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General Discussion - Page 3993

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Scalepad
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden366 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-26 16:58:37
September 26 2013 16:58 GMT
#79841
edit: nvm
Felonydota
Profile Joined September 2013
4 Posts
September 26 2013 16:58 GMT
#79842
this is some interesting stuff guys lols keep the discussion going!!
Darkren
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1841 Posts
September 26 2013 17:07 GMT
#79843
Gonna do some theory crafting about OD.

Right now his astral steal 2/4/6/8 int per cast, this leads that at around lv 5 he can destroys u mid because if he can get close to 3 stacks on you that is 18 int lost, (early when you are trying to get your upgraded boots and only have a bottle as mid this can be crushing, this leads to stupid like 50 mana pool).

What about we rework this a bit so that he steal 1/2/3/4 int to the hero but gains double to him, so he gains 2/4/6/8 int. This nerfs his ability to reduce the manapool of the opponent and nerfs a little the ult. His base damage and attack damage gain from astral remain unchained.

Do i deserve a medal or what
"Yeah, I send (hopefully) helpful PM's quite frequently. You don't have to warn/ban everything" - KadaverBB
Kishin2
Profile Joined May 2011
United States7534 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-26 17:16:00
September 26 2013 17:11 GMT
#79844
The thing that disgusts me most about OD is the 315 ms with that much base armor.

Interesting thing about buffs/nerfs is that one tiny buff doesn't tend to make a hero instantly pick-able while even a small nerf makes the hero a tertiary pick unless the hero's strengths are discovered. Happened with gyro, naga, lifestealer, and etc., so I expect the same with OD. Axe has also been getting incremental buffs forever now, but I welcome the day when axe becomes competitive.

I've watched a few of the MLG League games and teams should really start pulling more "cheese" strats. There aren't enough EG Knight and ex-AL heal strats. And if you're an unknown team then you'll probably get a lot more exposure for attempting it against a well-known team.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-26 17:19:33
September 26 2013 17:17 GMT
#79845
On September 27 2013 01:36 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 01:28 NB wrote:
So i played 40th games in ixdl-o last night and got trial vouch into NEL today. I still have quite a long way to go but here are a few things you need to know about ixdl-o:

1/ Its good to play in games that have .min 1001. Rating starts at 1000. That means that by having a minimum requirement of 1001, you can somewhat guarantee to have people who know whats going on in your game. Quality assurance is always good when you are confident in your skill level.

2/ It is possible to just play support and still have a good record. In the 40 games i played, I think i only get to play core 5 times or less. You gona get flamed a shit ton though so general advice is to get yourself some thick skin. Muting is not really an option either because you will need chat(text/voice) for coordination.

3/ The hero tier list is generally as follow:

S-tier: Batrider Naga OD Visage LoA
A-tier: Weaver Razor Bane Jakiro Clock
B-tier: Bara TC Timber Nyx Darkseer Furion

and after that its the circle on which mid counter which mid, which carry is best in which line up. Sometime you will see strange heroes that goes into the top 4 bans so the S-tiers could be exploited and picked later on. Heroes that require high coordination are often skipped out (chen/wisp). Sometime you will get a retarded captain(like me) who wana try new shit and pick experimental heroes such as Medusa, Centaur, Slark, Undying...

4/ Try to communicate with the team/drafter on what could you play, avoid blind assumptions. One of the biggest problem with new players is that they are often left with heroes they are not comfortable with. The usage of 'dip' or 'request' work better the earlier in the draft you said it. Its also recommended that you ask your team so that you could play a specific role and choose your own hero, keep it mind however that most of the time the 3 cores will be played by people with highest ratings on your team.

5/ Dont expect people to teach you and go easy on you. IXDL-O is definitely not where you learn to play dota. It is toxic and it is unforgiving as most players here want to rise to the top and expect you to do your job perfectly. You will get flamed and if you think you cant learn anything from these games and these people, just stay away until Valve implement a better solution or go here.

6/ Try making friends. It helps when people know your name and you know people's name. In fact, in most of the higher rating games, the ban/pick are really targeting on the more notable players on the other team. I once lost to a line up of treant-LoA-drow-SF-BH, that entire line up was dedicated to get the SF fed and kept him alive because they had a pretty absurd SF player that I didnt know about during draft.

