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United States47024 Posts
On August 17 2013 07:40 Mataza wrote:
I highly disagree with skywrath. He may generally need what atos offers him, but he needs other stats and effects much more immediately.
Against enemies that you can silence/slow you can easily blow up provided you have enough. But the enemies you can't catch with slow/silence will still elude you with Rod of Atos.
The enemies will most likely either gang you with several people and proceed to buy bkbs. Atos helps with neither.
Skywrath as a mid hero is fundamentally dependent on snowballing the game out of his lane advantage, extended into is respectable ganking ability. Atos is useful on him for maintaining midgame pressure where saving for a larger item would cause you to lose your stranglehold on the game (e.g. your team is winning, but they have an AM or something that's pretty farmed and you have to keep up the pressure because giving him space will allow his farm to suddenly explode).
What items did you have in mind for other stats? It's obviously not competing with Force Staff--you'll get Force Staff first, naturally. Sheepstick is nice when you can farm to one but creates a large power gap because of its expensive components. Eul's vs. Atos is probably the closest comparison but they have reasonable tradeoffs, with Eul's being somewhat stronger defensively and giving you better sustained regen and Atos being stronger offensively.
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Hey guys, is there a way to watch the International 3 in the game client, like the West/East qualifiers? Can't seem to find the replays and I don't wanna watch it on youtube.
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yeah there is, but the sound quality is trash
you should watch on youtube
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
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On August 17 2013 07:27 TheYango wrote:
Shouldn't be able to because pause is supposed to cancel unit orders, but I don't remember if it's bugged in DotA 2 like everything else related to pause.
I just ran some tests, you can indeed shift-queue blink out of astral. Behaviour is a little odd though. Normally I have auto-attack off, however when I shift-queue blink out of astral, OD starts attacking a hero if its within range (instead of blinking). You can fix it by issuing a stop command during astral, then shift-queueing blink and it'll work. No idea what is going on there...
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On August 17 2013 07:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 07:40 Mataza wrote:
I highly disagree with skywrath. He may generally need what atos offers him, but he needs other stats and effects much more immediately.
Against enemies that you can silence/slow you can easily blow up provided you have enough. But the enemies you can't catch with slow/silence will still elude you with Rod of Atos.
The enemies will most likely either gang you with several people and proceed to buy bkbs. Atos helps with neither. Skywrath as a mid hero is fundamentally dependent on snowballing the game out of his lane advantage, extended into is respectable ganking ability. Atos is useful on him for maintaining midgame pressure where saving for a larger item would cause you to lose your stranglehold on the game (e.g. your team is winning, but they have an AM or something that's pretty farmed and you have to keep up the pressure because giving him space will allow his farm to suddenly explode). What items did you have in mind for other stats? It's obviously not competing with Force Staff--you'll get Force Staff first, naturally. Sheepstick is nice when you can farm to one but creates a large power gap because of its expensive components. Eul's vs. Atos is probably the closest comparison but they have reasonable tradeoffs, with Eul's being somewhat stronger defensively and giving you better sustained regen and Atos being stronger offensively.
dont u need bkb to survive fights though
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On August 17 2013 07:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 07:40 Mataza wrote:
I highly disagree with skywrath. He may generally need what atos offers him, but he needs other stats and effects much more immediately.
Against enemies that you can silence/slow you can easily blow up provided you have enough. But the enemies you can't catch with slow/silence will still elude you with Rod of Atos.
The enemies will most likely either gang you with several people and proceed to buy bkbs. Atos helps with neither. Skywrath as a mid hero is fundamentally dependent on snowballing the game out of his lane advantage, extended into is respectable ganking ability. Atos is useful on him for maintaining midgame pressure where saving for a larger item would cause you to lose your stranglehold on the game (e.g. your team is winning, but they have an AM or something that's pretty farmed and you have to keep up the pressure because giving him space will allow his farm to suddenly explode). What items did you have in mind for other stats? It's obviously not competing with Force Staff--you'll get Force Staff first, naturally. Sheepstick is nice when you can farm to one but creates a large power gap because of its expensive components. Eul's vs. Atos is probably the closest comparison but they have reasonable tradeoffs, with Eul's being somewhat stronger defensively and giving you better sustained regen and Atos being stronger offensively.
