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On August 19 2013 16:15 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 16:11 Wysp wrote:
I honestly think furion is not too OP considering how good his teleport skill and ultimate are. I think the treants are mainly too powerful at the 0 - 1:00 minute mark, and if there is someway to adjust this maybe he doesn't need more nerfs.
Reducing his base armor would make him significantly weaker when he is in FB seeking mode or joining trilane vs trilane battles and 1v1 match ups. I think this nerf would be the second step.
But, on how to make his treants weaker in the earlier game, perhaps treants need to walk slower as they increase their distance from nature's prophet. The truly powerful thing about them is being a low bounty unit (as mentioned above) that is free roaming with good vision for 55 seconds. This is enough time for the 6 treants a furions is going to be using from 0:00-1:00 to play games with your incoming creep wave and block up neutral spawns, making a hero who should usually get nothing from a 1v3 into big a wrench in the trilane's XP machinery. Now that he has spent the time it normally takes him to gain 200 experience destroying the efficiency of the enemy trilane, he just TP's/walks to the fountain makes some treants and jungles away. If treants began walking significantly slower when they reach greater than 2000 range from the prophet, or go slower at 1000 range scaling down as they reach even further distance, they would lose their maneuverability in the beginning of the laning phase and lose some of their strength as global scouts. The trilane will actually be able to kill the treants in their bootless state and furion will not hugely out level the enemy supports in the hardlane. I mean if you wanna put it that way, perhaps the Treants should actually flat out die or expire way faster when NP is away for like 1200 range or something.
Well that seems boring and lame. I just want furion to have to stand in front of his tier 1 tower or even almost in the jungle if he doesn't want his treants run down before the :30 mark. But regardless, I think of these things and 9 / 10 icefrog thinks of a better adjustment. Looking forward to see the angle he takes.
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Who has the advantage in a mid match up. Death Prophet vs Puck go.
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puck hands down if you play it right
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On August 19 2013 16:45 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 16:34 FinestHour wrote:On August 19 2013 16:05 Erasme wrote:On August 19 2013 15:48 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
As seen on iceiceice's stream, the counter to fountain hook is Weaver. ggggggggg pudge can dismember weaver before he timelapses 99.99999999 percent of the playerbase doesnt shift que And of the remaining, most still don't know about the bug where you have to stand exactly where you cast hook or step back slightly to Dismember after Hook. Anyone used to DotA 1 where you could start Dismember on someone who is being hooked before the hook completes might walk forward slightly (in fact, that was actually the *correct* play because starting Dismember before Hook completes means even instant spells can't happen before Dismember starts)--while in DotA 2 if you do this, Dismember is not queued until after Hook completes, which mean Pudge tries to turn around.
This catches me out all the time when I cast Dismember on someone while they're still in the air. I'm not sure of the most efficient way to do this yet.
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On August 19 2013 17:17 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 16:45 TheYango wrote:On August 19 2013 16:34 FinestHour wrote:On August 19 2013 16:05 Erasme wrote:On August 19 2013 15:48 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
As seen on iceiceice's stream, the counter to fountain hook is Weaver. ggggggggg pudge can dismember weaver before he timelapses 99.99999999 percent of the playerbase doesnt shift que And of the remaining, most still don't know about the bug where you have to stand exactly where you cast hook or step back slightly to Dismember after Hook. Anyone used to DotA 1 where you could start Dismember on someone who is being hooked before the hook completes might walk forward slightly (in fact, that was actually the *correct* play because starting Dismember before Hook completes means even instant spells can't happen before Dismember starts)--while in DotA 2 if you do this, Dismember is not queued until after Hook completes, which mean Pudge tries to turn around. This catches me out all the time when I cast Dismember on someone while they're still in the air. I'm not sure of the most efficient way to do this yet.
pudge must be facing the dude where he will land. the easiest way to do it is clicking dismember on the person before the hook lands
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Okay that affirms my beliefs, thank you.
Another and final solo match up question for the night. A pro player told me that in QoP vs Puck, QoP initially has the advantage until level 5, reason is because of silence. Agree or disagree?