Thanks for the good advice, when I go back to IXDL-O I'll be sure to use it! But one question, if you are sub-700 rating how do you recommend getting games?

I dont have the best answer to this question since i never been there myself. I do realize, however, that it is hard for a low rating player to find games. When you dip below 850 rating, i think you need to re do a lot of thinking about how you view and play dota in general because clearly at that point there is no longer luck involve. If I ever go sub-700, the first thing i would do is try avoiding playing -cm in any shape or form. I will go play AP matchmaking solo and make sure I have proper practice on heroes that are popular in the competitive scene to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each hero. Make sure that those game are solo queue so you get the players that suit for your skill level. I think TLIH and TLIH 4 newbies are really attractive with a proper mentor system and less toxic but I havent tried those as much for myself.

Lastly I think watch and copy tricks/moves from stream/replay helps a lot. I have do a lot of experiment with streaming as well as watching dota2 and I realize one of the crucial trick is to hide/ignore your mouse cursor. Having mouse cursor on the stream will distracts the viewers from what is important to focus on. That way it will make the viewers work harder to find information on the screen: they will try to find their own information via minimap, HP bar, item slot as well as heroes positioning.

And when the new season of ixdl start again, you could try it all over with your stats reset(unless there is a nother way to reset your stats that i dont know about).
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
September 26 2013 17:20 GMT
#79846
On September 27 2013 02:17 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 01:36 kollin wrote:
On September 27 2013 01:28 NB wrote:
So i played 40th games in ixdl-o last night and got trial vouch into NEL today. I still have quite a long way to go but here are a few things you need to know about ixdl-o:

1/ Its good to play in games that have .min 1001. Rating starts at 1000. That means that by having a minimum requirement of 1001, you can somewhat guarantee to have people who know whats going on in your game. Quality assurance is always good when you are confident in your skill level.

2/ It is possible to just play support and still have a good record. In the 40 games i played, I think i only get to play core 5 times or less. You gona get flamed a shit ton though so general advice is to get yourself some thick skin. Muting is not really an option either because you will need chat(text/voice) for coordination.

3/ The hero tier list is generally as follow:

S-tier: Batrider Naga OD Visage LoA
A-tier: Weaver Razor Bane Jakiro Clock
B-tier: Bara TC Timber Nyx Darkseer Furion

and after that its the circle on which mid counter which mid, which carry is best in which line up. Sometime you will see strange heroes that goes into the top 4 bans so the S-tiers could be exploited and picked later on. Heroes that require high coordination are often skipped out (chen/wisp). Sometime you will get a retarded captain(like me) who wana try new shit and pick experimental heroes such as Medusa, Centaur, Slark, Undying...

4/ Try to communicate with the team/drafter on what could you play, avoid blind assumptions. One of the biggest problem with new players is that they are often left with heroes they are not comfortable with. The usage of 'dip' or 'request' work better the earlier in the draft you said it. Its also recommended that you ask your team so that you could play a specific role and choose your own hero, keep it mind however that most of the time the 3 cores will be played by people with highest ratings on your team.

5/ Dont expect people to teach you and go easy on you. IXDL-O is definitely not where you learn to play dota. It is toxic and it is unforgiving as most players here want to rise to the top and expect you to do your job perfectly. You will get flamed and if you think you cant learn anything from these games and these people, just stay away until Valve implement a better solution or go here.

6/ Try making friends. It helps when people know your name and you know people's name. In fact, in most of the higher rating games, the ban/pick are really targeting on the more notable players on the other team. I once lost to a line up of treant-LoA-drow-SF-BH, that entire line up was dedicated to get the SF fed and kept him alive because they had a pretty absurd SF player that I didnt know about during draft.

Thanks for the good advice, when I go back to IXDL-O I'll be sure to use it! But one question, if you are sub-700 rating how do you recommend getting games?

