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On May 28 2013 09:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:
There's a difference between pointing out a mistake and essentially saying "wow, I would have played this so much better!" Essentially what Aui was doing that game. He gave his input on how he would do things differently that it just made him seem really condescending towards loda's play. Even his tone of voice sometimes. It wasn't comparable to anything else other casters have done.
Imagine watching a basketball game and you have a former pro saying "I would have done this this and this instead of what they did". It's essentially looking down on the players in the game right now and saying you're better than them.
It's the fact that he puts HIMSELF in there. If he pointed out the mistake and just left it that it would be no big deal.
Why shouldn't a caster be allowed to do that?
Why shouldn't a caster be allowed to look at what a player is doing and nitpick some of their decisions? Because it will make loda feel or look bad? Shouldn't a professional be up for reasonable (and it was reasonable) criticism or analyzing of their play?
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On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second
I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it.
On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself
What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting.
I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices.
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On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices.
No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing".
It isn't saying he's a better player.
I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is.
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On May 28 2013 09:20 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:20 BurningSera wrote:
lol what, aui 'criticized' loda's spec should get skadi? That is just his personal opinion on that and shouldn't be taken serious at all. Late game spec without heart is just a joke. Look at what he did in his 4v5 game today, game was dragged out to 58mins because the spec had 170dmg with manta+skadi and then he bought a heart (and then a bfly).
Sometimes i really don't understand what is aui up to. As if he was using his 'pro status' to prove something else to the world (which usually failed or irked people) while armlet bear is one of many 'weird' builds that he did and become popular later but he wasn't the first one who did it anyway. All Aui said about the Skadi thing is that he was experimenting with Skadi, but he liked heart there anyways because heart is good for breaking the base
On May 28 2013 09:25 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:20 BurningSera wrote:
lol what, aui 'criticized' loda's spec should get skadi? That is just his personal opinion on that and shouldn't be taken serious at all. Late game spec without heart is just a joke. Look at what he did in his 4v5 game today, game was dragged out to 58mins because the spec had 170dmg with manta+skadi and then he bought a heart (and then a bfly).
Sometimes i really don't understand what is aui up to. As if he was using his 'pro status' to prove something else to the world (which usually failed or irked people) while armlet bear is one of many 'weird' builds that he did and become popular later but he wasn't the first one who did it anyway. The complaints are about the PL game, where he kept pointing a lot of little things Loda could have done better to farm faster/end the game earlier. If was far more mild that what I've heard several other casters say. Aren't chinese and russian casters known for trash talking players and builds and people like them for it? I don't think you should go that far, but it's silly to focus that much on Aui when he barely said anything meaningful and was never rude about it. The game just had a lot of downtime and he filled it by saying what he felt Loda could do better. Not the best idea but not the travesty some people accuse him of.
I have not heard what exactly he said so i probably shouldn't comment on that but if he specifically mentioned it was him who was experimenting skadi spec and he wasn't rude when talking about it then i see no problem with that.
While in the pl case of saying 'Loda could have done better to farm faster/end the game earlier' is just annoying (to loda) but no biggie to me. But why would you do that when you are casting the game is beyond me, I dont want to learn about 'how would X does better' and if you must do that you better be someone who is very respectable. Like, even 09 dont say stuffs like that.
Chinese casters don't generally trash talk the player unless the player did something really out of place (eg. not getting a single level swarm on weaver), they usually try to do the best reasoning from the player's pov or simply conclude that is coming some certain playstyle etc (like the lothar on slark).
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United States19229 Posts
On May 28 2013 09:33 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:
There's a difference between pointing out a mistake and essentially saying "wow, I would have played this so much better!" Essentially what Aui was doing that game. He gave his input on how he would do things differently that it just made him seem really condescending towards loda's play. Even his tone of voice sometimes. It wasn't comparable to anything else other casters have done.
