EPTOn July 08 2013 21:35 tosadalis wrote:
Valve needs to learn from CCP and stop with the carebearing bullshit.
Valve needs to learn from CCP and stop with the carebearing bullshit.
Last I checked EVE doesn't have a rating system.
^_^
General Discussion - Page 3268
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
Last I checked EVE doesn't have a rating system. ^_^ | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
A team based ranking. It already has a ranking system, you just can't see your little number. Which wont make you a better player, at all. Seeing that number does nothing for you outside of ofcourse having a way to stroke your e-penis. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On July 08 2013 21:59 Souone wrote: I've seen the interview, he doesn't really say much and it's been 5 months, if they are unhappy with it doesn't look like they are doing much about it. I expect its a little difficult to implement a perfect system with takes into consideration your skills among 108 heroes that you decide on after the system has already found your opponents, as well as your 4 teammates and 5 enemies.' Here is the equation for mm in starcraft 2, where you have one main race against one opponent with one main race. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/F3IQfFJ.png) I don't want to even see the one they're using for dota 2, fearing my head will explode upon reading it, or ill turn blind like reading the elder scrolls. | ||
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tosadalis
United Kingdom119 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:07 hfglgg wrote: i have seen this maybe 20 times in about 2k games. the only time people use the chat is for flaming and blaming. lol Well maybe you're in the trench. On July 08 2013 22:11 Unleashing wrote: Dota has the kind of openly visible ranking system that matters in a team based game. A team based ranking. It already has a ranking system, you just can't see your little number. Which wont make you a better player, at all. Seeing that number does nothing for you outside of ofcourse having a way to stroke your e-penis. It helps you see if you're progressing and if anything you change makes you a better player? Like play carries or supports more and see how that changes your ranking? Am I the only one who thinks this way? On July 08 2013 22:18 Excludos wrote: I expect its a little difficult to implement a perfect system with takes into consideration your skills among 108 heroes that you decide on after the system has already found your opponents, as well as your 4 teammates and 5 enemies.' Here is the equation for mm in starcraft 2, where you have one main race against one opponent with one main race. I don't want to even see the one they're using for dota 2, fearing my head will explode upon reading it, or ill turn blind like reading the elder scrolls. I know I shouldn't mention league here because you have a chance to get stoned to death, but doesn't league have a nice league/ranking system? It's certainly doable and if these rumours about a hidden rank system are true, all they have to do is implement it into the UI, right? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10953 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:07 Firebolt145 wrote: Last I checked EVE doesn't have a rating system. ^_^ That complaint when it comes to the MMS is stupid.. BUT.. Just out of boredom i played the tutorials yesterday.... They are pretty much 100% pointless, you learn absolutely nothing except that you can buy items and have to use your skillpoints (and putting them into stats and much other stuff is not even touched upon), you learn completly wrong itembuilds (basillus/arcane boots sniper... rly? While shrapnell sniper is "a thing" that seems to be a bit overkill  ).The AI in the 1on1 mid tutorial is so bad that they could also just let one extra creep spawn. These do nothing, the ones in Eve actually teach you stuff... | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:25 tosadalis wrote: Well maybe you're in the trench. It helps you see if you're progressing and if anything you change makes you a better player? Like play carries or supports more and see how that changes your ranking? Am I the only one who thinks this way? I know I shouldn't mention league here because you have a chance to get stoned to death, but doesn't league have a nice league/ranking system? It's certainly doable and if these rumours about a hidden rank system are true, all they have to do is implement it into the UI, right? You are allowed to talk about LoL but your not allowed to say anything positive about it. *throws stone* | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:27 Velr wrote: That complaint when it comes to the MMS is stupid.. BUT.. Just out of boredom i played the tutorials yesterday.... They are pretty much 100% pointless, you learn absolutely nothing except that you can buy items and have to use your skillpoints (and putting them into stats and much other stuff is not even touched upon), you learn completly wrong itembuilds (basillus/arcane boots sniper... rly? While shrapnell sniper is "a thing" that seems to be a bit overkill ).The AI in the 1on1 mid tutorial is so bad that they could also just let one extra creep spawn. These do nothing, the ones in Eve actually teach you stuff... I think they're ok. Most games have a singleplayer champaign that works as a tutorial for the game. But in this case, the tutorials have to show the basics of the basics "get lasthits, gain xp and money, lvl up, buy items, win", and it does that job well. What items you buy in you first 10 games isn't really going to matter. They do also show how to use the in-game hero guides, which covers the little bit more advanced stuff pretty nicely anyways. I do wish they could include a couple of challenges like the ones in sc2 though. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:25 tosadalis wrote: Well maybe you're in the trench. Ah yes, let's question a persons skill. I definitely see why you'd be the kind of person to dislike the muting system. On July 08 2013 22:25 tosadalis wrote: It helps you see if you're progressing and if anything you change makes you a better player? Like play carries or supports more and see how that changes your ranking? Am I the only one who thinks this way? You can't notice yourself if you're doing worse or better? I don't see it helping at all, i can quite clearly see if i'm doing better or worse and if my enemies are getting better or worse. On July 08 2013 22:25 tosadalis wrote:umours about a hidden rank system are true Rumors? How the hell is it rumors. Do you think the current system just random matches people together? There is a system already, valve is keeping it hidden on purpose. | ||
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Souone