I dont have the best answer to this question since i never been there myself. I do realize, however, that it is hard for a low rating player to find games. When you dip below 850 rating, i think you need to re do a lot of thinking about how you view and play dota in general because clearly at that point there is no longer luck involve. If I ever go sub-700, the first thing i would do is try avoiding playing -cm in any shape or form. I will go play AP matchmaking solo and make sure I have proper practice on heroes that are popular in the competitive scene to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each hero. Make sure that those game are solo queue so you get the players that suit for your skill level. I think TLIH and TLIH 4 newbies are really attractive with a proper mentor system and less toxic but I havent tried those as much for myself.

Lastly I think watch and copy tricks/moves from stream/replay helps a lot. I have do a lot of experiment with streaming as well as watching dota2 and I realize one of the crucial trick is to hide/ignore your mouse cursor. Having mouse cursor on the stream will distracts the viewers from what is important to focus on. That way it will make the viewers work harder to find information on the screen: they will try to find their own information via minimap, HP bar, item slot as well as heroes positioning.

And when the new season of ixdl start again, you could try it all over with your stats reset(unless there is a nother way to reset your stats that i dont know about).

Thanks for the advice, it's good to see very high level players helping out new players such as myself. Since you talked about pubs, what do you recommend as a good pubstomping hero? I was thinking Shadow Fiend, because he seems easy because all you need to do is last hit but do you have any other suggestions?
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
September 26 2013 17:25 GMT
#79847
On September 27 2013 02:20 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 02:17 NB wrote:
On September 27 2013 01:36 kollin wrote:
On September 27 2013 01:28 NB wrote:
So i played 40th games in ixdl-o last night and got trial vouch into NEL today. I still have quite a long way to go but here are a few things you need to know about ixdl-o:

1/ Its good to play in games that have .min 1001. Rating starts at 1000. That means that by having a minimum requirement of 1001, you can somewhat guarantee to have people who know whats going on in your game. Quality assurance is always good when you are confident in your skill level.

2/ It is possible to just play support and still have a good record. In the 40 games i played, I think i only get to play core 5 times or less. You gona get flamed a shit ton though so general advice is to get yourself some thick skin. Muting is not really an option either because you will need chat(text/voice) for coordination.

3/ The hero tier list is generally as follow:

S-tier: Batrider Naga OD Visage LoA
A-tier: Weaver Razor Bane Jakiro Clock
B-tier: Bara TC Timber Nyx Darkseer Furion

and after that its the circle on which mid counter which mid, which carry is best in which line up. Sometime you will see strange heroes that goes into the top 4 bans so the S-tiers could be exploited and picked later on. Heroes that require high coordination are often skipped out (chen/wisp). Sometime you will get a retarded captain(like me) who wana try new shit and pick experimental heroes such as Medusa, Centaur, Slark, Undying...

4/ Try to communicate with the team/drafter on what could you play, avoid blind assumptions. One of the biggest problem with new players is that they are often left with heroes they are not comfortable with. The usage of 'dip' or 'request' work better the earlier in the draft you said it. Its also recommended that you ask your team so that you could play a specific role and choose your own hero, keep it mind however that most of the time the 3 cores will be played by people with highest ratings on your team.

5/ Dont expect people to teach you and go easy on you. IXDL-O is definitely not where you learn to play dota. It is toxic and it is unforgiving as most players here want to rise to the top and expect you to do your job perfectly. You will get flamed and if you think you cant learn anything from these games and these people, just stay away until Valve implement a better solution or go here.

6/ Try making friends. It helps when people know your name and you know people's name. In fact, in most of the higher rating games, the ban/pick are really targeting on the more notable players on the other team. I once lost to a line up of treant-LoA-drow-SF-BH, that entire line up was dedicated to get the SF fed and kept him alive because they had a pretty absurd SF player that I didnt know about during draft.

Thanks for the good advice, when I go back to IXDL-O I'll be sure to use it! But one question, if you are sub-700 rating how do you recommend getting games?

I dont have the best answer to this question since i never been there myself. I do realize, however, that it is hard for a low rating player to find games. When you dip below 850 rating, i think you need to re do a lot of thinking about how you view and play dota in general because clearly at that point there is no longer luck involve. If I ever go sub-700, the first thing i would do is try avoiding playing -cm in any shape or form. I will go play AP matchmaking solo and make sure I have proper practice on heroes that are popular in the competitive scene to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each hero. Make sure that those game are solo queue so you get the players that suit for your skill level. I think TLIH and TLIH 4 newbies are really attractive with a proper mentor system and less toxic but I havent tried those as much for myself.

