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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries.
(I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China)
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On September 20 2013 23:55 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 23:52 SKC wrote:On September 20 2013 23:49 Firebolt145 wrote:
It's hilarious how we're in 2013 going crazy because a game implemented LAN. Specially when it kinda already have it. How does it kinda already have it? Offline mode with bots != lan
You could always create your own server, since they added the offlane bot match
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On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China)
Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC.
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On September 21 2013 00:01 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Granted there are less problems with Dota as unlike LoL it is a truly free game. The only reason people would have to play on other networks is if those networks add something new or provide more stability. While for LoL they could just unlock everything. It has LAN on the big events, Riot provides a server there. Similar to Blizzard.
there were disconnects and postponed matches because of server issues in the european lcs a couple of month ago.
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On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC.
Following the industry standard doesn't really make sense when one of your primary focus audiences and previous customers to your other product heavily depended on LAN functions to play. Not the only way they failed in Korea, but it helped.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. It is perfectly reasonable, why do people complain when the Movie industry fucks the consumer in the name of protecting their products from piracy, no Lan is the same thing. You're talking about the company that put the real money auction house in D3, and that make you buy expansions for WoW which are barely playable anymore just to get up to the latest one. Blizzard didn't used to be like this.
This talk about Valve doing everything for people to install Steam is just nonsense, totalbiscuit mentions it every 30 seconds and it's just bs. The people who work at Valve are game developers, they make games, they don't need to have high profit margins because of steam. But at the same time the free games which Valve make are considerably more profitable than the other games. So how does it make sense to say 'this is just to get people on Steam', when they make more money from those games than they do from their games with standard business models. It doesn't make sense.
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On September 21 2013 00:15 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. Following the industry standard doesn't really make sense when one of your primary focus audiences and previous customers to your other product heavily depended on LAN functions to play. Not the only way they failed in Korea, but it helped.
Riot seems to do great without it in Korea. Lack of LAN didn't do much to Korea, it was the fact that the game wasn't free and it wasn't the only game out there. And the industry moved beyond LAN a long time ago when they started to have to spend millions on a game. There is a reason GTA 5 isn't launching on PC at the same time as counsels and its not because they couldn't do it.
On September 21 2013 00:19 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. It is perfectly reasonable, why do people complain when the Movie industry fucks the consumer in the name of protecting their products from piracy, no Lan is the same thing. You're talking about the company that put the real money auction house in D3, and that make you buy expansions for WoW which are barely playable anymore just to get up to the latest one. Blizzard didn't used to be like this. This talk about Valve doing everything for people to install Steam is just nonsense, totalbiscuit mentions it every 30 seconds and it's just bs. The people who work at Valve are game developers, they make games, they don't need to have high profit margins because of steam. But at the same time the free games which Valve make are considerably more profitable than the other games. So how does it make sense to say 'this is just to get people on Steam', when they make more money from those games than they do from their games with standard business models. It doesn't make sense.
The reason Valve makes free to play games and supports games like TF2 and Dota 2 is because they want to sell you other games. They want you to install steam on your system and then flash sales at you every time you shut down a game(which always happens). They are a great company and I love what they do, but don't act like they aren't out to make a buck(or several billion).
Also, Blizzard admitted that the auction house was a mistake. It was an idea that looked good on paper, but failed in practice. They are removing it, which is a great move for them.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 21 2013 00:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:15 Comeh wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. Following the industry standard doesn't really make sense when one of your primary focus audiences and previous customers to your other product heavily depended on LAN functions to play. Not the only way they failed in Korea, but it helped. Riot seems to do great without it in Korea. Lack of LAN didn't do much to Korea, it was the fact that the game wasn't free and it wasn't the only game out there. And the industry moved beyond LAN a long time ago when they started to have to spend millions on a game. There is a reason GTA 5 isn't launching on PC at the same time as counsels and its not because they couldn't do it. Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:19 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. It is perfectly reasonable, why do people complain when the Movie industry fucks the consumer in the name of protecting their products from piracy, no Lan is the same thing. You're talking about the company that put the real money auction house in D3, and that make you buy expansions for WoW which are barely playable anymore just to get up to the latest one. Blizzard didn't used to be like this. This talk about Valve doing everything for people to install Steam is just nonsense, totalbiscuit mentions it every 30 seconds and it's just bs. The people who work at Valve are game developers, they make games, they don't need to have high profit margins because of steam. But at the same time the free games which Valve make are considerably more profitable than the other games. So how does it make sense to say 'this is just to get people on Steam', when they make more money from those games than they do from their games with standard business models. It doesn't make sense. The reason Valve makes free to play games and supports games like TF2 and Dota 2 is because they want to sell you other games. They want you to install steam on your system and then flash sales at you every time you shut down a game(which always happens). They are a great company and I love what they do, but don't act like they aren't out to make a buck(or several billion). Also, Blizzard admitted that the auction house was a mistake. It was an idea that looked good on paper, but failed in practice. They are removing it, which is a great move for them. lol, Blizzard realized that their game was dying so they changed it.