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
phantom lancer is disgustingly strong
managed to salvage a lost game by constantly pushing (enemy didnt know what was gem/sentry) and spamming lances to hold high ground
40 mins later, max inventory with bot, bfly, manta, heart, rebought diffusal 2 and gem (enemy were sb kunkka and juggernaut)
pushed all 3 lanes at one go, felt so good
end game said "GG", no response from team lol
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On August 19 2013 17:25 konadora wrote:
phantom lancer is disgustingly strong
managed to salvage a lost game by constantly pushing (enemy didnt know what was gem/sentry) and spamming lances to hold high ground
40 mins later, max inventory with bot, bfly, manta, heart, rebought diffusal 2 and gem (enemy were sb kunkka and juggernaut)
pushed all 3 lanes at one go, felt so good
end game said "GG", no response from team lol
Kunkka does alright agaisnt PL I thought, at least when kuunka has rng on his side.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On August 19 2013 17:23 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 17:17 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 19 2013 16:45 TheYango wrote:On August 19 2013 16:34 FinestHour wrote:On August 19 2013 16:05 Erasme wrote:On August 19 2013 15:48 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
As seen on iceiceice's stream, the counter to fountain hook is Weaver. ggggggggg pudge can dismember weaver before he timelapses 99.99999999 percent of the playerbase doesnt shift que And of the remaining, most still don't know about the bug where you have to stand exactly where you cast hook or step back slightly to Dismember after Hook. Anyone used to DotA 1 where you could start Dismember on someone who is being hooked before the hook completes might walk forward slightly (in fact, that was actually the *correct* play because starting Dismember before Hook completes means even instant spells can't happen before Dismember starts)--while in DotA 2 if you do this, Dismember is not queued until after Hook completes, which mean Pudge tries to turn around. This catches me out all the time when I cast Dismember on someone while they're still in the air. I'm not sure of the most efficient way to do this yet. pudge must be facing the dude where he will land. the easiest way to do it is clicking dismember on the person before the hook lands
Doesn't that just command Pudge to walk towards the guy even earlier?
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On August 19 2013 17:32 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 17:23 rabidch wrote:On August 19 2013 17:17 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 19 2013 16:45 TheYango wrote:On August 19 2013 16:34 FinestHour wrote:On August 19 2013 16:05 Erasme wrote:On August 19 2013 15:48 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
As seen on iceiceice's stream, the counter to fountain hook is Weaver. ggggggggg pudge can dismember weaver before he timelapses 99.99999999 percent of the playerbase doesnt shift que And of the remaining, most still don't know about the bug where you have to stand exactly where you cast hook or step back slightly to Dismember after Hook. Anyone used to DotA 1 where you could start Dismember on someone who is being hooked before the hook completes might walk forward slightly (in fact, that was actually the *correct* play because starting Dismember before Hook completes means even instant spells can't happen before Dismember starts)--while in DotA 2 if you do this, Dismember is not queued until after Hook completes, which mean Pudge tries to turn around. This catches me out all the time when I cast Dismember on someone while they're still in the air. I'm not sure of the most efficient way to do this yet. pudge must be facing the dude where he will land. the easiest way to do it is clicking dismember on the person before the hook lands Doesn't that just command Pudge to walk towards the guy even earlier?
yes, it doesnt work for fountain hooks obviously
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On August 19 2013 17:33 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 17:32 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 19 2013 17:23 rabidch wrote:On August 19 2013 17:17 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 19 2013 16:45 TheYango wrote:On August 19 2013 16:34 FinestHour wrote:On August 19 2013 16:05 Erasme wrote:On August 19 2013 15:48 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
As seen on iceiceice's stream, the counter to fountain hook is Weaver. ggggggggg pudge can dismember weaver before he timelapses 99.99999999 percent of the playerbase doesnt shift que And of the remaining, most still don't know about the bug where you have to stand exactly where you cast hook or step back slightly to Dismember after Hook. Anyone used to DotA 1 where you could start Dismember on someone who is being hooked before the hook completes might walk forward slightly (in fact, that was actually the *correct* play because starting Dismember before Hook completes means even instant spells can't happen before Dismember starts)--while in DotA 2 if you do this, Dismember is not queued until after Hook completes, which mean Pudge tries to turn around. This catches me out all the time when I cast Dismember on someone while they're still in the air. I'm not sure of the most efficient way to do this yet. pudge must be facing the dude where he will land. the easiest way to do it is clicking dismember on the person before the hook lands Doesn't that just command Pudge to walk towards the guy even earlier? yes, it doesnt work for fountain hooks obviously
But how does it work for regular hooks then?
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United States47024 Posts
On August 19 2013 17:24 Kuroeeah wrote:
Okay that affirms my beliefs, thank you.
Another and final solo match up question for the night. A pro player told me that in QoP vs Puck, QoP initially has the advantage until level 5, reason is because of silence. Agree or disagree?