Lastly I think watch and copy tricks/moves from stream/replay helps a lot. I have do a lot of experiment with streaming as well as watching dota2 and I realize one of the crucial trick is to hide/ignore your mouse cursor. Having mouse cursor on the stream will distracts the viewers from what is important to focus on. That way it will make the viewers work harder to find information on the screen: they will try to find their own information via minimap, HP bar, item slot as well as heroes positioning.

And when the new season of ixdl start again, you could try it all over with your stats reset(unless there is a nother way to reset your stats that i dont know about).

Thanks for the advice, it's good to see very high level players helping out new players such as myself. Since you talked about pubs, what do you recommend as a good pubstomping hero? I was thinking Shadow Fiend, because he seems easy because all you need to do is last hit but do you have any other suggestions?

Shadowfiend is actually a very complicated, high mechanical, and complex hero. I would steer away from him until you have a good grapsing of the game (well, the occasional game with him is fine, but to become GREAT with him comes later).

If you are trying to pubstomp / play high impact heroes, try some more basic mid heroes like a QoP - shes a hero that scales really well, still allows you to last hit / deny practice easily, and lets you get a feel for solo killing / roaming ganking / rune control. She's a good hero to learn a lot about the game without being TOO hard to play at the easier levels.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
September 26 2013 17:28 GMT
#79848
On September 27 2013 01:30 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 01:26 TheYango wrote:
People are really overthinking how to change OD.

The hero got situational picks a couple versions back if thats what you want out of it. It's just that a couple buffs and DotA 2 bugs brought the hero to where it is today. Nothing some bug-fixes and a buff revert or two wouldn't handle. The hero can be pick-able without gutting it.

Naw, certain people are just crying their eyes out about the hero for unknown reasons (*cough* lost in a pub most likely *cough*).
I will say that the hero is kinda awkwardly narrow though. I don't have suggestions for how to fix that but the hero isn't a very interesting one.

I play OD and have a pretty high winrate with him. I can see beyond my own hero preferences for what's good for the meta.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
September 26 2013 17:30 GMT
#79849
OD just got smashed in Weplay, was a complete irrelevance.

Also completely failed to "Dictate the flow of the game" in any way.

PS: Go liquid yay
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42416 Posts
September 26 2013 17:40 GMT
#79850
Searching for the Dota Network anyone?
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
SilverStar
Profile Joined January 2012
Sweden18511 Posts
September 26 2013 17:42 GMT
#79851
On September 27 2013 02:40 Grettin wrote:
Searching for the Dota Network anyone?

Fine for me. But I had smaller 1-2 min timeouts the past few days.
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42416 Posts
September 26 2013 17:44 GMT
#79852
On September 27 2013 02:42 SilverStar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 02:40 Grettin wrote:
Searching for the Dota Network anyone?

Fine for me. But I had smaller 1-2 min timeouts the past few days.


I hate this game and its servers. Thanks for the info tho.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
SilverStar
Profile Joined January 2012
Sweden18511 Posts
September 26 2013 17:49 GMT
#79853
On September 27 2013 02:44 Grettin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 02:42 SilverStar wrote:
On September 27 2013 02:40 Grettin wrote:
Searching for the Dota Network anyone?

Fine for me. But I had smaller 1-2 min timeouts the past few days.


I hate this game and its servers. Thanks for the info tho.

Then I suggest you play something else. No need to get worked up over a game. Gonna get those priorites right.
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42416 Posts
September 26 2013 17:52 GMT
#79854
On September 27 2013 02:49 SilverStar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 02:44 Grettin wrote:
On September 27 2013 02:42 SilverStar wrote:
On September 27 2013 02:40 Grettin wrote:
Searching for the Dota Network anyone?

Fine for me. But I had smaller 1-2 min timeouts the past few days.


I hate this game and its servers. Thanks for the info tho.

Then I suggest you play something else. No need to get worked up over a game. Gonna get those priorites right.