Imagine watching a basketball game and you have a former pro saying "I would have done this this and this instead of what they did". It's essentially looking down on the players in the game right now and saying you're better than them.
It's the fact that he puts HIMSELF in there. If he pointed out the mistake and just left it that it would be no big deal. Why shouldn't a caster be allowed to do that? Why shouldn't a caster be allowed to look at what a player is doing and nitpick some of their decisions? Because it will make loda feel or look bad? Shouldn't a professional be up for reasonable (and it was reasonable) criticism or analyzing of their play?
When we know a player is inferior (AUI) we don't want to hear him saying he could have played it better. It's his word choice and his way of always putting in how he would have played it differently that makes it annoying and a separate thing all together from pointing out a bad play.
An example:
Loda really should split his illusions. - This is fine
See, my team never picks me PL and it annoys me when other players play it wrong. - Not fine
And an even a more minute example:
X item can also be good on this hero.
vs.
I like to go X item on this hero.
He has to take himself out of the cast.
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On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is.
Pretty much this
He's not saying he doesn't make mistakes, its clear to anyone with a brain that playing the game and being in the moment is stuff that its hard to see your own mistakes, because you're making snap decisions, you don't have that much time to think about each action
Where from a viewer/caster's point of view, its very easy to see mistakes because you're watching from a cool and collected point of view, with more information than the player, and more ability to notice mistakes
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On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is.
You aren't a pro player though, which is my point. When another pro player attacks another pro players actions it is very personal, because they are implying they are better whether they want to or not. Loda obviously got upset about a player that is nowhere near as good as him saying on stream his item choice was bad.
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On May 28 2013 09:42 MiX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is. You aren't a pro player though, which is my point. When another pro player attacks another pro players actions it is very personal, because they are implying they are better whether they want to or not. Loda obviously got upset about a player that is nowhere near as good as saying on stream his item choice was bad.
When they are casting, they are casters, not players. You can't say any pro can't say a word of critiscism on a cast without implying he is better than the other guy, because that means you can't have pros casting at all. Pointing mistakes is pointing mistakes, they don't have to imply anything because everyone knows it's easier to pick apart mistakes outside the game, with time and with full vision.
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On May 28 2013 09:42 MiX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is. You aren't a pro player though, which is my point. When another pro player attacks another pro players actions it is very personal, because they are implying they are better whether they want to or not. Loda obviously got upset about a player that is nowhere near as good as him saying on stream his item choice was bad.
Egos egos eeegooos
There are 3 options for a pro who feels someone else is saying they're better than they are with criticism
1. Accept the criticism, use it to improve, be even -better- than before
2. Ignore it/laugh it off, because you're better than them anyways
3. Turn it into an internet dickwaving contest
Loda chose 3.
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On May 28 2013 09:42 MiX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is. You aren't a pro player though, which is my point. When another pro player attacks another pro players actions it is very personal, because they are implying they are better whether they want to or not. Loda obviously got upset about a player that is nowhere near as good as him saying on stream his item choice was bad.
He wasn't attacking him. He was analyzing his play, this includes negative aspects.
I'm not sure why this needs to be about "attacking" loda.
He wasn't.
+ Show Spoiler + Hell, Loda is being much more unprofessional about the "fallout" of this than Aui is. That says a lot to me.
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On May 28 2013 09:39 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:33 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:
There's a difference between pointing out a mistake and essentially saying "wow, I would have played this so much better!" Essentially what Aui was doing that game. He gave his input on how he would do things differently that it just made him seem really condescending towards loda's play. Even his tone of voice sometimes. It wasn't comparable to anything else other casters have done.
Imagine watching a basketball game and you have a former pro saying "I would have done this this and this instead of what they did". It's essentially looking down on the players in the game right now and saying you're better than them.
