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On May 18 2013 07:35 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 07:28 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 18 2013 07:19 LaoShuAiDaMi wrote:On May 18 2013 07:15 5-s wrote:
There's plenty of pubstars in IXDL better than EG players in the NA scene. The problem isn't the availability of players, but the choices of which ones to pick up. This is the same team that kicked out Bulba and Universe and kept Maelk, lest you guys forget. Name 2 LOL. RTZ +Broodstar +EE if they wanted him before joining KP when he was a free agent +Clairvoyance +KZZ puck Are you being real right now? Broodstar is a complete troll and has no understanding of the game, KZZ can play 1 hero, Clairvoyance just yells a lot, but is otherwise just a worst Broodstar. The only legit person you named was EE, and thats only because of his understanding of the game, not his mechanical skills. Also Bulba left because he hated Demon's attitude, and Universe left because he wanted to focus on his studies. Neither left because EG kicked them.
If you think Broodstar isn't better than at least 2 of EG's players then you're not a very good judge of skill. He might not be able to jump in and perform to the same level in one game, but he has way more potential.
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5-s second best chen behind liquid fluff a has spoken
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Desolator best item for weaver as Ive tried saying a couple of times seems whoever plays him for rox.kis agrees.
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On May 18 2013 11:55 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 07:35 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 18 2013 07:28 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 18 2013 07:19 LaoShuAiDaMi wrote:On May 18 2013 07:15 5-s wrote:
There's plenty of pubstars in IXDL better than EG players in the NA scene. The problem isn't the availability of players, but the choices of which ones to pick up. This is the same team that kicked out Bulba and Universe and kept Maelk, lest you guys forget. Name 2 LOL. RTZ +Broodstar +EE if they wanted him before joining KP when he was a free agent +Clairvoyance +KZZ puck Are you being real right now? Broodstar is a complete troll and has no understanding of the game, KZZ can play 1 hero, Clairvoyance just yells a lot, but is otherwise just a worst Broodstar. The only legit person you named was EE, and thats only because of his understanding of the game, not his mechanical skills. Also Bulba left because he hated Demon's attitude, and Universe left because he wanted to focus on his studies. Neither left because EG kicked them. If you think Broodstar isn't better than at least 2 of EG's players then you're not a very good judge of skill. He might not be able to jump in and perform to the same level in one game, but he has way more potential.
give out names yo
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Linkens is really good for Weaver >.>
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Is there a reason select's stream suddenly has so many viewers? The last few times I've checked he has barely had any and today he has had over 1k?
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Probably because nobody is streaming atm
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On May 18 2013 11:55 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 07:35 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 18 2013 07:28 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 18 2013 07:19 LaoShuAiDaMi wrote:On May 18 2013 07:15 5-s wrote:
There's plenty of pubstars in IXDL better than EG players in the NA scene. The problem isn't the availability of players, but the choices of which ones to pick up. This is the same team that kicked out Bulba and Universe and kept Maelk, lest you guys forget. Name 2 LOL. RTZ +Broodstar +EE if they wanted him before joining KP when he was a free agent +Clairvoyance +KZZ puck Are you being real right now? Broodstar is a complete troll and has no understanding of the game, KZZ can play 1 hero, Clairvoyance just yells a lot, but is otherwise just a worst Broodstar. The only legit person you named was EE, and thats only because of his understanding of the game, not his mechanical skills. Also Bulba left because he hated Demon's attitude, and Universe left because he wanted to focus on his studies. Neither left because EG kicked them. If you think Broodstar isn't better than at least 2 of EG's players then you're not a very good judge of skill. He might not be able to jump in and perform to the same level in one game, but he has way more potential.
Potential = / = present level of skill.
There are plenty of 14 year old footballers in Europe that have the potential to be the next Messi, but you can't use that as an example to say they have more "skill" than even a tier 2 professional.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 18 2013 12:24 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 11:55 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:35 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 18 2013 07:28 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 18 2013 07:19 LaoShuAiDaMi wrote:On May 18 2013 07:15 5-s wrote:
There's plenty of pubstars in IXDL better than EG players in the NA scene. The problem isn't the availability of players, but the choices of which ones to pick up. This is the same team that kicked out Bulba and Universe and kept Maelk, lest you guys forget. Name 2 LOL. RTZ +Broodstar +EE if they wanted him before joining KP when he was a free agent +Clairvoyance +KZZ puck Are you being real right now? Broodstar is a complete troll and has no understanding of the game, KZZ can play 1 hero, Clairvoyance just yells a lot, but is otherwise just a worst Broodstar. The only legit person you named was EE, and thats only because of his understanding of the game, not his mechanical skills. Also Bulba left because he hated Demon's attitude, and Universe left because he wanted to focus on his studies. Neither left because EG kicked them. If you think Broodstar isn't better than at least 2 of EG's players then you're not a very good judge of skill. He might not be able to jump in and perform to the same level in one game, but he has way more potential. Potential = / = present level of skill. There are plenty of 14 year old footballers in Europe that have the potential to be the next Messi, but you can't use that as an example to say they have more "skill" than even a tier 2 professional.
