi is a sub par play-by-play caster.
but i think people will never learn that casters have different roles and different approaches.
better get everything super deep analyzed so you can show off how good of a dota player you are!
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On November 23 2013 00:36 Nixer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 23:01 Laserist wrote:
Even I improved my Dota knowledge multiple times since I watch Tobi cast for the first time. He stays at the same spot from the beginning. He doesn't even try to improve. Anyone can pass the point where Tobi is by mildly interested in Dota.
Compare him with BTS, which are considerably improved over time, also more colorful and more value in production, there is simply no way for Tobi to compete with them. We can argue that there shouldn't be any competition but when there is money on the table, it can't go otherwise.
Tobi should have tried harder to stay on top instead of relying "shouting". He doesn't even try to improve? Come on, perhaps he could try harder, but that's just pure fallacy. I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have.
I just get tired of hearing the same dozen catchphrases used over and over again, especially when so many are just a little awkwardly phrased. Like 'up on him.' 'That's the power of the' whatever. Or just using extra words when he doesn't have to; "this is almost in a perfect position for Universe to farm up for." Or "it's up to the Magnus, it's up to the Prophet to..." instead of "it's up to the Magnus and the Prophet to...".
Is it a huge deal? No, it's really not. And Tobi has gotten much better, and his style has changed a bit. He used to be criticized for being fake and hyping things whether they deserved it or not. Now he's trying to be calmer, and that's not a bad thing. It's just that Tobi's commentary isn't enough to make up for jD's uninspired production.
I'm actually watching a Tobi VOD as I write, just to have it fresh. Man he says 'up' and 'off' a lot. "The Specter can get Fiend's Gripped up." "The Batrider finished up the Blink Dagger." YOU CAN'T FINISH UP A BLINK. It's not Drums. It's one item. You either have it or you don't. You can't have a partial Blink. "The ET ulti is what kills him off." It just kills him, Tobi. Less is more.
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On November 23 2013 00:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 00:47 hfglgg wrote:On November 23 2013 00:36 Nixer wrote:On November 22 2013 23:01 Laserist wrote:
Even I improved my Dota knowledge multiple times since I watch Tobi cast for the first time. He stays at the same spot from the beginning. He doesn't even try to improve. Anyone can pass the point where Tobi is by mildly interested in Dota.
Compare him with BTS, which are considerably improved over time, also more colorful and more value in production, there is simply no way for Tobi to compete with them. We can argue that there shouldn't be any competition but when there is money on the table, it can't go otherwise.
Tobi should have tried harder to stay on top instead of relying "shouting". He doesn't even try to improve? Come on, perhaps he could try harder, but that's just pure fallacy. I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have. because people are stupid. the days where tobi didnt know how most of the more complicated spells worked are over for a long long time now and if a patch is live for a couple of month is predictions in the drafting stages are astonishly good for a non pro player. people just like to hate, thats all. He suffers from the same problem tasteless and artosis had/have. If you existing long enough in the scene, people just wait to see you "fail" or "loose your passion". Then everyone jumps on the train and presents a lot of "evidence" as to why things have changed. Happened to day9, JP, DJ wheat and everyone else. It's just the nature of Internet fame.
There are also lots of people who've been around longer than he has who think he is and always has been poor.
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On November 23 2013 01:03 Unleashing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 00:47 hfglgg wrote:On November 23 2013 00:36 Nixer wrote:On November 22 2013 23:01 Laserist wrote:
Even I improved my Dota knowledge multiple times since I watch Tobi cast for the first time. He stays at the same spot from the beginning. He doesn't even try to improve. Anyone can pass the point where Tobi is by mildly interested in Dota.
Compare him with BTS, which are considerably improved over time, also more colorful and more value in production, there is simply no way for Tobi to compete with them. We can argue that there shouldn't be any competition but when there is money on the table, it can't go otherwise.
Tobi should have tried harder to stay on top instead of relying "shouting". He doesn't even try to improve? Come on, perhaps he could try harder, but that's just pure fallacy. I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have. because people are stupid. the days where tobi didnt know how most of the more complicated spells worked are over for a long long time now and if a patch is live for a couple of month is predictions in the drafting stages are astonishly good for a non pro player. people just like to hate, thats all. Surely noone can have an opinion different than yours, clearly they're just haters.
no they are two different things.
you can say that you dislike tobi for his casting, because you dont enjoy his style/voice/whatever. thats completly up to you. i for example would never watch a game casted by epi because i dont like his casting style at all.
but to state that tobi didnt improve is just not true at all and _not_ an opinion. you can not have an opinion on facts.
