EPThe tends to win fights on equal farm, he just farms kinda slow
General Discussion - Page 4299
| Forum Index > Dota 2 General |
IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2 Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads. | ||
|
Dead9
United States4725 Posts
he tends to win fights on equal farm, he just farms kinda slow | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:42 FinestHour wrote: lmao hots has an abom hero/unite that hooks people hueheuheuheuehue World of Warcraft also has it, so it isn't exactly surprising. | ||
|
Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:36 Excludos wrote: You'd need blink, yes. I don't see the need for BKB when drafted this way, as you wont be the one doing damage. Like I said, he would be drafted for his ulti alone. The stun would only be as a bonus, and his bash would be completely useless. That's ridiculous. Warlock has a stronger ult across the board if your goal is to just have a hero with an R that you can use to push. Dragon Knight would fill the same role of a strong stun + R that is used to push. Death prophet support would work by the same logic. Playing sniper "support" and just running in and shrapnelling towers would be legit. There is no hero (save maybe warlock) that you can afford to draft for just one skill, MUCH less one that only applies a 17% damage amp to towers until minute 20. And Diablo 3's Butcher somehow became pudge somewhere along the way  | ||
|
Grettin
42416 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:42 FinestHour wrote: lmao hots has an abom hero/unite that hooks people hueheuheuheuehue is that really surprising to you? -_- | ||
|
Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
| ||
|
teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:42 FinestHour wrote: They say it's challenging games in the genre but really it doesn't sound like they're making a dota like game.lmao hots has an abom hero/unite that hooks people hueheuheuheuehue I mean the biggest thing he pointed out was like different game modes. If your focus is on different game modes, it's not a dota like game. It's like 'we wanted to push forward the football genre by making hoops instead of goals', well then it aint football. Which could be interesting sure, but if you have vastly different game modes the game can't be balanced in a way a game like Dota is. It would be more like a series of mini-games. Will have to see. | ||
|
PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
| ||
|
Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:45 Staboteur wrote: That's ridiculous. Warlock has a stronger ult across the board if your goal is to just have a hero with an R that you can use to push. Dragon Knight would fill the same role of a strong stun + R that is used to push. Death prophet support would work by the same logic. Playing sniper "support" and just running in and shrapnelling towers would be legit. There is no hero (save maybe warlock) that you can afford to draft for just one skill, MUCH less one that only applies a 17% damage amp to towers until minute 20. And Diablo 3's Butcher somehow became pudge somewhere along the way Dragon knight is good as pushing when he has the farm for it. His ulti dps is directly proportional to his farm. He needs to be played as a carry and nothing else. Death Prophet ulti is amazing at taking down towers. Problem is though that she needs to stay alive, or the ulti stops. The range is also fairly limited, meaning she can't ulti from a safe distance and not be afraid of anyone initiating on her. She needs farm for mana regen and health items to make her ulti work. Yeah, sniper support would be amazing. only 2 whole minutes to take down a tower!...no Warlocks ulti is amazing, no doubt. Fatal bonds isn't really a pushing skill, but is stupidly strong in teamfights if hit correctly. But I still don't see why they overlap. Slardar would be used to stay in the back and toss ulti upon towers and enemies for the rest of the team to easily take down. Warlock has an ulti with a 2.5 minute cooldown, letting the team push/teamfight every 2.5 minutes. They don't overlap in any sense. | ||
|
teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:01 PassiveAce wrote: Probably like anubarak or some shit.I saw the model for dota1s nyx assassin too I think. | ||
|
Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:01 PassiveAce wrote: I saw the model for dota1s nyx assassin too I think. That would probably be Anub'arak. | ||
|
Gevna
France2332 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:01 PassiveAce wrote: I saw the model for dota1s nyx assassin too I think. I saw terrorblade in Hots, already ahead of Dota 2 :-/ | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:00 teapoted wrote: They say it's challenging games in the genre but really it doesn't sound like they're making a dota like game. I mean the biggest thing he pointed out was like different game modes. If your focus is on different game modes, it's not a dota like game. It's like 'we wanted to push forward the football genre by making hoops instead of goals', well then it aint football. Which could be interesting sure, but if you have vastly different game modes the game can't be balanced in a way a game like Dota is. It would be more like a series of mini-games. Will have to see. Well, WC3, AoE and C&C are vastly diferent games of the same genre. I wouldn't say just because the game has newer maps with diferent game modes it necessairly would fall out of the genre. "Dota-likes" has been a pretty narrow definition so far, mostly because it's so fresh and each game had so many common influences from the same origin. It could easily keep the same concept of a "hero brawler" in Browder's words, which lanes and creeps, which the game seemed to have in at least some parts of the video, and the ultimate goal of destroying the opponents base. That would probally be enough to make it the same genre as Dota. Of course it "aint football", football isn't a genre. Hoops instead of goals would be a fairly small change. Different games, same genre. Blizzard shouldn't try to create Dota 3. | ||