I think the idea is that if EG had picked up that kind of high potential talent at the time of their post-TI2 roster changes, their potential would have long since come to fruition by now.
On the topic of Linken's Weaver--I don't think I've ever heard an adequate response to the question of "what does Weaver do with a Perseverance worth of HP/mana regen?"
Every other Linken's user has high enough mana demand to really require the Void Stone/Perseverance (Morphling, Medusa), and sacrifices their midgame presence to use the item. You don't see Linken's on other heroes that don't use that regen unless they're buying it as a specific counter-item to spells like Doom or Primal Roar. The buildup sucks, and roughly 40% of the item's gold cost is spent on regen. Unless you use that regen or there's a game-endingly powerful spell that Linken's will block, the active doesn't justify the 2k gold worth of regen you're buying.
Weaver likewise sacrifices his midgame to get Linkens, except 1) he doesn't have the lategame power of a Morphling or Medusa, and 2) the regen goes nowhere because his mana demand is nowhere near that of those heroes either.
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On May 18 2013 12:42 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 12:24 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 18 2013 11:55 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:35 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 18 2013 07:28 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 18 2013 07:19 LaoShuAiDaMi wrote:On May 18 2013 07:15 5-s wrote:
There's plenty of pubstars in IXDL better than EG players in the NA scene. The problem isn't the availability of players, but the choices of which ones to pick up. This is the same team that kicked out Bulba and Universe and kept Maelk, lest you guys forget. Name 2 LOL. RTZ +Broodstar +EE if they wanted him before joining KP when he was a free agent +Clairvoyance +KZZ puck Are you being real right now? Broodstar is a complete troll and has no understanding of the game, KZZ can play 1 hero, Clairvoyance just yells a lot, but is otherwise just a worst Broodstar. The only legit person you named was EE, and thats only because of his understanding of the game, not his mechanical skills. Also Bulba left because he hated Demon's attitude, and Universe left because he wanted to focus on his studies. Neither left because EG kicked them. If you think Broodstar isn't better than at least 2 of EG's players then you're not a very good judge of skill. He might not be able to jump in and perform to the same level in one game, but he has way more potential. Potential = / = present level of skill. There are plenty of 14 year old footballers in Europe that have the potential to be the next Messi, but you can't use that as an example to say they have more "skill" than even a tier 2 professional. I think the idea is that if EG had picked up that kind of high potential talent at the time of their post-TI2 roster changes, their potential would have long since come to fruition by now. On the topic of Linken's Weaver--I don't think I've ever heard an adequate response to the question of "what does Weaver do with a Perseverance worth of HP/mana regen?" Every other Linken's user has high enough mana demand to really require the Void Stone/Perseverance (Morphling, Medusa), and sacrifices their midgame presence to use the item. You don't see Linken's on other heroes that don't use that regen unless they're buying it as a specific counter-item to spells like Doom or Primal Roar. The buildup sucks, and roughly 40% of the item's gold cost is spent on regen. Unless you use that regen or there's a game-endingly powerful spell that Linken's will block, the active doesn't justify the 2k gold worth of regen you're buying. Weaver likewise sacrifices his midgame to get Linkens, except 1) he doesn't have the lategame power of a Morphling or Medusa, and 2) the regen goes nowhere because his mana demand is nowhere near that of those heroes either.
However you forget the fact that Weaver being a hit & run based hero, only stuns will stop him. With a Linken, he basically becomes invincible and pretty impossible to stop easily.
With those heroes you spoke of, yes they do have a drawback of sacrifices their midgame presence. However this is not the case with a weaver. With Swarm/Shukuchi & Germinate, Weaver still retains his midgame presence alongside with the fact he is nearly impossible to stop when he has a Linken makes Linken one of the best defensive items for Weaver
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On May 18 2013 12:24 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 11:55 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:35 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 18 2013 07:28 5-s wrote:On May 18 2013 07:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 18 2013 07:19 LaoShuAiDaMi wrote:On May 18 2013 07:15 5-s wrote:
There's plenty of pubstars in IXDL better than EG players in the NA scene. The problem isn't the availability of players, but the choices of which ones to pick up. This is the same team that kicked out Bulba and Universe and kept Maelk, lest you guys forget. Name 2 LOL. RTZ +Broodstar +EE if they wanted him before joining KP when he was a free agent +Clairvoyance +KZZ puck Are you being real right now? Broodstar is a complete troll and has no understanding of the game, KZZ can play 1 hero, Clairvoyance just yells a lot, but is otherwise just a worst Broodstar. The only legit person you named was EE, and thats only because of his understanding of the game, not his mechanical skills. Also Bulba left because he hated Demon's attitude, and Universe left because he wanted to focus on his studies. Neither left because EG kicked them. If you think Broodstar isn't better than at least 2 of EG's players then you're not a very good judge of skill. He might not be able to jump in and perform to the same level in one game, but he has way more potential. Potential = / = present level of skill. There are plenty of 14 year old footballers in Europe that have the potential to be the next Messi, but you can't use that as an example to say they have more "skill" than even a tier 2 professional.