The matchup plays too differently based on the skill level of the players for you to make generalizations.
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On August 19 2013 17:25 konadora wrote:
phantom lancer is disgustingly strong
managed to salvage a lost game by constantly pushing (enemy didnt know what was gem/sentry) and spamming lances to hold high ground
40 mins later, max inventory with bot, bfly, manta, heart, rebought diffusal 2 and gem (enemy were sb kunkka and juggernaut)
pushed all 3 lanes at one go, felt so good
end game said "GG", no response from team lol
That is every single game with Phantom Lancer.
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i'd say that QoP vs puck... If we're talking equal skill, is pretty much a draw, puck can't really harass the mobile qop with orb, and going in with orb>silence is a huge risk, alternatively, QoP can't really shadow strike puck, so its hard for her to wear puck down into burstableness
but QoP can fake the cast of shadow to try to get puck to waste phase shift, its a mind games and strategy fight, a great skillful match of two players on these can make for a very tense mid matchup
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On August 19 2013 17:42 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 17:33 rabidch wrote:On August 19 2013 17:32 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 19 2013 17:23 rabidch wrote:On August 19 2013 17:17 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 19 2013 16:45 TheYango wrote:On August 19 2013 16:34 FinestHour wrote:On August 19 2013 16:05 Erasme wrote:On August 19 2013 15:48 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
As seen on iceiceice's stream, the counter to fountain hook is Weaver. ggggggggg pudge can dismember weaver before he timelapses 99.99999999 percent of the playerbase doesnt shift que And of the remaining, most still don't know about the bug where you have to stand exactly where you cast hook or step back slightly to Dismember after Hook. Anyone used to DotA 1 where you could start Dismember on someone who is being hooked before the hook completes might walk forward slightly (in fact, that was actually the *correct* play because starting Dismember before Hook completes means even instant spells can't happen before Dismember starts)--while in DotA 2 if you do this, Dismember is not queued until after Hook completes, which mean Pudge tries to turn around. This catches me out all the time when I cast Dismember on someone while they're still in the air. I'm not sure of the most efficient way to do this yet. pudge must be facing the dude where he will land. the easiest way to do it is clicking dismember on the person before the hook lands Doesn't that just command Pudge to walk towards the guy even earlier? yes, it doesnt work for fountain hooks obviously But how does it work for regular hooks then?
Believe in yourself, dont move when you hook, 100% dismember (unless puck)
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think stancel (DoNotDisturb) made a nice summary of the matchup not long ago, defo worth a search on that post (i am on my phone so allow me to be this lazy ass).
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On August 19 2013 17:42 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 17:33 rabidch wrote:On August 19 2013 17:32 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 19 2013 17:23 rabidch wrote:On August 19 2013 17:17 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 19 2013 16:45 TheYango wrote:On August 19 2013 16:34 FinestHour wrote:On August 19 2013 16:05 Erasme wrote:On August 19 2013 15:48 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
As seen on iceiceice's stream, the counter to fountain hook is Weaver. ggggggggg pudge can dismember weaver before he timelapses 99.99999999 percent of the playerbase doesnt shift que And of the remaining, most still don't know about the bug where you have to stand exactly where you cast hook or step back slightly to Dismember after Hook. Anyone used to DotA 1 where you could start Dismember on someone who is being hooked before the hook completes might walk forward slightly (in fact, that was actually the *correct* play because starting Dismember before Hook completes means even instant spells can't happen before Dismember starts)--while in DotA 2 if you do this, Dismember is not queued until after Hook completes, which mean Pudge tries to turn around. This catches me out all the time when I cast Dismember on someone while they're still in the air. I'm not sure of the most efficient way to do this yet. pudge must be facing the dude where he will land. the easiest way to do it is clicking dismember on the person before the hook lands Doesn't that just command Pudge to walk towards the guy even earlier? yes, it doesnt work for fountain hooks obviously But how does it work for regular hooks then?
it will queue up the dismember for longer hooks, and pudge will turn that way
it works for non 0.01 animations
in fact im not sure if its possible to stop 0.01 from happening (i am no pudge player), because of his 0.3 casting animation
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United States47024 Posts
I don't think it's possible in DotA 2. It was in DotA 1 because Dismember could start on a target that was still in the process of being reeled in if you walked forward into the hook.
Honestly, Hook is just too different of a skill in DotA 2 compared to DotA 1.
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Is playing captains mode a better experience than all-pick in general? Do people there at least try to get a decent game going?
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EPT
