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On June 08 2013 13:32 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 13:21 igotmyown wrote:
Is it worth talking about the role of a hero that isn't in cm and likely will be changed quite a bit before he returns to cm? is dota worth understanding?
Well I've been scrambling to get ahead of the curve on 6.78, and the problem is there are so many changes that require testing/practice, that I don't feel I have enough dota time to spend time on a huskar or medusa (or zet).
Things like the razor buff/ss agh buff seem small, but numerically they're much larger than people expect.
Or drow/centaur in competitive. Or naga having 10 second riptide at level 1. Or healing fountain treant.
edit: or the ward change, nobody wants to talk about that? or cm drafting changes?
and tooting my own horn on morphling armlet
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17408015
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actually i dont even see where theyango agreed with his argument about spells > autos
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On June 08 2013 15:37 FinestHour wrote:
actually i dont even see where theyango agreed with his argument about spells > autos
not there. about the concept of huskar being the type of carry (like razor) that wants to absorb damage. and dead9 then said huskar isn't like razor at all because razor deals most of his damage with spells and huskar does it through damage alone and can't disengage. ghost scepter aghs allows easy disengage, and mathematically huskars burning spears and ultimate beat out building damage until you get to over +220 damage from items. which for any discussion of a standard early-mid game build means that spells > autos. even CM does more damage with items than spells if you give her 15-20k of physical damage items Yango has also agreed about mek potentially being a great item on husk, as well as mentioning that he can see ghost/aghs as core for new husk. the actual discussion got drowned out by a few pages of dead9 goign "OMG 1v1 NOOB"
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yeah when you build dps items you definitely never ulti and never use burning spears good thing you're so good at this game
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On June 08 2013 15:51 Dead9 wrote:
yeah when you build dps items you definitely never ulti and never use burning spears good thing you're so good at this game
what are you talking about? of course you do. because its how you do most of your damage.
Can someone else who knows alegbra teach dead9 about it so i don't have to.
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On June 08 2013 15:53 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 15:51 Dead9 wrote:
yeah when you build dps items you definitely never ulti and never use burning spears good thing you're so good at this game what are you talking about? of course you do. because its how you do most of your damage. Can someone else who knows alegbra teach dead9 about it so i don't have to.
Good:
Halberd
Mek
aghanims
ghost scepter
AC
Pipe
ect.
Bad:
BKB
Deso
daedalus
Abyssal Blade
Shadow blade
MKB
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Was randoming necrolyte then i realized: i traded my mythical scythe away  .... now the hero ulti is good, i dont have the special animation . Lesson: never let greed win you over.
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On June 08 2013 15:53 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 15:51 Dead9 wrote:
yeah when you build dps items you definitely never ulti and never use burning spears good thing you're so good at this game what are you talking about? of course you do. because its how you do most of your damage. Can someone else who knows alegbra teach dead9 about it so i don't have to.
"mathematically huskars burning spears and ultimate beat out building damage until you get to over +220 damage from items"
want to explain this so i can tell you why you're wrong
or do you want me to respond to theorycraft that doesn't even make sense
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Hey guys, have any of you tried building battlefury on phantom assassin? She farms insanely fast with it, probably on par if not faster than antimage.
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On June 08 2013 15:59 Daozzt wrote:
Hey guys, have any of you tried building battlefury on phantom assassin? She farms insanely fast with it, probably on par if not faster than antimage.
probably? most definitely.
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specially if your supports do their job and ward your own jungle.
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On June 08 2013 16:01 SKC wrote:
specially if your supports do their job and ward your own jungle.
the 1 stock ward was a huge nerf thoguh
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On June 08 2013 15:58 Dead9 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 15:53 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 08 2013 15:51 Dead9 wrote:
yeah when you build dps items you definitely never ulti and never use burning spears good thing you're so good at this game what are you talking about? of course you do. because its how you do most of your damage. Can someone else who knows alegbra teach dead9 about it so i don't have to. "mathematically huskars burning spears and ultimate beat out building damage until you get to over +220 damage from items" want to explain this so i can tell you why you're wrong or do you want me to respond to theorycraft that doesn't even make sense
On June 08 2013 14:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
I'm more interested in how you are saying that new huskar somehow does more damage with straight damage than his spells, and aghs ghost scepter huskar somehow isn't good at avoiding trouble. Huskar does 140 per burning spear and 65% current hp with his ultimate, which comes off cooldown every 4 seconds with aghs. fighting a 1000 enemy (somehow) he does 650+(140+Damage)#ofattacks. in order for his damage to overcome that 140 from burning spears at level 16 he needs 80 damage, which is relatively easy to get, but then the difference of (Total damage - 140)#numberofattacks has to be > 650 so for having 120ish bonus damage at level 16 (armlet + phase + demon edge) he has to attack 17 times. but by the time he attack 17 times, his burning spears and ulti would have killed the target 14 attacks ago. if we ramp this up to attacking a target with 10000 hp, then his ulti does 6500 damage, and you'd need 170 attacks, which again takes too long. on enemies of less than 500 hp you still lose out to his spell damage. there is no value of an opponents HP in which damage will outscale his abiltiy damage. within a reasonable amount of damage (a divine huskar would outdeal his abilities for instance, if you rushed divine instead of ghost scepter aghs.