It's the fact that he puts HIMSELF in there. If he pointed out the mistake and just left it that it would be no big deal. Why shouldn't a caster be allowed to do that? Why shouldn't a caster be allowed to look at what a player is doing and nitpick some of their decisions? Because it will make loda feel or look bad? Shouldn't a professional be up for reasonable (and it was reasonable) criticism or analyzing of their play? When we know a player is inferior (AUI) we don't want to hear him saying he could have played it better. It's his word choice and his way of always putting in how he would have played it differently that makes it annoying and a separate thing all together from pointing out a bad play. An example: Loda really should split his illusions. - This is fine See, my team never picks me PL and it annoys me when other players play it wrong. - Not fine And an even a more minute example: X item can also be good on this hero. vs. I like to go X item on this hero. He has to take himself out of the cast.
Yup, i listened him from time to time and i got the same impression from him. His casting always irked me, as if he knew exactly of something was right or wrong when everything was obviously situational.
There is a line between 'criticizing' and 'personal opinion' and aui's way on putting stuffs are annoying at times.
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On May 28 2013 09:52 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:39 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 28 2013 09:33 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:
There's a difference between pointing out a mistake and essentially saying "wow, I would have played this so much better!" Essentially what Aui was doing that game. He gave his input on how he would do things differently that it just made him seem really condescending towards loda's play. Even his tone of voice sometimes. It wasn't comparable to anything else other casters have done.
Imagine watching a basketball game and you have a former pro saying "I would have done this this and this instead of what they did". It's essentially looking down on the players in the game right now and saying you're better than them.
It's the fact that he puts HIMSELF in there. If he pointed out the mistake and just left it that it would be no big deal. Why shouldn't a caster be allowed to do that? Why shouldn't a caster be allowed to look at what a player is doing and nitpick some of their decisions? Because it will make loda feel or look bad? Shouldn't a professional be up for reasonable (and it was reasonable) criticism or analyzing of their play? When we know a player is inferior (AUI) we don't want to hear him saying he could have played it better. It's his word choice and his way of always putting in how he would have played it differently that makes it annoying and a separate thing all together from pointing out a bad play. An example: Loda really should split his illusions. - This is fine See, my team never picks me PL and it annoys me when other players play it wrong. - Not fine And an even a more minute example: X item can also be good on this hero. vs. I like to go X item on this hero. He has to take himself out of the cast. Yup, i listened him from time to time and i got the same impression from him. His casting always irked me, as if he knew exactly of something was right or wrong when everything was obviously situational. There is a line between 'criticizing' and 'personal opinion' and aui's way on putting stuffs are annoying at times.
Why isn't a caster allowed to give their personal opinion on things, especially if they talk about why they would do things differently?
Obviously, its fine if you didn't like the cast. But saying he shouldn't be allowed to cast how he did (not referring to you on this one) is a separate matter.
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On May 28 2013 09:49 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:42 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is. You aren't a pro player though, which is my point. When another pro player attacks another pro players actions it is very personal, because they are implying they are better whether they want to or not. Loda obviously got upset about a player that is nowhere near as good as him saying on stream his item choice was bad. Egos egos eeegooos There are 3 options for a pro who feels someone else is saying they're better than they are with criticism 1. Accept the criticism, use it to improve, be even -better- than before 2. Ignore it/laugh it off, because you're better than them anyways 3. Turn it into an internet dickwaving contest Loda chose 3.
Aui expressed his opinion but when Loda expresses his it's a bad thing? What is the point of twitter if not to express yourself?
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On May 28 2013 09:50 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:42 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is. You aren't a pro player though, which is my point. When another pro player attacks another pro players actions it is very personal, because they are implying they are better whether they want to or not. Loda obviously got upset about a player that is nowhere near as good as him saying on stream his item choice was bad. He wasn't attacking him. He was analyzing his play, this includes negative aspects. I'm not sure why this needs to be about "attacking" loda. He wasn't. + Show Spoiler + Hell, Loda is being much more unprofessional about the "fallout" of this than Aui is. That says a lot to me.