The auction house looked good to no one. As someone who was a diehard diablo 2 player there is no fucking person on earth who thought that would be a good idea. Before it was implemented, or after they saw it in action. It is the kind of thing some asshole makes because they want to squeeze you out of some extra money. Auction houses are fundamentally against what makes a game like diablo interesting, and if Blizzard can't see that, they're morons. And I don't think they're morons.
And again, I never said Valve don't make money from steam, just that the notion, which you now repeated is nonsense. If what you say about TF2 and Dota is true then all their games would be free. Portal, HL, CS, everything. There's no point in charging for it right? (or wait, maybe they all have different business models because they are the best for that game to be successful)
I don't think Valve are saints but just because the sell games and make games doesn't mean they make games to sell games. Because there are more things pointing towards these games having highly successful business models in themselves than there are towards them just being there to get attention and don't need to make any money at all.
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On September 21 2013 00:29 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:22 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:15 Comeh wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. Following the industry standard doesn't really make sense when one of your primary focus audiences and previous customers to your other product heavily depended on LAN functions to play. Not the only way they failed in Korea, but it helped. Riot seems to do great without it in Korea. Lack of LAN didn't do much to Korea, it was the fact that the game wasn't free and it wasn't the only game out there. And the industry moved beyond LAN a long time ago when they started to have to spend millions on a game. There is a reason GTA 5 isn't launching on PC at the same time as counsels and its not because they couldn't do it. On September 21 2013 00:19 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. It is perfectly reasonable, why do people complain when the Movie industry fucks the consumer in the name of protecting their products from piracy, no Lan is the same thing. You're talking about the company that put the real money auction house in D3, and that make you buy expansions for WoW which are barely playable anymore just to get up to the latest one. Blizzard didn't used to be like this. This talk about Valve doing everything for people to install Steam is just nonsense, totalbiscuit mentions it every 30 seconds and it's just bs. The people who work at Valve are game developers, they make games, they don't need to have high profit margins because of steam. But at the same time the free games which Valve make are considerably more profitable than the other games. So how does it make sense to say 'this is just to get people on Steam', when they make more money from those games than they do from their games with standard business models. It doesn't make sense. The reason Valve makes free to play games and supports games like TF2 and Dota 2 is because they want to sell you other games. They want you to install steam on your system and then flash sales at you every time you shut down a game(which always happens). They are a great company and I love what they do, but don't act like they aren't out to make a buck(or several billion). Also, Blizzard admitted that the auction house was a mistake. It was an idea that looked good on paper, but failed in practice. They are removing it, which is a great move for them. lol, Blizzard realized that their game was dying so they changed it. The auction house looked good to no one. As someone who was a diehard diablo 2 player there is no fucking person on earth who thought that would be a good idea. Before it was implemented, or after they saw it in action. It is the kind of thing some asshole makes because they want to squeeze you out of some extra money. Auction houses are fundamentally against what makes a game like diablo interesting, and if Blizzard can't see that, they're morons. And I don't think they're morons. And again, I never said Valve don't make money from steam, just that the notion, which you now repeated is nonsense. If what you say about TF2 and Dota is true then all their games would be free.
Its nonsense that is repeated by every single person in the video game industry who interacts with Valve in any way. Giant Bomb has been saying ever since they started releasing the major updates to TF2. Valves first and primary goal is to get Steam on your PC. They sell their single player games, but there mutiplayer games and the support is just to keep people coming back to Steam. It is want funds all of their crazy shit, like Dota 2.