+200 damage means that huskar deals 280 a hit (roughly), meaning that his auto attacks deal twice as much as burning spear. so that means that 280-140 = 140 and 650 = 5 attacks to deal more damage than the ulti on a 1k hp target (burning spears damage is accounted for already), in these 5 attacks burning spears will have done 700 damage, and the ultimate will have done 650, effectively killing the 1000 hp target. meaning even though +200 is roughly the breaking point for when your physical damage will start out damaging your magic damage from spells, they are roughly equivalent at this point and both will end up killing the target with the same number of hits. 20 damage more and you kill them in 1 fewer hit with physical damage than magical. All in all this means that it takes +220 damage from items to have your spells not be the majority of your damage, in all practicality. though i suppose 201 is technically the breaking point, but the breaking point of 201 is practically worthless.
and this is with a 1k hp target, it becomes more difficult to break the magic damage from huskar with physical damage the higher the current hp of the target.
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lagmaster
United States374 Posts
On June 08 2013 15:53 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 15:51 Dead9 wrote:
yeah when you build dps items you definitely never ulti and never use burning spears good thing you're so good at this game what are you talking about? of course you do. because its how you do most of your damage. Can someone else who knows alegbra teach dead9 about it so i don't have to.
DEFEND YOUR HONOR! Accept the grudge match!
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On June 08 2013 15:59 Daozzt wrote:
Hey guys, have any of you tried building battlefury on phantom assassin? She farms insanely fast with it, probably on par if not faster than antimage.
It's pretty much one of the main builds of PA. Requires your team to actually give you room to farm a BF though.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 08 2013 16:01 SKC wrote:
specially if your supports do their job and ward your own jungle.
Nah you just get a HoD and blink to the creep and its like the same thing as AM blink.
On June 08 2013 16:08 ReignSupreme. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 15:59 Daozzt wrote:
Hey guys, have any of you tried building battlefury on phantom assassin? She farms insanely fast with it, probably on par if not faster than antimage. It's pretty much one of the main builds of PA. Requires your team to actually give you room to farm a BF though.
*whoosh*
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You can make your team ward the camps so you get vision and you can just blink from camp to camp right guys
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On June 08 2013 16:17 TheKefka wrote:
You can make your team ward the camps so you get vision and you can just blink from camp to camp right guys
no, you get all your supports to buy quelling blades so you can cut down the forest that way they don't have to waste 200 gold on wards for you.
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On June 08 2013 16:17 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 16:01 SKC wrote:
specially if your supports do their job and ward your own jungle. Nah you just get a HoD and blink to the creep and its like the same thing as AM blink. Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 16:08 ReignSupreme. wrote:On June 08 2013 15:59 Daozzt wrote:
Hey guys, have any of you tried building battlefury on phantom assassin? She farms insanely fast with it, probably on par if not faster than antimage. It's pretty much one of the main builds of PA. Requires your team to actually give you room to farm a BF though. *whoosh*
i've tried hotd and its really not fast enough.
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On June 08 2013 16:06 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 15:58 Dead9 wrote:On June 08 2013 15:53 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 08 2013 15:51 Dead9 wrote:
yeah when you build dps items you definitely never ulti and never use burning spears good thing you're so good at this game what are you talking about? of course you do. because its how you do most of your damage. Can someone else who knows alegbra teach dead9 about it so i don't have to. "mathematically huskars burning spears and ultimate beat out building damage until you get to over +220 damage from items" want to explain this so i can tell you why you're wrong or do you want me to respond to theorycraft that doesn't even make sense Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 14:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
I'm more interested in how you are saying that new huskar somehow does more damage with straight damage than his spells, and aghs ghost scepter huskar somehow isn't good at avoiding trouble. Huskar does 140 per burning spear and 65% current hp with his ultimate, which comes off cooldown every 4 seconds with aghs. fighting a 1000 enemy (somehow) he does 650+(140+Damage)#ofattacks. in order for his damage to overcome that 140 from burning spears at level 16 he needs 80 damage, which is relatively easy to get, but then the difference of (Total damage - 140)#numberofattacks has to be > 650 so for having 120ish bonus damage at level 16 (armlet + phase + demon edge) he has to attack 17 times. but by the time he attack 17 times, his burning spears and ulti would have killed the target 14 attacks ago. if we ramp this up to attacking a target with 10000 hp, then his ulti does 6500 damage, and you'd need 170 attacks, which again takes too long. on enemies of less than 500 hp you still lose out to his spell damage. there is no value of an opponents HP in which damage will outscale his abiltiy damage. within a reasonable amount of damage (a divine huskar would outdeal his abilities for instance, if you rushed divine instead of ghost scepter aghs. +200 damage means that huskar deals 280 a hit (roughly), meaning that his auto attacks deal twice as much as burning spear. so that means that 280-140 = 140 and 650 = 5 attacks to deal more damage than the ulti on a 1k hp target (burning spears damage is accounted for already), in these 5 attacks burning spears will have done 700 damage, and the ultimate will have done 650, effectively killing the 1000 hp target. meaning even though +200 is roughly the breaking point for when your physical damage will start out damaging your magic damage from spells, they are roughly equivalent at this point and both will end up killing the target with the same number of hits. 20 damage more and you kill them in 1 fewer hit with physical damage than magical. All in all this means that it takes +220 damage from items to have your spells not be the majority of your damage, in all practicality. though i suppose 201 is technically the breaking point, but the breaking point of 201 is practically worthless. and this is with a 1k hp target, it becomes more difficult to break the magic damage from huskar with physical damage the higher the current hp of the target.
i wasn't sure if you were actually that clueless
why do you think you don't have burning spears or ultimate when you go dps items? also, burning spears is a dot and not instant damage, magic resist and bkb exist, and disables stop you from attacking and leaping on people
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EPT