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On November 23 2013 01:15 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 01:03 Unleashing wrote:On November 23 2013 00:47 hfglgg wrote:On November 23 2013 00:36 Nixer wrote:On November 22 2013 23:01 Laserist wrote:
Even I improved my Dota knowledge multiple times since I watch Tobi cast for the first time. He stays at the same spot from the beginning. He doesn't even try to improve. Anyone can pass the point where Tobi is by mildly interested in Dota.
Compare him with BTS, which are considerably improved over time, also more colorful and more value in production, there is simply no way for Tobi to compete with them. We can argue that there shouldn't be any competition but when there is money on the table, it can't go otherwise.
Tobi should have tried harder to stay on top instead of relying "shouting". He doesn't even try to improve? Come on, perhaps he could try harder, but that's just pure fallacy. I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have. because people are stupid. the days where tobi didnt know how most of the more complicated spells worked are over for a long long time now and if a patch is live for a couple of month is predictions in the drafting stages are astonishly good for a non pro player. people just like to hate, thats all. Surely noone can have an opinion different than yours, clearly they're just haters. no they are two different things. you can say that you dislike tobi for his casting, because you dont enjoy his style/voice/whatever. thats completly up to you. i for example would never watch a game casted by epi because i dont like his casting style at all. but to state that tobi didnt improve is just not true at all and _not_ an opinion. you can not have an opinion on facts.
What if someone didn't feel tobi improved at all in the regards they felt he needed to improve in? I for one don't think he has improved at all in the aspects in which he annoys me majorly.
To me, he has not at all improved in any aspect that mattered to me. I have no problem with play-by-play casters and i know their role full and well, but it's fucking annoying to listen to the same catchphrases after 2 years with the same bad jokes and him saying shit like "Kotl blast" stuff like this is so annoying and a huge turn-off when he casts.
Saying shit like "Because people are stupid" in response to "I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have." and following it up with "people just like to hate, thats all." makes it look like you think anyone who dislikes tobi and thinks he hasn't improven are just stupid and are doing it just because they like to hate.
But hey, good to know that you get to decide what is opinion and what is fact, right? 
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On November 23 2013 01:15 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 00:57 Plansix wrote:On November 23 2013 00:47 hfglgg wrote:On November 23 2013 00:36 Nixer wrote:On November 22 2013 23:01 Laserist wrote:
Even I improved my Dota knowledge multiple times since I watch Tobi cast for the first time. He stays at the same spot from the beginning. He doesn't even try to improve. Anyone can pass the point where Tobi is by mildly interested in Dota.
Compare him with BTS, which are considerably improved over time, also more colorful and more value in production, there is simply no way for Tobi to compete with them. We can argue that there shouldn't be any competition but when there is money on the table, it can't go otherwise.
Tobi should have tried harder to stay on top instead of relying "shouting". He doesn't even try to improve? Come on, perhaps he could try harder, but that's just pure fallacy. I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have. because people are stupid. the days where tobi didnt know how most of the more complicated spells worked are over for a long long time now and if a patch is live for a couple of month is predictions in the drafting stages are astonishly good for a non pro player. people just like to hate, thats all. He suffers from the same problem tasteless and artosis had/have. If you existing long enough in the scene, people just wait to see you "fail" or "loose your passion". Then everyone jumps on the train and presents a lot of "evidence" as to why things have changed. Happened to day9, JP, DJ wheat and everyone else. It's just the nature of Internet fame. There are also lots of people who've been around longer than he has who think he is and always has been poor.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and no one is liked by everyone. Just because a group of people complain about him online doesn't mean they make up some significant number of people who dislike him. Complaints on the Internet should always be taken with a grain of slat and compaired to the over all population that is watching the event.
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Tobi will join BTS.
Deep down, you know it!
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Im gona say it right here: I dont like the recent casts of BTS. Its quite clear how slow they are to adapting to changes which has only 1 simple conclusion: they dont play the game as frequently as they used to before entering this scene professionally. Out of the entire BTS crews, I think Lumi is doing the best job and even he is slacking behind by a foreseeable margin. I cant believe I would hear Lumi questioning some simple mechanics in DotA2 which he supposed to know (thats the reason why they have him there) or asking about something the patch changed even though he made a show about the patch log. LD is more parting away from the game similar to how Tasteless and Tobi did: becoming a personality. Its not a bad thing but it feels like he is drifting out of touch and no longer the LD i like from the beginning. Godz is just straight up bad. What ever the hell this dude is smoking, he has neither play the game enough or cast the game at professional level enough. He is rusty and a lot of mistakes were made when I watched him last week.
If you think BTS has been improving, well I disagree. I think they are just being on the same boat as Tobi or any early days casters of sc2: they dont know+love the game enough to stick around for long. JP, HDstarcraft, catpajama, askjoshy, etc... were all slowly replaced by a generation of retired programmers and they moved on to become personalities and parts of management groups. But in the end, I think Tobi will stick around. The dude is a psychopath and he happens to love whats he doing and people love him for doing it. I just think JoinDotA is the key to most of his problems, that and Synderen is still pulling an 2011 Incontrol and try to play the game professionally.