Sry I am not the standard Blizzard cynic and I just think they lost their way for a while, but are coming back the more they interact with the community.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 21 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:29 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:22 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:15 Comeh wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. Following the industry standard doesn't really make sense when one of your primary focus audiences and previous customers to your other product heavily depended on LAN functions to play. Not the only way they failed in Korea, but it helped. Riot seems to do great without it in Korea. Lack of LAN didn't do much to Korea, it was the fact that the game wasn't free and it wasn't the only game out there. And the industry moved beyond LAN a long time ago when they started to have to spend millions on a game. There is a reason GTA 5 isn't launching on PC at the same time as counsels and its not because they couldn't do it. On September 21 2013 00:19 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. It is perfectly reasonable, why do people complain when the Movie industry fucks the consumer in the name of protecting their products from piracy, no Lan is the same thing. You're talking about the company that put the real money auction house in D3, and that make you buy expansions for WoW which are barely playable anymore just to get up to the latest one. Blizzard didn't used to be like this. This talk about Valve doing everything for people to install Steam is just nonsense, totalbiscuit mentions it every 30 seconds and it's just bs. The people who work at Valve are game developers, they make games, they don't need to have high profit margins because of steam. But at the same time the free games which Valve make are considerably more profitable than the other games. So how does it make sense to say 'this is just to get people on Steam', when they make more money from those games than they do from their games with standard business models. It doesn't make sense. The reason Valve makes free to play games and supports games like TF2 and Dota 2 is because they want to sell you other games. They want you to install steam on your system and then flash sales at you every time you shut down a game(which always happens). They are a great company and I love what they do, but don't act like they aren't out to make a buck(or several billion). Also, Blizzard admitted that the auction house was a mistake. It was an idea that looked good on paper, but failed in practice. They are removing it, which is a great move for them. lol, Blizzard realized that their game was dying so they changed it. The auction house looked good to no one. As someone who was a diehard diablo 2 player there is no fucking person on earth who thought that would be a good idea. Before it was implemented, or after they saw it in action. It is the kind of thing some asshole makes because they want to squeeze you out of some extra money. Auction houses are fundamentally against what makes a game like diablo interesting, and if Blizzard can't see that, they're morons. And I don't think they're morons. And again, I never said Valve don't make money from steam, just that the notion, which you now repeated is nonsense. If what you say about TF2 and Dota is true then all their games would be free. Its nonsense that is repeated by every single person in the video game industry who interacts with Valve in any way. Giant Bomb has been saying ever since they started releasing the major updates to TF2. Valves first and primary goal is to get Steam on your PC. They sell their single player games, but there mutiplayer games and the support is just to keep people coming back to Steam. It is want funds all of their crazy shit, like Dota 2. I'm sorry but games journalists, as much as I like Giant bomb, doesn't prove shit. There is no real evidence in this regard, all the evidence points towards the business models are there to make the game as successful as possible. Which is the same thing every other developer does.
Look at Dota 2. What would another company do differently with Dota 2.
1. Pay up front. Won't work, community built on pirates in third world countries.
2. Pay for heroes. Won't work, community has been playing these heroes for 10 years.
The business model in Dota 2 is the one that makes the most sense.
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On September 21 2013 00:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:15 Comeh wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. Following the industry standard doesn't really make sense when one of your primary focus audiences and previous customers to your other product heavily depended on LAN functions to play. Not the only way they failed in Korea, but it helped. Riot seems to do great without it in Korea. Lack of LAN didn't do much to Korea, it was the fact that the game wasn't free and it wasn't the only game out there. And the industry moved beyond LAN a long time ago when they started to have to spend millions on a game. There is a reason GTA 5 isn't launching on PC at the same time as counsels and its not because they couldn't do it. Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:19 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:34 Mataza wrote:
Dota2 now officially has lan before sc2 has.