The limiting factor to skywrath's stranglehold on the game is mana(unless you choose not to use your ulti or something).
Atos provides 325 manapool and 40 damage on a cast of arcane bolt. Considering that in my experience you cast 2 maybe 3-4 arcane bolts on an enemy before he dies, that doesn't add much.
Very quickly skywraths manapool becomes too huge to be refilled with clarity potions/bottle inbetween kills.
So mana regeneration increase should be a high priority.
Soulbooster into bloodstone is a possibility, euls with its good stats and movement speed another.
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United States47024 Posts
Bloodstone is even more situational than Atos. Eul's is good but again, has distinct tradeoffs with Atos. I'd get Eul's more often but Atos is good enough to be worth considering 1-2 games out of every 10, particularly in cases where your team has enough Arcane Boots in play to allow you to afford delaying your Void Stone.
Honestly, I should point out that 9 times out of 10 when I have to make a case for an item in this thread, it's not to say "this item is good you should always buy it". Rather, I agree in most cases that these items tend to not be generally applicable. But the most common error people make is buying the same items over and over again too often--and I'm simply trying to make the case that every game you should be stopping and thinking "is this a game where I can buy this?", rather than just dismissing an item like Vanguard or Atos immediately as "oh this item is bad, don't need to think about it".
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Why is Mekansm put on OD? It only has 5 int, and no mana. Shouldn't you put that on another support and get int items on OD?
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because he can farm faster at mid i think? a fast mek early game is so goood
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On August 17 2013 08:23 jrkirby wrote:
Why is Mekansm put on OD? It only has 5 int, and no mana. Shouldn't you put that on another support and get int items on OD?
He can get it super fast, spam on every cd cause mana is no issue, makes him more tanky and better team fight early on.
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
On August 17 2013 08:23 jrkirby wrote:
Why is Mekansm put on OD? It only has 5 int, and no mana. Shouldn't you put that on another support and get int items on OD?
it gives OD survivability, opens supports up to get other items, and it also helps trigger the essence aura if needed.
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United States47024 Posts
The early game benefit of stacking more Intelligence is actually quite mediocre for OD. His inherent damage is already quite high and he simply doesn't benefit from the mana component except for adding to his damage. His engagement range is very low and he lacks defensive stats, so an item that gives him armor and healing, is very nice. He's also not strained by the mana usage because he basically has infinite mana once he maxes Essence Aura.
There are many cases where a hero with high inherent damage-dealing ability benefits more from having a defensive item that allows you to stay in the fight more than he does from having another pure damage item, at least in the early-midgame. OD is one of those heroes, as is Viper, who was discussed earlier today.
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For that final game that ended in a loss, why didn't you guys pick beast master over CM? I don't remember him being banned and it would have given you guys something to shut down bat.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On August 17 2013 08:57 Streetguru wrote:
For that final game that ended in a loss, why didn't you guys pick beast master over CM? I don't remember him being banned and it would have given you guys something to shut down bat.
Er, which game are you talking about?
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28103 Posts
Maybe TL's last game in TI3? We were picking CM iirc.
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Acting like the general discussion thread has any relevance to the pro team of liquid is kind of cute.
Afaik players don't really interact much in the TL forum.
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On August 17 2013 09:16 Mataza wrote:
Acting like the general discussion thread has any relevance to the pro team of liquid is kind of cute.
Afaik players don't really interact much in the TL forum.
Bulba posts in the LR threads occasionally.
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On August 17 2013 09:22 Unleashing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 09:16 Mataza wrote:
Acting like the general discussion thread has any relevance to the pro team of liquid is kind of cute.
Afaik players don't really interact much in the TL forum. Bulba posts in the LR threads occasionally.
standard bulba post
or
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U can shift queue a ton of commands that you shouldn't be able to, the most impact full being the ability to bkb out of stuff like disruption->Ice path
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EPT