Brazil470 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:18 Excludos wrote: I expect its a little difficult to implement a perfect system with takes into consideration your skills among 108 heroes that you decide on after the system has already found your opponents, as well as your 4 teammates and 5 enemies.' Here is the equation for mm in starcraft 2, where you have one main race against one opponent with one main race. I don't want to even see the one they're using for dota 2, fearing my head will explode upon reading it, or ill turn blind like reading the elder scrolls. Valve is a multi-billion dollar company who gets to pick the best of the best to work with them... If they can't get a game MM algorithm to the point where they are satisfied with it I just tend to think it's not a priority. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:39 Souone wrote: Valve is a multi-billion dollar company who gets to pick the best of the best to work with them... If they can't get a game MM algorithm to the point where they are satisfied with it I just tend to think it's not a priority. I don't think it matters how much money you have if what you're looking for is an impossibility.. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:25 tosadalis wrote: I know I shouldn't mention league here because you have a chance to get stoned to death, but doesn't league have a nice league/ranking system? It's certainly doable and if these rumours about a hidden rank system are true, all they have to do is implement it into the UI, right? league had(!) an elo based ranking system which was very potent in showing any ones solo-skill (!). they changed it to a much less open league based system where your real progress isnt shown as clearly as before. why did they change it? because the majority of people is not getting better relative to others, so if you force a rating system onto them, you show 50% of the players that they are garbage trash and they should shut the fuck up (because thats what will happen in arguments. "lol this pen isnt blue you bronze scum, its clearly teal") and about 45% of the rest hits a brick wall were they wont improve whatsoever unless they commit some serious time in it. they will also be furstrated. on top of that you get the ladder anxiety problem, so players will just stop playing because they might lose rating. all in all, a forced rating/ranking system will make almost everyone unhappy and if it is not forced, the community will make sure that everyone who is not playing the ranked mode cant even differentiate between blue and teal. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:39 Souone wrote: Valve is a multi-billion dollar company who gets to pick the best of the best to work with them... If they can't get a game MM algorithm to the point where they are satisfied with it I just tend to think it's not a priority. Money doesn't give you good ideas out of thin air. Valve might be working hard on trying to think up a good system, we don't know. And if you so badly want a rank-based place to play go find an inhouse league, plenty exist. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Where did I last hear trench? Oh right, it was from 4chan, /vg/. You didn't by any chance pick that up there, did you? If I had to guess, I would say you sound like one of those people who would use their mmr number as an argument to be right. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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tosadalis
United Kingdom119 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:36 Unleashing wrote: Ah yes, let's question a persons skill. I definitely see why you'd be the kind of person to dislike the muting system. You can't notice yourself if you're doing worse or better? I don't see it helping at all, i can quite clearly see if i'm doing better or worse and if my enemies are getting better or worse. Rumors? How the hell is it rumors. Do you think the current system just random matches people together? There is a system already, valve is keeping it hidden on purpose. It's hard to tell if you're doing better or not at ''higher'' brackets. Few months back I used to play a loooot of dota, I got matched with some known pros once in a while and yet I get matched with complete retards few games after, it's really hard to see if I'm doing better or not. In starcraft, I was playing and I could see if I'm advancing through leagues, if I couldn't see them, yes I could probably tell if I improved or not, but I wouldn't be able to tell by how much exactly. There is literally no drawback at having a visible public rank system apart people possibly teasing you about your league. I'll say again, starcraft has league, but if you go to ok-ish community discussions you don't see people trashtalking you about your rank and you don't see trashtalking in ladders regarding your league because your opponent/teammate is in the same league(most likely). So what's the point of having it hidden? | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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Souone
Brazil470 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:42 Unleashing wrote: Money doesn't give you good ideas out of thin air. Valve might be working hard on trying to think up a good system, we don't know. And if you so badly want a rank-based place to play go find an inhouse league, plenty exist. I didn't say anything about ranked, I asked for a source of a statement and then started to talk about Valve not doing anything about the MM system if they are unhappy with it (not public MMR). What i'm mostly disappointed is with the (lack of) information Valve puts out. Maybe you wanted to quote the other guy, dunno. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:48 tosadalis wrote: It's hard to tell if you're doing better or not at ''higher'' brackets. Few months back I used to play a loooot of dota, I got matched with some known pros once in a while and yet I get matched with complete retards few games after, it's really hard to see if I'm doing better or not. In starcraft, I was playing and I could see if I'm advancing through leagues, if I couldn't see them, yes I could probably tell if I improved or not, but I wouldn't be able to tell by how much exactly. There is literally no drawback at having a visible public rank system apart people possibly teasing you about your league. I'll say again, starcraft has league, but if you go to ok-ish community discussions you don't see people trashtalking you about your rank and you don't see trashtalking in ladders regarding your league because your opponent/teammate is in the same league(most likely). So what's the point of having it hidden? did you live under a rock? no drawback of public ratings? there is a reason the popular games (sc2 / lol) use a rating system that try to hide how godawful you truly are as good as they can. | ||
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