Sounds formidable. Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. It is perfectly reasonable, why do people complain when the Movie industry fucks the consumer in the name of protecting their products from piracy, no Lan is the same thing. You're talking about the company that put the real money auction house in D3, and that make you buy expansions for WoW which are barely playable anymore just to get up to the latest one. Blizzard didn't used to be like this. This talk about Valve doing everything for people to install Steam is just nonsense, totalbiscuit mentions it every 30 seconds and it's just bs. The people who work at Valve are game developers, they make games, they don't need to have high profit margins because of steam. But at the same time the free games which Valve make are considerably more profitable than the other games. So how does it make sense to say 'this is just to get people on Steam', when they make more money from those games than they do from their games with standard business models. It doesn't make sense. The reason Valve makes free to play games and supports games like TF2 and Dota 2 is because they want to sell you other games. They want you to install steam on your system and then flash sales at you every time you shut down a game(which always happens). They are a great company and I love what they do, but don't act like they aren't out to make a buck(or several billion). Also, Blizzard admitted that the auction house was a mistake. It was an idea that looked good on paper, but failed in practice. They are removing it, which is a great move for them.
Of course Valve wants to make money. What makes it different from purely money-grubbing efforts is that they go for honey rather than vinegar: they provide wonderful games and services for cheap or free, and try to please their customers so that the customers will willingly spend. That sort of productive, community-oriented capitalism is a very different beast than exploitative capitalism.
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Anybody who thinks that Dota doesn't make valve money hand-over-fist hasn't though very hard about it.
Considering a single item creator made I think $200,000 a few years ago, and it's only growing, and valve gets 3x what the item creator gets... Yeah.
They don't need to make money off of it due to steam, agreed, but theres NO WAY they aren't absolutely swimming in dollars straight from Dota as well.
PS you can turn off those adds that pop up whenever you close a steam game. Its an option somewhere in steam. Valve are out to make money but they legit care about their customer loyalty.
EDIT: PPS I'm ignoring keys here which are probably the most money valve makes, since intelligent people buy keys not items.
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Glados pack announce. OMFG
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On September 21 2013 00:39 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:29 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:22 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:15 Comeh wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. Following the industry standard doesn't really make sense when one of your primary focus audiences and previous customers to your other product heavily depended on LAN functions to play. Not the only way they failed in Korea, but it helped. Riot seems to do great without it in Korea. Lack of LAN didn't do much to Korea, it was the fact that the game wasn't free and it wasn't the only game out there. And the industry moved beyond LAN a long time ago when they started to have to spend millions on a game. There is a reason GTA 5 isn't launching on PC at the same time as counsels and its not because they couldn't do it. On September 21 2013 00:19 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:08 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 00:04 teapoted wrote:On September 21 2013 00:02 Plansix wrote:On September 20 2013 23:57 teapoted wrote:On September 20 2013 23:44 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Since SC2 is not free to play and is likely never getting LAN, its not that impressive.(Its nice, but its not like they reinvented the wheel) Its easy to make a game free when the way you make money isn't selling the game itself. Well LoL is Free and doesn't have Lan. There are still issues with a free game having Lan. In fact there might even be more issues, because free games are still making money, shadow networks screw with that. While a game like SC2 has already made the majority of money they will ever make. Its still doesn't make sense for them to have LAN, even at this point. Few games have LAN any more, Dota 2 is the exception, not the rule. Most FPS games don't often have it. It is just the way games are now. Its a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a lot of companies to add it to their games. It doesn't make sense in America no. But as a former Lan rat, it is an important feature, especially in poorer countries. (I don't think it's a coincidence this is around the time the game will open Beta in China) Yeah, well the US and EU is one of the larger markets for Blizzard. Making the perfect game that has perfect features for the entire world is not really a reasonable goal. At the end of the day, Blizzard isn't doing anything that is different from the rest of the industry. Valve is the exception, but all their plans are focused around getting people to install Steam on the PC. It is perfectly reasonable, why do people complain when the Movie industry fucks the consumer in the name of protecting their products from piracy, no Lan is the same thing. You're talking about the company that put the real money auction house in D3, and that make you buy expansions for WoW which are barely playable anymore just to get up to the latest one. Blizzard didn't used to be like this. This talk about Valve doing everything for people to install Steam is just nonsense, totalbiscuit mentions it every 30 seconds and it's just bs. The people who work at Valve are game developers, they make games, they don't need to have high profit margins because of steam. But at the same time the free games which Valve make are considerably more profitable than