Yup, criticizing a persons item choice half the game in a condescending manner is professional, but the person that takes issue with it is unprofessional. Good logic.
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On May 28 2013 09:56 MiX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:54 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:49 Shaella wrote:On May 28 2013 09:42 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is. You aren't a pro player though, which is my point. When another pro player attacks another pro players actions it is very personal, because they are implying they are better whether they want to or not. Loda obviously got upset about a player that is nowhere near as good as him saying on stream his item choice was bad. Egos egos eeegooos There are 3 options for a pro who feels someone else is saying they're better than they are with criticism 1. Accept the criticism, use it to improve, be even -better- than before 2. Ignore it/laugh it off, because you're better than them anyways 3. Turn it into an internet dickwaving contest Loda chose 3. Aui expressed his opinion but when Loda expresses his it's a bad thing? What is the point of twitter if not to express yourself? Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 09:50 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:42 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:35 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:34 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 09:16 Kupon3ss wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. They beat French byoc #3 at eswc 2012 and got second I know but that tournament was a complete joke so I didn't really count it. On May 28 2013 09:16 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 09:13 MiX wrote:On May 28 2013 08:58 Comeh wrote:On May 28 2013 08:57 teapoted wrote:
I've never had a professional sports broadcast with more criticism of the winner than the loser by a factor of 10. To be fair, both games were practically stomps, and you have to come up with things to talk about. This is one of the things to talk about. You make it seem like he was bashing on loda - he was mentioning a few things FOR ABOUT 20 SECONDS of things loda could have done better. You're only crushing one of the best teams in the world at a highly prestigious LAN event, so I am going to talk half the game about how your item choice could've been slightly better. - Aui_2000 Ya man totally cannot see how this might upset someone. Pretty sure if you were apart of the first western team to win a Chinese tournament you would be pretty ticked off if a player who's never placed in the money at a LAN event is bashing your item choice the whole game. To be honest, unless a caster was insulting my family, I wouldn't give a fuck what a caster said. I would be a professional, I wouldn't call someone out on twitter in an aggressive matter. particularly if no one was taking about it (except my GF), and the criticism barely existed for more than a few seconds of the game, and I didn't even hear it myself What I am trying to say is that criticism from a caster/player is different from a caster. When Aui says Loda made a mistake in getting item X, he is implying that he is a more knowledgeable and skilled player. This could've been avoided if Aui said something along the lines of "In my opinion, this item is a better choice" but he said it more along the lines of "Loda made a mistake, this item is clearly better than what Loda got." Not saying there was anything malicious about Aui's comments, he probably doesn't have much experience casting. I don't think it would have been a big if they didn't spend so much of the broadcast criticizing Loda's item choices. No, he looked at the game and said, "here's some mistakes loda is doing". It isn't saying he's a better player. I could look at any progame, say a player made a mistake and I'm not saying anything about my relative skill versus the other players. its me analyzing the current game at hand for what it is. You aren't a pro player though, which is my point. When another pro player attacks another pro players actions it is very personal, because they are implying they are better whether they want to or not. Loda obviously got upset about a player that is nowhere near as good as him saying on stream his item choice was bad. He wasn't attacking him. He was analyzing his play, this includes negative aspects. I'm not sure why this needs to be about "attacking" loda. He wasn't. + Show Spoiler + Hell, Loda is being much more unprofessional about the "fallout" of this than Aui is. That says a lot to me. Yup, criticizing a persons item choice half the game in a condescending manner is professional, but the person that takes issue with it is unprofessional. Good logic.
Essentially yes.
If you can't take criticism of your play from someone casting the game, I'm not sure what to say. Especially considering how often other casters (Dryskyll comes to mind) do it, and especially considering how minor it was (it wasn't a LOL HOLY SHIT YOU ARE BAD).
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United States19229 Posts
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Calling BS because its not in good alphabetical order.
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it was already posted before
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These have been posted before.
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EPT