|
FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On November 09 2013 00:19 crms wrote: this post, this post right here is a funny post. finally someone understands me | ||
|
teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:08 SKC wrote: Well I would say that it could be in a genre which Dota is in. But it isn't in 'the' dota genre. Like Dota/HoN/LoL. Because such a big part of Dota is the map, and even if you change the map then it's around having these sort of mechanics balanced around 1 common map. He talked about a game mode where you have to collect stuff and bring it back to base to feed something, I dno. That's not Dota, that's like some other WC3 custom map. Dota to me isn't defined by 'you control a hero', because then 90% of WC3 maps are Dota. It's just like an ARPG.Well, WC3, AoE and C&C are vastly diferent games of the same genre. I wouldn't say just because the game has newer maps with diferent game modes it necessairly would fall out of the genre. "Dota-likes" has been a pretty narrow definition so far, mostly because it's so fresh and each game had so many common influences from the same origin. It could easily keep the same concept of a "hero brawler" in Browder's words, which lanes and creeps, which the game seemed to have in at least some parts of the video, and the ultimate goal of destroying the opponents base. That would probally be enough to make it the same genre as Dota. Anyway, I'm going to watch some competitive WoW for the first time some WoW wednesdays. | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:13 teapoted wrote: Well I would say that it could be in a genre which Dota is in. But it isn't in 'the' dota genre. Like Dota/HoN/LoL. Because such a big part of Dota is the map, and even if you change the map then it's around having these sort of mechanics balanced around 1 common map. Anyway, I'm going to watch from competitive WoW for the first time some WoW wednesdays. Well, they were deliberatelly vague with "hero brawler", I don't think they ever wanted to "push Dota to another level". Pushing the genre in another direction is probally a better decision than joining the competition with a similar game, and it fits "challenging the genre" just fine. | ||
|
teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Because when it was last shown, it looked like Dota made in the SC2 engine. And they talked about it as if they were making a Dota game. They talked about issues with boots in Dota like games, I mean they weren't really going in a different direction back then. What I'm happy about though is that it now looks artistically more like WC3 than it does like SC2. | ||
|
canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:03 Gevna wrote: I saw terrorblade in Hots, already ahead of Dota 2 :-/ Give dota2 2 more years, he's eventually in there. | ||
|
JumboJohnson
537 Posts
Yango, master of numbers, bestow to us your knowledge bombs! Edit: Ok I see our difference in point of view. You're looking at 20 armor (54.5% reduction) - 10 armor (37.5% reduction) is 17% but I don't know if that's the correct way to view it. 2nd Edit: Also this graph may have the flawed negative value of armor bug. But that shouldn't matter for our uses here. | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
| ||
|
Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:02 Excludos wrote: Dragon knight is good as pushing when he has the farm for it. His ulti dps is directly proportional to his farm. He needs to be played as a carry and nothing else. Death Prophet ulti is amazing at taking down towers. Problem is though that she needs to stay alive, or the ulti stops. The range is also fairly limited, meaning she can't ulti from a safe distance and not be afraid of anyone initiating on her. She needs farm for mana regen and health items to make her ulti work. Yeah, sniper support would be amazing. only 2 whole minutes to take down a tower!...no Warlocks ulti is amazing, no doubt. Fatal bonds isn't really a pushing skill, but is stupidly strong in teamfights if hit correctly. But I still don't see why they overlap. Slardar would be used to stay in the back and toss ulti upon towers and enemies for the rest of the team to easily take down. Warlock has an ulti with a 2.5 minute cooldown, letting the team push/teamfight every 2.5 minutes. They don't overlap in any sense. A Dragon Knight with no items can apply his corrosive DoT to the tower twice for 200 damage, about the same damage as provided by Slardar's lvl 6 Amp Damage to a tower. It's bad, yes, but that's kinda my point. Death Prophet's ulti can hit the tower from 1100 range away. If the enemy can initiate on DP from that range, your draft has other problems. Also, 8 ghosts hitting the tower once each is about the same damage done to any one tower as a 17% amp would be. Sniper's Shrapnel provides 160 damage to a tower from ten billion range. Two casts of Shrapnel provide more damage than slardar's ult would to a tower. Warlock's ult is powerful because it helps you win the fight before pushing the tower, then pushes afterwards. The overlap is "I'm going to draft this hero just for his R" in which case warlock is almost unanimously better than slardar. What I'll concede is that beyond levels 11 and 16 slardar's damage amp on towers would start to become ridiculous. That said, it's still well within comparable range to other heroes, and in fact straight up worse than a lot of pushing heroes before level 11. On November 09 2013 05:23 JumboJohnson wrote: Slardar's lvl 1 ulti is -10 armor and a tier 1 tower has 20 armor. Looking at this graph, that would be about a 37-38% increase in damage to tower. Or am I reading that wrong? I'm not sure where you got 17% from. Yango, master of numbers, bestow to us your knowledge bombs! 20 armour is a 54% damage reduction, 10 armour is 37%. But I'm math-retarded, so it probably is a 37% damage amp, which makes me look like a lulz! | ||
| ||