the other games. So how does it make sense to say 'this is just to get people on Steam', when they make more money from those games than they do from their games with standard business models. It doesn't make sense. The reason Valve makes free to play games and supports games like TF2 and Dota 2 is because they want to sell you other games. They want you to install steam on your system and then flash sales at you every time you shut down a game(which always happens). They are a great company and I love what they do, but don't act like they aren't out to make a buck(or several billion). Also, Blizzard admitted that the auction house was a mistake. It was an idea that looked good on paper, but failed in practice. They are removing it, which is a great move for them. lol, Blizzard realized that their game was dying so they changed it. The auction house looked good to no one. As someone who was a diehard diablo 2 player there is no fucking person on earth who thought that would be a good idea. Before it was implemented, or after they saw it in action. It is the kind of thing some asshole makes because they want to squeeze you out of some extra money. Auction houses are fundamentally against what makes a game like diablo interesting, and if Blizzard can't see that, they're morons. And I don't think they're morons. And again, I never said Valve don't make money from steam, just that the notion, which you now repeated is nonsense. If what you say about TF2 and Dota is true then all their games would be free. Its nonsense that is repeated by every single person in the video game industry who interacts with Valve in any way. Giant Bomb has been saying ever since they started releasing the major updates to TF2. Valves first and primary goal is to get Steam on your PC. They sell their single player games, but there mutiplayer games and the support is just to keep people coming back to Steam. It is want funds all of their crazy shit, like Dota 2. I'm sorry but games journalists, as much as I like Giant bomb, doesn't prove shit. There is no real evidence in this regard, all the evidence points towards the business models are there to make the game as successful as possible. Which is the same thing every other developer does.
You're demanding evidence that will never present itself or become available. Valve is privately owned and they will never say "We make free to play multiplayer games to make you install steam and sell you shit". It is never going to happen. And you can't prove otherwise and it makes perfect business sense for them to do it. Its a great business model, gets you a lot of credibility with the community and sells games. But we will never know for sure, since Valve does not release any internal numbers.
On September 21 2013 00:41 Sn0_Man wrote:
Anybody who thinks that Dota doesn't make valve money hand-over-fist hasn't though very hard about it.
Considering a single item creator made I think $200,000 a few years ago, and it's only growing, and valve gets 3x what the item creator gets... Yeah.
They don't need to make money off of it due to steam, agreed, but theres NO WAY they aren't absolutely swimming in dollars straight from Dota as well.
PS you can turn off those adds that pop up whenever you close a steam game. Its an option somewhere in steam. Valve are out to make money but they legit care about their customer loyalty.
EDIT: PPS I'm ignoring keys here which are probably the most money valve makes, since intelligent people buy keys not items.
Of course they make money off of it, but the game has been in development for 3 years or more. We don't know the cost for getting the thing running. I don't think Dota 2 is a bad plan or not profitable. I am just saying Valves main goal is to get Steam on your PC by offing you a great game for free. Its not bad, but its not a business model that Blizzard can just flip on like a switch.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
I don't need evidence in the form of Valve saying it.
I need evidence in the form of games which have business models which don't make sense or aren't profitable for the sole purpose of bringing users to steam. Logic is to me more important than what games journalists say.
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On September 21 2013 00:46 teapoted wrote:
I don't need evidence in the form of Valve saying it.
I need evidence in the form of games which have business models which don't make sense or aren't profitable for the sole purpose of bringing users to steam. Logic is to me more important than what games journalists say.
Thats the humble bundles or something lol.
YES I KNOW THEY ARENT FROM VALVE
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Well I don't think Humble Bundle really brings in any 'new' people regardless.
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On September 21 2013 00:46 teapoted wrote:
I don't need evidence in the form of Valve saying it.
I need evidence in the form of games which have business models which don't make sense or aren't profitable for the sole purpose of bringing users to steam. Logic is to me more important than what games journalists say.
You can't shift the burden of proof on to me just because you think your argument is more logical. Both of our arguments make equal sense and you can't just say "You don't have proof and I don't need it". Dota 2 might be profitable at this point or maybe it has a long tail, but it has taken a long time to get there and we don't know how much they spent. But the fact still remains, Valve can't make any money on it until you put your credit card into Steam. And if they are looking to make money, they want you to put your credit card into Steam. And then, you might buy other games through Steam.
Its a really good plan for long term growth and making great multiplayer games.
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On September 21 2013 00:50 teapoted wrote:
Well I don't think Humble Bundle really brings in any 'new' people regardless.
Pretty sure you can download most / all games in humble bundles free from steam.
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Pretty sure that the origin humble bundle brought tons of people to origin
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EPT