A bad comparison, since a mix of high-level pubs can easily beat a mix of tier 2 pros in Dota 2. The difference comes from familiarity and teamwork, which takes some time, but the inherent skill level takes a lot longer to develop (at least at the levels that Western teams compete at.)
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United States47024 Posts
On May 18 2013 12:57 Mithhaike wrote:
With those heroes you spoke of, yes they do have a drawback of sacrifices their midgame presence. However this is not the case with a weaver. With Swarm/Shukuchi & Germinate, Weaver still retains his midgame presence alongside with the fact he is nearly impossible to stop when he has a Linken makes Linken one of the best defensive items for Weaver
"Midgame presence" is not the point where you have a 5k gold major item. That's the point where hard carries are already assembling their 2nd major item. "Midgame presence" starts much earlier than that, and a 3k gold hole after the point where you have an Ultimate Orb (Perseverance + Recipe gives virtually no combat stats) severely weakens that.
The gold timing of "midgame" even on safe lane carries is in the range of 2-4k gold items (Drums, Armlet, or BKB), and less on a hero that's frequently mid or hard lane. This timing is awful for Linkens because its only components that cost less than 2k are pure regen items. You bank 2.1k, buy an Ultimate Orb, and then have 3k gold worth of no-combat-stats to buy before you finish Linken's.
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I still like Radiance weaver though, so clearly i'm an anomaly
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United States47024 Posts
On May 18 2013 13:01 Shaella wrote:
I still like Radiance weaver though, so clearly i'm an anomaly
Radiance is still actually fine on Weaver if you can save all the way to one, it just has a buildup issue.
Linken's has a buildup issue AND is buying bad stats. It's only redeeming factor is the spell block, and the spell block isn't good enough to save the item on a hero that doesn't use the regen, else we'd be seeing Linken's on a lot more heroes in the first place.
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Just got some invites to Steam Trading Card Beta, are they going to be worth much?
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On May 18 2013 13:07 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 13:01 Shaella wrote:
I still like Radiance weaver though, so clearly i'm an anomaly Radiance is still actually fine on Weaver if you can save all the way to one, it just has a buildup issue. Linken's has a buildup issue AND is buying bad stats. It's only redeeming factor is the spell block, and the spell block isn't good enough to save the item on a hero that doesn't use the regen, else we'd be seeing Linken's on a lot more heroes in the first place.
I personally value the Spell Block on Weaver just because of how weaver's played. Its the only hero that I feel can make use of the spell block from Linken most effectively.
Your right about the poor build up, I totally agree, but I think that the power of Swarm/Germinate/Shukuchi should be able to tide over that build up period easily. Swarm is a very underrated skill that reduces enemy armor significantly if they cannot find an opening to remove the worms on them, thats what I mean by mid-game presence.
Your definition of midgame is different from mine. For me, mid game is by game time 6mins-25mins or so. Usually this period is the time where the first big item is secured depending on how well they farmed etc. Weaver with a Linken by the 25mins is no different from another with a BKB at the 25mins. Its still 1 big item...however the linken provides so much more for weaver imo.
About the regen, with a linken there's no reason ever for the weaver to go back to base even if/when the weaver is spamming shukuchi. He wont run out of mana, thus can continue pushing/farming. For me, i find that a weaver after the linken, even just getting a cheap Crystalis gains huge boost in DPS(swarm/germinate)
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>crystalis as you damage item
>not making desolator on that build
uugh
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if you are gonna go deso build on weaver (assuming it's legit), would you level germinate at all?
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Because they work together
Deso weaver is SO legit
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United States47024 Posts
On May 18 2013 13:19 Mithhaike wrote:
Your definition of midgame is different from mine. For me, mid game is by game time 6mins-25mins or so. Usually this period is the time where the first big item is secured depending on how well they farmed etc. Weaver with a Linken by the 25mins is no different from another with a BKB at the 25mins. Its still 1 big item...however the linken provides so much more for weaver imo.
I don't know why you're comparing a 3900 gold item to a 5175 gold item without at least trying to somehow fill that 1300 gold difference with other items--not to mention that the build that goes through items with better buildup is likely to have an advantage at 25 minutes and should have MORE than the build that naked farmed to 25 minutes off of towers and kills.
On May 18 2013 13:22 Shaella wrote:
>crystalis as you damage item
>not making desolator on that build
uugh
Crystalys is ok as a damage item choice. It has a weaker immediate timing than Desolator, but Desolator drops off harder in effectiveness when enemy carries hit the point of having 25-30 armor (lategame Agi carries and non-Agi carries with AC) while Crystalys builds into Buriza.
It depends a lot on the game.
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EPT
