EPTThere is no need for every hero to be powerful in every metagame of Dota.
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
There is no need for every hero to be powerful in every metagame of Dota. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 15 2013 00:48 Comeh wrote: I'm not sure you understand how powerful / reliant warlock is on his ultimate for the first 15-20 minutes of the game. It's literally the entire hero (unless the gyro / spectre on your team get 4 items). I'm not sure you understand how bad diffusal is to get as a first item immediately after boots. I also don't think you understand how warlock is played effectively. Its literally not even the majority of the hero. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On August 15 2013 00:47 canikizu wrote: How many support can handle splitpush lol? In the world of cc and gank, warlock is trash. IF should fix him by giving him a cc like other 100 heroes. He can't be effectively run as a support and there are a multitude of heroes mid who offer so much more then he does. Other mid heroes can also handle splitpush way better then he can. I mean he is going to sit in a trilane and do what, fatal bonds people? Heroes with actual CC(and or single target damage) will roll over you. Moreover compared to other supports he doesn't gank, he doesn't counterpush, he doesn't farm the jungle very fast(These are also reasons why he isn't picked as much regardless of being run mid or support), the list is endless. Diffusal is actually a pretty good reason too why you don't run him as a support. He can be run as seen in the past but is very niche. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 15 2013 00:48 Comeh wrote: I'm not sure you understand how powerful / reliant warlock is on his ultimate for the first 15-20 minutes of the game. It's literally the entire hero (unless the gyro / spectre on your team get 4 items). Yes, but for the first 15 of those 15-20 minutes, it's unlikely that the enemy has a Diffusal to use on your Golem unless their carry straight rushed it without another major item (in which case, he will probably die in a round of spells regardless). Generally Diffusal is a second major item paired with something like Drums as first item, meaning that you won't expect to see one until the tail end of those first 15-20 minutes. On August 15 2013 00:50 Firebolt145 wrote: Or he should leave him alone so that when the metagame shifts away from split push he will raise in popularity again. There is no need for every hero to be powerful in every metagame of Dota. This. Fundamentally Warlock is a hero that thrives in a metagame that's 100% teamfight and he's very good in this niche. This is honestly fine--it's ok to have heroes that thrive in specific scenarios like this while being less useful in others. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On August 15 2013 00:29 PrinceXizor wrote: Its also not very strong or efficient to be using diffusal on a single golem. saving the charges for that puts you in shit situations, makes you adverse to upgrading the diffusal immediately, weakening your fighting overall by a quite a bit, and ceases to be useful after 10 minutes, or aghanims/refresher on warlock. and warlock isn't 90% golem, that's just ignorance about how effective fatal bonds truly is as well as the stun initiate and about his overall damage from his autos. yeah and diffusal blade is probably one of the single most minor issues with warlock. thats like saying HOTD makes chen useless so teams shouldn't play chen. :/ Fatal bonds is ok. The spell doesn't prioritize heroes however, which means he needs a no creep setup to land it on heroes. Compared to other skills which prefer a no creep setup(Luna, Juggernaut, Lich, Leshrac etc.) They payout is on average much less. Those other heroes can do huge damage without creeps around, while in the same situation fatal bonds does only increase damage. The bigger spell imho is upheaval. Maximum slow that goes through bkb just royally fucks melee heroes. Still, the hero is all about his ult. 1 sec stun through bkb in a big area is really nice. But the main damage comes from the golems, specifically the pulverize ability. If you take that away warlock is suddenly very weak except in a rare few cases. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
What's so wrong with him that hes not used at all right now. | ||
MrHoon
10183 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On August 15 2013 01:09 Kipsate wrote: He can't be effectively run as a support and there are a multitude of heroes mid who offer so much more then he does. Other mid heroes can also handle splitpush way better then he can. I mean he is going to sit in a trilane and do what, fatal bonds people? Heroes with actual CC(and or single target damage) will roll over you. Moreover compared to other supports he doesn't gank, he doesn't counterpush, he doesn't farm the jungle very fast(These are also reasons why he isn't picked as much regardless of being run mid or support), the list is endless. Diffusal is actually a pretty good reason too why you don't run him as a support. He can be run as seen in the past but is very niche. So you agree with me that IF should give him a cc like other 1000 heroes so that he can be effective in gank? | ||
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Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:11 cecek wrote: I still don't know why Lycan completely disappeared. He can still jungle even with the wolf hp nerf, especially if he's pooled a tango, or something. It feels like he'd be good in the metagame, junglers are not uncommon, early roshes with medallion rushes are common, bkb carries are used, splitpushing is good now. What's so wrong with him that hes not used at all right now. Too much of an investment probably. Chen has often to go out with sentries to be able to jungle since people block camps pretty often now with sentries, Lycan can't really because he need every bit of gold he can early on. His jungling is also pretty risky when you have to tank and will often stay at low hp. Old Lycan was a completely different beast. He often started with sentries because people actively counterjungled him, and still farmed extremely fast without ever getting endangered by creeps with wolves tanking. | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:26 MrHoon wrote: I agree, I was a bit surprised not to see even 1 lycan pick in ti3 id say if lgdint went further we would have seen one lycan pick | ||
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Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:29 canikizu wrote: So you agree with me that IF should give him a cc like other 1000 heroes so that he can be effective in gank? Imho he should give him something, like a CC maybe? Like other 10000 heroes so he could gank. Seriously no. Warlock is extremely , extremely reliant on teamfights. I'd just like to see his upheaval reworked , but not in a stun. Last word also's pretty bad. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Most interestingly is that eSports crate. That's apparently like the normal chests, it has a bunch of valve made items, you buy a key. And then they (somehow) put that money towards eSports prize pools. I wonder if this is because they don't think they can implement a ticket system into CS:GO successfully or if this might be something they'd bring to Dota, as with TF2 there are a lot of things they test in one game and then add to another. I personally think that it would be enormous if implemented in Dota. Although I worry about how they would distribute it. It would have to be something like "if you hold a tournament over X amount and register for it we will add Y percent". Because I can't imagine Valve saying "okay Dreamhack, here's 50k". and that p90 is sick | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
Wait why am i posting this here | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On August 15 2013 03:33 cecek wrote: Yeah I don't know, Dota has too many tournaments for it to really work.Yay, more hats! I assume the cs community is absolutely hating this, right? I don't think we'll see "esports keys" in Dota 2. That doesn't seem like it's something Valve wants to do with the Dota 2 esports scene. CS community seems generally positive about it, many were expecting f2p. Seems about the same amount of whiners as there was when Dota 2 started cosmetics. | ||
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Daray
6006 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2889 Posts
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Hertzy
Finland355 Posts
Accounting for the facts that there are 49 carries and that a lineup will contain from one to (greedy) three carries, I pared it down.... to eighteen trillion and a bit. | ||
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