In the near future, I would be looking out for the like of Bdiz,1437, merlini... If they play their cards right and move into contents creating, they will make stable money while building their own names with MLG. That would be the next generation of casters that an english audience deserved.
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On November 23 2013 01:40 Unleashing wrote:
him saying shit like "Kotl blast" stuff like this is so annoying and a huge turn-off when he casts.
How come him saying "Kotl blast" is a big turnoff but nobody complains when people say "Lina stun"...
People selectively choose things that bother them and then whine about it as if their own opinion was the only thing that matters.
Obviously this is just MY opinion but you are just as guilty of "deciding what is truth" as anybody else is. The fact that you dislike certain terms that tobi uses doesn't make tobi a bad caster.
The GD studio is at least as guilty of having their own pet names for a variety of abilities, for example. Not that I have any issue with that but its not like tobi is the only person who calls abilities weird stuff.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
i think of tobi like i think of TB in sc2, he's good for play by play but not for analysis
and stuff like kotl blast is fine, sounds way better in a cast than illuminate, pretty sure i say it on comms to ppl
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United States15275 Posts
On November 23 2013 01:12 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 00:59 Laserist wrote:On November 23 2013 00:47 hfglgg wrote:On November 23 2013 00:36 Nixer wrote:On November 22 2013 23:01 Laserist wrote:
Even I improved my Dota knowledge multiple times since I watch Tobi cast for the first time. He stays at the same spot from the beginning. He doesn't even try to improve. Anyone can pass the point where Tobi is by mildly interested in Dota.
Compare him with BTS, which are considerably improved over time, also more colorful and more value in production, there is simply no way for Tobi to compete with them. We can argue that there shouldn't be any competition but when there is money on the table, it can't go otherwise.
Tobi should have tried harder to stay on top instead of relying "shouting". He doesn't even try to improve? Come on, perhaps he could try harder, but that's just pure fallacy. I really don't understand some of the attitudes towards Tobi and the views some people have. because people are stupid. the days where tobi didnt know how most of the more complicated spells worked are over for a long long time now and if a patch is live for a couple of month is predictions in the drafting stages are astonishly good for a non pro player. people just like to hate, thats all. Improving doesn't mean learning spell names. He doesn't understand/analyze the game even in spectator level very well. Tobi is never considered as a technical caster but cmon, as a professional he can/should do much more better. no he shouldnt. he should provide entertaining games and not analyzing it. for the analyzing part there should be a co caster and to be honest, the other studios arent that great at the on-the-fly analysis as well apart from merlini casting. and its not their job. play-by-play casters should make the game exciting and more enjoyable, not analyizing it. i.e. that is something where lumi still fails horribly, when something goes bad for a team he just emphazises on how the game is over and/or how terrible some decisions were instead of the opposite, focussing on how one team has to fight to come back. thats why lumi is a sub par play-by-play caster. but i think people will never learn that casters have different roles and different approaches. better get everything super deep analyzed so you can show off how good of a dota player you are!
Drayskl is not good at on-the-fly analysis? >_>
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this mantra of play by play and analytical guy is what annoys me the most.
I don't give a shit as long as the cast is fun and does not go overboard... Thats why i like GD studio the best...
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On November 23 2013 01:47 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 01:40 Unleashing wrote:
him saying shit like "Kotl blast" stuff like this is so annoying and a huge turn-off when he casts.
How come him saying "Kotl blast" is a big turnoff but nobody complains when people say "Lina stun"... People selectively choose things that bother them and then whine about it as if their own opinion was the only thing that matters. Obviously this is just MY opinion but you are just as guilty of "deciding what is truth" as anybody else is. The fact that you dislike certain terms that tobi uses doesn't make tobi a bad caster. The GD studio is at least as guilty of having their own pet names for a variety of abilities, for example. Not that I have any issue with that but its not like tobi is the only person who calls abilities weird stuff.
Odd because at no point did i call him a 'factually' bad caster, i have repeatedly in my posts stated that it was how i personally felt which clearly implies opinion, so saying that just because i don't like something about tobi he isn't a bad caster. Clearly he isn't, there are people that enjoy him. And there are people who don't.
At no point have i said that it's wrong to like his cast and that he's factually a bad caster,i have on the other hand said that it was my opinion and it was how i saw things, which again, is me fully admitting that it's my opinion and not a fact.
And pet peeves exist, kotl blast pisses me off. To me that'd be the equivalant of saying "Enigma sucky" because black holy sucks you in. Meanwhile i have no problem with lina stun or enigma ult.
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EPT