This game is like crack. You can't quit that easily.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
September 26 2013 17:56 GMT
#79855
Actually I feel like in pubs, OD just wins the mid lane but usually will lose the game after the laning phase. It's a way for players to remove blame from them when they lose the game since they can say, " I won mid, stfu noobs."

I feel that Huskar is actually more annoying to lane against and have more of an impact for the rest of the game in pubs. This new magic resistance god thing is just ridiculous for many support heroes that he usually eats up.
BlitzerSC
Profile Joined May 2011
Italy8800 Posts
September 26 2013 17:59 GMT
#79856
Well you can just... nuke him down low and then right click him.
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-26 18:04:32
September 26 2013 18:03 GMT
#79857
On September 27 2013 02:59 BlitzerSC wrote:
Well you can just... nuke him down low and then right click him.


Which will usually take 3+ heroes to do, and most of the time he'll take at least 1 with him to die.

While the rest of his team is dominating the other areas of the map because of the dedication to kill this beast.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
September 26 2013 18:10 GMT
#79858
On September 27 2013 03:03 trinxified wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2013 02:59 BlitzerSC wrote:
Well you can just... nuke him down low and then right click him.


Which will usually take 3+ heroes to do, and most of the time he'll take at least 1 with him to die.

While the rest of his team is dominating the other areas of the map because of the dedication to kill this beast.

? chainstun works the same way on huskar than on every other heroes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
BlitzerSC
Profile Joined May 2011
Italy8800 Posts
September 26 2013 18:13 GMT
#79859
Also there are many heroes that can burst down 1 or 2 enemies before dying. Think of QoP, TA, PA, BH, Puck, Naix, just to name a few of the popular ones
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
September 26 2013 18:22 GMT
#79860
I remember when i first started playing dota2, the VERY first hero that i dedicate myself into was Furion. You have a really easy time as long as you follow the recipe and the hero itself make you pay attention to the minimap. By playing furion, you will learn how to analyze the map as a whole and learning how to find "farming room" in general. The hero also let you get a bit of gold so it feels satisfying to play no matter you win or lose.

The next hero was on my list that i quickly discovered was naix. Low-mid level pub are where naix incredibly strong since the jungle is completely free. Given a midas at 7 mins, Naix is really a pubstomper that I value even higher than ursa because Ursa win games by teamfight and Naix win games by afk farming. Until today when I no longer play him as much, I still remain with a 63.41% wr with this hero and I know several pros who could also agree with me on how imbalance Naix is in pub.

After that, feel free to dump a good 20 games or so on Bounty Hunter just for lolz

After these 40 game each with naix and furion, you should start choosing your specific role and try to skewer your hero pool toward that direction:

+Easiest would be warding support, 5th position: stick with heroes with long range influence(stun/nuke) and decent mana pool when you begin to play this role. the range will let you position yourself easier while the mana pool will make your mistakes much more forgiving. Examples: Kotl, jakiro, Rubick, etc...

+More micro intensive, jungler slot 4: Furion Enigma are definitely the 2 must play heroes when you choose this role. Mostly because the micro factor is much less intense while the jungle speed is superior with decent influent over the game. Chen Enchan are the must right after.

+Long lane: Learning how to get exp without dying, extending your boundary without letting enemy capitalize on is really good. Long lane in mid level games are not much different from short lane so to get a better playing experience, try this in TLIH. The easier long laner are BH, brood, windrunner, clock... Each of these heroes come with their own tips and trick depends on situations so watching pro games and copy their move is definitely a must.

+Mid, the hardest role: Best hero to learn mid with is QoP, period. I would recommend all the sneyking QoP vod out there for people who want to learn: be aggressive, zoning enemy, rune control and ganking opportunities is all it is about mid lane. After QoP, try QE invoker, zeus, LR tinker... and eventually move up to competitive heroes such as SF, puck, TA. Protip: learn how to play vs pudge help you win games in pub.

+Hard carry: I think this is the 2nd easiest role in the game. You can practice this in a private lobby, just pick a normal carry hero like antimage and learn how to static farm perfectly. This role is pretty straight up if you finished playing 40 games of furion and 40 games of naix. =D
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
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